The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[midianlord]

This. On Republic side you have to play a lot of flashpoints to even get anything worth writing about. Empire side is another story entirely...

 

See, ^that's^ why I took the time to grind up Influence 50 on a comp or three, and try to get at least "kinda" raid-geared every iteration, even if just SM-level:

 

'Cuz then I can just go solo the frigging tacticals, and not have to worry about bads ever again! At least until the next gear-reset, anyway.

 

Another reason to blame those incompetents in Austin for GC screwing me out of playing the way I want, at the very least in the short-term.

Edited March 8, 2017 by midianlord

[Kaldron_Fell]

The Foundry veteran. Three DPS, one healer. Forgot classes, doesn't matter for this story.

 

So everyone runs to the first convo, me and healer arrive first. Healer say "FIRST!" which I find weird but oh well. So the rest arrives, healer sees that one DPS is a twi'lek and goes on about how they're filthy alien scum with "unwashed lekku". Hm.

 

First boss, I tank, no problem, easy. Healer says to twi'lek "Nice DPS" - "thanks" - "/slow clap". Hmm.

 

Eventually, healer complains that twi'lek isn't doing anything, just following us. I didn't notice, just doing my DPS thing and all. Don't care much either, could DPS this alone. Twi'lek says "you only notice that now? nice CXP!" Healer initiates a kick vote. I vote against because I don't care for that kindergarden BS. Healer spams that twi'lek should go kill himself.

 

At that point I decide I'm not a kindergarden teacher, apologize to the third DPS and leave. Healer and twi'lek end up on ignore.

 

Later did another FP with that third DPS, went 100% smoothly.

[aerockyul]

HM Hammer Station: Get to first boss, tank reminds healer pre-pull to cleanse stacks. Fight starts, I see tank quickly taking huge damage on beams, I cleanse tank, thinking healer (also commando) just forgot or whatever. 2nd beam... no cleanse. I cleanse again. 3rd beam... no cleanse. I end up cleansing every beam. Was tempted to let tank die to show healer needs to learn how to cleanse but that'd be unfair to the tank. How is a healer doing one of the easiest HM FPs without knowing how to heal properly even with a reminder before the pull?

 

If the healer was relatively new to HM and/or the game in general, they may not know what the cleanse is or what "cleanse stacks" means. The game outside of these HM's, Operations, and PvP doesn't really require anyone anymore to cleanse anything (and in some of that content a lot of the encounters can be ignored due to various nerfs throughout the years). It's the same with the Interrupt ability. It used to be that if you could not figure out how and when to use Interrupt during leveling you just weren't going to progress until you figured it out. Now we can all just laugh off Terminate anytime a formerly hard-hitting NPC casts it.

 

Pugging HM Hammer Station is funny sometimes as a healer. I usually cleanse at 7 stacks, because if you cleanse too early you're not really helping, and if you cleanse too late it will be...too late. I've had tanks panic-type at me to cleanse when they're only at 2 or 3 stacks, off-heal dps cleanse at 1 because they don't think I'm paying attention, and when I'm running it as dps or tank I see a lot of healers that have no idea about the cleanse at all. If I'm on my dps that can cleanse I'll watch it to 7 just as I normally would if it doesn't get cleansed before then.

[SalBasss]

I have to say, after reading a ton of pages of this thread over the past week or so, I kind of want to make some "weird" comments from now on when I first load into a GF FP... just to freak people out. For instance, if we get in there and I'm on a Sentinel, maybe I'll say "I'M TANKING!" or I'll ask for a guard when I queue as a tank. All just kidding around, of course.

[eriksarcasm]

See, ^that's^ why I took the time to grind up Influence 50 on a comp or three, and try to get at least "kinda" raid-geared every iteration, even if just SM-level:

 

'Cuz then I can just go solo the frigging tacticals, and not have to worry about bads ever again! At least until the next gear-reset, anyway.

 

Another reason to blame those incompetents in Austin for GC screwing me out of playing the way I want, at the very least in the short-term.

 

I kinda want to hear your explanation of how Bioware is at fault for bad players, but at this point I'm just so sick of your complaining I'm just putting you on ignore.

 

midianlord...... YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

[josephinec]

The Foundry veteran. Three DPS, one healer. Forgot classes, doesn't matter for this story.

