Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

[CelCawdro]

They either dont care about this thread and our opinions and hope it goes away or they actually listened and are meeting now to change it to one of the several suggestions

 

BW just so you know I dont mind waiting a month or 2 extra if you need to come up with a new system

 

Methinks they just do not realize the importance of minor alterations vs. major ones and thought they'd simply take out two birds with one stone, so to speak. Unfortunately, tying those minor ones in with the major creates a lot of problems, particularly when you are asking people to shell out real cash to add a scar or to cut their hair.

 

Species change? Sure, charge cash. Skin colour/body type? Again, charge away. But when these changes are something that should be "in-universe" and are plausible within the confines of this universe, we should be able to make those changes using the currency of that universe.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

People throw up games they think charge for every change. Most get proven wrong. But one thing all those games have in common as well is a better CC. Not just 4 body types and a few presets. But you can go into details at a lot greater detail than TOR offers at creation. And they still do in-game barber shop.

[Quraswren]

Methinks they just do not realize the importance of minor alterations vs. major ones and thought they'd simply take out two birds with one stone, so to speak. Unfortunately, tying those minor ones in with the major creates a lot of problems, particularly when you are asking people to shell out real cash to add a scar or to cut their hair.

 

Species change? Sure, charge cash. Skin colour/body type? Again, charge away. But when these changes are something that should be "in-universe" and are plausible within the confines of this universe, we should be able to make those changes using the currency of that universe.

 

Agreed...

 

Good post but I fear the design of the cartel market and the direction bioware is going with it will not agree.

[kevlarto]

I have to agree with most posts here. Barber shop available only in CM is another slap in the face for subscribers. You are saying, that we are getting monthly CC to spend them on it, then you can take away our ops/wz access and say the same thing. You keep putting more stuff in CM, you are doing it with rapid rate and you said you will introduce more like this.. but our monthly CC grant (poor compared to CM stuff) is not changing. I am just asking why I am paying subscription? We should get something more and extra then F2P. If new player start this game as F2P, he should want to be subscriber for some reason, but you are just not giving him any.

I like the idea of basic changes like hair style, eyes color, tatoos... being paid by credits and bigger changes by CC.

I know you are not charity and you are doing this game for money, like we all have jobs I don't mind the CM, but please listen to us players like you are always saying you do and don't put everything in there, give us subscribers something. Something that shows us, that our subscription isn't a waste and is here some reason to keep paying it.

I love this game, playing it since early access and hopefully I will continue for a long time. So listen to players BW/EA, you are not making players happy.

(sorry for my English)

 

I agree, I would not be surprised if they don't add new warzones, operations, or flashpoints at some time and require everyone including subbed player to by a pass to play them, looks like that's where they are headed, they keep adding to the cartel store and nothing to the game play, /sigh

Edited March 22, 2013 by kevlarto

[ARCCommanderDan]

If they just charge 50-100CC then I'll be happy, but anything over would be too expensive...but I do agree that they should just charge for a species change. If you're just going to change your face and other facial features it shouldn't cost anything. Now they could also do something where they charge you CC depending on how much changes you make to your character...like if you're going to change the body type, all facial features, and species then you need to pay CC. But if you're only going to change your character's head type and eyes it should cost nothing.

[Soulwave]

In the future swtor is going to make historie as the most expensive game to play. Seriously, the cartel market is gonna be the death of this game one day. if you keep it up. They are taking advantage of people's love for starwars. Dont go overboard EAware!

[Jacen_Starsolo]

In the future swtor is going to make historie as the most expensive game to play. Seriously, the cartel market is gonna be the death of this game one day. if you keep it up. They are taking advantage of people's love for starwars. Dont go overboard EAware!

 

If how Eric said it goes live, then too late. TOR has jumped the shark. Still he might have not clearly stated it and we've got it wrong how he intended. It's the only hope.

[Prysha]

Like the title says I'm a little disappointed about the new sort-of "ingame barber shop". There are several reasons why but first I'm going to put the quote from the "State of the Game #3" here.

 

 

 

While I first read it I was like "Great! That is awesome!" But then I took a closer look. "...using Cartel Coins." To me this seems like too much. But first lets talk about the species change. To me that shouldn't happen because it isn't "realistic" but I found that it could be ok. The other things like hair, body, and eye color was all fine. But why with CC? This game is turning into "Your a sub but you have to pay MORE real money for basic features like a barber shop!" I could understand the species thing being in the CM, but ALL of the barber shop?! That is going too far. What next? Having to pay money for certain class abilities in the CM? Whether you think so or not barber shops ARE basic features. Personally I think they should've been ingame since launch. But why do we, the players, have to pay MORE money to you for a basic feature?

