We need NON-PREMADE wz's

[mrekxxx]

So sick of being ganked by premades in wz's! If you just dinged 50 you have no chance against a well organized premade.. Bioware you need to give os the option to have solo wz's!..Let the premades gank each other instead!!

 

i heard this is fixed soon in 1.7, premades against premades only ...

[lxynl]

Yeah, i can say a good chunk of MY SWTOR friends/guild/community have stopped pvping. Even some of the pvp guilds that i know have stopped pvping, and yes they still play. They are 5/5 tfb HM now. I stopped pvping when I found out that premades can go 8/8 in a non ranked setting kinda turned me off of PVP. Hell I even joined them a few matches, yes winning for once was cool, but I hated winning in that manner as it didn't seem fair to me and I felt bad for the other team. Politely told my group i was done, and I haven't pvp'd since. I haven't pvp'd now for 4 months.

 

First 8/8 is rare and if that turned you off then you shouldnt pvp at all imo. Second no one has to come into wz's as a new 50 with all recruit gear, if they want to spend the time pre-50 getting comms and ranked comms. Third war hero gear is easy to get, you shouldnt be in recruit gear for any length of time.

 

This really isnt about gear or being killed [ganked] in a wz, what you guys are saying is "I don't know how to play the objectives of the wz and think its a death match". The wz's are about capturing the objectives or scoreing in hut ball, knowing what and how to get to those objectives, knowing and using CC's, knowing when to call incommings and doing it, not over rotating, and a whole list of other things you can do to help your team in a wz.

 

Sure I play alot in a 4 man guild group, hell this is an mmo what exactly do you expect? I also que alot solo and see time and again most of the players in wz's dont have a clue what to do or how to win the wz. Pvp really isnt any different than pve when it comes to getting gear, takes time and effort.

 

Finally I think you made the right decision based on the last few sentences above, I would really hate to see you emoutionally scared by the death of pixels on a computer screen, so I approve you not pvp anymore, stick to pve.

[Brimmer]

The main reason why pre-mades need to be removed from normal warzones is rather simple.

 

1.) maxed out (gear) pre-mades

2.) pre-mades typically focus fire well, while it's a pain to get a pug to focus fire targets

3.) pre-mades break huttball

4.) pre-mades typically have voice chat

5.) pre-mades being removed from normal warzones would support ranked queues

6.) stat: expertise

7.) would vastly lower the amount of quitters pug groups have to deal with

Edited January 27, 2013 by Brimmer

[LeonHawkeye]

Bump because this is still a blatantly disgusting and player repelling problem. Premade Vs Pug should not exist in any way, shape or form.

[thefishdude]

The main reason why pre-mades need to be removed from normal warzones is rather simple.

 

1.) maxed out (gear) pre-mades

2.) pre-mades typically focus fire well, while it's a pain to get a pug to focus fire targets

3.) pre-mades break huttball

4.) pre-mades typically have voice chat

5.) pre-mades being removed from normal warzones would support ranked queues

6.) stat: expertise

7.) would vastly lower the amount of quitters pug groups have to deal with

 

 

You people make it sound like RWZ pop as often as Reg WZ and that we only play Regs to roll ppl. Fact is that there's only certain times in the day that ranked queues pop; so, why would I just sit in a RWZ Q for several hours and not play any?

 

If BW had cross server rated queues, a lot of this might go away, because of a larger RWZ population

 

 

 

Edit** And before you start giving me, if all the premades would do ranked, then they'd pop more often. Many times, we only have 7 on or *gasp* we only have one healer on. In your world, we should just run RWZ anyway.

Edited January 28, 2013 by thefishdude

[sauerkraut]

You people make it sound like RWZ pop as often as Reg WZ and that we only play Regs to roll ppl. Fact is that there's only certain times in the day that ranked queues pop; so, why would I just sit in a RWZ Q for several hours and not play any?

 

If BW had cross server rated queues, a lot of this might go away, because of a larger RWZ population

 

 

 

Edit** And before you start giving me, if all the premades would do ranked, then they'd pop more often. Many times, we only have 7 on or *gasp* we only have one healer on. In your world, we should just run RWZ anyway.

 

Dude who cares if your WZ pops or not, it's not the PUGs job to entertain you. I dunno, maybe BW shoud have a Dev time on call who plays against lonely Premades.

[cashogy_reborn]

4 players =/= a premade. last i checked there were still 8 players in a group.

 

 

if bioware reduces the max group in non-ranked warzones to two, how long before people start crying about DPS w/ pocket healers in 2-man premades?

