cloudwalkerrr Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's a CASH GRAB, people. Wake up and stop being sheep. Why is it a cash grab? Because they're asking for pre-order money on an expansion under the following terms: 1) No definite list of content 2) No hard release date This is exactly like a car dealership taking FULL PAYMENT for car orders that have: 1) No list of specified options 2) No delivery date A scam is a scam is a scam. How in the world can you accept payment from people (or be silly enough to pay someone) with no actual promise made on the service(s) to be delivered? It's completely unethical. You're all so willing to throw down your $10 and you don't even know what you're getting!!! It's all about taking your money now and sometime down the road they'll give you something for it. If it sucks well too bad so sad. -- I have been a continuous subscriber since launch (only after I tried the game in closed beta) so it's not like I don't put my money where my mouth is. I believe in supporting the games you enjoy but once again the failings of this hot mess that is EA/Bioware/SWTOR are readily and abundantly obvious. Shame on them for thinking so little of their customers. This right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durasturan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I wont be buying it until I see what they are doing with crafting. Ending crafting at 50 when the max character level is 55 is laughable. But they can't give new schematics to crafters, if they do that what will they put on the Cartel Market? Honestly, crafting is dead. The only useful crew skill now is Biochem and MAYBE cybertech for end tier armorings and mods. All the cool new looks will be put up on the CM for purchase with real money, we will not be able to craft them or even buy the schematics to make anything cool. In game economy is dead, synth, armor and arms are pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 But they can't give new schematics to crafters, if they do that what will they put on the Cartel Market? Honestly, crafting is dead. The only useful crew skill now is Biochem and MAYBE cybertech for end tier armorings and mods. All the cool new looks will be put up on the CM for purchase with real money, we will not be able to craft them or even buy the schematics to make anything cool. In game economy is dead, synth, armor and arms are pointless. So I suppose you don't do end game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benodach Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Because GW2 did it? When GW2 started taking pre-orders and pre-purchases, there was no guarantee of any of the content and there was no release date. In fact you couldn't even participate in the betas without doing it. Personally, this seems to be DLC sized content and not a full blown expansion. As such, the current pricing is not an issue to me. BJ GW2 doing something similar makes it OK? To pay for something without knowing WHAT you're paying for or WHEN you're going to get it is idiocy. For a company to offer a service or product under such terms is unethical and, at the very least, can lead to consumer alienation (just read the page count on this thread). Business 101. Past crimes do not excuse current injustices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talahar Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Yeah that is the hope I am still hanging on to. That the $10 price is just for the 5 day pre-release and when the content update actually hits, it will be either free or buyable with cartel coins. You and me, both, friend. But Bioware is its usual annoying self so we don't actual know. I will wait. I will be five days behind after all those preorder folks, but I actually need something to spend my frickin' subscriber coins on. The current fare of store items really doesn't do it for me. So I hold on to hope that they actually sell something in the store that I actually want. However foolish that maybe. I have a feeling that I will be disappointed. Edited December 19, 2012 by Talahar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_nonymous Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I don't recall such statements. However, I do recall that most expansions to any MMO - even those with subscriptions still cost money above and beyond the subscription cost. This looks to be more DLC sized, therefore I think the pricing for such is in-line and acceptable. BJ I guess I'm spoiled by DCUO where they have never had an expansion that they charged their subs for. They charged their f2p players and many of them pay for various expansions they want. Subs never pay. Why should they? The subscription should pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's a CASH GRAB, people. Wake up and stop being sheep. Why is it a cash grab? Because they're asking for pre-order money on an expansion under the following terms: 1) No definite list of content 2) No hard release date This is exactly like a car dealership taking FULL PAYMENT for car orders that have: 1) No list of specified options 2) No delivery date A scam is a scam is a scam. How in the world can you accept payment from people (or be silly enough to pay someone) with no actual promise made on the service(s) to be delivered? It's completely unethical. You're all so willing to throw down your $10 and you don't even know what you're getting!!! It's all about taking your money now and sometime down the road they'll give you something for it. If it sucks well too bad so sad. -- I have