 

I think that they should change this before they release it. BW should either take out species changing or leave it in the CM... BUT make the rest of the "Barber Shop" not cost CC. Make it ingame currency. If they don't I'm not sure how much more I can take.

 

Edit: I'd like to take the time to thank Bioware for *atleast* responding to this thread and posting it on the Community Roundup for other people to see, talk about and state their opinions.

 

I totally agree with you !!!

 

This game is turning into "Your a sub but you have to pay MORE real money for basic features like a barber shop!"

[Kubernetic]

Unless they expand the character creation (upcoming shop) then they may as well not even release it. Right now we are stuck with a stupidly limited system. Four body types, no adjustments can be made. No adjustments for facial features. You select a preset and thats it. Most hairstyles suck. Some species are even more limited. Zabraks should be able to choose their headbone formations seperate from their hair, uet they cannot. Twi'leks should be able to choose their marking design and color separate from their facial cosmetics, yet they cannot. Twis should also have a much broader range of skin colors, but they don't.

 

This, but without the red.

 

If we're going to be paying REAL money for this barbershop.... there better be a lot more facial features coming on board. We better be able to start actually CUSTOMIZING our characters, not selecting from the 12-30 presets which leave us "meeting ourselves" over and over and over again in our story lines and game play because we've got the EXACT same faces.

 

If they're just going to charge us money to send us back to the same customization console at the beginning of the game, how absolutely pathetic that would be...

Edited March 22, 2013 by Kubernetic

[Lent_San]

If they're just going to charge us money to send us back to the same customization console at the beginning of the game, how absolutely pathetic that would be...

 

I wouldn't put it past them.

[Andryah]

If we're going to be paying REAL money for this barbershop.... there better be a lot more facial features coming on board. We better be able to start actually CUSTOMIZING our characters, not selecting from the 12-30 presets which leave us "meeting ourselves" over and over and over again in our story lines and game play because we've got the EXACT same faces.

 

Note: my response is not directed at Kubernetic, I am just quoting him as a launch point for comment.

 

This thread is run amuck.. and exemplifies how hyperbolic a segment of the forum gets at every element of future content that is discussed or presented before it goes live. Seriously... you guys really have outdone yourselfs with how far down the rat hole you can take forum opinion about the game on YET TO BE RELEASED content.

 

Let's step back for a moment and actually look at waht was said by Jeff H. in the state of the game blog:

 

we’ll be introducing several new features along the way, like a new customization feature, which will allow you to change your character's hair style, eye color, body type, or even species (including the upcoming Cathar!) using Cartel Coins.

 

Let's disect this and take it point by point....

 

1) "we will be introducing several new features"..... (you folks demand to know what is coming, but everytime they say ANYTHING, you attack it like a pack of wolves on a rabbit carcas)

 

2) "like a new customization feature"... (not a BARBERSHOP... a new full feature to allow character customization including species change, NOT just haircuts!)

 

3) Said feature will allow you to "change character features.... even species, including Cathar" (so.. they have a methodology coming to provide a much asked for feature in the game.... character appearance features change. You guys have been crying for this since day 1... and guess what.. they have been listening)

 

4) The method with which it will be introduced will be "via the Cartel Market". (Now I get that there is a bias against the cartel market for some players... but is it really necessary to slaughter every new piece of info and declare it a stab in the back to subscribers?? Really?? Are you that immature??) Guess what... you get it all for free when you create a character. Subsequent to character creation you must purchase the ability with the FREE currency you get as a subscriber (you don't even have to spend hard earned credits... you can use your free faux-currency given to you for simply showing up in game as a subscriber).

 

5) They have said absolutely NOTHING yet as to how many coins said feature will cost, NOR exactly how it will be presented (ie: flat fee, partial-fees for just partial changes, etc. (AND YET... here we go... everyone is conflating and projecting how expensive it is going to be... yada yada.) And let's not forget that as a subscriber, you receive free coins each month to use to access premium content like this for FREE, while non-subscribers will have to actualy purchase coins with real money to get the same access you get for FREE.