 

this argument boils down to bad players dont like getting beat by people that they view as having no life and spending their entire time playing a video game. PUGs wouldnt be so bad if they players that made them up were not so bad. unfortunately, that is almost always the case tho.

 

 

the prerogative is not on the premades to be removed from the competition; its on the PUGs to up their game just a teensy bit and not be such mouth-breathers

[LeonHawkeye]

4 players =/= a premade. last i checked there were still 8 players in a group.

 

 

if bioware reduces the max group in non-ranked warzones to two, how long before people start crying about DPS w/ pocket healers in 2-man premades?

 

this argument boils down to bad players dont like getting beat by people that they view as having no life and spending their entire time playing a video game. PUGs wouldnt be so bad if they players that made them up were not so bad. unfortunately, that is almost always the case tho.

 

 

the prerogative is not on the premades to be removed from the competition; its on the PUGs to up their game just a teensy bit and not be such mouth-breathers

 

That is indeed part of the problem but not a realistic solution. The masses will always have their share of lower tiered players, in this example the overwhelming minority are the Pre-mades. While small in number, the way the system works it only takes a group of 4 to overwhelm the other 8 on the other side. Competence, communication and strategy work wonders but it is not reasonable to expect this from a clearly PUG filled group with possibly incompatible players going up against a well orchestrated, synergistic compatible Pre-made group.

 

I play on both sides but tend to run solo more often due to my playing times, the gross problem lies in the matchmaking system, it fails at it's job miserably and was very poorly made. When in a premade I tend to run into more PUG groups. When solo, I tend to run into more premade groups on the opposing side. The fault lies in the priority system which from experience seems to put a higher emphasis on quick Warzone match creation instead of matching Premade Vs Premade. Premades are fine when they have proper competition to have a competitive game with. A kin to a pro football team going up against the casual, random group of neighborhood dads at the park, so to Premade Vs Pug should not exist. We desperately need Cross Realm Function, an Adequate Matchmaking system, and a more stringent Split Queue system for Premades and Pugs with a reasonable way to fill these groups without causing a clearly and grossly mismatched game. What we have now is clearly not working.

Edited January 28, 2013 by LeonHawkeye

[cashogy_reborn]

my point is that just b/c they are in a PUG doesnt mean they have to play poorly.

 

general awareness of whats going on, call-outs early, not over-rotating (counting is hard), etc etc

 

all little things, but all things that go a long long way to make a bad player a good player. if every single player did these things all the time, PUGs would actually not be that bad, and would probably hold their own against the large majority of premades

[DariusCalera]

general awareness of whats going on, call-outs early, not over-rotating (counting is hard), etc etc

 

Had a Denova Coast tonight where almost every one of these things was ignored by my team mates. They over committed to incs and then when it was clear they were slow on heading back south where the opposite was respawning and stating to hit.

 

The other team was a full pug and wasn't even that good but we lost because people weren't looking at their map and using a little bit of common sense and situational awareness.

[V-Serp]

my point is that just b/c they are in a PUG doesnt mean they have to play poorly.

 

general awareness of whats going on, call-outs early, not over-rotating (counting is hard), etc etc

 

all little things, but all things that go a long long way to make a bad player a good player. if every single player did these things all the time, PUGs would actually not be that bad, and would probably hold their own against the large majority of premades

 

Oh please, a good premade should never lose to a full PUG no matter who the players are. PUGs are simply too slow and the team composition won't be good enough.

 

We had a full PUG against a double premade (as usual) where the PUG side had 3 guild leaders from the top PVP guilds, and the premade side had the top PVP guild and another very good one.

 

Despite the PUG side having some people on vent and having really good players overall, it just wasn't going to work. Despite great play and leadership skills it was eventually going to be a loss, and honestly it was never really competitive at all. These were all guild leaders that had won plenty of times with their premades against that same premade, and in general that team composition led to a high win percentage in PUGs, but against a similarly skilled opponent it's all meaningless.

 

Premades are a huge advantage against PUGs, that's why people premade. Voice chat, solid team composition, better gear, familiarity, they are all significant advantages.

 

This is a progression gear game and it puts premades vs PUGs. It is what it is. Personally the only thing that really annoys me about it is people that speak out of both sides of their mouth, bragging about how playing as a premade means they're more skilled while simultaneously insisting premade vs PUG affords no inherent advantage to a premade.

