Sorcerer Changes Brainstorming

[HaoZhao]

I have one major grievance with madness right now. Energy management. In long fights, a madness sorcerer will simply run out of force power. If you're in a PUG match (which likely makes up 99% of all war zones played), then you have to hope that there's a healer around and that this healer will save you if you use consumption three times in a row. It's a huge weakness in what is otherwise a very fun class. Here's my suggested changes:

 

1) Make it so Wrath also causes your next Crushing Darkness or Lightning Strike to be free of force cost

 

2) Make it so periodical damage gives you a stack of X. When you have 50 stacks of X, you can use consumption once without any negative drawbacks.

[Dmiddiucw]

Eric thank you for this opportunity to have some good honest dialogue,

 

Force Sprint needs to remove all movement impairing-effects and grants immunity to all movement-impairing effects for the duration.

 

Overload should root up to X targets in its cone of fire and this should not be broken upon direct damage for 4 -6 seconds.

 

Force Barrier this was a good idea but with the level of focusing going on towards sorcs it doesn't do the job. we need something that will allow us to cast/move and reduces incoming damage. So I would like to see the force barrier be changed to at the very least allow us to move and cast. I would find it acceptable to reduce the length from 10 seconds to 6 this might at least give us time to provide something meaningful to the pvp team.

 

Lightning tree

 

This tree has great burst but is too reliant on long cast times (Thundering blast) there should be either a way of reducing the cast time or adding a proc that when active allows for an instant TB. TB should also have its damage improved it is just not on the same par as other classes big hitters. I regularly get smashed in pvp for 8-9 k I get blown up by grenades from commandos in the region of 8-9k ravages for 8+ k by marauders the list goes on...... and that is in nearly full 67 gear. Best I can do with TB is 7.5k ish at a push. Most of the biggest hits I get are around that at the end of pvp match but if you look at other classes their biggest hits are much bigger !

 

Currently most melee classes have far more tools for gap closers than Sorcs do. We therefore need better ways of getting away/ slowing rooting targets. I would even consider having overload not break on damage this at least would give us a chance to do damage and keep the enemy at bay. So I guess removing the breaks on direct damage for overload would be a step in the right direction. We would still be interrupted etc but it would allow us to get away and do some damage.

 

I also find it strange that after specking into the Lightning tree I still get a cool down on Force lightning just increase the force cost and reduce the cool down that would help hugely with our damage.

 

I appreciate that this sounds like a lot but all I am asking for is more crowd control (which we should have being a weak armour caster) and a bit more utility on our defensive cool down. If you also couple that with a little more damage on TB and less cool down on Force Lightning it would make for a much better experience.

 

I play pvp a lot on my sorc (Lightning)and assassin(Deception) and have played since Beta, I do more damage on my sorc (due to aoe and dots etc) but I enjoy much more the abilities and cool downs of the assassin in pvp. Most of the time in arenas I get focused down fast and I am extremely difficult for a healer to keep up so I feel like a bit of a liability whereas with other classes (assassin) I play I don't get that feeling. I love this game and I love the Sorc / Sin classes but I just get so tired of being the first target everyone goes for. People will say learn to play but if your playing against a team with half a brain once they have spotted you the experience changes from being one of contributing to the team to being a total liability. Many a match I get 2 Marauders jump straight to me hitting me with instant cast abilities, barrier goes up they waste time hitting it manage to get away and then straight away they both jump on me and it goes on being a cat and mouse game for the Lightening sorc. Basically I just want to see some kind of improvement in the quality of life for Sorcerers.

 

Eric, if your reading this I am more than happy to discuss further but please, please don't let us down! No matter what happens I will continue to play a Sorc/Sin even if I have to go in with just a wooden stick! Just give us back our dignity (Brave heart music playing in the background)

[campbellsoup]

I think one really nice improvement to sorcs would be part of what AdrianDmitruk said to change some moves to not being on the GCD. If there was a place in the lightning and madness tree which changed your Unnatural Preservation, Static Barrier and/or cleanse to be instant, it would really help out sorcs in both PVE and PVP.

 

 

The main problems with Lightning

• Pushback - currently lightning sorcs in PVE receive massive pushback dps loss from AoE damage, or in a fight where one of the bosses/adds has no aggro table and is attacking the player.
  
• Survivability - Currenty sorcs also have the worst survivability. Yes they can H2F, and LoS but as the community has shown, they do not see this as a solution for a class that already takes the most damage in game due to light armor. Madness has Defensive specs and self heals from DoTs but still isn't perfect.
  
