Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

[DarthZak]

Somehow I think you're not telling the whole truth here:

 

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=458031

 

"Yes but right now they have a very low value on the exchange, when they were introduced they could get you 20k each. Its the keys that are valuable and those you have to buy for zen, which you pretty much have to buy with real world money, currently you'd need about 18000 Dilithium to buy the zen for 1 key.

 

The market for used stuff between players is the Exchange, there are terminals at most starbases, at the Sol Spacedock its in the blue area."

 

Doesn't sound like the utopia you're claiming it to be.

 

So its possible right? Not ideal but possible? Nuff said.

[Vandicus]

The only worrying thing here, for me, is that BioWare is using the complimentary coins as an excuse to rely more heavily on the Cartel Market. I was under the impression that they were supposed to be a "bonus" - something to spend freely, as a gift. Not something that needs to be hoarded and saved to access game features that would have otherwise been in the game, proper.

 

Yet again, something that was formerly taken as a rare sign of good will from BioWare has been contorted to a point where it is somewhat of an affront to subscribers (even if a minor one). Those complimentary coins should not be labelled "complimentary" if BioWare is going to use them as an excuse to funnel more things into the market that could have been used in the core game.

 

Yeah, this is rather annoying. Remember augments? Originally advertised as extra for operations, now factored into the balancing of operations. Sure its cool that they allow easy stat minmaxing, and its necessary to balance for them to keep ops challenging, but it'd have been better to not advertise them as unnecessary in the first place.

[CelCawdro]

Merely gaining some proper understanding of the situation. Having next to no knowledge of STO, its rather difficult for me to engage in a discussion regarding it. I have typed my opinion earlier in the thread, though understandably its buried at this point. The barber shop is cosmetic, and as such I don't really care whether its paid or free. Most of the things I find interesting about this subject is that a species change reflects a willingness to ignore past story and dialogue that might signal they are warming up to the idea of faction switches(though without a continuous story), and the aspect of deciding that something can be CC paid for because subscribers are already getting CC.

 

In the recent Dulfy Q&A, it was mentioned that they were considering species swapping simply because it was possible. The outcome of that consideration is now apparent. They also noted, however, that faction swaps are nigh impossible given how the game is coded and structured.

[DaRoamer]

So its possible right? Not ideal but possible? Nuff said.

 

Just like using your free coins or buying the appearance change from the GTN. Finally we're in agreement!

[Vandicus]

In the recent Dulfy Q&A, it was mentioned that they were considering species swapping simply because it was possible. The outcome of that consideration is now apparent. They also noted, however, that faction swaps are nigh impossible given how the game is coded and structured.

 

Didn't know that. I don't think I've seen this one yet. Do you have a link on you?

[DarthZak]

Just like using your free coins or buying the appearance change from the GTN. Finally we're in agreement!

 

You still dont get it do you...

The "free" coins are meant as a loyalty reward for subs to spend on trinkets like packs and outfits which Im ok with.

Buying the appearance on the GTN means that someone somewhere still had to spend real money, just because the person isnt me doesnt mean its all magically ok.

 

So no, its not comparable seeing as I cant buy CC's with in-game credits

 

Now please have a valid argument or Im going to sleep

[CelCawdro]

Didn't know that. I don't think I've seen this one yet. Do you have a link on you?

 

Here. And it was about AC swapping, not species directly. My bad. But yeah, this echoes the sentiment I've seen every time the team has taken the time to address questions about faction changes.

 

18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon.

Edited March 22, 2013 by CelCawdro

[chuixupu]

The only worrying thing here, for me, is that BioWare is using the complimentary coins as an excuse to rely more heavily on the Cartel Market. I was under the impression that they were supposed to be a "bonus" - something to spend freely, as a gift. Not something that needs to be hoarded and saved to access game features that would have otherwise been in the game, proper.

 

Yes, exactly. It's starting to make me feel like this is my lifeblood to get things I'd normally expect out of a subscription rather than just a little extra something to have fun with.

Edited March 22, 2013 by chuixupu

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Do they do content updates outside of these seasons?

 

The seasons sound larger than our average .X patch, but typically smaller than the upcoming Season 8. What patch or combination of patches would you say most compares to an average season size?

 

Sort of on a tangential note, do you think STO has benefited from their f2p, through increased/better content updates? My experience with DDO has been that it became a much better game, but its always interesting to hear about other f2p games. I knew a lifetime subber who complained bitterly about STO near its launch, though it sounds like they've made significant progress since then.

 

Outside of the expac they announced today and the seasons, the only real permanent updates to content has been the FE's for the most part. They have events that go away.

 

I say though my way of looking at it is their space is head and shoulders above space here. Ground here has the edge. Only saying have the edge because there you beam down to hot zones with 4 bridge officers (sort of like companions here to give you an idea). So I have mine perfectly set up. My Amazon copy gave me a Borg BO, I got an Android BO from vet reward, I got a hologram BO from referral, and either my Reman BO or Breen BO from the FE special rewards rounds out the team. Borg keeps my shields up, hologram doctor keeps health up, Android helps the shield or I give him other powers like turrets, Reman guy helps on heals or give him other science powers, or Breen is my pew-pew guy if I am not. Reman or Breen depends on what my captain does.