 

So everyone runs to the first convo, me and healer arrive first. Healer say "FIRST!" which I find weird but oh well. So the rest arrives, healer sees that one DPS is a twi'lek and goes on about how they're filthy alien scum with "unwashed lekku". Hm.

 

First boss, I tank, no problem, easy. Healer says to twi'lek "Nice DPS" - "thanks" - "/slow clap". Hmm.

 

Eventually, healer complains that twi'lek isn't doing anything, just following us. I didn't notice, just doing my DPS thing and all. Don't care much either, could DPS this alone. Twi'lek says "you only notice that now? nice CXP!" Healer initiates a kick vote. I vote against because I don't care for that kindergarden BS. Healer spams that twi'lek should go kill himself.

 

At that point I decide I'm not a kindergarden teacher, apologize to the third DPS and leave. Healer and twi'lek end up on ignore.

 

Later did another FP with that third DPS, went 100% smoothly.

 

Are you on a roleplay server? Sometimes people will randomly rp in group content. Doesn't happen a lot, but it happens sometimes.

 

Otherwise, you were probably unlucky enough to get stuck with a very radical troll. Some people think that garbage is funny.

[josephinec]

See, ^that's^ why I took the time to grind up Influence 50 on a comp or three, and try to get at least "kinda" raid-geared every iteration, even if just SM-level:

 

'Cuz then I can just go solo the frigging tacticals, and not have to worry about bads ever again! At least until the next gear-reset, anyway.

 

Another reason to blame those incompetents in Austin for GC screwing me out of playing the way I want, at the very least in the short-term.

 

Buddy, it's not Bioware's fault. They probably assumed it would be better to streamline everything.

 

And it's people like you, who think they're so much more competent and better than filthy "n00bs" and "bads", who refuse to actually help newbies or solo players. How many times have I seen on the forums or in chat "figure it out yourself"? It's sad. Why are fans like this?

 

FYI, I'm not saying I've never snapped at an idiot, but there's a difference between someone saying "I need help" or clearly being lost, and someone trolling or refusing to listen to help. Example: last night on Jedi Covenant, my Shadow tank got stuck in a Red Reaper where a dummy Sentinel kept pulling before her, even when I asked him several times to stop. I left after the first boss because he wouldn't even let me stealth CC a mob.

[KristoKal]

See, ^that's^ why I took the time to grind up Influence 50 on a comp or three, and try to get at least "kinda" raid-geared every iteration, even if just SM-level:

 

'Cuz then I can just go solo the frigging tacticals, and not have to worry about bads ever again! At least until the next gear-reset, anyway.

 

Another reason to blame those incompetents in Austin for GC screwing me out of playing the way I want, at the very least in the short-term.

 

Even with bad players flashpoints are way funnier than alone, In this point I am able to solo most veteran flaspoints with lvl50 comp, but doing it only once, just to prove myself, I can do it. Do not see any reason to solo flashpoints anymore. CXP? Run Kotfe chapter1. Veteran mode take about 6min to complete and score you over 3000cxp.

 

Now to topic. Ad told before, even I run lot of flashpoint`s I rarely meet "those" groups. Well ysetreday I saw something fun. Mandalorian raiders, Shadow tank who refused to stealth. When asked, they say, " I am not coward" I was with my shadow dps and end up tank most part, becouse this brave soul died really fast.. Good thing I was with 2 guildy, We didint mind this, laughed it through. All fight went like this, shadow tank pulled, died I was next on aggro list and tanked to end. First fight`s this tank yelled rev rev. When we told we cant middle of fight and after while out of combat rev was on cooldown for all as well. He told to find a way We completed flashpoint without bigger issue, we didnt kick this one, becouse it was funny, we got good laughs. Oddest thing of all, this one had around 15k achivement score. So maybe they was just trolling. But now I know that shadow should never stealth, its cowardly act...

[Halinalle]

FYI, I'm not saying I've never snapped at an idiot, but there's a difference between someone saying "I need help" or clearly being lost, and someone trolling or refusing to listen to help. Example: last night on Jedi Covenant, my Shadow tank got stuck in a Red Reaper where a dummy Sentinel kept pulling before her, even when I asked him several times to stop. I left after the first boss because he wouldn't even let me stealth CC a mob.

