Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[UGLYMRJ]

No new bracket needed. No group queue allowed, or limited to 2 people.

 

No group queue huh?

 

Well that makes sense in a TEAM BASED, MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER ONLINE game...

[Muramxx]

Every MMO I have every played has had 2 groups the casual group and the Hardcore group. The casual group even if they played like crazy would get ltop end "SOLO" content gear and maybe some low en raid gear. Where as the Hardcore guy would be in high end raiding gear. Thats the problem here is there is no difference in gear that is abtainable.

 

There should be a higher teir premade bracket where you can achieve that better gear. As of right now though there is an Easy button for the hardcore guys (they wont admit it) because playing in full WH gear vs a guy barely in recruit gear on his first guy is said easy mode. They refuse to allow the PUG's to be able to achieve the same results because it's always been like a club the "elites always want to be a step above everyone" So lets stomp and beat and roll them over and not better ourselves by playing against equals, because then eventually it will come down to skill and while the PUG's get better and you don't..... oh well.

[Muramxx]

You're asking for a PUG v PUG group because you're losing... it's too hard for you to win.

 

You're asking for an easier way to win. Simple as that... it's not complicated.

 

and I know what you're implying... Most of those pre-mades are only in regular war zones because teams aren't queuing for rated... and the ones that are... are the same 5 damn teams and we've been playing each other for months.

 

ALL of the decent guilds I deal with on Bastion... I'm talking about 5-6 talented guilds WANT COMPETITION. They want you to group up... be better... and give all of us more competition. They want you to queue for rated and they DO NOT want to roll you. We're here for competition... unfortunately the competitive are a minority and threads like this are proof of that.

 

Hard to have competition when you stomp someone so much that they give up on PVP though.

[Hambunctious]

No group queue huh?

 

Well that makes sense in a TEAM BASED, MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER ONLINE game...

 

They have rated for that...or did you just not want a challenge?

[Zhaker]

I like the choice between premades being dominate or avoid the idiots. Probably both, I can understand the frustration of dealing with people not trying in PVP, so let them get there solo queue only bracket. Oh wait, that would stop the easy farming wouldn't it? Yea, we wouldn't that to happen for you...or wait longer queues right?

 

Yea maybe they should just leave the game then, since you don't like playing with them. The less players means the more queues will pop, right bud?

 

So hang on, I want idiots to leave so I can farm them?

 

Or we want to give idiots their own WZ so they can repeatedly queue doing absolutely nothing but hit random buttons to get comms for over people that want to do objectives and win?

 

Whats next, you wanna allow 8 mans to be done with 100 people because they've not finished an OPS for a month?

[UGLYMRJ]

You change your message every post. You tell people to leave in one post and then adapt in the next, stop flip-flopping. When you address point A, who are you basing that on? The 4 people that agree with you? I don't know how you can speak for the entire SWTOR community without any type of source.

 

You give solo queuers their own bracket, they will play it and have fun. Later on, some of them will get tired of it and seek something on a higher level. Then eventually they will form their own team and be a competitive team. But first they actually have to enjoy playing PVP. Otherwise you get one less person in the queue.

 

I really don't understand how this is so hard to grasp.

 

I never said anyone should leave... but this isn't the game for everyone and my point, was that no one is forcing you to play a game that is designed with a system you don't enjoy.

 

And a solo queue goes against everything this game is designed around. COMMUNITY.

[TridusSWTOR]

I never said anyone should leave... but this isn't the game for everyone and my point, was that no one is forcing you to play a game that is designed with a system you don't enjoy.

 

And a solo queue goes against everything this game is designed around. COMMUNITY.

 

So even though you did say you think people should leave, now you never said such a thing? I guess the flip-flopping statement is true.

 

Yea, when you say this game isn't for "everyone", I think bioware would want to change that. Since you know...more people, means more money for the company...means more stuff for the game...see what I'm getting at here? Take your time.

[Doomsdaycomes]

Yea, when you say this game isn't for "everyone", I think bioware would want to change that. Since you know...more people, means more money for the company...means more stuff for the game...see what I'm getting at here? Take your time.

 

I think this game would be more fun with Panda's and Kung Fu...

 

BW of course wants to make as much money as possible, so get right on that please Mr. Dev's

[Muramxx]

I never said anyone should leave... but this isn't the game for everyone and my point, was that no one is forcing you to play a game that is designed with a system you don't enjoy.

 

And a solo queue goes against everything this game is designed around. COMMUNITY.

 

there is a system in place there is a solo and a ranked the problem is which one is easier for the majority of premades? which one at the end of the day will you benifit from the most at the end of the day. So why not **** the rewards of the solo que and damn everyone else who that's there only real option. Don't say "well they can join a guild" because I have seen what that's like on here because it's so PVP centered you have to be that class they want and be in this gear first.