• Must use a GCD to survive - outside of the above problems, the abilities we do have require a GCD providing a DPS loss, and while force barrier is extremely powerful, it also results in a DPS loss (as I believe it should)
  

 

Possible Solution - Eliminating the GCD on self use heals

• Activating static barrier may increase your DPS when fighting anomolies in TFB, or during lightning adds on Draxus, but its effectiveness is greatly reduced by the fact that you have to waste a GCD to use it. The only time it is desirable to use is when you will be experiencing more than 1.5s total knockback from adds. Snipers have a higher reduced knockback from cover, and we have almost no instants.
  
• If sorcs are intended to be healing themselves during operations and in PVP, it is again a DpS loss for them to heal themselves with their self heal. Make us want to do that. If I had Static Barrier and Unnatural Preservation as abilities not on the GCD while DPSing it wouldn't break corruption, but make other trees have decent survivability.
  
• I also included our cleanse because it seems like it would fit in with the others, and benefit PVP players. We already have a cleanse, and it brings raid utility that snipers don't quite have since we can cleanse others giving us and mercs one advantage. However, it appears most DoTs in the new operations come out at specific times, and agents can cleanse every other one with evasion (while not using a GCD) and assassins can do the same with force shroud. It would again greatly boost our viability in Raids.
  
• Make the lack of GCD ONLY take effect while used on ourselves. If we could bubble every player in the raid on no GCD, it would allow us to provide way too much raid utility.
  

 

While this may make our survivability too high, even just making Static Barrier avoid the GCD with a tallent in the top of lightning would be a welcomed change. Pushback is probably the most frustrating part of DPSing in operations and is extremely difficult to judge when it is useful to use your static barrier and when it will end up not gaining anything from wasting a GCD. Even worse is when you miss a Thundering blast from fitting in before affliction went away.

[DarkIntelligence]

As a lightning sorcerer since early release, I would like to finally see something done with Thundering Blast. It is the bread and butter of the spec and it feels underwhelming, both in the fact that it has such a long cast time and in how little damage it does compared to simular abilities of other dps specs. In my opinion it either needs to be made an instant cast (via a new mechanic such as a certain number of stacks recieved for casting Lightning Strike) or its damage increased substantially (which of course can be balanced by something such as a longer cooldown), or even a combination of the two. I think any of those can be implemented fairly easily and not hinder class balance, while letting lightning sorcerers feel more powerful (and useful).

 

I would also like seeing something done about making a lightning-heavy hybrid build (one relying on instant Wrath proc Lightning Strikes to proc an instant Chain Lightning in turn, essentially making that combo a substitute for Thundering Blast) but as it is this spec relies too heavily on crit (because if that combo doesn't crit frequently the overall dps this build puts out is laughable compared to the two full builds) and crit is currently a useless stat because of its horrendous diminishing return values. Making this a viable build will require either fixing the DR values of crit rating to something more tolerable or adding a mechanic that raises the crit chance of the above mentioned chain reaction combo (though not make it a 100% like Thundering Blast because that, of course, would be overpowered). This one will be more difficult to implement and perhaps harder to balance but, at least in my opinion, worth doing as this is a really fun build allowing for more burst and but also requiring more thoughtful tactical desicisons. Not to mention that it gives a much welcomed reprieve from the often tedious full lighting or full madness rotation. Having hybrid builds be viable also allows for greater customization and if you guys have learned anything from running this game so far it is that the community loves customization (and is willing to $pay$ for it)!

 

So be smart and bank on it, granted it will take more time and effort than putting out a new cartel pack, but I for one think it's a about time you guys switch gears a bit and focus more on things like this.

 

Here is to hoping the fact that you created this thread is a step in that direction!

[jenlen]

 

--Force Management. Someone already stated this that you guys think it's fine. It's not. Madness sorcs are out of force in long fights while other dps do not have to worry about this issue. To throw GCD's into an ability that kills us for miniscule force feedback is not only dangerous in High end raids, but a loss of dps. To counter this, the force regen talents in the Madness tree either need to be boosted or there should be an ability that acts like adrenaline probe // vent heat with force regen. (this also goes well with helping healing force managment in high damage/output needing fights)

 

 

1000 times THIS! Force Managment in the Madness tree needs some love.

[Vildiil]

Laforets post is basically the only post you need to read regarding healing sorcs (please read it Bioware). It seriously made me feel like resubbing to wow to play my disc priest again.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Laforets post is basically the only post you need to read regarding healing sorcs (please read it Bioware). It seriously made me feel like resubbing to wow to play my disc priest again.

 

Won't argue with Laforet...so clicky for Bioware's easy reference

[verfallen]

From a mostly PvE point of view:

 

 

Utility:

 

Add some unique raid advantage to bringing a dps sorc. We currently field nothing other than damage and very poor offheals a lot of classes can do better.