 

The only way a PUG is beating a premade is when that PUG is actually significantly more skilled than the people on the premade. But just in terms of common sense and basic numbers, that can't be effective match making because you have to assume average vs. average (because that is what average means, meaning the majority of people).

 

Nothing is ever going to change and the only solution is to form your own premade and then roll PUGs until all the PUGs stop queuing up. There's nothing wrong with the back and forth going on in these forums, it's just meaningless. As long as you look at it as entertainment it can be fun though.

[Skyhigh]

Oh please, a good premade should never lose to a full PUG no matter who the players are. PUGs are simply too slow and the team composition won't be good enough.

 

We had a full PUG against a double premade (as usual) where the PUG side had 3 guild leaders from the top PVP guilds, and the premade side had the top PVP guild and another very good one.

 

Despite the PUG side having some people on vent and having really good players overall, it just wasn't going to work. Despite great play and leadership skills it was eventually going to be a loss, and honestly it was never really competitive at all. These were all guild leaders that had won plenty of times with their premades against that same premade, and in general that team composition led to a high win percentage in PUGs, but against a similarly skilled opponent it's all meaningless.

 

Premades are a huge advantage against PUGs, that's why people premade. Voice chat, solid team composition, better gear, familiarity, they are all significant advantages.

 

This is a progression gear game and it puts premades vs PUGs. It is what it is. Personally the only thing that really annoys me about it is people that speak out of both sides of their mouth, bragging about how playing as a premade means they're more skilled while simultaneously insisting premade vs PUG affords no inherent advantage to a premade.

 

The only way a PUG is beating a premade is when that PUG is actually significantly more skilled than the people on the premade. But just in terms of common sense and basic numbers, that can't be effective match making because you have to assume average vs. average (because that is what average means, meaning the majority of people).

 

Nothing is ever going to change and the only solution is to form your own premade and then roll PUGs until all the PUGs stop queuing up. There's nothing wrong with the back and forth going on in these forums, it's just meaningless. As long as you look at it as entertainment it can be fun though.

 

Your ability to not understand how to win is the reason you will never win. That is what makes you bad. No ones fault but your's. /blamegame

[cashogy_reborn]

Oh please, a good premade should never lose to a full PUG no matter who the players are. PUGs are simply too slow and the team composition won't be good enough.

 

We had a full PUG against a double premade (as usual) where the PUG side had 3 guild leaders from the top PVP guilds, and the premade side had the top PVP guild and another very good one.

 

Despite the PUG side having some people on vent and having really good players overall, it just wasn't going to work. Despite great play and leadership skills it was eventually going to be a loss, and honestly it was never really competitive at all. These were all guild leaders that had won plenty of times with their premades against that same premade, and in general that team composition led to a high win percentage in PUGs, but against a similarly skilled opponent it's all meaningless.

 

Premades are a huge advantage against PUGs, that's why people premade. Voice chat, solid team composition, better gear, familiarity, they are all significant advantages.

 

This is a progression gear game and it puts premades vs PUGs. It is what it is. Personally the only thing that really annoys me about it is people that speak out of both sides of their mouth, bragging about how playing as a premade means they're more skilled while simultaneously insisting premade vs PUG affords no inherent advantage to a premade.

 

The only way a PUG is beating a premade is when that PUG is actually significantly more skilled than the people on the premade. But just in terms of common sense and basic numbers, that can't be effective match making because you have to assume average vs. average (because that is what average means, meaning the majority of people).

 

Nothing is ever going to change and the only solution is to form your own premade and then roll PUGs until all the PUGs stop queuing up. There's nothing wrong with the back and forth going on in these forums, it's just meaningless. As long as you look at it as entertainment it can be fun though.

 

first of all, good players should instinctively know how to react in certain situations. they will know not to overrotate by looking to see how many enemies are attacking, and how many friendlies are already responding to it; they will know to not guard a node standing still or right next to the controls; they will know to attack enemy healers and to peel for their own healers; etc etc.

 

second, your little anecdote is great and all, but PUGs being in vent? they arent pugs then bud. thats a premade too. also, what you describe sounds like a perfect example of "too many chiefs, not enough indians". which is the exact mentality that leads to over-rotations, and accidentally leaving nodes completely undefended.

 

third, composition? at best you can count on 4 players being the right comp. and most PvP guilds will just queue for regular WZs with whoever is on and/or whoever wants to, regardless of comp. i cant think of anyone that is super serious about comps for non-rated wzs.

