Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

[WarbNull]

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

As a subscriber, I have yet to use any of my Monthly Cartel Coins that I am granted. Nothing that is in the Cartel Market appeals to me yet, to spend these Coins on them. Maybe if the prices were cheaper. As a subscriber I would have to wait two months to get enough Coins to buy just one thing that actually looks cool. And I would still have to purchase a few extra coins to get it. That is if I just rely on my Subscription Allotment of Coins. One item every two months just does not seem worth it to me as a subscriber. I also do not go for those Cartel Packs as I will not purchase anything without knowing exactly what I am getting. Especially with a chance to get something that I may already have gotten or do not need or want. Something that I would have to try and sell In-Game just to compensate for my lose of that Extra Fee.

 

I personally chose to stay a subscriber so that I did not have to Pay each time I wanted to do something in the game or to use what used to be considered a basic feature in a game. I wanted access to these things just by paying my Monthly Fee.

Sadly though you all seem to think that "Species" and "The Look of a Character" is something that is not a Basic Feature and should be purchased at an Extra Cost.

 

As for the Look of the Character. I can understand purchasing things like Tattoos or Jewelry and even a really Crazy Haircut. But I do not consider that being done at an Extra cost of Real Money or some Allotment of Cartel Coins. It should be something In-Game just like the Skill ReSpec. Something that uses In-Game Credits. There should be a Vendor or even a Shop somewhere in the game. In fact it should be placed in a few places in the game. Maybe even where you would have to go out of your way to travel to certain planets for certain styles. That would be a lot more like real content than just purchasing, with Real Money or an Allotment off the Cartel Market as an Extra Fee. It should be done with In-Game Credits as a Basic Feature

 

As for Species. I can understand you all wanting to charge extra for some Aspects of the game but definitely not Species. Subscribers should not have to use the Cartel Market in order to make a certain Species of character. I was expecting the Cathar to be part of the upcoming Expansion. Nothing more nothing less. Like it usually is with most MMO's. Now I hear that we are going to have to Purchase it at an extra. I hope that is wrong. I was looking forward to making a new Cathar Character but as a Subscriber if I have to pay Extra for it then I guess I will not be making one. Heck that actually turns me off from playing the game.

 

 

You know we all knew that it would cost more to play on a F2P model if you wanted to do everything. That was just common practice. Which is why many of us decided to stay on a Subscription. But seeing how you all are making common things that are normally part of a Subscription only accessible on the F2P Market only makes things worse. Purchasing a new Expansion yet you have to pay extra on top of that for the new Species, and you have to pay extra through the Cartel Market every time you decide you want to change the physical look of your character. That is just depressing and boggles the mind when trying to see what you all are thinking. You are basically putting yourselves out there as a company that wants to get as much money from your customers as possible with the less possible content as possible, without caring about what they think. The F2P Models already increases the cost of playing a game, now you want to take away things from the game that are considered basic and common. To lessen the Content of Expansions.

 

You know I normally do not Complain or Rant about things often. Basically do to knowing that most things are creative design on the companies part and about profit of business. But there are times that I just have to say something. This is one of those times. I really disagree with your choices here. I disagree here on your choices just as much as having a Kill Cam in BF. Yet not as much as much as you all choosing to make the Space Feature a Rail Shooter, but it is very close.

 

I really hope you all think about changing these things. Of coarse based on your track record so I guess I will continue to be disappointed. After all we have been complaining about the Space Feature since it was first presented. So expecting you all to change things is like a lost cause. Some companies just Depress more than they Impress. To me BioWare is starting to be one of those Companies.

 

God I am sad now. I was going to start up the game and play a bit. Now I guess I'll just do something else as I do not feel like playing it. They really know how to put people off when releasing new info.

[Emencie]

Which is precisely the issue.

 

As I stated before, BioWare needs to clarify as this is getting pretty inane.

 

To reiterate: I think someone at BioWare really needs to step in here and clarify:

 

A) That this feature is a complete character recustomization, not a "barber shop."

 

B) If there is a proper "barber shop" coming down the pipeline.

 

A lot of MMOs provide both services: character recustomizations (altering species, body type, skin colours, etc. - core features) are usually paid for, while the minor changes (such as hair style/colour, scarring, minor features) are made available free of monetary charge and use the in-game currency.

 

There is a lot of confusion here since BioWare hasn't distinguished between the two. That distinction is needed.

