The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[Halinalle]

typically when I do tactical (or veteran now ...) as a dps, I nearly always end up as the tank unless one is there . Very rarely have I seen a dps that outdpsed me in those, even 70. Still its mostly just faceroll, altough having someone healing makes it a lot smoother.

 

Best tactical teams are typically 3 dps and a heal imo.

 

I know that. But who do you think Torch and Sawbone are going after while 3 dps are focusing on Vorgan?

This "tanks are bad" thing is going a bit too far. Just had guardian in group saying that BW should remove taunt from vanguard because VG tanks aren't able to tank.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Halinalle

[eriksarcasm]

Short story. Korriban Incursion, tactical. Me on my lvl 70 Watchman, 2 mid level "tanks" and a lowbie healer. Boss fights took way too long, and I kept having to dump aggro. With TWO tanks and a healer.

 

Granted one of the tanks was having pretty bad lag issues and kept us informed of such, but still. I'm not one of these serious players who inspects everyone, especially low/mid group mates, especially not in a Tactical, but I suspect at least one of those "tanks" was simply queued as one. I'm not positive about that seeing how the overall DPS was so low.

 

In reference to your last tale BobFredJohn, even I as a FP rookie am becoming increasingly suspicious of tanks lately. I think that's why a lot of hotshots are giving you a hard time, even though it seems from your stories (and a quick inspection of your toon would show them) that you're one of the increasingly rare tanks who knows what they're doing.

 

But, then again, some elephants are just jerks.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Story time !

 

I exceptionnally queued for tactictical and get a KDY pop. Group is a guardian tank, a sent, a sage healer and me on my infi shadow. Right away the tank put guard on the healer. I ask him why he put it on him and he tells me that's how it's done. I politely explain it's better to put guard on a DPS who rip aggro so you can manage it easier. Guardian then go on telling me he knows how it's done and his method is the way to go, even telling me he tanks HM ops to justify his point. A quick look through his achievements shows me he had only done EV and KP. I didn't want to fight with him so I didn't bother aswering anymore. The end of the FP was quite funny with me ripping aggro not once, not twice, not 3 times, but 4 times on all champions or boss. Everytime he taunted, I ripped aggro 1 or 2 GCD after the taunt wore off. But putting guard on the healer is definetely the way to go.

[heisen-berg]

2 very interesting cademimu runs today...

 

first to pop was HM, with shadow tank, sentinel dps, commando dps and myself healing. we zone in and the tank mentions that its been a while, so he may need the mechs explained to him, but hey its cademimu we should be fine.

the run to the first boss was a mess. the tank threw guard on me, whilst the dps melted because they were pulling agro. I remove guard from myself but he just throws it back on me, but seeing as we hadn't wiped I figured id just leave it.

 

we get to the first boss, and I explain that we need to trap the droid and burn, pointing out where the traps will most likely spawn and that it should be our #1 priority. so what do the tank and mdps do?? they jump straight on the officer, and proceed to keep attacking them even when they get the droid on them. wipe.

 

run back, I try to mention that if we don't trap the droid that we will wipe, but mr tank decided to leap straight back in at the officer. the commando tries to do the right thing when the droid comes after him, but decided to run into the prison rather than around it. I manage to barely keep him up but he goes down short after, as the droid has now turned to the tank who is still chugging away at the boss. wipe again.

 

I tell the commando that he has to go around, and say again that if we don't get the droid trapped we're wasting our time. this time I manage to get the droid trapped, but the officer has our melee dps in his sights and they were too far away from me to be able to heal so he goes down. with the droid trapped I begin to throw a bit of dps at him, someone had to, as the other dps all focus the officer.

 

Then they killed the officer....so the droid proceeds to enrage and we wipe.

 

I type again, that we need to kill the droid first, this prompts the sent to say that he "was just following the tank", which the tank responded with "the dps is **** that's the real problem"...then quit the group without a word, which didn't bother me at all.

 

we reque, get a tank who knows what theyre doing, but something else odd happened.. the sent ran into the trap again and died, I go to res him but he says "you will have better luck with a good dps I will leave", so he quit.. mid fight.... anyway, we beat the boss and proceed to clear the rest of the FP without a hitch.

 

if you don't want to follow mechanics stick to tacticals.