 

Premades have a choice of playing ranked it is you that chooses not to do it. So lets penalize the majority for you. It is you that chase away the new people by crushing them for your worthless coms which may be the end all for you but for me... the end all is having fun.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Muramxx

[Doomsdaycomes]

your right on this premades aren't the problem. Where they go and what they do is. Go play a ranked game with another premade... oh that's right no one does the ranked play because why play and better your self when you can reap the same rewards noob stomping....

 

It's funny how I can use the exact same thing the premades tell me to do and toss it back to them.

 

Premade in Normal WZ is 2-4

 

Premade in ranked is 8.

 

Premade suggest you find 1-3 other people if you don't like your odds.

 

You tell premades go find 7 other people and stay out of your way

 

That is the inequality. 1-3 is easier to find than 7. Normal Wz's pool is also bigger, while Premades in ranked might not even have another 8 (total of 15 other players a premade needs to find if no one else is queuing.)

 

Premade/Group players are sick of players asking for welfare. No one cares about you, no one is looking out for you. Look out for yourself, or get eaten.

[DarthRaika]

Seriously people, FTP is coming out. There will be many new 50s and MOST of them will be casuals. I know you can do just fine in pvp with entry gear (I have done it on a bunch of chars) but if you take the average person then they will have a horrible experience.

 

I am not asking for solo only. Lets just have a system that tries to match premade vs. premade for a few minutes and if it can't then they fight a pug. Also, I want mixed faction when necessary (could still have training or huttball excuse for it) and this way premades will be more likely to face premades.

 

THIS WOULD NOT INCREASE Q TIMES MUCH AT ALL. PLEASE READ IT CAREFULLY OR RESPOND TO ME WITH A QUESTION IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME. In fact this would greatly decrease q times over the long run since there wouldn't be as many super pugstomping matches as there are now.

 

Also, btw the main reasons I want this are ...

 

1. Keep money coming in for development.

 

2. I love premading and fighting other premades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just hate pugstomping.

[DarthRaika]

Also, this is a question of money. More players are casual puggers than are premaders. Infact the game would likely do better if all of us that like to premade (I love to premade if I can fight other premades just not in this game until premade matching is added) quit.

 

Why is money important to us? We want the game to last and we want more money into development.

 

Seriously, pvp is bad for most people that want more even matches. Whether it is puggers that want more even matches or geared premaders that want more even matches.

 

A decent premade matching (not mandatory) will not increase q times by much at all (since it is not mandatory).

 

I would like some responses to me. I don't see how anyone that says they like competitive pvp can argue from that standpoint against what I am saying. Prove me wrong pls.

[Muramxx]

Premade in Normal WZ is 2-4

 

Premade in ranked is 8.

 

Premade suggest you find 1-3 other people if you don't like your odds.

 

You tell premades go find 7 other people and stay out of your way

 

That is the inequality. 1-3 is easier to find than 7. Normal Wz's pool is also bigger, while Premades in ranked might not even have another 8 (total of 15 other players a premade needs to find if no one else is queuing.)

 

Premade/Group players are sick of players asking for welfare. No one cares about you, no one is looking out for you. Look out for yourself, or get eaten.

 

wait a sec here.... I am not a mathmatician but... if a premade group of 4 is looking for another premade group of 4 that would be a group looking for 4 not 1 looking for 7..... And with how premades want us to think there are a bunch of you cause it's so easy to make a premade shouldn't there que be equal to the solo one?

 

Your ranked pool would be bigger but something that has been said about 2,000 times. "WHY DO RANKED WHEN YOU CAN STOMP NOOBS AND GET MORE?" So yet again you (as a whole) choose to have a ****** ranked pool not the solo people so don't be coming down to our level pretending that you are so much Better and that we need to "nut up" and get with the program when it's premades that need to do exactly that.

[Zhaker]

your right on this premades aren't the problem. Where they go and what they do is. Go play a ranked game with another premade... oh that's right no one does the ranked play because why play and better your self when you can reap the same rewards noob stomping....

 

It's funny how I can use the exact same thing the premades tell me to do and toss it back to them.

 

I have, but there are 2 major problems with RWZ:

 

- Organizing 16 people to do RWZ, thats more effort than you think , its easier to organize 4 people, but to organize 8 and then finding 8 other like minded people is hard.

 

- Most people that do RWZ isnt doing it for the fight, they're doing it for the Comms, most RWZ I enter ends up being empty space because they all left. So most are farming each other to get RWZ.

 

So yea my bad for people abusing the system.

 

You think Solo PuG WZ going to fix ****, it wont.

 

You think that having multiple tiers for WZ is going to fix it, it wont.

 

You even think that matchmaking would work, that could but its going to be hard.

 

Players will abuse the system, trying to find ways to stop premades happening will just end up people abusing the system more.

 

Which means people at the end will have less fun, is that what you want?

[Muramxx]

Also, this is a question of money. More players are casual puggers than are premaders. Infact the game would likely do better if all of us that like to premade (I love to premade if I can fight other premades just not in this game until premade matching is added) quit.

 

Why is money important to us? We want the game to last and we want more money into development.