 

And: Methinks they just do not realize the importance of minor alterations vs. major ones and thought they'd simply take out two birds with one stone, so to speak. Unfortunately, tying those minor ones in with the major creates a lot of problems, particularly when you are asking people to shell out real cash to add a scar or to cut their hair.

 

Species change? Sure, charge cash. Skin colour/body type? Again, charge away. But when these changes are something that should be "in-universe" and are plausible within the confines of this universe, we should be able to make those changes using the currency of that universe.

And I’m happy to announce that we’ll be introducing several new features along the way, like a new customization feature, which will allow you to change your character's hair style, eye color, body type, or even species (including the upcoming Cathar!) using Cartel Coins. Look for it in early summer.

 

They didnt call it Barbershop we did. The answer to your questions are right there.

 

A. It is a complete recustomization of character The only thing left to question there is can you change Sex/Class (I highly doubt class)

 

B. No. There was no word on a just change your hairstyle option at all. No BW poster said anything about changing just hair... or a scar or a "Proper Barbershop" And really... does it matter? You can change everything about your character from the smallest to the largest changes 1 item does both.

 

And has there been anything that you cannot sell from the Cartel market to others for credits? If you don't want to spend real money you can just buy it off the GTN. You understand that with the majority of players being free to play they have to make money someway right? Get it through your heads everything cosmetic will be sold in the CM. Non cosmetic upgrades will not. EricMusco outright said this.

[Lent_San]

The tell that this was coming was when they had the temerity to declair that everything in the CM Store was "content". But, anything for a buck, right?

 

Indeed.

[DaRoamer]

You keep mentioning GW2 but GW2 you can also earn Gems in-game that is used to do this. Does TOR have an in-game way to earn coins? If so, then tell us how then you can use GW2 as an example.

 

Yes, in 2.0 you will get coins for achievements.

 

Secondly, where do think the gems come from that you buy with gold in GW2? Other people buy gems with real money and put them on the trader in exchange for gold, and although the trade is not a direct "you buy my gems for 100 gold" exchange that is basically what is happening. This is exactly the same as people buying an item off the cartel market and selling it for credits on the GTN.

[CelCawdro]

And I’m happy to announce that we’ll be introducing several new features along the way, like a new customization feature, which will allow you to change your character's hair style, eye color, body type, or even species (including the upcoming Cathar!) using Cartel Coins. Look for it in early summer.

 

They didnt call it Barbershop we did. The answer to your questions are right there.

 

A. It is a complete recustomization of character The only thing left to question there is can you change Sex/Class (I highly doubt class)

 

B. No. There was no word on a just change your hairstyle option at all. No BW poster said anything about changing just hair... or a scar or a "Proper Barbershop" And really... does it matter? You can change everything about your character from the smallest to the largest changes 1 item does both.

 

And has there been anything that you cannot sell from the Cartel market to others for credits? If you don't want to spend real money you can just buy it off the GTN. You understand that with the majority of players being free to play they have to make money someway right? Get it through your heads everything cosmetic will be sold in the CM. Non cosmetic upgrades will not. EricMusco outright said this.

 

Hence clarification asking for. As stated above, things are being misconstrued and misrepresented. But the misunderstands will only grow until clarification is provided.

[Urael]

As a subscriber, I have yet to use any of my Monthly Cartel Coins that I am granted. Nothing that is in the Cartel Market appeals to me yet, to spend these Coins on them.

 

8< [ Snipped for space ] >8

 

They really know how to put people off when releasing new info.

 

I agree with everthing you wrote. Well said.

[Lent_San]

Yes, in 2.0 you will get coins for achievements.

In LOTRO, you also get coins for achievements. Their barber shop is still through in-game currency.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

not to white knight, buuuut

 

the barbershop item might be on the GTN

 

It might but the impression Eric's two posts gave is that it will be Bind on Pickup. There have been other posts that they have said CM or GTN but he stressed CM only this time.

[DaRoamer]

To you. This is your opinion, not a fact. I'd counter argue that to an RPer, the ability to change looks is most certainly a CORE function of their play style. What you consider 'fluff', others consider content.

 

By that definition all the cosmetic items on cartel market are content. If you want to complain that the cartel market shouldn't exist at all in that case because it contains core content for RPers then I suggest starting a new thread.

[Lent_San]

By that definition all the cosmetic items on cartel market are content. If you want to complain that the cartel market shouldn't exist at all in that case because it contains core content for RPers then I suggest starting a new thread.

 

Since when is a barber shop a "cosmetic item". My goodness...............

[DaRoamer]

In LOTRO, you also get coins for achievements. Their barber shop is still through in-game currency.

