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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


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I just had a Group Finder FP run with a player queued as Damage. (this was Republic side, translations provided for Imperial players reference frame)

 

He was a Shadow (Assassin), spec'd Kinetic Combat (Darkness), using Combat Technique (Dark Charge). Every single pull, from start to finish, his rotation was:

  • stand 10 yards away
  • use Telekinetic Throw (Force Lightning) on cooldown
  • use Project (Shock) on cooldown
  • use Force Breach (Discharge) on cooldown
  • maintain Kinetic Ward (Dark Ward) religiously at 15 charges
  • stand there and do nothing else in-between these 4 cooldowns

 

Watching someone with a double-bladed lightsaber and rocks swirling around them stand outside melee range, never once swing their saber, and spam weak rock attacks was... really, really weird.

 

Damage was agonizingly low, fights took forever, but at least we had a Guardian DPS who really, really knew her stuff and carried us through (just barely) on tighter fights.

 

Naturally, he won all 3 pieces of Willpower gear that dropped. -.-

 

~~~

 

Anyway, I don't want to be negative and bashing or insulting confused players here. Instead, I'd just like to hear your stories about bizarre / crazy people you meet in Group Finder (or other groups) who make you go :confused: "Huh?? What?!" when you watch them playing.

 

It's honestly very cute / amusing, except when it gets you killed by enrage timers, etc. :p

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In a lower fp when I was tanking there was an assassin in his tank stance (dunno what's it called) with guard on the healer and strength on his gear. I asked him if he knew that I was actually tanking. He knew. I asked him, why he had guard on the healer. He said so that he would get less damage, to protect him. I guess.. the thought counts? And at first I thought he knew what he was doing because he had the founder title and a CM armor. I explained to him very friendly that he should switch out of his guard form, that the healer does not need guard and that he does not need strength. It was interesting, either way.
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Its funny I came across this post. I have'nt even used group finder yet and have only play in a group a couple of times and never PVP'd. The reason I shy away from groups is im dont want to be one of the guys you just posted about. I have a couple level 50's and working on more so its not like I dont know how to play but........idk.:o
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*snip*

 

To be fair, until 2.0, the optimal tanking rotation used exactly 0 (zero) melee skills for shadows. Weird perhaps but that's how it used to work. This is no longer true (and it's also better to have kinetic ward almost run out instead of refreshing it as soon as it's out of cd), but I'd expect people to be slow on the learning curve.

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When I was leveling an Imp alt, I kept being que'd with a sorc who:

 

1) Que'd as healer but refused to heal. If someone asked for heals he did not answer. Thankfully my friend que'd with me, and she could field respec into heals.

 

2) Was clearly spec'd in DPS tree. Did not answer when someone told him not to que as healer if he wanted to DPS.

 

3) Ran ahead of tank and aggro'd multiple groups. Wouldn't even offheal himself and died a lot. LOL

 

It was both annoying and funny at the same time seeing this guy go kamikaze and die over and over. We kept forgetting to put him on ignore, so that's why we ran into him so many times.

Edited by Radzkie
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1. That is not true at all, and never was.

 

...

Pretty sure GeckoOBac is referring to the "Thrash-less Rotation" for Shadow/Assassin Tanks. There wasn't much melee to be had in this rotation until the boss hits <30% (for Spinning Strike).

 

Of course, even the Thrash-less Rotation uses Saber Strike for force management. :)

Edited by Khevar
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Pretty sure GeckoOBac is referring to the "Thrash-less Rotation" for Shadow/Assassin Tanks. There wasn't much melee to be had in this rotation until the boss hits <30% (for Spinning Strike).

You can't be serious

 

Thrashless rotation used to go more or less like this:

 

Shock / Project, Wither / Slow Time, Discharge / Force Breach, Saber Strike, Shock / Project, Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw, Wither / Slow Time, Saber Strike, Shock / Project, Saber Strike, Saber Strike, Wither / Slow Time, Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw

 