 

Alternatively, current game mechanic means offhealing is severly harming dps, which can lead to it only really delaying the inevitable.

 

 

General

-put static barrier off the GCD when used on yourself

-force speed must break roots/snares baseline

-Cleanse should clear physical effects baseline to be on line with other heal able classes.

-Cloud mind now increases defenses or reduce incoming damage for a significant ammount for 6 seconds.

-Reduce DI's baseline cast time to 2,5 seconds, reduce the healing it does as well, and the talent in corruption to reduce cast now increase healing dealt. Roughly make it less painful for dps to cast that thing.

 

 

 

Lightning :

 

-Remove TBs cast time. It will make it a 1,5 sec GCD move that can be used on the move.

-add Crushing Darkness and possibly Force Storm pushback protection. CD is to be hard casted on cooldown, and in high aoe damage phases, it takes 3-4 sec to get off.

 

 

Madness:

-add a proc that makes the next consumption used to not degenerate regen and cast out of the GGD.

 

 

Corruption:

 

-add a talent that makes Dark Heal an automatic critical heal on target below 30% health, and increase its critical heal %.

-rework Dark Bending:

*+5% critical chance to innervate to compensate 2,0 lower crit rating value.

*Next DI also now immune to interrupt/Push back.

-Remove consumption GCD (high in tree)

 

 

 

Thats my brainstorm for tonight. Note its all ideas, not a this should all be changed that way post.

[DneTrain]

Won't argue with Laforet...so clicky for Bioware's easy reference

 

This ^

[warstory]

ok i am thinking about the history of lighting and tk...

 

1.aoe stun on force lift was nerfed because it was instant. it is not longer posible to get a instant force lift whirlwind. so i say bring it back.(reason we need escape tools)

 

2. AOE knockback root was nerf because of hybrid specs the hybrid sage/sorc specs are basically dead. so bring it back.

 

3. force armor was nerfed because in 8 vs 8 a person could run around and the avg group had no focus target. now that we are in arenas we need that armor back.

 

4. stun bubble was nerfed on group and ourselves, overkill, we clearly need that skill to kite.

 

all these nerfs without foresight to the growing game, fine. The nerfs were done to please the community at the time. now it is realized that the spec is completely crippled.

 

start by returning the above u have enough data to make the above changes.

 

if the above is not viable options then we need dmg reduction, crowd control, and good escape tools or reposition tools.

 

you have no choice but to balance the cast vs instant game while keeping combat still fast paced. remember make them pay for coming at us, right? switchable not zergable think about it!!!!!!

[BoboHut]

I've been playing madness since the beginning because I've always loved how fluid of a spec it is. I've played everything else since then and am probably with many people where I find myself choosing other alts to run ops with to provide more to the team. I hate that.

 

That being said, I guess one suggestion I would make is on Deathmark because it just stands out as the most random part of our dps that we can kind of try to control but not really. My suggestion is to give it a buff and make it only affect affliction and/or creeping terror. Since it would be affected by less dots and only your own, knock down the number of ticks it affects from 15 back down to 10 (maybe even less).

 

DEATHMARK: Death Field places a deathmark on affected targets, increasing the amount of damage the targets suffer from your next 10 ticks of your own affliction and/or creeping terror abilities by 50%. Lasts 30 secs.

 

The point of this would be to get rid of some of the reason people don't like sorcs in raids due to deathmark being used up by other peoples dots and it being impossible to keep CD from using deathmark charges and it would almost give dots a little more burst in pvp. I don't know if 50% would be the best balance through calculations, but you get my point and I'm sure you could find an accurate buff for it.

Edited October 29, 2013 by BoboHut

[Hockaday]

• Making Wrath proc stack. up to three times. The issue is that with the gcd and other factors, we can go many many casts of force lightning with out a proc, pr sometimes get a proc right at the end of force lightning, then two more procs (that are wasted) durning the GCD while force lightning is ticking.
   
   
  
• Instead of making wrath proc stack 3 times, make CD and Lightning strike not respect the GCD, so we may interupt our force lightning right away. Though, the 3 stack wrath proc is a better idea imho.
   
   
  
• Replace the defense increase in madness tree, with a 3% (minimum) accuracy buff. As that is a huge loss in dps for us. That we need so many accuracy enhancements to get the required amount.
   
   
  
• Give us some form of utility. Perhaps in the form of our cure being inline with the healer recast. This would be handy for fights like Nefra. Or give us a form of battle meditation. It could be a raid wide buff depending what skill tree you were in. Lightning could make the raid group do kinetic(?) damage with each attack while it is active. Madness could make the raid's attacks apply a dot. Perhaps with some form of heal attached to it. The healing tree could be a raid wide bubble, or heal proc like kolto shell.
   