 

Now they have Special Task Force missions. Basically the equivalent to FPs here only team of 5. I normally stick to the space part of them but they have ground ones too. I do those when bored or I try to do Khitomer ground for the other borg BO but not all my characters have that one. Just the one from Amazon copy of the game.

 

The STF's are max level only for HM but I think level 44's or 45's can do normal mode. Lower levels can do the PvE queues which are non-story short FP's is the only way I can say to a TOR player to understand. I forgot to say the PvE queue wasn't there at launch and I forget when it was added. So not sure if that was attached to a season or not.

 

Oh and the Foundry. Forgot about the Foundry. That's the user created content. People can create missions for other players to play in the game. They call that function "The Foundry". And some of the missions in there are better than ones made by Cryptic tbh lol.

[Vandicus]

Here. And it was about AC swapping, not species directly. My bad. But yeah, this echoes the sentiment I've seen every time the team has taken the time to address questions about faction changes.

 

Ah, yes, I have seen that one, but didn't really make notice of the bit about faction swaps. Funnily enough, this isn't brought up when we get a new faction swap suggestion thread every couple weeks.

[DarthZak]

Here. And it was about AC swapping, not species directly. My bad. But yeah, this echoes the sentiment I've seen every time the team has taken the time to address questions about faction changes.

 

Heh... kinda sad since they were adamant to forever stay with current AC's

Oh how theyve fallen

[DaRoamer]

You still dont get it do you...

The "free" coins are meant as a loyalty reward for subs to spend on trinkets like packs and outfits which Im ok with.

Buying the appearance on the GTN means that someone somewhere still had to spend real money, just because the person isnt me doesnt mean its all magically ok.

 

So no, its not comparable seeing as I cant buy CC's with in-game credits

 

Now please have a valid argument or Im going to sleep

 

Buying the item on the GTN could just as easily have meant that someone used their free coins that they didn't want to spend on trinkets on the appearance change which they sold for credits. You have no proof that all the GTN items were purchased with real money.

 

Whatever you feel the purpose of your free coins is doesn't change the fact you get them, no matter how much you want to narrow down the purpose to only that which suits your argument.

Edited March 22, 2013 by DaRoamer

[Mevan]

Heh... kinda sad since they were adamant to forever stay with current AC's

Oh how they're falling

 

Fixed that for you^^

[Jacen_Starsolo]

Somehow I think you're not telling the whole truth here:

 

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=458031

 

"Yes but right now they have a very low value on the exchange, when they were introduced they could get you 20k each. Its the keys that are valuable and those you have to buy for zen, which you pretty much have to buy with real world money, currently you'd need about 18000 Dilithium to buy the zen for 1 key.

 

The market for used stuff between players is the Exchange, there are terminals at most starbases, at the Sol Spacedock its in the blue area."

 

Doesn't sound like the utopia you're claiming it to be.

 

People put keys on the AH for energy credits (another form of currency in the game and main one for buying in-game stuff not on the C-store). One stipend I bought keys to sell on the AH for credits since they get the best prices. And the dilithium prices change. People post what they want to sell them for and buy for. I did that when prices were high but they dropped like a rock when Dstahl made changes to how to get dilithium in the game and made it harder to get. The market crashed. But it's going up in the last couple of days.

 

And 18000 dilithium before the changes recently were not that hard to get. It's a bit harder now but back when that post was made, not that hard at all. I rarely farm for dilithium now and all my characters at max level have at least 25k of that stuff just holding right now. Lower levels not so much because I use it while leveling for some items for my character or ship.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Jacen_Starsolo

[chuixupu]

Heh... kinda sad since they were adamant to forever stay with current AC's

Oh how theyve fallen

 

To be fair, this is par for the course with other games as well.

 

Blizzard years ago: "We will never ever allow PVE and PVP realm players to transfer from one type to another!"

Then they did.

 

Blizzard years ago: "We will never allow race, faction or gender change, that's silly!"

Then they did.

 

Blizzard years ago: "Don't keep asking for dual spec. We aren't going to do that!"

Then they did.

 

Now I'm just waiting for tri-spec, even though they keep saying it will never happen.

[CelCawdro]

Ah, yes, I have seen that one, but didn't really make notice of the bit about faction swaps. Funnily enough, this isn't brought up when we get a new faction swap suggestion thread every couple weeks.

 

Yoda knows how fast things fall out of the public consciousness. I've long stopped digging for links when people come at me with, "Prove it. Link?" I just recognize your name as a balanced, reasoned one and the interview was easy to find, so I pulled that one up for you.

 

There's a lot of information out there, but people don't seem to think of anything older than three hours or so as current, relevant information. So even when I dig these links up, it doesn't sate people. I wonder how people people are still clinging that that "Chewie kissing Leia"-quote... it seems to be the only thing people remember from the past, and it was discredited the day after that comment was made.