 

 

second run was a tactical; 3 dps and myself, or so I thought. we get to the last mob before the first boss when I notice that the commando qued as dps is throwing out kolto bombs... a healer spec ability. I point this out to them to which they respond, "yeah I que as dps and heals". now I have no problem with people who do this, as long as they respect according to whatever they get grouped as. the commando then proceeds to tell me that theres no need and that they can dps just fine as heal spec, so they wont respec.

 

so I stop healing them, if they want to stay in heal spec they can heal themselves.

 

as you can imagine, things were slow to say the least...to make things worse, it was quite clear that the other dps were unfamiliar with the FP, as they were all spread out on the wookie, even after I told them to stack, running all over the place when adds came there way. as we're on our way to the final boss, they quit the group without a word, so we just attempt to take the boss with a dps comp. I end up being the only one left standing with boss around 25%, so I say screw it and decided to save some repair costs and down him myself.

[Halinalle]

Stacking on wookie boss is bad idea because you all take damage from flamethrower. It's better to spread around him while still in melee range.

 

Also, it's better to damage Xander before droid starts moving instead of just standing near areas where traps will most likely spawn. Sentinel has Blade Blitz or whatever it's called, Shadow has Force Speed so it only requires them to pay attention.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Halinalle

[merovejec]

Stacking on wookie boss is bad idea because you all take damage from flamethrower. It's better to spread around him while still in melee range.

 

Also, it's better to damage Xander before droid starts moving instead of just standing near areas where traps will most likely spawn. Sentinel has Blade Blitz or whatever it's called, Shadow has Force Speed so it only requires them to pay attention.

 

You can burn down the wookie so fast it doesnt even matter. For the 25x kill achievement, which was added later on i was soloing the FPS, first 2 bosses since it took way longer with other ppl. You can still solo it now.

[Spyderwraith]

It warms my heart to see this thread so strong after all these years. Many hours of reading material.

I don't PUG GF anymore since cxp I spam PVP and yes I know this is a PVE forum but The hilarity of the PVP crowd that i am randomly grouped with

Random Idiot: "<My Name>, you're trash you're not even buffed.

Me: So what? I achieved many objectives while you run your mouth. How about you shut it"

Random idiot: "Yeah lets see how good you are.. oh hurdur i smashed better than you you're bottom of the list hurdur"

Me: "But I achieved objectives which is the point"

 

I will appease y'all by adding a positive GF experience though

I was levelling one of my many Alt tanks (Guardian) on Illum with Gree dailies and someone asked for help on the H4 so i helped this person.

Then this random GF pops up Assault on Tython Korriban Incursion i dunno the name it escapes me and I'm taken a back since it was unexpected

Me: Ummm is this tactical?

Person: Yes

So i click ok sure since i was level 68 and still needed 70

We group with a level 16 Gunslinger and a level 20 Sent I forget what level this other person was but they hit 70 in the FP since they started getting cxp drops. Shadow Tank Class though.

So two tanks and two damagers. clear trash fine whatever

First boss: We start it Lowbie GS dies three of us clear it. i took care of random dog adds since the other tank tanked the boss

Second droid boss: Tank says "Do y'all know it"

I pipe up with "well It's been a while honestly" since i hadn't run it since it's release the other two say "yup and I hate it"

Shadow: Don't stand in one place.

Ok easy enough.

So as the droid does it's thing the GS dies what seems like immediately, then the sent dies shortly after. we were using the stations but maybe the spiky damage is too much on the lowbies despite it being a tactical I don't know.

So we have 2 tanks hitting the droid and during the circle phase I'm just running around like a goon forgetting that you can stand still for just a second as the circle appears first lol it took me a few rotations of that phase to realise it.

Eventually since it was 2 tanks damaging this thing it goes down, it felt like forever. ( i had also been using Sabre reflect on his laser phase)

Third Boss: We do alright for a bit using stations to heal but eventually the Slinger dies. and we 3 man it.

So Not sure what the slinger was doing but he died pretty much every boss and I was the typical run around randomly during circle phase guy during second boss and it took us a while to complete it since we had two tanks. LOL

Overall not half as bad as some here and good for a laugh.

Afterwards the one Shadow from Illum had apoligized since they didnt realise we had remained grouped and she clicked the finder.

All good in the end since I got the Xp. we laughed and carried our merry way along.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Spyderwraith

[Zerileth]

FALSE EMPEROR HM 12-ish am Harbie

disclaimer: Nobody weird here. Just FP experience.

 

Me: commando healer, 68 commando dps, 68 smug, tank something. Tank immediately drops. Whatever, it happens.