   
  
• Or, none of the above and just increase damage done from dots etc. Maybe increase the alacrity?
  

Edited October 29, 2013 by Hockaday

[MusicRider]

General

• Egress force speed baseline and changed to provide complete cc immunity.
  
• Some form of group utility, tied on bubble which should be on a separate gcd, or some new ability.
  

 

Seer/Corruption

• See laforet's post. Has some nice points.
  
• Health sac to gain force is counter productive for arenas in particular.
  
• Problem with healing tree lies IMO to the OP of ops healers who can heal on the move with their so many instants, can heal while cced with their so many hots, and with the current state have better tools for survivability.
  

 

Telekinetics/Lightning

• Biggest problem is that the spec is fairly easy to shutdown in arenas. So many ideas from the community on this. a) Cast on the move for a period of time. b) An ability or stacks tied to other abilities that proc instant casts. c) Passive stackable counters that increase damage of turbu/blast if it gets interrupted or when taking damage.
  

 

 

Balance/Madness

Although these are not the droids you are looking for, there are a couple of key issues with this spec.

• Weaken mind/affliction should not break mezzes.
  
• Instant lift//ww is needed.
  
• Some form of execute, like dots increased damage below 30% health.
  
• Force management issues that can be solved in many ways, eg tkt/fl returns more force, dots return force when crit, wm/aff returns its cost iif it runs its full duration, etc.
  

 

Some of these changes are dead easy to implement, like move egress in tier 1 and the healing kb up to its place; instant lift/ww, and if there is a well placed hesitation as it is common to shadows just add a further reduction into one of the unique skills in the common tree, eg tk balance/madness.

[Arilou_skiff]

Oh yeah, I'd love ti if Lightning Barrage was moved downwards It fees incredibly odd that the skill that buffs Madness Bread and Butter isn't availible to Madness sorcs... Although this is probably crazy talk

[VonFoxFire]

I think Sorcerers really need to be able to summon a pet/pets to provide a bit of a meat shield. It makes sense lore wise plus it's almost a necessity given they have the weakest armor in the game , are easily focused down and don't do enough damage to compete 1 on 1 with anyone. If they could summon a Tuk’ata or maybe a juvenile Rancor then sorcerers could dance around the pet and possibly actually win some matches without having to rely on other players to save their rears from a smack down. Edited October 29, 2013 by VonFoxFire

[judgeender]

This is going to be focused primarily on PvE dps Sages/Sorcs as my main focus in the game is progression Ops groups. I do Operations on both a Sage and Sorc on The Shadowlands. I have also started gearing up an alt sniper and gunslinger in light of the deficiencies Sages/Sorcs have in endgame PvE compared to other classes. The primary issue right now is that there is very little reason to bring a Sage/Sorc as a dps over certain other classes. To fix this Sages/Sorcs need their dps adjusted to be competitive and some form of defensive cooldown that does not require them to stop performing their role (doing damage).

 

When choosing classes for an operation, assuming equal gear and skill, 3 main things are considered: (i) the DPS the class can put out, (ii) the survivability of the class, and (iii) the utility that class brings. As it currently stands, discussed in great depth in numerous other threads, Sages/Sorcs are significantly behind other classes, such as gunslinger/sniper and sentinel/marauder in terms of the actual damage they can put out. Simply put, if enrage timers (whether hard enrages or soft-enrages) continue to exist, the highest dps classes will be preferred. Bringing a class that cannot compete on damage simply hurts the group’s chance of success.

 

Sages/Sorcs also wear light armor (resulting in the lowest base damage reduction) and their only true defensive cooldown, Force Barrier, basically requires them to do nothing for the time it is active, resulting in their doing even less damage (and generally being unable to help the operation group). With respect to utility, Sages/Sorcs have Rescue (which is not used in many fights) and can in theory throw out heals. However, in light of the very tight dps checks in recent Nightmare content (which will likely also exist in upcoming Nightmare content), stopping dps to cast heals (using precious seconds and resources) is not really viable. Compare that utility to the utility brought by other classes, for example Snipers bring Shatter Shot and Ballistic Shield (along with cover pulse and leg shot which were very useful on Nightmare Styrak) and it seems like Sages/Sorcs offer a bit less utility on top of their already lower DPS and survivability. However, this is probably less of an urgent issue that needs to be resolved.

 

In order for Sages/Sorcs to be competitive for dps slots in operations, their damage needs to be increased to be on par with that of other classes. This isn’t just about Sages/Sorcs. The Devs should go back and adjust all classes to bring them in line with each other on a damage level. This would require adjusting the amount of damage certain abilities do.