been a continuous subscriber since launch (only after I tried the game in closed beta) so it's not like I don't put my money where my mouth is. I believe in supporting the games you enjoy but once again the failings of this hot mess that is EA/Bioware/SWTOR are readily and abundantly obvious. Shame on them for thinking so little of their customers. Then don't pre-order till they give more details? What are you complaining about? I suspect we'll see tons more details over the coming 1.5 months and there will still be time to pre-order later once some of your questions are answered, if they aren't then wait till it drops to decided if you want it. No one is forcing you to pre-order, but for those of us that enjoy the game as is and have no intention to stop playing it's silly not to pre-order and get the extra days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyllia Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 What a pathetic bunch some of you lot are. All you do is whine and complain. All this over £6/$10, a quarter of the price of most other games expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auraleus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 You do know its possible for a company to change positions right? And that they have done so publicly on Makeb a number of times over the last five months or so right? Yeah, that's cool. It is reasonable. Just like it is reasonable that the company's customers would express their displeasure about the change of position after the previous statements (that's what this thread is). So what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) I'm unsure about this. For an expansion, so far it seems very light on content. Just a planet to quest is not an expansion, its a patch. And as such is should be free for subscribers. If it brings a couple of new flashpoints and an Op then i could rest my case, but as it stand im not happy with the announcement. i wanted a proper boxed expansion announced, not this. This we already knew was coming. I will probably get it anyways, but im not happy about it. And if someone that loves the game like me isnt happy about it, it isnt a good sign. I dont think it will make a difference, but at least let us buy the expansion with the free cartel coins we get from subbing cause otherwise this does feel like a cash grab. Edited December 18, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigronx Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Where is a link to this statement that expansions was gonna be free? And regardless things change over time such as direction with the game, business models ect. But would like to see any statements expansions was gonna be free cause everyone keeps saying that ...and no i dont feel like searching for somthing....just post a link or quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durasturan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 So I suppose you don't do end game? The most useful crew skill in pvp, which is what I do... is Biochem. It is also the most profitable. What specifically in armormech arms and synth weaving do you see that you HAVE to have one of those crewskills to be competitive? Honestly, even in PVE, you don't NEED to be one those three, I'm not even certain that someone in your guild HAS to be. Anything useful from those crew skills is BOE and certainly not BoP BiS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 If yall are so strung up about this, then just wait until more information is released on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthstinji Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's a CASH GRAB, people. Wake up and stop being sheep. Why is it a cash grab? Because they're asking for pre-order money on an expansion under the following terms: 1) No definite list of content 2) No hard release date This is exactly like a car dealership taking FULL PAYMENT for car orders that have: 1) No list of specified options 2) No delivery date A scam is a scam is a scam. How in the world can you accept payment from people (or be silly enough to pay someone) with no actual promise made on the service(s) to be delivered? It's completely unethical. You're all so willing to throw down your $10 and you don't even know what you're getting!!! It's all about taking your money now and sometime down the road they'll give you something for it. If it sucks well too bad so sad. -- I have been a continuous subscriber since launch (only after I tried the game in closed beta) so it's not like I don't put my money where my mouth is. I believe in supporting the games you enjoy but once again the failings of this hot mess that is EA/Bioware/SWTOR are readily and abundantly obvious. Shame on them for thinking so little of their customers. Enough with the rage. seriously. Its a simple concept. Simple economics..... if your that pissed off, DONT BUY IT!!!! Really. Its as simple as that. If no one buys it, they will get the message loud and clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 So I suppose you don't do end game? I don't do end game here and to me crafting is not dead as I get my enjoyment out of r/e'ing the level 49/50 schematics for my lvl 126 gear. It's bad enough that they now give away tionese level gear for free, which means my crafting is only really necessary for my alts, but to level further with no new crafting ............... nope not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The most useful crew skill in pvp, which is what I do... is Biochem. It is also the most profitable. What