 

Here's a thought.... how about letting to of all the projection, doomsday, and catastrophe-speak until they actually announce details. You know... so that you have actual details to attack rather then fictional details invented in your mind.

 

inb4: someone says "but, but, we have to protest now before it's too late to get it changed....RAWR!!!" PROTIP: Bioware has a fairly good track record of listening to player feedback on new feature release and actually adjusting them to address feedback. Work with facts, and provide fact driven feedback and I'm sure they will listen. Continue with hyperbolic fantasy driven windmills to tilt at and you get nowhere. They have not given you enough facts to get righteously all pitch-forky yet.

 

/2-cents

Edited March 22, 2013 by Andryah

[Quraswren]

I wouldn't put it past them.

 

Me either.

 

The only thing that would really shock me now is if something came out and didn't have a "$" in front of it's access.

[Urael]

Already did, but the amount of a lost subscription apparently isn't as loud as the amount people are spending on cartel packs.

 

 

^Sooooooooooooooo Much This!

 

As long as there are sheep to be shorn EA will fleece them. As far as EA is concerned there will always be more new sheep to sheer so if they loose a few now there will be more to replace them. They don't have to care about their current flock because they can always replace it.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Urael

[Lent_San]

Me either.

The only thing that would really shock me now is if something came out and didn't have a "$" in front of it's access.

 

Indeed. Let's just declare all fun new additions "cosmetic". Bam, chargeable, right there.

 

It'll be interesting to see all this "quality of life" stuff Hickman mentioned pop up on the CM, probably in its own sweet little category.

[althene]

Note: my response is not directed at Kubernetic, I am just quoting him as a launch point for comment.

 

This thread is run amuck.. and exemplifies how hyperbolic a segment of the forum gets at every element of future content that is discussed or presented before it goes live. Seriously... you guys really have outdone yourselfs with how far down the rat hole you can take forum opinion about the game on YET TO BE RELEASED content.

 

Let's step back for a moment and actually look at waht was said by Jeff H. in the state of the game blog:

 

 

 

Let's disect this and take it point by point....

 

1) "we will be introducing several new features"..... (you folks demand to know what is coming, but everytime they say ANYTHING, you attack it like a pack of wolves on a rabbit carcas)

 

2) "like a new customization feature"... (not a BARBERSHOP... a new full feature to allow character customization including species change, NOT just haircuts!)

 

3) Said feature will allow you to "change character features.... even species, including Cathar" (so.. they have a methodology coming to provide a much asked for feature in the game.... character appearance features change. You guys have been crying for this since day 1... and guess what.. they have been listening)

 

4) The method with which it will be introduced will be "via the Cartel Market". (Now I get that there is a bias against the cartel market for some players... but is it really necessary to slaughter every new piece of info and declare it a stab in the back to subscribers?? Really?? Are you that immature??) Guess what... you get it all for free when you create a character. Subsequent to character creation you must purchase the ability with the FREE currency you get as a subscriber (you don't even have to spend hard earned credits... you can use your free faux-currency given to you for simply showing up in game as a subscriber).

 

5) They have said absolutely NOTHING yet as to how many coins said feature will cost, NOR exactly how it will be presented (ie: flat fee, partial-fees for just partial changes, etc. (AND YET... here we go... everyone is conflating and projecting how expensive it is going to be... yada yada.) And let's not forget that as a subscriber, you receive free coins each month to use to access premium content like this for FREE, while non-subscribers will have to actualy purchase coins with real money to get the same access you get for FREE.

 

Here's a thought.... how about letting to of all the projection, doomsday, and catastrophe-speak until they actually announce details. You know... so that you have actual details to attack rather then fictional details invented in your mind.

 

inb4: someone says "but, but, we have to protest now before it's too late to get it changed....RAWR!!!" PROTIP: Bioware has a fairly good track record of listening to player feedback on new feature release and actually adjusting them to address feedback. Work with facts, and provide fact driven feedback and I'm sure they will listen. Continue with hyperbolic fantasy driven windmills to tilt at and you get nowhere. They have not given you enough facts to get righteously all pitch-forky yet.

 

/2-cents

 

While I'm highly disappointed that they've chosen to monetize this system, I share your philosophy of "wait and see". I would have much preferred a hybrid system with a "barber shop" for credits and full blown makeover for (a small amount of) CC, but until it actually goes live, we can't say for sure that that's not exactly what they've done. If anything, we should be complaining about how vague they are about the system.