 

No one is saying otherwise. If players says that they're doing flashpoint or operation for the first time or even returning player getting used to game after a long time it helps a lot. But then we have situations where you're the only one who knows how to do the fight and no one listens. I've had two Red Reaper veteran mode runs where nobody interrupted Chosen this week alone. Even after I told them to do it. Well, I had to do it in the end so we wouldn't get stuck there forever. We did finish both runs without big issues and it's the most important thing. Let's not even start with sentinels/marauders who don't pay any attention to their surrounding especially before using Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw. Or Sages/Sorcs who think they are god.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Halinalle

[aerockyul]

No one is saying otherwise. If players says that they're doing flashpoint or operation for the first time or even returning player getting used to game after a long time it helps a lot. But then we have situations where you're the only one who knows how to do the fight and no one listens. I've had two Red Reaper veteran mode runs where nobody interrupted Chosen this week alone. Even after I told them to do it. Well, I had to do it in the end so we wouldn't get stuck there forever. We did finish both runs without big issues and it's the most important thing. Let's not even start with sentinels/marauders who don't pay any attention to their surrounding especially before using Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw. Or Sages/Sorcs who think they are god.

 

A double saber throw combined with a well-timed leap looks so awesome though!

Not that I would do that

But hey, if you ever see me on my juggers, I jump up over a mob's head and Smash/Slam the middle of them from the top of the jump. Looks really cool. Probably makes me look crazy to others though

[LordTurin]

A double saber throw combined with a well-timed leap looks so awesome though!

Not that I would do that

But hey, if you ever see me on my juggers, I jump up over a mob's head and Smash/Slam the middle of them from the top of the jump. Looks really cool. Probably makes me look crazy to others though

 

The throw plus leap isn't as big a problem as the leap then throw (and pull the mob behind the leap)

[josephinec]

The throw plus leap isn't as big a problem as the leap then throw (and pull the mob behind the leap)

 

Did I ever tell you guys about the Sage I had in a Hammer Station long ago that went behind the mobs in the hall of death and aggroed them with Forcequake? We wiped three times on that mob alone and each time everyone else including me begged them to stop before we kicked them.

[midianlord]

Buddy, it's not Bioware's fault. They probably assumed it would be better to streamline everything.

 

And it's people like you, who think they're so much more competent and better than filthy "n00bs" and "bads", who refuse to actually help newbies or solo players. How many times have I seen on the forums or in chat "figure it out yourself"? It's sad. Why are fans like this?

 

FYI, I'm not saying I've never snapped at an idiot, but there's a difference between someone saying "I need help" or clearly being lost, and someone trolling or refusing to listen to help. Example: last night on Jedi Covenant, my Shadow tank got stuck in a Red Reaper where a dummy Sentinel kept pulling before her, even when I asked him several times to stop. I left after the first boss because he wouldn't even let me stealth CC a mob.

 

Mate, you're making the frequent mistake of conflating "newbs" with "noobs."

 

These are not the same things, at all. (Hint/proof: Many "noobs" are actually far from new, at least IME.)

 

Helping a genuine newbie, who wants to learn, who sees getting better as a key to further enjoyment and therefore at least partially its own reward...Let me assure you, I have no problems whatsoever with that. I've helped out, offered advice, explained fights/rotations/tactics to quite a few players like that, and never regretted it.

 

If I were to stay with this game, IE, if it wasn't going in the egregiously awful direction it is, then I'd expect to do so in future too, again, with no problem at all.

 

Noobs refuse to learn, or improve, or even acknowledge that they might need to --that's what makes them noobs,

 

The fact that this game has no way to punish such bad behaviour, in either the explicit/in-the-moment sense, or in the long-term "community ostracism" sense (at least, no-one seems to care enough anymore to try and make the latter a reality, despite groups being server-locked in this game), and that I really can't do much about it except eat the repair-bill and hope for better next time, is why I avoid PuG groups anymore.

 

And mate, there is no way you can't have seen --especially if you tank-- just how bad PuGs have been getting ever since [TACTICAL] type instances débuted. (Or whatever they're called now.)

 

I don't pretend to be anything like the best --my hardcore days, along with my twitch-optimised reflexes are long behind me-- but I know I'm not terrible, either. (Merc + experience + treachery can go a long way ) Why, then, should I compromise the achievement of my goals by lowering myself to that poor of a standard when,

 

A) I explicitly don't have to, in the mechanical/gameplay sense.