So he can't be talking about Thrash-less rotation (which was not optimal BTW, as optimal was back the low-thrash rotation which would occasionally have a Thrash in place of Saber Strike) since even on targets that are not below 30%, even in the completely Thrashless rotation a lot of the attacks are Saber Strikes which does not really match with his claim of them using "exactly zero (0)" melee attacks.

 

Of course, even the Thrash-less Rotation uses Saber Strike for force management.

The point of using Saber Strike was not just about force management. Of course it is a no-cost attack as opposed to attacks that do cost force, so in that sense it is about force management too, but it does not actually give force to tanks like it does to a dps.

 

The other purpose of Saber Strike in the rotation was to fill the gaps. That is, it is better to hit the enemy with something rather than stand still doing nothing while both shock and wither are on cooldown and you still don't have full 3 stacks of harnessed darkness/harnessed shadows.

 

 

 

The post 2.0 rotations still follow for the most part same basic idea.

-When less than 3 stacks of harnessed darkness/harnessed shadows a priority is to use Shock / Project and Wither / Slow Time to build up to 3 stacks as fast as possible.

-When at full 3 stacks use Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw. Never use it with less than full 3 stacks.

-When both Shock / Project and Wither / Slow Time are on cooldown and you still have less than 3 stacks use melee attacks

What has changed is which melee attacks to use, but that's about it. And the rotation for maximum dps/threat might be slightly different now from rotation for maximum survivability/self-healing

 

 

 

Of course Assassins and Shadows could before 2.0 (and still can, although the difference is now much bigger, but before it was only a few percent) actually tank and do enough damage and threat to hold aggro at least against mediocre dps by using only their force powers, but such a rotation would require them to, as I already said, to frequently stand still doing nothing for several seconds while waiting for abilities come of cooldown. While possible, this is of course far from optimal.

 

Other alternative for a rotation without melee would be to use Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw on cooldown as often as you can, but that is definitely the stupidest thing a shadow/assassin tank could ever do, as its cooldown is much shorter than the time it takes to build up to 3 stacks and you would end up using it on 2 stacks which is just the worst mistake you could ever do, as it does not heal you at all without full 3 stacks. So you would loose all the healing from your most important self-healing ability, which makes up for 80-90% of your self-healing, making you the worst tank ever.

Edited by Eternalnight
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You can't be serious ...

Just between us chickens, I actually wasn't being particularly serious. I tossed off a casual comment, guessing at what another poster meant.

 

Somehow, this is so important to you, that you have to not only dissect my unimportant post into tiny pieces, but you have to then follow it up with a wall of text, on a thread that started out as "let's tell humorous stories about flashpoints"

 

The Shadow forum is that way. Perhaps there, your infinite wisdom may be appreciated in all it's glory.

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Huh. Well that is... more trivia about Shadow/Assassin tanking than I ever thought I'd learn, haha. :p

 

But he was trying to DPS and wasn't even spec'd into Harnessed Shadows (not joking, because I got bored with the incredibly long kill times and started watching his buffs every time he Project'd; I never even saw 1 stack of the HS icon). Instead he was just religiously avoiding melee range and TK Throw'ing on cooldown.

 

It was like a Sage trapped in a Shadow's body.

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As a Juggernaut tank I queued with a healer who refused to throw a heal at me until I had used all of my defensive cooldown's and was below 20% health. The dps were always at full health though.

 

Same thing happened when I queued with a tank buddy (I was Merc DPS) Healer wouldnt throw heals at the tank just at me and other DPS so I ended up spending half of the fights using medscan and kolto missiles on our tank inbetween dpsing bosses.

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meh, saw sage (sorc) once using quizen (khem) using only saber strike (default attack) and project (shock). he was folowing me on H2 area and attacking mobs that I pulled groups and then running away if he pulled aggro (was killing my bonus mission, pissed me off), breaking my mezzes... and kept inviting me to the party.

for a moment I though he was just troling me, so I swaped instances. after I finished my quest,bonus and some champion for the chest, I swaped instance back to see if he is still there.