 

I do have one nitpick about your commentary, however. The monthly stipend of cartel coins is NOT free. You're paying 13 to 15 bucks a month for them. They ARE a bonus on top of all the other content you get as a subscriber, but they are decidedly not free.

Edited March 22, 2013 by althene

[Urael]

Indeed. Let's just declare all fun new additions "cosmetic". Bam, chargeable, right there.

 

It'll be interesting to see all this "quality of life" stuff Hickman mentioned pop up on the CM, probably in its own sweet little category.

 

The tell that this was coming was when they had the temerity to declair that everything in the CM Store was "content". But, anything for a buck, right?

 

 

Edited March 22, 2013 by Urael

[CelCawdro]

While I'm highly disappointed that they've chosen to monetize this system, I share your philosophy of "wait and see". I would have much preferred a hybrid system with a "barber shop" for credits and full blown makeover for (a small amount of) CC, but until it actually goes live, we can't say for sure that that's not exactly what they've done. If anything, we should be complaining about how vague they are about the system.

 

True enough. That being said, when a feature actually surfaces, Andy's tone tends to change to, "You knew about this feature since it was announced: why wait until it has actually been implemented to speak up about it? You didn't do anything about it when you had the chance, so just deal with it now."

 

We've been waiting and seeing for well over a year in release, and much longer than that if you consider beta builds (or just speculation from those who never got their invites). It's better to be extremely clear about what you would like to see as soon as possible rather than waiting for what can be an extremely flawed, or just misguided, system.

Edited March 22, 2013 by CelCawdro

[DaRoamer]

If you bothered to read the thread then several arguments against using the stipend have already been made

 

A short version is: The stipend is to reward loyal customers. They (BW) then proceeded to say "The stipend is to be used for this"

The problem here is that it is a core function of any MMO and none charge real life money for changing your hair.

So this adds up to them expecting you to use your reward for a basic component of an MMO

 

So no, using your stipend for this sort of stuff is not ok

 

Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff. TERA charges money for it. Guild Wars 2 charges money for it. Aion charges money for it.

 

You are given coins every month, it doesn't matter what you THINK they are for. They are FREE coins. If you don't want to spend your free coins then buy the appearance change with credits.

 

Really your arguments are not well thought out.

[shefflad]

Note: my response is not directed at Kubernetic, I am just quoting him as a launch point for comment.

 

This thread is run amuck.. and exemplifies how hyperbolic a segment of the forum gets at every element of future content that is discussed or presented before it goes live. Seriously... you guys really have outdone yourselfs with how far down the rat hole you can take forum opinion about the game on YET TO BE RELEASED content.

 

Let's step back for a moment and actually look at waht was said by Jeff H. in the state of the game blog:

 

 

 

Let's disect this and take it point by point....

 

1) "we will be introducing several new features"..... (you folks demand to know what is coming, but everytime they say ANYTHING, you attack it like a pack of wolves on a rabbit carcas)

 

2) "like a new customization feature"... (not a BARBERSHOP... a new full feature to allow character customization including species change, NOT just haircuts!)

 

3) Said feature will allow you to "change character features.... even species, including Cathar" (so.. they have a methodology coming to provide a much asked for feature in the game.... character appearance features change. You guys have been crying for this since day 1... and guess what.. they have been listening)

 

4) The method with which it will be introduced will be "via the Cartel Market". (Now I get that there is a bias against the cartel market for some players... but is it really necessary to slaughter every new piece of info and declare it a stab in the back to subscribers?? Really?? Are you that immature??) Guess what... you get it all for free when you create a character. Subsequent to character creation you must purchase the ability with the FREE currency you get as a subscriber (you don't even have to spend hard earned credits... you can use your free faux-currency given to you for simply showing up in game as a subscriber).

 

5) They have said absolutely NOTHING yet as to how many coins said feature will cost, NOR exactly how it will be presented (ie: flat fee, partial-fees for just partial changes, etc. (AND YET... here we go... everyone is conflating and projecting how expensive it is going to be... yada yada.) And let's not forget that as a subscriber, you receive free coins each month to use to access premium content like this for FREE, while non-subscribers will have to actualy purchase coins with real money to get the same access you get for FREE.

 

Here's a thought.... how about letting to of all the projection, doomsday, and catastrophe-speak until they actually announce details. You know... so that you have actual details to attack rather then fictional details invented in your mind.