 

B) My failing to meet the standard my way won't hurt anyone but me?

 

See? Less coddling of bads = everyone benefits. (Not least of all, my stomach-lining from having less stress in my life )

Edited March 10, 2017 by midianlord

[Halinalle]

Mate, you're making the frequent mistake of conflating "newbs" with "noobs."

 

These are not the same things, at all. (Hint/proof: Many "noobs" are actually far from new, at least IME.)

 

Looks like it's again time to remind the young where they got their slang from:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet#n00b

Edited March 10, 2017 by Halinalle

[midianlord]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet#n00b

 

Not what I remember being told years ago, but whatever. Being the 1337-357 1337-5p34k3r (<---There: Did I do it right?) of them all is obviously important. [/sarcasm]

[Torvai]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet#n00b

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

Two related terms are "newb", a beginner who is willing to learn; and "noob" (often spelt "n00b", "nuub" or "nub"), a derogatory name for an inexperienced or under-talented hacker or gamer, who lacks the determination to learn.

 

If you want to correct people, do it right

Edited March 10, 2017 by Torvai

[aerockyul]

The fact that this game has no way to punish such bad behaviour, in either the explicit/in-the-moment sense, or in the long-term "community ostracism" sense (at least, no-one seems to care enough anymore to try and make the latter a reality, despite groups being server-locked in this game), and that I really can't do much about it except eat the repair-bill and hope for better next time, is why I avoid PuG groups anymore.

 

I'm genuinely interested in knowing what other methods there might be to punish bad behavior, since I'm not an MMO vet or anything and have no experience grouping in the few other MMO's I've dipped my toe into.

 

I like that when I ignore a noob the game will not let that noob into any of my PvE groups going forward. It sucks that it doesn't work in PvP, I think I would PvP MUCH more often if that was the case, and I'd be happy to eat the extended queue times.

 

That would seem to ostracize the noobs in the long term if enough people were bothered enough to ignore them. It might explain why some people complain about not being able to get a queue pop for PvE content yet other people don't seem to have a problem with it.

Edited March 10, 2017 by aerockyul

[Halinalle]

This has to be the weirdest GF experience this week.

 

Depths of Manaan tactical on my level 70 sentinel still in 216s with 230 earpiece and implant.

Two group members drop before even first pull. Understandable. It's tough if you have many low levels in group but we only had one. So, those who left were the low level and one of the 70s. We requeue and wait. Low level dps guardian who only used basic attack and low level sage who claimed to be healer. Few pulls later we get to hallway of death. I accidentally pull second group in hallway with Twin Saber Throw. I know, kill me.

 

We kill the enemies even though sage dies. Sage then starts complaining about aggro and the other level 70 ends up leaving without saying anything. I pull out my trusty friend T7 and sage says that we should use his/her companion. Okay... My level 50 T7 vs his/her level unknown companion? I guess we are fine with T7. Guardian jumps to boss, luckily I know this fight and crossed the line on floor soon enough. Sage got locked out. T7 has to tank boss and one of the droids for very long time in heal stance. Sage continues complaining about something. Sage DC'd at one point and didn't return. Guardian kept attacking wrong target but I didn't have time to explain because I was too busy with running from kolto to kolto and hitting whatever was on my way after T7 went down. Guardian died later but I decided to continue because it felt way too easy...

 

Guardian left later after not getting revived while I was still in combat. Again, without saying anything. I killed the boss and quit.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Halinalle

[Kaldron_Fell]

Honestly? Depth of Manaan vet? It's not even that difficult. Really don't get why people just quit before even checking out their group. I've been doing that one a lot lately and I've had one guy quit, their loss. We did it without problems.

 

My problem right now when pugging vets is with inconsiderate dolts more than with quitters or newbies. People that do know their rotation, but that have zero consideration for their fellow players. People force-speeding far ahead of the group and then pulling bosses, alone. Expecting you to come save their bottom, or maybe expecting they can do it alone. And maybe they can, but... c'mon? We're supposed to be a group here? Doing stuff together, not against each others?

 

Am I being to sensible? Because that really tees me off and when I ask about it and get 'lol' as only reply, I put these people in my Golden List of Super Heroes....

