DarthZak Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Eric and co, I know you guys just arrived at work but there needs to be an open discussion about this between loyal fans of the game and the developers and more specific, the guy who made this call. EA/BW has an excellent option here to show that they really care and its up to your management to take it or not We've suggested several alternatives to choose from that would both increase QoL and still make money, are they good enough to satisfy? If not, why not? Id like a yellow reply for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinderBane Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer. We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market. As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback. -eric As someone else pointed out, this is pure spin. If I want spin like this I'll turn on the news during an election year. I am also seeing a very nasty trend with the Cartel Market, and that trend is simple: more and more features specifically targetting Subscribers in addition to the F2Players. The monthly Coin grant is so low and the market pricing for most purchases so high that your explanation falls flat on its face, and is actually a little offensive. We are your subscription-based players and we are not that stupid. I don't like where things are headed if you continue to treat us like we are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara_Zyras Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Personally i dont really care if you can pay with cartel coins, it means people wont be changing appearance 24/7 which will be better for RP servers. On that note I hope with the ability to change appearance and hairstyles etc we can maybe look forward to some new hair style additions and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saremun Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Personally i dont really care if you can pay with cartel coins, it means people wont be changing appearance 24/7 which will be better for RP servers. On that note I hope with the ability to change appearance and hairstyles etc we can maybe look forward to some new hair style additions and so on. hehehe, all what the RP people need is a bunch of Emots to live in the wonder world, they don't care about the rest of the game as long they can keep pretending lol. funny RP people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilephor Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Normally I just keep my mouth shut and lurk but I have to say you all could take a page from LOTRO, the only other MMO I am familiar with in this instance. Their barber shop allows you to change simple things like beard, hair color and style, eyebrows, and some other things for in game credits, not turbine points. In speaking to SWTOR it should follow the same flow simple changes to your character should be for in game credits, now if you want to change race or advance class or something that should be cartel coins. The cartel coin stipend is for us subscribing to the game, not for you to take back nickel and diming players with this barber shop idea. I would advise seriously rethinking how you plan to implement it, I will never use it, if you make it cartel coin based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lent_San Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I would advise seriously rethinking how you plan to implement it, I will never use it, if you make it cartel coin based. Me neither. I wasn't even averse to the CM at first, but seeing how they now put anything and everything on the CM, I decided I'm not gonna use it anymore. They totally, fully put me off of using or paying for any of it. Too bad. I would have liked a barber shop option in the game, but as things stand now, won't be using it. Edited March 22, 2013 by Lent_San Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetheous Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 This cartel market is sure making a ton of profit for EA/Bioware but its becomming a joke now so for being a loyal subscriber since day one i can no longer look forward to anything being upgraded for free like all other sub games i play or played content is slow to come out and calling 1 planet an expansion is a joke Rift trebled the size of there game with expansion wow add a huge ton of stuff each expansion . I dont want everything free of course the games subs were not turning much profit alone and i buy cartel coins at a rapid rate (already got my eclipse mount) . But i also want to see stuff included for free now and again content quests new gear ect. the Cathar should come with the expansion as all other sub games ive mentioned have done . If you wont allow us this basic game stuff then at least up our stipend so subs can cover buying the Cathar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShallowBay Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 What's bothering me almost as much as this feature being on the cartel market is the fact that you can change your species mid-game. What happened to a cohesive story experience? This just seems like pandering to people to spend cartel points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lent_San Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) What happened to a cohesive story experience? This just seems like pandering to people to spend cartel points. This is exactly what it is. They're not even trying to cover it up. Edited March 22, 2013 by Lent_San Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacklynx Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 This is really a stupid idea, i'm all in favor of a barbershop (been asking for it since beta) but using cartel coins? That's going too far. Put new hairstyles, makeup, faces in the cartelmarket, that's perfectly aceptable, but the barbershop MUST USE INGAME CURRENCY. Anything else is a slap on the face of subscribers and players that want to use it. On another note i'm also against changing you race and gender in the barbershop, the story catters to these so they should not be made available. I'm starting to loose heart in this mmo, and i doubt the tiny dlc planet coming is going to change that. What a wasted potencial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantazm Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Is anyone surprised? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Normally I just keep my mouth shut and lurk but I have to say you all could take a page from LOTRO, the only other MMO I am familiar with in this instance. Their barber shop allows you to change simple things like beard, hair color and style, eyebrows, and some other things for in game credits, not turbine points. In speaking to SWTOR it should follow the same flow simple changes to your character should be for in game credits, now if you want to change race or advance class or something that should be cartel coins. The cartel coin stipend is for us subscribing to the game, not for you to take back nickel and diming players with this barber shop idea. I would advise seriously rethinking how you plan to implement it, I will never use it, if you make it cartel coin based. Agree 100% once again they are going against what most other games and the industry standard have set, in the end greed will be their undoing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediumD Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 What's bothering me almost as much as this feature being on the cartel market is the fact that you can change your species mid-game. It doesn't affect you in any way, so who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lent_San Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 This is really a stupid idea, i'm all in favor of a barbershop (been asking for it since beta) but using cartel coins? That's going too far. Put new hairstyles, makeup, faces in the cartelmarket, that's perfectly aceptable, but the barbershop MUST USE INGAME CURRENCY. Anything else is a slap on the face of subscribers and players that want to use it. On another note i'm also against changing you race and gender in the barbershop, the story catters to these so they should not be made available. I'm starting to loose heart in this mmo, and i doubt the tiny dlc planet coming is going to change that. What a wasted potencial. Sums it up perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 