 

With respect to survivability, as discussed in numerous other threads, many operation fights have either significant operation-wide damage going out to the entire group for periods of time or random operation members taking significant damage. Sages/Sorcs are the only class that lack a true defensive cooldown to help them survive and reduce the healing load. Sages/Sorcs can only (i) force barrier and do nothing or (ii) stop doing their job, spend resources and try to heal (which is often not very effective with the pushback suffered on heals for the small amount they heal for). Sages/Sorcs need an off the global survival cooldown. It could be something fairly simple: something along the lines of 45 second cooldown, for 6 seconds take 40% less damage. Alternatively to make it a little more unique: 45 second cooldown, for 6 seconds take 20% less damage and the sage/sorc is healed for an amount equal to the damage done during the 6 seconds (or healed for 5% of their health every second for 6 seconds).

 

Another option would be to implement a “healer stance” and a “dps stance.” For the “dps stance” it might do something along the lines of (i) X% more damage done, (ii) take 5% less damage, (iii) Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation is off the cooldown, (iv) heals cast on others do X% less healing.

 

The biggest problems facing dps Sages/Sorcs in operations right now is that they lag behind other classes on dps and they lack the survivability that other classes have. They don’t bring enough utility to an operation to make up for those deficiencies. As a result, the question is why bring a Sage/Sorc when you can simply bring another class (such as a Sniper/Gunslinger). Unless their dps and survivability is fixed before new nightmare content is released, that question may result in even fewer Sages/Sorcs in progression content.

[EvilTazz]

Although I can't comment on the PVE side of things due to mostly being a PVPer, I can at least suggest some changes that would help Sorcs in PVP and they might be somewhat beneficial to PVE as well. All number's are based on Full Conqueror Augmented gear. All Changes to skills are meant to be additional not replacements.

 

Baseline

 

- Instant Whirlwind.

- 360 Degree Overload. Optional: Electric Binding's is baseline.

- Fadeout Force Speed.

- Shock's force cost reduced to 30.

- Consumption is removed from the GCD.

Optional: Electrocute's range has been increased to 30m.

 

New Ability: Enervate: (Channeled: 3 Seconds, 0 Force, 24/30s CD)

Deals 4863 internal damage to the target over the duration of the effect. (Also restores 50% of the damage as health. Or Also restores 20 force per tick, 80 force total.

 

Lightning - PVP

 

- Chain Lightning and Thundering Blast's base damage is increased by 10%.

- Thundering Blast's activation time has been reduced to 1 second. Or Thundering Blast cannot be interrupted.

- Polarity Shift: Polarity Shift now makes all Lightning Strikes used instant for the duration.

 

Corruption - PVP

 

- Force Suffusion has been removed. Replace it with the old 5/10% AOE Damage/Healing buff.

- Conspiring Force and Shapeless Spirit have now swapped places in the respective Skill Trees.

- Corrupted Barrier now makes Static Barrier heal team mates for 0.5/1% of their total health every second for as long as they last. When Static Barrier ends it grants 10% Damage reduction for 5 seconds.

- Revivification: Players who move out of the targeted area are granted Death's Favor healing for 3169 (half the healing of my revivification) over 6 seconds.

- Polarity Shift: Polarity Shift now reduces the activation time of Dark Infusion to 1.5 seconds.

- Force Surge: At 3 stacks the next Innervate cannot be interrupted, each tick uses 1 stack.

 

I know this wasn't asked for and while the Devour change is nice, more needs to be done so here are my Madness changes.

 

Madness - PVP

 

- Death Field's base damage has been increased by 5%.

- Creeping Terror's base damage has been increased by 10%

- Creeping Terror: Paralyzes the target in fear, immobilizing it for 3 seconds and dealing 4906 internal damage over 18 seconds. (Damage calculated with 10% increase.)

- Parasitism: Increases the duration of affliction by 1.5/3 seconds.

- Lingering Nightmares: Reduces the cooldown of Crushing Darkness by 1.5/3 seconds.

- Shapeless Spirit and Conspiring Force have now swapped places in the respective skill trees.

 

So those are my changes, hope you like them and thanks for reading.

[Dedrayge]

You know, I can see sorcerers having life leech abilities...So really, not a bad idea.

[Denti]

Lightning Spec Sorc

 

I would love for there to be an addition to one of the top tier talent skills that increases the range of Affliction and Crushing Darkness to that of our other abilities. Since these 2 casts have to be part of our rotation and and other talents are built upon their procs, it makes no since that we cannot utilize the range of our other abilities because these 2 dots require us to be at a closer range..