[midianlord]

I'm genuinely interested in knowing what other methods there might be to punish bad behavior, since I'm not an MMO vet or anything and have no experience grouping in the few other MMO's I've dipped my toe into.

 

I like that when I ignore a noob the game will not let that noob into any of my PvE groups going forward. It sucks that it doesn't work in PvP, I think I would PvP MUCH more often if that was the case, and I'd be happy to eat the extended queue times.

 

That would seem to ostracize the noobs in the long term if enough people were bothered enough to ignore them. It might explain why some people complain about not being able to get a queue pop for PvE content yet other people don't seem to have a problem with it.

 

"Own-goal" on 'em.

 

IE, if they do something egregiously poor --like that tank who just drops in the middle of a boss-fight that was going perfectly fine-- you can go after them, and gank them. And you can keep doing so until they either rage-log, or get friends to help deal with you.

 

Noobs do seem to get "some" degree of ostracism from /ignore, but can this really be proven to be the case, in all cases?

 

There have never been enough tanks in queue, so it could just be long queues because of that, but that's always the case for DPS, relatively speaking. My experience with bad tanks has been that you can certainly /ignore them --and I do-- but the only one who really suffers for that is you if you don't tank. I personally can somewhat get around this by dabbling in healing on my Mercs, but what if, for today, I've decided that I feel like playing pure-DPS classes like Snipinger or Mara/Sent? Or if I just want to NUKE ALL THE THINGS on my Mercs (or PTechs) and don't feel like healing (or tanking)?

 

That's why there needs to be some explicit, demonstrable way for the community to police itself, and enforce standards, not necessarily more "harshly," but much more "openly" than simply /ignoring someone allows. A way that says in no uncertain terms, "If you keep pissing people off, then it will definitely suck to be you, eventually."

 

Choice <-----> consequence, in the meta/out-of-game sense, basically. Which simply cannot be a thing in a game like this one --and all too many post-WoW themeparks-- because of the almost complete lack of player-agency.

Edited March 12, 2017 by midianlord

[LordTurin]

"Own-goal" on 'em.

 

IE, if they do something egregiously poor --like that tank who just drops in the middle of a boss-fight that was going perfectly fine-- you can go after them, and gank them. And you can keep doing so until they either rage-log, or get friends to help deal with you.

 

Noobs do seem to get "some" degree of ostracism from /ignore, but can this really be proven to be the case, in all cases?

 

There have never been enough tanks in queue, so it could just be long queues because of that, but that's always the case for DPS, relatively speaking. My experience with bad tanks has been that you can certainly /ignore them --and I do-- but the only one who really suffers for that is you if you don't tank. I personally can somewhat get around this by dabbling in healing on my Mercs, but what if, for today, I've decided that I feel like playing pure-DPS classes like Snipinger or Mara/Sent? Or if I just want to NUKE ALL THE THINGS on my Mercs (or PTechs) and don't feel like healing (or tanking)?

 

That's why there needs to be some explicit, demonstrable way for the community to police itself, and enforce standards, not necessarily more "harshly," but much more "openly" than simply /ignoring someone allows. A way that says in no uncertain terms, "If you keep pissing people off, then it will definitely suck to be you, eventually."

 

Choice <-----> consequence, in the meta/out-of-game sense, basically. Which simply cannot be a thing in a game like this one --and all too many post-WoW themeparks-- because of the almost complete lack of player-agency.

 

So instead of /ignoring, because that only hurts you apparently because we don't have enough tanks, you gank them and annoy them enough that they either quit playing or get friends to come beat you up, and by this time probably remember your name well enough to either /ignore you, drop group if they see you in it, or vote kick you as soon as they see you. Yes, I can definitely see how that works better than /ignoring the person you'd like to ignore...

 

At the end of the day, even with your "solution" if you have every tank in the game on ignore, or annoyed enough at you they won't play with you, your only option is to make your own tank. Honestly, the solution is not giving player agency to this problem (as your solution would backfire spectacularly), but to incentivise people to play roles that are lacking. If tanks are the bottleneck in queue at a certain point, they get double cxp. If it is healers, they get double cxp. After enough time doing this, BW would be able to figure out the sweet spot (i.e. double may make it so everyone swaps to their tank, so maybe 1.5x is better), and then if you ignore someone who plays badly, it is not a problem as there are plenty of people of the same role still available.