 

Great. Can I buy a mount off the LOTRO store and sell it in game for gold?

 

Since when is a barber shop a "cosmetic item". My goodness...............

 

Is this a real question? Since when is a hair style cosmetic?

Edited March 22, 2013 by DaRoamer

[Lent_San]

Great. Can I buy a mount off the LOTRO store and sell it in game for gold?

 

No, because it's a crappy idea and ruins the in-game economy, as proven by SWTOR. Whoever came up with that idea should be fired, if he/she isn't already.

[Kubernetic]

Note: my response is not directed at Kubernetic, I am just quoting him as a launch point for comment.

 

This thread is run amuck.. and exemplifies how hyperbolic a segment of the forum gets at every element of future content that is discussed or presented before it goes live. Seriously... you guys really have outdone yourselfs with how far down the rat hole you can take forum opinion about the game on YET TO BE RELEASED content.

 

Let's step back for a moment and actually look at waht was said by Jeff H. in the state of the game blog:

 

 

 

Let's disect this and take it point by point....

 

1) "we will be introducing several new features"..... (you folks demand to know what is coming, but everytime they say ANYTHING, you attack it like a pack of wolves on a rabbit carcas)

 

2) "like a new customization feature"... (not a BARBERSHOP... a new full feature to allow character customization including species change, NOT just haircuts!)

 

3) Said feature will allow you to "change character features.... even species, including Cathar" (so.. they have a methodology coming to provide a much asked for feature in the game.... character appearance features change. You guys have been crying for this since day 1... and guess what.. they have been listening)

 

4) The method with which it will be introduced will be "via the Cartel Market". (Now I get that there is a bias against the cartel market for some players... but is it really necessary to slaughter every new piece of info and declare it a stab in the back to subscribers?? Really?? Are you that immature??) Guess what... you get it all for free when you create a character. Subsequent to character creation you must purchase the ability with the FREE currency you get as a subscriber (you don't even have to spend hard earned credits... you can use your free faux-currency given to you for simply showing up in game as a subscriber).

 

5) They have said absolutely NOTHING yet as to how many coins said feature will cost, NOR exactly how it will be presented (ie: flat fee, partial-fees for just partial changes, etc. (AND YET... here we go... everyone is conflating and projecting how expensive it is going to be... yada yada.) And let's not forget that as a subscriber, you receive free coins each month to use to access premium content like this for FREE, while non-subscribers will have to actualy purchase coins with real money to get the same access you get for FREE.

 

Here's a thought.... how about letting to of all the projection, doomsday, and catastrophe-speak until they actually announce details. You know... so that you have actual details to attack rather then fictional details invented in your mind.

 

inb4: someone says "but, but, we have to protest now before it's too late to get it changed....RAWR!!!" PROTIP: Bioware has a fairly good track record of listening to player feedback on new feature release and actually adjusting them to address feedback. Work with facts, and provide fact driven feedback and I'm sure they will listen. Continue with hyperbolic fantasy driven windmills to tilt at and you get nowhere. They have not given you enough facts to get righteously all pitch-forky yet.

 

/2-cents

 

I know you weren't addressing me, so this isn't like a personal response, but after having typed out what you have here, surely you realize that they have mentioned NOTHING outside of what was ALREADY present in the initial customization routine at the beginning of the game?

 

If they release this and the customization now allows you to do things like changing facial features, sliding the nose up and down a little, making the nose wider, widening the bridge of the nose, adjusting eye height and distance apart, maybe size of cheeks, types of eyebrows, along with customized body dials or sliders, that let you change arm length, thicknesses, musculatures and so forth, then I'm all about praising this new system, and will gladly pay coins to do it.

 

If, after 15+ months of live production, with all of the requests for more customization of characters, all they're offering is just to send us once more to that initial screen where we can simply change the things they've already built, then I stand by my assessment... asking us to pay real money for that is a pathetic request.

 

I don't think I was being hyperbolic or overly dramatic. Yes, I'm speculating, but I'm speculating based on what was actually said. Now if he wants to keep the surprise and pop that on Monday, or sometime soon or when it launches, then AWESOME. I couldn't be happier.

 

If he said what he said because that's all there is really, and he's accurately describing it, I don't think my reaciion was excessive in the slightest.

[AlienEyeTX]

It might but the impression Eric's two posts gave is that it will be Bind on Pickup. There have been other posts that they have said CM or GTN but he stressed CM only this time.

 

We simply don't know exactly how it will be implemented. I'd suggest everyone hold off on speculation until we know more, but that would a completely futile request.