So we start and I pull 50 Jorgan, tank spec. I'm leader so I requeue. Trash ok... pop the new commando God bubble ( love you Bioware. Where's my stockstrke?... hate you Bioware ), and no deaths.

Get to first boss Kresh and the bounty hunter ship. DPS to take over the ship terminal thingie and before I send Jorgie into battle I kolto probe, shield everyone and we begin. Jorgie ( at 50 mind you) is not a good tank. Comps are great healers, but sucky tanks. His health is dropping fast and he's letting me know. It's not looking good and I then remember my Heroic ability. Pop! And it helps. Health bars are coming back up... Boss at 50%. It's weird using Force lightning and Fly by as a commando... but we (I) were desperate. Kresh dies... no deaths and we move onwards.

Still no human tank queing in and we get to the 2 droids and the circle. Send in Jorgie and the fight goes fine. Move on to trash and eventually HK.

One of the DPS says HK has a quick enrage. So I say " then let's really focus on DPS!" Send Jorgie into battle... and actually, it doesn't go that bad. Pop heroic, and commando Force lightning, use health pot... no deaths. The following trash is a little nasty, but the new Commando God shield comes through ( where's my Stockstrike BW!) and we move on again.

Trash, trash, trash... some awesome stealth manuevers from the smug to get us through some spots and we head for Malgus. DPS pipes in and says a human tank will aid us right at Malgus. I hope so. Managing heals and Jorgan tank is not easy. Would like to say at this point that the 2 dps have been quite badazz.

So get ready for Malgus and shout out: "Stay on stairs/ backs to wall... blah blah blah" ... send Jorgie into battle. This fight is actually not too bad. Probably the easiest of the flashpoint. But at 50% Malgus health, Jorgie disappears. I say: "WTH?"

DPS: "He went over."

So now we're fighting Malgus HM 40% health with 2 dps and a healer. We're doing this! We've got him.

.... and in pops the human tank. Nice timing! He jumps in and it's weird... ( I'm so used to healing with a tank that it's like riding a bike all of a sudden. I just go into auto heal mode, and Malgus goes down. Fun group! The quirkie challenges can be the best times.

 

GET YOUR COMPS TO 50. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU'll NEED THEM.

 

PS. Weird note: why do I always want to go back to Malgus on fleet and tell him how the "False Emperor" FP went?

[Halinalle]

Korriban Incursion veteran

My lvl70 Shadow, lvl70 Commando, lvl70 Guardian and lvl38-ish Sage

We get to second boss with few annoyances on the way there (breaking cc etc.). We continue and I start getting whispers from commando saying how Sage wants to waste everyones time and pulls everything even if it's skippable. I noticed that too.

 

We manage to sneak past the group at the entrance and commando suggest that we split up and two take downstairs and two go upstairs. Sage and I go to left there and commando asks guardian to follow him. Nope, guardian doesn't follow commando and Sage stops following me. I go and defeat 3 enemies in first room. Still in combat? Well, I guess they all went to defeat the next group in downstairs. Nope, two enemies still standing there blocking their way. I have no idea where everyone else is. Maybe they are upstairs. I continue to kill 3 enemies in second room and then head upstairs. Still in combat?

 

Well, turns out someone pulled the enemy I cc'd earlier at doorway and the big group outside. Vote kick? I didn't even check it while running to help them. I thought commando has had enough of Sage. I should have checked it though since it was Sage kicking commando. Everyone dies because there's just too many enemies and I stealth out. I get whisper from commando asking why I kicked him. I said that I didn't vote to kick him and that only 2 persons are required to kick someone.

 

I start vote kick on Sage which goes through. Does guardian even care about who gets kicked and for what reason? I sent a whisper to commando saying that sage is kicked now. Commando wants to get back in but we were already in queue and guardian didn't click leave queue even when I asked him to. So, I thought it's pointless to wait there and left.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Halinalle

[heisen-berg]

Stacking on wookie boss is bad idea because you all take damage from flamethrower. It's better to spread around him while still in melee range.

 

Also, it's better to damage Xander before droid starts moving instead of just standing near areas where traps will most likely spawn. Sentinel has Blade Blitz or whatever it's called, Shadow has Force Speed so it only requires them to pay attention.

 

when you say spread around him I'm not sure how close you mean, but these guys were like, near the koltos spread, which meant the adds were all over the place. but yeah, in tacticals (and hm tbh) its just quicker and easier to stack on wookie, keeping adds and boss together. the damage output of wookie/adds isn't worth spreading.