Edited October 29, 2013 by Denti
not enough information

[StarveTheEgo]

The self heal we get could be off cool down.

Minor but useful

[psybernetic]

I've played Lightning by choice for over 90% of my /played. Only recently have I switched over to Madness for the sole purpose of being viable in solo arenas. Lightning is terrible for solo arenas, and considering I consistently have performed excellently in regs as Lightning, it's the spec, not the player in this case.

 

Lightning needs several changes, and although some have been mentioned here, I'm going to relist them anyway.

 

1) Baseline Fadeout or a Blink (preferably blink). Roots are the number one problem in this game for sorcs because there are SO MANY already in existence. Root on charge, root on Carnage Ravage, soon to be root on Vengeance Ravage, Leg Shot, and more that I can't think of because I don't play the other melee classes enough to really have attained higher skills in them. We as sorcs spend so much time rooted in place while someone takes out a glowbat, flame thrower or knife and tears into us while all we can do is hope our lame bubble isn't on debuff or that barrier isn't on cd. Rooted Lightning vs 1 melee = effectively removed from combat sorc.

 

Baseline Fadeout should be for all specs, but Lightning should receive the blink simply because we are the most reliant on creating space between ourselves and our opponents. We seem to be desired to have a similar role as a Frost mage in WoW, with proc and debuff based nukes, but we have none of the mobility or survivability of that particular spec and class. Instead, we're a cloth turret, and that honestly makes no sense given our inability to quickly CC other players, create space or outright protect ourselves.

 

2) Mobility. Lightning is the least mobile spec after snipers and has relatively little to show for it. Practically all of our damage has a cast time, which means we're either stuck in place and a prime target for melee/sniper or suffering intense pushback, even with the 70% reduction. As a cloth non-facetanking class, this situation tends to result in about 3-7 gcds of life in an arena. While I can appreciate the concept of a turret class, a cloth turret makes no sense whatsoever. Blink/Fadeout fall into this category, kind of, but those are more defensively minded. Our 36 point talent has a 2 second cast time on it. Our primary spammable ability has a 1.5 second cast on it. I propose a talent high in the Lightning tree to remove the cast time on both. In fact, let's roll that into TB.

 

Thundering Blast

Activation: Instant

 

Force: 50

Cooldown 11s

Range: 30m

 

Sends a thundering blastwave at a target that deals 2046 - 2587 internal damage. Thundering Blast automatically critically hits targets affected by your Affliction. Additionally reduces the cast time of Lightning Strike by 1.5s.

 

I increased the CD on TB to reflect the decrease in its cast time. Force cost could also afford to be increased to compensate for the instant cast speed. Alternatively, make Lightning Strike a mobile cast via a high-tier Lightning talent if instant would be considered too strong.

 

3) Proc-reliance. Currently our maximum damage potential is completely reliant on procs. The only ability this truly impacts in a debilitating way is Thundering Blast. In an effort to get away from RNG dependence, rolling the mean proc damage into TB and eliminating the proc altogether would go along way toward a more consistent output with the spec. Currently everything in Lightning has a chance to proc something. LS and CL procs for damage increase buff. Affliction procs Lightning Barrage. CD has a chance to tick twice, TB and LS have a chance to proc free CL and TB, LS and CL have a chance to deal extra raw damage. Factor in the PvP relics are currently all proc-based, and you have an absurd reliance on friendly RNG when a flat increase is significantly better.

 

4) 360 Overload. As a sorc, this change confused the hell out of me. Simply revert it so that sins still have to be facing their arc but sorcs do not. Will it piss off melee? Yes. That's the point. Melee has it way too easy in this game. Also, potentially have it ignore resolve and knock people back for a talent.

 

5) Light armor rating. Every class in light armor is currently extremely squishy. Increase the value and reduce the buffs to the value that sin tanks get accordingly, if that proves to be an issue.

 

6) Force Barrier. This ability is crap as it stands. Give us 10 seconds of immunity like a paladin, only increase our cast times or reduce the effectiveness of our spells for the duration. Currently all it does is prolong the inevitable, especially if you have that one ******e who stands around waiting for it to end so he can lolsmash.

 

Unnatural Preservation. Take this ability off the GCD!

 

I've run dry on ideas for the moment.

[skarlson]

If we are going to turret then give us the ability to do so. Why must we work extremely hard to stay at range just so we can get off a cast or two while pretty much anyone can close or bring us to them. You have continually nerfed our ability to control others while giving the most powerful classes tons of ways to control us. Even snipers are using abilities such as their ridiculous slow that is so high it might as well be a root to keep us from using los against them and you cannot out burst a sniper as a sorc. You will be half dead before your first TB goes off.