 

People will argue this ad nauseum, but only the BW employees have the real facts.

[TUXs]

By that definition all the cosmetic items on cartel market are content. If you want to complain that the cartel market shouldn't exist at all in that case because it contains core content for RPers then I suggest starting a new thread.

 

To an extent that's true. I'm glad you understand, and agree, that it's not all just "fluff" and it is CORE content to some playstyles...oh, and a playstyle that Bioware caters too so much, they have their own servers!

[DaRoamer]

No, because it's a crappy idea and ruins the in-game economy, as proven by SWTOR. Whoever came up with that idea should be fired, if he/she isn't already.

 

Respectfully disagree. I still sell many crafted items daily as an armormech. I use that money to buy cartel items with credits. It's a great system. This system will allow me to buy cosmetic thing like changing my appearance with nothing but credits I earn by playing the game. It was a great idea and kudos to BW for implementing it.

[Urael]

By that definition all the cosmetic items on cartel market are content. If you want to complain that the cartel market shouldn't exist at all in that case because it contains core content for RPers then I suggest starting a new thread.

 

EA has stated as much. They have said that EVERYTHING in the CM store is considered as content by them. Where have you been? That is the problem. They "redefine terms" to fit their whim. We all know that a new "shell" isn't content. But to EA it is just that.

[Lent_San]

Respectfully disagree. I still sell many crafted items daily as an armormech. I use that money to buy cartel items with credits. It's a great system. This system will allow me to buy cosmetic thing like changing my appearance with nothing but credits I earn by playing the game. It was a great idea and kudos to BW for implementing it.

 

It was a crappy idea. Prices on the GTN went from bad to crazy to hilarious. Whoever thought of that should be fired or be sent back to "How to create a healthy in-game economy in MMOs" class 101.

 

They most certainly failed that one.

[Andryah]

Hence clarification asking for. As stated above, things are being misconstrued and misrepresented. But the misunderstands will only grow until clarification is provided.

 

The misunderstandings will continue, in spite of any clarifications... because it's more dramatic that way and gives a soap box for all the cartel coin haters. It will continue regardless of comment by Bioware staff, until something more drama worthy comes along in the forums... which generally takes less then a week in our short attention span theater of operations.

[kodrac]

EA has stated as much. They have said that EVERYTHING in the CM store is considered as content by them. Where have you been? That is the problem. They "redefine terms" to fit their whim. We all know that a new "shell" isn't content. But to EA it is just that.

 

Why are you still here?

[Andryah]

EA has stated as much. They have said that EVERYTHING in the CM store is considered as content by them. Where have you been? That is the problem. They "redefine terms" to fit their whim. We all know that a new "shell" isn't content. But to EA it is just that.

 

Provide the quote, end all doubt.

 

Oh wait.. you cleverly inserted the ever popular "as much" as your validator. I see what you did there.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Andryah

[CelCawdro]

The misunderstandings will continue, in spite of any clarifications... because it's more dramatic that way and gives a soap box for all the cartel coin haters. It will continue regardless of comment by Bioware staff, until something more drama worthy comes along in the forums... which generally takes less then a week in our short attention span theater of operations.

 

People are simply having a hard time with grouping a simple haircut in the same system as a species swap. Perceptions of the type of system they are implementing exist, and they need to be addressed.

[Andryah]

People are simply having a hard time with grouping a simple haircut in the same system as a species swap. Perceptions of the type of system they are implementing exist, and they need to be addressed.

 

The last year in these forums though has proven that the only thing that quells the mis-perceptions is the actual patch release... where most people go... "oh, OK... that's not near as bad as I feared it would be, I'll look foolish if I keep beating that dead horse, which turned out to be a mouse" and then they run off to find a comment by Bioware to put pen to their next drama.

 

I do feel however that we need to give due credit... some of the dramatic portrayals in the forums are oscar worthy at times. Dama not needing to be in any way factual.. really helps the performance.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Andryah

[xxpcwizardxx]

Character recustomization has always been a paid service in mmo games and using cartel coins is just a method of payment

 

Its not barbore shop its a cosmetic cergon so changing even spieces is realisic

 

So i say to u people stop trying to find fault with every little thing that changes in this game, it would take alot of script writing and hard work to make this process possible so just be greatful

[Lent_San]

So i say to u people stop trying to find fault with every little thing that changes in this game, it would take alot of script writing and hard work to make this process possible so just be greatful

Grateful to have to pay for it? Seriously?