This is really a stupid idea, i'm all in favor of a barbershop (been asking for it since beta) but using cartel coins? That's going too far. Put new hairstyles, makeup, faces in the cartelmarket, that's perfectly aceptable, but the barbershop MUST USE INGAME CURRENCY. Anything else is a slap on the face of subscribers and players that want to use it. On another note i'm also against changing you race and gender in the barbershop, the story catters to these so they should not be made available. I'm starting to loose heart in this mmo, and i doubt the tiny dlc planet coming is going to change that. What a wasted potencial. Exactly. I wonder if Eric meant new options in the CM and just didn't put it over too well. I am still floored by this Pay-Per-Visit with real money idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Its nice to know that instead of our $15 going towards something that we have been asking for since the beginning, it goes towards making content that they can sell back to us. Splendid. And why are the doing that? Please stop pretending that the game was not on the way to become a massive financial failure after the subscriber base massively broke away 3-4 months after launch. Heck, on my server there were less than 20 people on the fleet at primetime at this time. There was not a single wz taking place all day for weeks. And massive financial failure translates into "no more game development" and "server shutdowns" pretty easily. F2P combined with the CM have apparently turned things around. Or do you think WOW would still be around and supoprted by expansions if they would nor make good money out of it? Same goes for any other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choffware Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 don't you get free cartel coins every month? I don't get why people are complaining about the CM. As long as the feature are cosmetic it doesn't matter for gameplay. And if there is something you really want on the CM just wait a few months and you'll have the coins for doing nothing buy paying your sub. I can understand that arguments related to the cost of CM items (or our monthly rations) but to complain about CM exclusive items is unfair to subs is just silly. The CM is there mostly for people who don't play the game. Just save up your coins and you can get what ever you want on the CM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutall Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 It may not seem like it but a barber shop IS basic content. I can see paying real money for species and MAYBE even body size changes but as for the rest (ex: hair style, tattoos etc.) that's all basic things that should be able to be changed using ingame currency (credits). i agree alot of mmo got barbershop and you dont need to spend real life money on it! this is basic stuff that makes the swtor wold more fun and every one should be able to use it, with out spending real life cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I think someone at BioWare really needs to step in here and clarify: A) That this feature is a complete character recustomization, not a "barber shop." B) If there is a proper "barber shop" coming down the pipeline. A lot of MMOs provide both services: character recustomizations (altering species, body type, skin colours, etc. - core features) are usually paid for, while the minor changes (such as hair style/colour, scarring, minor features) are made available free of monetary charge and use the in-game currency. There is a lot of confusion here since BioWare hasn't distinguished between the two. That distinction is needed. Edited March 22, 2013 by CelCawdro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 don't you get free cartel coins every month? I don't get why people are complaining about the CM. As long as the feature are cosmetic it doesn't matter for gameplay. And if there is something you really want on the CM just wait a few months and you'll have the coins for doing nothing buy paying your sub. I can understand that arguments related to the cost of CM items (or our monthly rations) but to complain about CM exclusive items is unfair to subs is just silly. The CM is there mostly for people who don't play the game. Just save up your coins and you can get what ever you want on the CM If you bothered to read the thread then several arguments against using the stipend have already been made A short version is: The stipend is to reward loyal customers. They (BW) then proceeded to say "The stipend is to be used for this" The problem here is that it is a core function of any MMO and none charge real life money for changing your hair. So this adds up to them expecting you to use your reward for a basic component of an MMO So no, using your stipend for this sort of stuff is not ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 So no, using your stipend for this sort of stuff is not ok A small correction, if I may be so bold. Using the stipend on this would indeed be okay - being told to use it on this isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzii Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The issue with the barber shop doesnt really affect me, as i like the way my toons look, but i'm starting to wonder why i'm paying a subscription. Where is the value of my $15/month? Its not like they are releasing new WZs on a regular basis. They patch every other month or so. A compromise and the intelligent thing to do is to put new content on both the CM and allow to buy for in-game coins, like they do for some of the legacy perks, storage, etc. This looks nothing like a money grab now. Time to start looking around for a new MMO i guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I think someone at BioWare really needs to step in here and clarify: A) That his feature is a complete character recustomization, not a "barber shop." B) If there is a proper "barber shop" coming down the pipeline. A lot of MMOs provide both services: character recustomizations (altering species, body type, skin colours, etc. - core features) are usually paid for, while the minor changes (such as hair style/colour, scarring, minor features) are made available free of monetary charge and use the in-game currency. There is a lot of confusion here since BioWare hasn't distinguished between the two. That distinction is needed. They either dont care about this thread and our opinions and hope it goes away or they actually listened and are meeting now to change it to one of the several suggestions BW just so you know I dont mind waiting a month or 2 extra if you need to come up with a new system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darhul Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I have to agree with most posts here. Barber shop available only in CM is another slap in the face for subscribers. You are saying, that we are getting monthly CC to spend them on it, then you can take away our ops/wz access and say the same thing. You keep putting more stuff in CM, you are doing it with rapid rate and you said you will introduce more like this.. but our monthly CC grant (poor compared to CM stuff) is not changing. I am just asking why I am paying subscription? We should get something more and extra then F2P. If new player start this game as F2P, he should want to be subscriber for some reason, but you are just not giving him any. I like the idea of basic changes like hair style, eyes color, tatoos... being paid by credits and bigger changes by CC. I know you are not charity and you are doing this game for money, like we all have jobs I don't mind the CM, but please listen to us players like you are always saying you do and don't put everything in there, give us subscribers something. Something that shows us, that our subscription isn't a waste and is here some reason to keep paying it. I love this game, playing it since early access and hopefully I will continue for a long time. So listen to players BW/EA, you are not making players happy. (sorry for my English) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZak Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 A small correction, if I may be so bold. Using the stipend on this would indeed be okay - being told to use it on this isn't. Correct you are, thank you ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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