 

The current state of removing our one and only defense, control, while leaving in others ability to control us is unacceptable. Others use it for offense we use it to LIVE. We have to contend with cc nerfs, white bars, cc immunity in more than one class, pushback, constant roots, constant slows, constant stuns which we are hard pressed to live through even with a guard and healer, constant interrupts (I have 3 interrupts on my marauder), etc.

 

I think turret does not belong in this game but you insist on it so bring sorcs up to their namesake palpatine. See my signature for what he would currently think of rolling a sorc. Undo all the cc nerfs we have had. If we have to rely on cc to live then it needs to actually work. If someone doesn't like being controlled to bad; sorcs don't like being controlled AND killed in 2s because we have no defensives to speak of. It should be a pita to stay in range of us not a cake walk.

 

Knockback: return the 360 radius, why are we the only class who has a cone kb, that is inconsistent and ridiculous. Also give it an inherent 50% slow, if other classes can ahve one then so should we since we are not nearly as survivable as they are. I'm not going to ask for a change in this area but I am going to point out that not only does our KB currently have no free secondary cc like the others get it is also the weakest distance wise. With these simple changes it will still be inferior to other kbs. I would also like to say that this should be a sorc only feature not an assassin feature; they don't need anymore utility. Even they agree with that; their concerns are in other areas.

 

Stun: return our once every 60s 30m stun.

 

Bubble stun: return our bubble stun, the OP aspect was casting it on an entire group so that anyone who pops one stuns their attacker or the one they are attacking. There was absolutely no reason to over nerf it by removing it from the sorc themselves. It should affect only the sorc's personal bubble.

 

Single target slow: it needs to be increased to 70%. What good is a slow if it doesn't actually keep someone from getting to you because you are slowed by 50% as well and they have an incombat runspeed buff or tons of roots.

 

Force speed: it needs to break any movement impairing effects baseline and the corruption talent needs to be replaced with something else.

 

Immunity bubble: perhaps add a mezz or knockback slow to it. Currently it is not uncommon for people to just wait around for it to end then kill you anyways. Yay, we waited around for 10s doing nothing so we could die anyways. GG

 

Polarity shift: I should not be wasting a CD simply by being stunned or something. Immunity to any controlling effects for the duration would be nice. Perhaps lower the duration back down to 10s from 15s with talent in lightning and give that in it's place so it is more useful. Other classes have similar things so there is no reason we shouldn't.

 

Damage: needs to stay the same. No nerfs no buffs, it is fine as is; now let us actually do it.

 

Let's see these changes and then go from there. I suspect that will be enough. If we are going to be easy to shutdown by focusing us then the other team should be shutdown attempting to focus us so it evens out. If we are not doing damage because we spend so much time running then they should be doing nothing due to all the time they spend trying to get to us.

 

Ever try to pin down a good operative? Yeah, just like that. It is almost easier to kill his healees then kill him later due to how ridiculously hard it is to pin one down. I'm fine with everything else as is including our stuff all being on the GCD. Let's see how it goes by simply giving us back our cc. If you do not do this then we need to see other changes like removing pushback and giving us abilities that let us stand in place and cast while someone is beating on us. Simply getting to us to shut us down is not acceptable; either improve our ability to actually keep GROUPS of people at range long enough to cast or give us the ability to weather those groups so we can cast. It is far to easy to shut us down currently.

Edited October 29, 2013 by skarlson

[RougeBeaver]

I don't really feel Sorc has a problem kiting individual melee. If you can't get away (especially as Lightning) I'd suggest you L2P.

 

Two main things I feel Sorc could use...Restore the 30m range on Electrocute for Sorc only. It's a ranged class so it ought behave like one.

 

The other thing is more robust Force management. The BH and Agent classes both have special 2-minute cooldown energy restoration skills. Would it be possible to see something like this for Sorcerer as well? I like to call it a Panic button or an Emergency Resupply! Could also just improve Consumption somehow so it's less suicidal to use during a PVP fray.

 

Ok, one more thing I feel I should mention, I guess...Sorcerer has the fewest amount of skills among any Advanced Class. This is evidenced with how much free space I have on my quickbars. Even when I put on Thrash and Saber Strike (which I never use and neither should you), there's a bit too much room. Perhaps it's time Sorcerer was granted new utility skills? Such as Blink from WoW, for example...And let them scale heights with it too. No fair Warriors are the only ones who can bound the wall from the pit in Huttball.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Well fixing the quality of life for these specs and the sorcerer class in general is no small feat. I know that it is more complicated to add more abilities to the game than it is to adjust current ones. As such I have included ideas for adjustments based on no new abilities and adjustments based on some new abilities.