[DarthZak]

Buying the item on the GTN could just as easily have meant that someone used their free coins that they didn't want to spend on trinkets on the appearance change which they sold for credits. You have no proof that all the GTN items were purchased with real money.

 

Whatever you feel the purpose of your free coins is doesn't change the fact you get them, no matter how much you want to narrow down the meaning to only that which suits your argument.

 

*bashes head against the desk*

We've already explained a million times that the stipend coins are

A) not free

B) meant a loyalty rewards and not for basic components of MMO's

 

So yes, every coins in this game is "earned" with real money.

And what I feel doesnt matter, what they (BW) said however does matter and theyve said several times that this is a bonus because we're such good little boys for paying a sub and keeping them alive for a year. Want a quote? Go look it up somewhere since I cannot be bothered to deal with your *******

Again, I didnt define the meaning of those coins, the devs did.

[Aumeer]

This issue could be put to rest for many of us if they would just say whether or not this barbershop can be resold on the GTN. Instead they let the fire burn. While it still would make me uncomfortable that they are going this route with the Cartel Market, I do honestly believe that letting it be resold on the GTN would solve the issue. As long as there is in game profit to be made, there will always be people selling this for credits.

[Mowermanx]

Heh... kinda sad since they were adamant to forever stay with current AC's

Oh how theyve fallen

 

The words "considering" and "likely" doesn't mean much in dev talk, they may not see the light of day.

[DarthZak]

To be fair, this is par for the course with other games as well.

 

Blizzard years ago: "We will never ever allow PVE and PVP realm players to transfer from one type to another!"

Then they did.

 

Blizzard years ago: "We will never allow race, faction or gender change, that's silly!"

Then they did.

 

Blizzard years ago: "Don't keep asking for dual spec. We aren't going to do that!"

Then they did.

 

Now I'm just waiting for tri-spec, even though they keep saying it will never happen.

 

Havent played WoW long enough to notice those things but yea apparently sticking to your guns is a difficult thing to do

Things like duel spec is very handy and Id welcome it but species/faction change? Buh bye SW experience and hello general descriptive SciFi MMO with glowy swords

[Mevan]

This issue could be put to rest for many of us if they would just say whether or not this barbershop can be resold on the GTN. Instead they let the fire burn. While it still would make me uncomfortable that they are going this route with the Cartel Market, I do honestly believe that letting it be resold on the GTN would solve the issue. As long as there is in game profit to be made, there will always be people selling this for credits.

 

Depends how much it costs in CC. If it's alot, you can bet the prices on the GTN will be sky-high. If it's a purchase for every time you want to change a character, it's going to be impossible for the casual player to keep up with.

[DarthZak]

This issue could be put to rest for many of us if they would just say whether or not this barbershop can be resold on the GTN. Instead they let the fire burn. While it still would make me uncomfortable that they are going this route with the Cartel Market, I do honestly believe that letting it be resold on the GTN would solve the issue. As long as there is in game profit to be made, there will always be people selling this for credits.

 

That doesnt change a thing about the concept, it just mean some people wont care since it doesnt affect them directly (yet)

We cant hide our heads in the sand and hope it goes away

[Vandicus]

This issue could be put to rest for many of us if they would just say whether or not this barbershop can be resold on the GTN. Instead they let the fire burn. While it still would make me uncomfortable that they are going this route with the Cartel Market, I do honestly believe that letting it be resold on the GTN would solve the issue. As long as there is in game profit to be made, there will always be people selling this for credits.

 

DarthZak and a few others seem to disagree with on principle, though you're not the first one to take this stance. To get a specific response, I would suggest creating a thread asking the question after 9 AM CDT and before 6 PM CDT. Mr. Musco and the community team have been rather interactive and good at providing answers as of late, and if an easily answered question like this isn't buried by the dozens of other threads we get every hour, there's a good chance they'll answer.

[DaRoamer]

*bashes head against the desk*

We've already explained a million times that the stipend coins are

A) not free

B) meant a loyalty rewards and not for basic components of MMO's

 

So yes, every coins in this game is "earned" with real money.

And what I feel doesnt matter, what they (BW) said however does matter and theyve said several times that this is a bonus because we're such good little boys for paying a sub and keeping them alive for a year. Want a quote? Go look it up somewhere since I cannot be bothered to deal with your *******

Again, I didnt define the meaning of those coins, the devs did.

 

As a reward for my loyalty I can change my appearance with no additional cost. So it's right in line with what they're saying. The cartel is meant for vanity items. Change my hair style is by definition vanity.

 

Clearly this lines up exactly with what they've intended.

[Aumeer]

Depends how much it costs in CC. If it's alot, you can bet the prices on the GTN will be sky-high. If it's a purchase for every time you want to change a character, it's going to be impossible for the casual player to keep up with.

 

I think that is a fair point. It would have been best if this was just placed in game through an npc that charged you a choice of cartel coins or credits if you are a subscriber. That would keep the price stable and fair. But this thread has made it clear that there are a large portion of players that either don't care about or support the CM route.

 

Making it able to be resold on the GTN would be a compromise, and not everyone would be happy, but Bioware would get profit and players would have the option to buy it with credits.