 

also with xander... its fine to dps him sure, and yeah people can just jump away to traps, but like I said, they were paying no attention to the traps and ques, choosing to just burn xander down. in a tactical this would be the right thing to do but you cant do that in hm.

[Rollbacks]

Well I was in a Groupfinder Ravagers and the guy on M/B said this

http://i.imgur.com/UBRAxBt.jpg?1

 

Been doing it wrong this whole time. Hit me right in the feels

[Torvai]

Well I was in a Groupfinder Ravagers and the guy on M/B said this

http://i.imgur.com/UBRAxBt.jpg?1

 

Been doing it wrong this whole time. Hit me right in the feels

 

Well, he's not wrong

 

Certain abilities have travel times, which means being closer to the target and you hit them faster. Heatseeker is a good example, with a travel time of ~1.2secs at max distance.

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Torvai

[Rollbacks]

Well, he's not wrong

 

Certain abilities have travel times, which means being closer to the target and you hit them faster. Heatseeker is a good example, with a travel time of ~1.2secs at max distance.

 

 

Ultimately negligible in DPS though, and the conclusion is definitely wrong. As ranged, being max distance is far more preferable than being 10 to 15 away from any boss

[Torvai]

Ultimately negligible in DPS though, and the conclusion is definitely wrong. As ranged, being max distance is far more preferable than being 10 to 15 away from any boss

 

Sure, there's no difference in dps, apart from if the target dies before your last attack hits. But distance to target is depending on the boss. Sure, the farther away, the less you risk being cleaved etc, but other than that, there's no reason for a range dps or healer to not be in melee range. In fact, on some bosses like calphayus it's preferrable.

[Rollbacks]

Sure, there's no difference in dps, apart from if the target dies before your last attack hits. But distance to target is depending on the boss. Sure, the farther away, the less you risk being cleaved etc, but other than that,there's no reason for a range dps or healer to not be in melee range. In fact, on some bosses like calphayus it's preferrable.

 

 

http://dulfy.net/2015/03/17/positioning-aoe-attacks/#Why_max_distance_is_important

 

Calph depends on your groups strat. Some stack, some spread out . For some fights, it's definitely best to stack closer to the boss, however it's certainly not advice I'd give a ranged DPS outside specific encounters

[Torvai]

http://dulfy.net/2015/03/17/positioning-aoe-attacks/#Why_max_distance_is_important

 

Calph depends on your groups strat. Some stack, some spread out . For some fights, it's definitely best to stack closer to the boss, however it's certainly not advice I'd give a ranged DPS outside specific encounters

 

I'm not of a different opinion in general. All I'm saying is, that there's no general answer to that. Sometimes it's better to stay close, even as a range, sometimes it's better to stay at max range, sometimes it doesn't matter.

And that this guy wasn't generally wrong

[TwoLekku]

I'm not of a different opinion in general. All I'm saying is, that there's no general answer to that. Sometimes it's better to stay close, even as a range, sometimes it's better to stay at max range, sometimes it doesn't matter.

And that this guy wasn't generally wrong

 

What? No. Just stop. There are often far more things to dodge, avoid, or endure at melee range. Allow me to restate this mess for accuracy's sake:

 

It is always better to stay at range except for the one-off boss situation where it is temporarily and specifically strategic to group up in melee range.

 

There's a reason healers groan when they end up in a melee-heavy operation. There's a reason that melee complain about their dps downtime. Why in heaven or earth would you also want to be subjected to that as a ranged dps outside of the one-off boss strategy? Answer: you wouldn't.

[Torvai]

Alright, lets see. Only talking about NiM here.

TFB: Horror: irrelevant where you stand, literally, since he doesn't even cleave

Dread Guards: Spread out for lightning field, other than that, pretty much irrelevant

Operator: Irrelevant

Kephess: Irrelevant. melee range preferrable for nanites channeling on pillars

TFB: Outside of dropping puddles in phase one you actually need to be in melee range on tentacles to not drop them

S&V:

Dashroode: irrelevant, actually rather close due to shield

Titan: Irrelevant outside of splash aoe frm missiles which has nothing to do with range to the boss

Trasher: Irrelevant outside from dropping fire. Actually, melee range is required in order for the snipers to drop their buff.