 

inb4: someone says "but, but, we have to protest now before it's too late to get it changed....RAWR!!!" PROTIP: Bioware has a fairly good track record of listening to player feedback on new feature release and actually adjusting them to address feedback. Work with facts, and provide fact driven feedback and I'm sure they will listen. Continue with hyperbolic fantasy driven windmills to tilt at and you get nowhere. They have not given you enough facts to get righteously all pitch-forky yet.

 

/2-cents

 

Think most people are upset about it being for CC rather than in game currency. Which is one fact we do know as it as been stated in the state of the game.

 

I often use barbershops in other games and guess most people do. But like most people these are for small changes like hair styles etc which are mostly charged with in-game currency.

 

Now if when released you can pay for somethings with in-game money that's great. But as we call only go by whats been put out there is that its a CC only option.This post by Eric confirms that its a CC thing

 

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits.There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.

We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.

 

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

Edited March 22, 2013 by shefflad

[Emencie]

I'm glad BW is finally putting this in the game. It's nice to know they are listening to what we want, and while I would hate to see it not come out. After reading this thread I cant help but feel it would serve you people right if they just said "**** it, they don't want it" And pulled the whole thing.

 

Get used to it all cosmetics will be in the Cartel store.

 

Also as a side note most (if not every) games that have full 100% character recreation sells that in their item shop, or is a paid service. WoW's barbershop is not the same thing as full character recreation, Sex, race, Everything.

[CelCawdro]

I'm glad BW is finally putting this in the game. It's nice to know they are listening to what we want, and while I would hate to see it not come out. After reading this thread I cant help but feel it would serve you people right if they just said "**** it, they don't want it" And pulled the whole thing.

 

Get used to it all cosmetics will be in the Cartel store.

 

Also as a side note most (if not every) games that have full 100% character recreation sells that in their item shop, or is a paid service. WoW's barbershop is not the same thing as full character recreation, Sex, race, Everything.

 

Which is precisely the issue.

 

As I stated before, BioWare needs to clarify as this is getting pretty inane.

 

To reiterate: I think someone at BioWare really needs to step in here and clarify:

 

A) That this feature is a complete character recustomization, not a "barber shop."

 

B) If there is a proper "barber shop" coming down the pipeline.

 

A lot of MMOs provide both services: character recustomizations (altering species, body type, skin colours, etc. - core features) are usually paid for, while the minor changes (such as hair style/colour, scarring, minor features) are made available free of monetary charge and use the in-game currency.

 

There is a lot of confusion here since BioWare hasn't distinguished between the two. That distinction is needed.

 

And: Methinks they just do not realize the importance of minor alterations vs. major ones and thought they'd simply take out two birds with one stone, so to speak. Unfortunately, tying those minor ones in with the major creates a lot of problems, particularly when you are asking people to shell out real cash to add a scar or to cut their hair.

 

Species change? Sure, charge cash. Skin colour/body type? Again, charge away. But when these changes are something that should be "in-universe" and are plausible within the confines of this universe, we should be able to make those changes using the currency of that universe.

Edited March 22, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Andryah]

Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff. TERA charges money for it. Guild Wars 2 charges money for it. Aion charges money for it.

 

You are given coins every month, it doesn't matter what you THINK they are for. They are FREE coins. If you don't want to spend your free coins then buy the appearance change with credits.

 

Really your arguments are not well thought out.

 

/Agree

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff. TERA charges money for it. Guild Wars 2 charges money for it. Aion charges money for it.

 

You are given coins every month, it doesn't matter what you THINK they are for. They are FREE coins. If you don't want to spend your free coins then buy the appearance change with credits.

 

Really your arguments are not well thought out.

 

You keep mentioning GW2 but GW2 you can also earn Gems in-game that is used to do this. Does TOR have an in-game way to earn coins? If so, then tell us how then you can use GW2 as an example.

[astrobearx]

You keep mentioning GW2 but GW2 you can also earn Gems in-game that is used to do this. Does TOR have an in-game way to earn coins? If so, then tell us how then you can use GW2 as an example.

 

not to white knight, buuuut

 

the barbershop item might be on the GTN

[TUXs]

Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff.

To you. This is your opinion, not a fact. I'd counter argue that to an RPer, the ability to change looks is most certainly a CORE function of their play style. What you consider 'fluff', others consider content.