he found party member, but he was still using same abilities. It was balmorra (so L 37 ish if I remember correct)

 

I can still feel that facepalm...

Edited by Atramar
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Huh. Well that is... more trivia about Shadow/Assassin tanking than I ever thought I'd learn, haha. :p

 

But he was trying to DPS and wasn't even spec'd into Harnessed Shadows (not joking, because I got bored with the incredibly long kill times and started watching his buffs every time he Project'd; I never even saw 1 stack of the HS icon). Instead he was just religiously avoiding melee range and TK Throw'ing on cooldown.

 

It was like a Sage trapped in a Shadow's body.

 

I assumed he was tanking as that was the tank stance. It can be used as a dps decently but then you definitely want to be in melee and use double strike.

 

To the other guys: the trashless rotation was optimal and I know all that, I just didn't want to spam the thread with shadow stuff where it doesn't belong.

 

That said, the damage done by saber strike is minimal and doesn't really contribute much to threat gen and it doesn't do anything at all for mitigation. Double strike had its uses but before 2.0 it was a scarcely used filler, while now it's an integral part of the rotation.

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I met a very interesting marauder yesterday, in EC through groupfinder. At boss fights, he actually seemed to know what he was doing: he run away from aoes, attacked the right boss and seemed to be familiar with the mechanics. But with thrash...it looked like it would be his first time. He kept running ahead of everyone, aggroing stuff he shouldn't aggro and once even attacked a target when we stealthers tried to cc the closest ones so the group could skip the mob. And you can guess twice who this guy attacked. That's right, a cced one!

 

It was pretty funny, since we actually never wiped even though he aggroed something. It was like he would have watched boss fight videos and read tactics until he could do the bosses in his sleep, and then he was in such a hurry to get to those bosses that he forgot that there are mobs in the area, too.

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A funny story? A Jedi Sage didn't want to CC (lift) an opponent because it would be an aggressive move. We had to bargain with him this is going to be playful for the creature and it will even be healed while in air.
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hmm.. just this week? :)

 

- Guardian with all kinds of mainstat on his gear (Aim, Cunning, Willpower) and a sage set-bonus (yes, a healer one.)

- Sorcerer aggressively saying 'bet you scum don't even know the tactics before entering' before we finished the first conversation in Black Talon, I hope to god he was a troll. Ofcourse he died to the Jedi Boss in the end.

- 2 Tanks in a row standing in AoE, very visual AoE (Black Talon, Fishy-boss and LI, Lorrick,) the last one winning a special price for flaming the DPS non-stop while amessing an impressive stack of 20+ Pink-stuff even with me cleansing whenever I wasn't maintaining my Kolto Probes. Highest was 42 stacks after a rez which I spotted the second he re-engaged Lorrick. Since it was pre-55 HM Flashpoints this simply gave me a lot of joy and challange healing the group (ok dodge-rolling the crap away from 3-hit-me-Lorrick,) so very entertaining.

 

The less entertaining ones;

- Person perma whisper flaming me for dc'ing. :( After he dc'd himself he left the instance and group, but continued saying I shouldn't queue if I'm going to dc... I wish I could predict it. :) His language was also quite vile...

- The brave guy jumping on Toth with 14k health before the team was there, without knowing the tactics. It turned out no-one but me knew the tactics since the other tank happily pounced Toth with 6 DPS following him while I desperately tried to keep Zorn 30m away from Toth while still healing my team with our other healer AFK (which was said in chat.) Brave Guy jumping Toth even had ops luitenant for a /RC. Toth died fast, have to hand that to my team, I stealth out and the other tank luckily takes Zorn after Brave Guy got 1-hit (Red Glowing Zorn is a beast.)

- Soon after tanking Zorn, my little operative got the honour of also tanking Stormcaller, whilst having field duty, whilst basicly taking over all of Stormcaller's tank duties since it was a bit too confusion for the team, including running around in the field during defensive systems, ouch, EC has such complicated tactics! Oh, wait ^^ It went well until Firebrand died, ouch.

 

Haven't tried my groupfinder luck since then. :) Though I sure do attract the odd teams. How-ever I do seem to attract extremes, either people are very inexperienced and not too friendly or very eager to learn and quick learners / already damn amazing. I love the last 2 options. Anyone else get the smile on their faces when somebody says 'I've never done this before, please tell me anything I need to know.' Those people! <3