[Halinalle]

I decided to continue leveling my scoundrel healer.

 

First I did Battle of Rishi which went well apart from our low dps and few deaths: one trash pull and companion accidentally pulling enemies standing next to second computer terminal. I did few heroics and then decided to queue for veteran mode fp: Hammer Station

 

I mentioned that I'm not very good at healing. Most of the fp goes well. Then we reached last boss and chaos broke lose. Gunslinger and commando standing in boss' frontal attack. Shadow tank died probably because I was too busy healing the two dummies. Rest of the fight was very chaotic because they ignored adds completely. Shadow managed to run back to us before boss died.

 

Maybe I stick to healing my companion...

Edited March 12, 2017 by Halinalle

[Lesheren]

Veteran mode fp for daily reward. Sin and sorc from the same guild, me and lvl 33 mara. After the first boss sorc voted to kick mara. Reason: ugly gear. It failed , so I decided "well, very bad joke, but at least his guildy declined it". Ten seconds later sin voted to kick that mara. Reason " ugly gear 2". Me -> o.O

Mara was kicked. Asked "why?", got the answer " Next time wear better gear.

I left fp after that , put both on ignore.

I have no idea what mara was wearing, pretty sure though it wasn't body type 4 male character in pink Nar Shaddaa slave outfit , but even if it was who cares. The only ugly thing there was the situation itself.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Lesheren

[JediAkemi]

Veteran mode fp for daily reward. Sin and sorc from the same guild, me and lvl 33 mara. After the first boss sorc voted to kick mara. Reason: ugly gear. It failed , so I decided "well, very bad joke, but at least his guildy declined it". Ten seconds later sin voted to kick that mara. Reason " ugly gear 2". Me -> o.O

Mara was kicked. Asked "why?", got the answer " Next time wear better gear.

I left fp after that , put both on ignore.

I have no idea what mara was wearing, pretty sure though it wasn't body type 4 male character in pink Nar Shaddaa slave outfit , but even if it was who cares. The only ugly thing there was the situation itself.

 

That's just... wow.

What kind of lunatic kicks someone for wearing "ugly gear"? I've seen (and always opposed) booting for being low-level, but not for ugly gear.

 

Though that does remind me of this one Athiss run where a level 29 Sage appeared in grey and white quality armour from Tython, the starting practice blade, and no left side. He claimed to be new, and I was running with at least one other Guildmate so I figured we could teach him as we went, and that the reason he had nothing was because he hadn't finished Tython yet (stupid ridiculously-fast leveling right now).

 

We did say that with his complete lack of gear he would have to be extremely careful, so we got started, told him to stick close and that we'd explain things as needed.

Not surprisingly, he died against the first boss - attacked before I could finish typing how it worked, and karked it another couple of times before we got to the second boss by pulling extra groups... and he started the second boss before I could explain or the rest of us were even in position... so yeah.

Second attempt at the boss, I noticed he suddenly had a different outfit so I checked his gear, which was now a bunch of random greens and blues, but still some slots missing. There was no way he got that stuff during the TFP run itself - it was stuff that he had to have had already but decided for some reason not to put on (and he had plenty of time while we waited for my guildmate to load in properly at the start) until after he'd died four times and caused a TPK.

 

Naturally, we were displeased, and an argument broke out that resulted in him trying to kick me from the group and then quitting when that failed. Summoned a companion and the rest was history - no new 4th materialised before the final boss but we didn't need one.

[KristoKal]

Veteran mode fp for daily reward. Sin and sorc from the same guild, me and lvl 33 mara. After the first boss sorc voted to kick mara. Reason: ugly gear. It failed , so I decided "well, very bad joke, but at least his guildy declined it". Ten seconds later sin voted to kick that mara. Reason " ugly gear 2". Me -> o.O

Mara was kicked. Asked "why?", got the answer " Next time wear better gear.

I left fp after that , put both on ignore.

I have no idea what mara was wearing, pretty sure though it wasn't body type 4 male character in pink Nar Shaddaa slave outfit , but even if it was who cares. The only ugly thing there was the situation itself.

 

Tought those times are over, there was time when shadow tanks got kicked for light armour. Or you cant possibly tank in bikini etc. But tought its over...

Edited March 13, 2017 by KristoKal