specifically in armormech arms and synth weaving do you see that you HAVE to have one of those crewskills to be competitive? Honestly, even in PVE, you don't NEED to be one those three, I'm not even certain that someone in your guild HAS to be. Anything useful from those crew skills is BOE and certainly not BoP BiS. Augments. The skills are clearly not useless, and there is clearly a market for what they sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Yeah, that's cool. It is reasonable. Just like it is reasonable that the company's customers would express their displeasure about the change of position after the previous statements (that's what this thread is). So what is your point? The line about a noose and a neck only make's sense in context of the OP's original(and irrational) claim of lies. The OP is still trying to make some point about being lied to, when they clearly weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Again, it's a pay to win thing. Those who pay will run around w/level 55 toons. Say you run into them in a WZ somewhere. Your 50 is dead because the other guy is 5 levels above you. You can be sure they'll introduce FPs and Ops down the road that require a level 55. So you can run it with your heavily armored 50, but you'll be a drag to the group and will get killed. Enjoy. Okay, so every other expansion for every other MMO that was released that also raised the level cap is P2W as well? BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durasturan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Augments. The skills are clearly not useless, and there is clearly a market for what they sell. Lol @ augments. 27 mods and armorings sell for about 30 times more than an augment, my exotech stims take fewer mats and sell for more per craft (3x per). And they are NOT BoP, so it's not like you HAVE to be. Honestly, I don't know anyone that says "if you want to god tier in endgame you need to go synthweaving man, how else are you gonna get dem augments?" EDIT: Additionally are you really ok with a crew skill whose entire point was "look at the cool useful armor you can make!" Now being relegated to "you can make these things that go in the armor you buy off the cartel market to make it SLIGHTLY better." Edited December 18, 2012 by Durasturan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auraleus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The line about a noose and a neck only make's sense in context of the OP's original(and irrational) claim of lies. The OP is still trying to make some point about being lied to, when they clearly weren't. Gotcha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 You do know its possible for a company to change positions right? And that they have done so publicly on Makeb a number of times over the last five months or so right? You know what bioscrooge kept telling us over and over and over prerelease and what they used to justify lack of info about game? "We will never announce anything unless it's set in stone" Or should i ignore this aswell since it seems to work against them now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Lol @ augments. 27 mods and armorings sell for about 30 times more than an augment, my exotech stims take fewer mats and sell for more per craft (3x per). And they are NOT BoP, so it's not like you HAVE to be. Honestly, I don't know anyone that says "if you want to god tier in endgame you need to go synthweaving man, how else are you gonna get dem augments?" So you retract your original statement that those crew skills are in fact useless then? Or are you going to pretend your original claim wasn't what it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryklone Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's irrelevant if something was ever said/not said about charging for Makeb. The examples of broken/changed promises have sprawled across computer gaming for decades. Plans change, people change. Is it a travesty that promises count for nothing? I think so. However, that doesn't change that it happens in this biz and happens quite often. Rather then rely on any possible statement, one might consider letting actions speak louder than words; saves a lot of time and grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Seems more in the style of EQ adventure packs, small mini xpacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benodach Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Then don't pre-order till they give more details? What are you complaining about? I suspect we'll see tons more details over the coming 1.5 months and there will still be time to pre-order later once some of your questions are answered, if they aren't then wait till it drops to decided if you want it. No one is forcing you to pre-order, but for those of us that enjoy the game as is and have no intention to stop playing it's silly not to pre-order and get the extra days. I'm complaining about exactly what I posted...re-read it. I'm complaining about the business practice. It's a cash grab because they're selling the service today and there is no actual service. There's no specification of the WHAT or the WHEN. If you're comfortable buying something today and not actually know what you're getting that's you're privilege but it doesn't invalidate my point of view. I know how to protect myself and, as you suggested, I will certainly not pay for something until I have more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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