 

fourth, the vast majority of premades are not top level PvPers. if every player took individual responsibility for their actions in game, and made sure they are covered the basics of playing well, PUGs would have no problem beating those premades. its the top level player premades that PUGs would still lose to, but that is b/c theyre at a higher skill level (hence being the top-level players).

 

bioware has said nothing, and will continue to say nothing, on the matter of PUGs v Premades b/c the argument is ridiculous. and like ive said over and over since this argument started to crop up almost a year ago, the whole argument boils down to bad players dont like losing to better players.

 

the excuses have changed, but bads will always find a way to pin their lack of success on someone else

[abhaxus]

The simple fact is that in a game with 4 man premades on either side, the team with the worst pugs loses.

 

I would wholeheartedly support better matchmaking of premade vs premade but not a different queue. I don't like dealing with terribad players on my team.

[DarthMaulUK]

This simply wont happen as there just aren't enough players. Cross server warzones are needed to bring some life back into pvp

[bassfu]

Make the teams bigger and premades won't matter as much.

[symke]

We most definitely do need non-premade WZs. Playing a game should be about fun and being in a match you know from the start you will lose, is not fun.

If individual quality was the factor, then premade Vs PUG would not be such a problem, as you can have many very good players on a PUG as well. But playing against a premade means you are playing against a team. Which PUG is not.

PUG is a group of players and as such is not on the same level of play as a team of players. Just put those premade players into a solo PVP match, without their buddies, and the level of their play drops dramatically. I've sen that many times so far, and it makes me laugh every time. "Oh look ...he is completely lost when he has to do something without his buddies to help ".

Having a more developed queue system is something that should not be so hard for the devs of this game. But since it has nothing to do with Cartel market, they don't care.

[DarthOvertone]

your farming for stabs, so youve already lost my sympathy.

 

I knew it! I knew there was a reason for the massive amount of anti-premade QQ that has recently erupted on the boards. These peeps trumpeting all the QQ aren't actual PvPers, just PvErs trying to farm stabs and getting their egos crushed. Expected there was a carebear source to this problem. Makes perfect sense now.

[L-RANDLE]

Expected there was a carebear source to this problem. Makes perfect sense now.

 

It's like big brother versus little brother...

 

When big brother beats up little brother,

 

Little brother A runs and tells parental.

Little brother B punches big brother in the ding-ding and flushes big brothers Transformers down the toilet, while he is rolling around in pain....

 

 

 

I think most of the PvPers who post here are in the second catergory....

[MidichIorian]

I knew it! I knew there was a reason for the massive amount of anti-premade QQ that has recently erupted on the boards. These peeps trumpeting all the QQ aren't actual PvPers, just PvErs trying to farm stabs and getting their egos crushed. Expected there was a carebear source to this problem. Makes perfect sense now.

Typical Bastion comment.

[DarthRaika]

Pvp'rs in swtor make me sad. In rift many of the better premaders wanted matching and cross server so that they could have competition. The premade pvprs in swtor just want to stomp pugs. Sad.

 

I personally want premade matching so that I can form a great premade and try to be the best. As it is now I won't even join a hardcore guild since they just pugstomp 90% of the time. If I premade now it is just with friends of random composition and gear.

 

There is nothing well-adjusted competitive players hate more than continually fighting way lesser opponents.

[DarthSabreth]

/signed, premades have no place in solo ques. send them all to the ranked ques by default.

[UGLYMRJ]

In an MMO based around community, groups and guilds we still have people arguing that solo PUG players deserve special treatment?

 

Ignorance is bliss.

 

The best way to counter a pre-made... is to form one. Use the tools at hand... do not ask them to be removed or become punishable.

[Inat_mivea]

being away for awhile, I've been hearing a lot about 'pre-mades' and from the context assumed it was a 'pre-made' was a bad thing

When I finally decided to deal with the jeers of 'nOOb', I decided to ask. So a 'pre-made' is a group of players who communicate and coordinate in pvp. So what? Isn't that what should be happening in pvp? My biggest frustration with this game is that no one seems to want to come up with any plan or comunicate. If a PUG suddenly started chatting and picking targets, would they be as 'bad' as a pre-made?

 

oh, and I'm a PUG player, not an eeeevil premade

Edited January 29, 2013 by Inat_mivea

[Sathid]

In an MMO based around community, groups and guilds we still have people arguing that solo PUG players deserve special treatment?

 

Ignorance is bliss.

 

The best way to counter a pre-made... is to form one. Use the tools at hand... do not ask them to be removed or become punishable.

 

Lol say's the guy running with primarily SMASH premades and suspected of using the lag switch.