Oasis City: Apart from being range so you don't ull the droid at green, irrelevant

Ops Chief: Irrelevent outside from explosive probe splash, which again, has nothing to do with distance from the boss

Olok: irrelevant

Warlords: Apart from being fixated by sunder irrelevant. Horric is better to be close so you get out of the random cleave faster

Styrak: Again, outside of splash from lighting, irrelavant

 

Of course as long as you not eating cleaves on purpose. I could go on. TLDR is, in this game there's almost no boss where it actually matters at what distance you are as a range dps.

Sure it may mean more movement required due to circles, but being at a range of 15-20m is almost always more than enough.

Again: I'm not saying that it's preferable to be in melee range, all I'm saying is, that it isn't that much of a deal.

[_Shaddai_]

Alright, lets see. Only talking about NiM here.

Snip...[/b]

 

But no mention of Malaphar, Squadron, Underlurker, Revan, Toth/Zorn, Torque, etc. off the top of my head anyway. There are quite a few bosses where being "at a range" is just simply better than being melee. Some require specific range. (Malaphar and his circle) and some you just want to be as far as possible while still dpsing what's necessary because of one thing or another. (Underlurker, Toth/Zorn, Squadron)

 

Point is, quite a few bosses were skipped being mentioned even though they are entirely relevant.

[shyroman]

But no mention of Malaphar, Squadron, Underlurker, Revan, Toth/Zorn, Torque, etc. off the top of my head anyway. There are quite a few bosses where being "at a range" is just simply better than being melee. Some require specific range. (Malaphar and his circle) and some you just want to be as far as possible while still dpsing what's necessary because of one thing or another. (Underlurker, Toth/Zorn, Squadron)

 

Point is, quite a few bosses were skipped being mentioned even though they are entirely relevant.

 

The only boss where being at max range is necessary or highly beneficial is zorn/toth.

Edited January 17, 2017 by shyroman

[Torvai]

But no mention of Malaphar, Squadron, Underlurker, Revan, Toth/Zorn, Torque, etc. off the top of my head anyway. There are quite a few bosses where being "at a range" is just simply better than being melee. Some require specific range. (Malaphar and his circle) and some you just want to be as far as possible while still dpsing what's necessary because of one thing or another. (Underlurker, Toth/Zorn, Squadron)

 

Point is, quite a few bosses were skipped being mentioned even though they are entirely relevant.

 

The question wasn't melee vs ranged, but if there are mechanics that make it benefical for ranged to be at max range to avoid or flat out circumvent certain mechanics.

Malaphar, no. You have to be in the circle and get out at certain stacks(or not, depending on gear and your healers), so no.

Squadron: No, red circles can land on everyone, same for the white circle and gravity missile.

Underlurker: I'll give you that due to the lurkerlings additional melee attack. Other than that, it's also irrelevant.

Revan is actually the other way around, two mechanics force you into melee even as a ranged dps(HK's shield and core).

Toth and Zorn, depends on your strategy. If your dps are competent, you can also switch targets after getting the dreadful debuff.

Torque, yeah I'll give you that too, due to turrets targeting the player closest to them. But this can also be dealt with by competent tanks.

 

And again: I'm not saying that range dps should stack at the boss at all times, but I'm saying it's not that big of a deal most of the time if they do. And that there are at least the same number of mechanics where you need to be in melee range than the other way around. And that the guy shown in the screenshot who said 15-20m is enough wasn't generally wrong.

But this is getting pretty off topic

[merovejec]

Sure, there's no difference in dps, apart from if the target dies before your last attack hits. But distance to target is depending on the boss. Sure, the farther away, the less you risk being cleaved etc, but other than that, there's no reason for a range dps or healer to not be in melee range. In fact, on some bosses like calphayus it's preferrable.

 

You meant Tyrans, no?

[LudhaninRolgge]

Underlurker: I'll give you that due to the lurkerlings additional melee attack. Other than that, it's also irrelevant.

 

That doesn't exist anymore (since 4.0). This mechanic was deemed too punishing on melee (which it was) and was removed.

[Torvai]

You meant Tyrans, no?

 

Nope, Calphayus. That big *ss red circle that slows/roots you, does'nt appear if the whole group is within melee range.

That doesn't exist anymore (since 4.0). This mechanic was deemed too punishing on melee (which it was) and was removed.

 

Then forget I said anything about it:p

Edited January 18, 2017 by Torvai

[merovejec]

Nope, Calphayus. That big *ss red circle that slows/roots you, does'nt appear if the whole group is within melee range.

 

Ah ok, yeah, well you can have a healer stand out there too