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I met a very interesting marauder yesterday, in EC through groupfinder. At boss fights, he actually seemed to know what he was doing: he run away from aoes, attacked the right boss and seemed to be familiar with the mechanics. But with thrash...it looked like it would be his first time. He kept running ahead of everyone, aggroing stuff he shouldn't aggro and once even attacked a target when we stealthers tried to cc the closest ones so the group could skip the mob. And you can guess twice who this guy attacked. That's right, a cced one!

 

It was pretty funny, since we actually never wiped even though he aggroed something. It was like he would have watched boss fight videos and read tactics until he could do the bosses in his sleep, and then he was in such a hurry to get to those bosses that he forgot that there are mobs in the area, too.

Maybe he felt like there's no need for any tactics on trash. I wouldn't be so bold to do that in ops, but in FPs, when I know it will make zero difference, I'll pull before tank without thinking twice.

Edited by zzoorrzz
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Maybe he felt like there's no need for any tactics on trash. I wouldn't be so bold to do that in ops, but in FPs, when I know it will make zero difference, I'll pull before tank without thinking twice.

 

I have dropped groups for the dps doing this. I find it highly insulting. I'm either the tank all the way through it I'm not. I refuse to run with DPS who only let me fulfill my role when they deem it necessary. I will not be the meat shield you only pull out for the boss fights.

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A funny story? A Jedi Sage didn't want to CC (lift) an opponent because it would be an aggressive move. We had to bargain with him this is going to be playful for the creature and it will even be healed while in air.

 

Extreme pacifism.

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I have dropped groups for the dps doing this. I find it highly insulting. I'm either the tank all the way through it I'm not. I refuse to run with DPS who only let me fulfill my role when they deem it necessary. I will not be the meat shield you only pull out for the boss fights.

 

Then you were too slow in pulling, that's why it happened. Sure take your time before boss, but dont stand around before every pack, possibly asking "rdy?"

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Maybe he felt like there's no need for any tactics on trash. I wouldn't be so bold to do that in ops, but in FPs, when I know it will make zero difference, I'll pull before tank without thinking twice.

 

When you have 16k hp, I'd strongly recommend that you let the tanks do the pulling in ops. It's so much easier than running after you and taunting everything you just aggroed.

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Then you were too slow in pulling, that's why it happened. Sure take your time before boss, but dont stand around before every pack, possibly asking "rdy?"

 

No that wasn't the reason. When DPS starts fights before I even log into the FP, when DPS runs ahead while I'm healing and jumps mobs, when I ask why and I am told "This is just crap trash that I don't need you for! You just stay back with the healer until I tell you you're needed!"

 

The fact is I'm not God's gift to Tanking. Therefore every chance I get to gather and hold agro on a proper pull helps me learn. I go the pace I go and any DPS that can't handle that and refuses to allow me to properly fulfill my role goes on my ignore list and gets to listen to the rest of the group rail at him/her for costing them a tank while he/she waits for another tank that's content to be their personal meatshield and come when called.

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Then you were too slow in pulling, that's why it happened. Sure take your time before boss, but dont stand around before every pack, possibly asking "rdy?"

 

Some dps pull without such situation, but still. When I'm tanking or healing, I give a fair warning. Dps keep pulling before the tank does, I won't be arsed healing them or taking the mobs off of them. Usually after they die once they get the message. Funny how that works.

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A group kicked me on my Sorc healer in HM 55 BT because I was DPSing. I healed and made sure no one died, but I was DPSing during thrash and boss fights when no one was in danger of dying. I think it was right after the big probe boss that they kicked me.

 

P.S. no one died while i was healing them / dpsing the adds..

Edited by paowee
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