 

Without new abilities

 

Baseline:

-Force speed breaks roots and makes you immune to roots for it's duration

-Overload is given it's original 360 degree affect but it knocks targets back 5 more meters than it does currently. Usable while stunned.

-Polarity shift is given a shorter cooldown and remvoes spell pushback or "Spell pushback" Removed completely

-Unnatural perseverance is removed from global cooldown, reduces damage taken by 25% for 5 seconds if recklessness if used on it.

-Static barrier makes you immune to interrupts while it is up.

-Force barrier is given a shorter cooldown but less duration.

 

Gear

Please look at the 4 set force master and 4 set force mystic set bonus. They are not very useful and I have not known anyone other than an assassin to ever use the 4 set force master bonus.

-----------------------

 

It goes without saying that roots are overly common in this game. Some specs have roots attached to their main damage rotation (example rage specs). It is not only annoying but detrimental to have your main mobility and defense option (force speed) so easily countered. A lot of the time people don't even intend to counter it, they just happened to force charge/obilterate right as you hit the ability. Force speed needs this quality of life change as it is our main way to create space and survive yet often enough it doesn't function well when being focused.

 

The overload change is because well, overload is the weakest knock-back in the game and obviously the worst if of the ranged classes. Only full lightning spec gets any real use out of this ability. Sure it is useful if you need to knock someone off a ledge, but that only really works if they are standing right next to the ledge. The problem is this move doesn't even get you out of melee range of an enemy. A target in melee range with you will still be within 10 meters if knocked back using overload. This may not seem like "problem" but every class has a CC and some damage options they can use with a range of 10 meters and so overload only really works well on targets that are already out of melee range, which is a problem. You can use force slow then overload to make it more effective, but that only helps you on one target and that uses two globals just to make your knock-back useful. Another situation that occurs is often enough if you are force charged while running forward, due to the server lag the warrior will land on top of or behind you making the ability miss if overload is used on reaction. This ability could really use some quality of life improvements.

 

The spell pushback and polarity shift changes are for more obvious reasons. When focused (as the class often is) spell pushback becomes completely out of hand. A large reason snipers are effective in pvp is that cover makes them immune to interrupts and pushback. This allows them to function even while taking damage, while a sorcerer can not. Each time a cast is "pushed back" it increases the chances of it being interrupted or a CC breaking the cast. In no way am I advocating that we should be able to freely cast without ever being interrupted but interrupts are a large issue. Polarity shift isn't much of an offensive cool-down and it currently just allows us to function under pressure although it can be stopped by any form of cc, I see no reason it shouldn't have a slightly lower cooldown.

 

Corruption

-Overload slows targets hit by 60% for 3 seconds

-Innervate can not be interrupted ( high tier corruption talent)

-Force surge stacks can be used to cast an instant whirlwind, however casting whirlwind in this manner puts it on cool-down for 2 mins. Force surge stacks also reduce the amount of health taken by consumption.

-Physical Damage taken reduced by 20% while stunned

-Dark heal can be casted while moving if polarity shift is up

 

Lightning

-backlash removed due to overload changes

-electric binding's root won't break from affliction's damage until the 3 second.

-Crushing darkness is affected by subversion pushback protection.

-Damage taken reduced by 20% while rooted

-Shock and force slow create stacks of "unbreakable". At 3 stacks it makes your next thundering blast uninterruptable..

 

I removed backlash because it isn't a fun talent to play with or against. It is unfair against stealth classes, yet it also needlessly fills resolve at other times making our survivability worse. This talent really needs a look at because it is useless as a mez yet overpowered as a stun. It is a mechanic you can not control beyond opting not to take it, or to not use static barrier at all. It really needs to be replaced with a more solid, on demand defensive mechanic. That is why I changed overload to work as it does.

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Personally I think adding new abilities would be the better way to handle the class's problems. I will post ideas on that in a second post.

Edited October 29, 2013 by AdmiralParmesan

[AdmiralParmesan]

Another "option" would be to give our melee attacks defensive functionality. Snipers have shiv, Merc have rocket punch. Both of these moves deal decent damage and depending on the spec give some kind of extra functionality. Sorcs could have this too, trash/saber strike don't need to be DPS effective moves to improve our survivability.

 

Give trash a cooldown for sorcs and make it root/slow a target, or make trash increase our defense rating by 8% for 5 seconds. Currently the moves have no functionality because they don't benefit from our main stat.

 

It just seems silly that a light saber wielding class has no light-saber functionality. Giving these melee moves a defensive purpose could really help pvp while not adding new moves or affecting pve at all.