 

Seriously, pvp is bad for most people that want more even matches. Whether it is puggers that want more even matches or geared premaders that want more even matches.

 

A decent premade matching (not mandatory) will not increase q times by much at all (since it is not mandatory).

 

I would like some responses to me. I don't see how anyone that says they like competitive pvp can argue from that standpoint against what I am saying. Prove me wrong pls.

 

The problem is premades don't want even matches or the ranking que would be 10x what it is.

[DarthRaika]

Well I really don't believe Zhaker wants even matches just from all my years pvp'n and so I know his type but many people out there love to have even match premade v premade. Also, this doesn't really matter since there will always be far more casuals and so even if they did leave and no premader wanted an even match the q's would still be fast as casuals would all pvp.

 

I really don't believe that would happen though lol.

 

Also, Doom seems like someone that would like more even matches.

Edited November 9, 2012 by DarthRaika

[Muramxx]

Most people that do RWZ isnt doing it for the fight, they're doing it for the Comms, most RWZ I enter ends up being empty space because they all left. So most are farming each other to get RWZ.

QUOTE]

 

Exactly, premade groups 90% of the time are after the comms. So the question that keeps being asked over and over and over with no real answer and people trying to steer clear of it is. Why do ranked when we can farm the noobs and make the comms faster? The only resoponse form this is "well we don't like ROFLstomping PUG's" ok then why are you when there are suposedly enough of you that the useless PUGs need to stop being solo players and get with the program like you.

[Doomsdaycomes]

wait a sec here.... I am not a mathmatician but... if a premade group of 4 is looking for another premade group of 4 that would be a group looking for 4 not 1 looking for 7..... And with how premades want us to think there are a bunch of you cause it's so easy to make a premade shouldn't there que be equal to the solo one?

 

Your ranked pool would be bigger but something that has been said about 2,000 times. "WHY DO RANKED WHEN YOU CAN STOMP NOOBS AND GET MORE?" So yet again you (as a whole) choose to have a ****** ranked pool not the solo people so don't be coming down to our level pretending that you are so much Better and that we need to "nut up" and get with the program when it's premades that need to do exactly that.

 

-.- ya know a 50 comm lose (should be 80 if you and your team are any good) in ranked is still more than a 140 comm win in normal? The only difference, is normal is easier to start than ranked.

 

And no, the math is not off. You have a Solo and a Premader, both are an individual. As an individual, you are being asked to find 1-3 other people. As a premader, that individual is being asked to find exactly 7 other people.

 

So while you can find even just 1 person to up your odds, a Premader must find exactly 7 more. Oh btw... even by your logic that a Solo player needs 1-3 and a Full premade only need 4 more... 4 is greater than 1, 2, or 3!

 

<.< Can't ask someone to do something you won't. We have found our 3 other playes, you have not. You tell us to find 4 more people and get out of your Wz. We say "We don't see your name on it."

 

>.> take a moment and wonder what about the Premaders who run in a group of 1 Wh, 2 Bm's, and a recruit BM mix. Think it doesn't happen? Think again! By your selfish words, you would have those 4 friends either not PvP togther, or try and bring BM's into ranked. You lose nothing if you lose in a WZ, in fact you gain 80 comms. A premade in ranked loses rating.

 

<.< Ranked does not equal 4 man premade's home. Normal WZ is not your play ground. Pretty simple. With that, I'm done for not until someone posts with something intelligent.

 

@DarthRakia: Yep, I'm all for matchmaking and evening things up, I'm just messing with these peeps cause I'm tired of people throwing wid accusations about their better's character. Also, watching them squirm with simple, realistic facts is kinda fun.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

[Zhaker]

Well I really don't believe Zhaker wants even matches just from all my years pvp'n and so I know his type but many people out there love to have even match premade v premade. Also, this doesn't really matter since there will always be far more casuals and so even if they did leave and no premader wanted an even match the q's would still be fast as casuals would all pvp.

 

I really don't believe that would happen though lol.

 

Also, Doom seems like someone that would like more even matches.

 

BECAUSE EVEN MATCHES DONT EXIST.

 

You think Pug vs Pug will be somehow even, what about gear difference, class composition, skill wise. What you think that even matches will exist somehow or that BW will have a magic idea to make this happen?

 

The only game even matches exist is if people learn to play the game and improve. I seen scrubs improve to the point that most games increases the game, where it becomes a nail biter. Those were fun.

 

But hey you're right I want to farm idiots, good job champs! Hey why you're at it why dont you ask BW to do with the imbalance of Ops because from reading torparse. We're doing like 90% wipes, thats totally wrong!!!! Needs to be adjusted amirite?

[Muramxx]

Well I really don't believe Zhaker wants even matches just from all my years pvp'n and so I know his type but many people out there love to have even match premade v premade. Also, this doesn't really matter since there will always be far more casuals and so even if they did leave and no premader wanted an even match the q's would still be fast as casuals would all pvp.

 

I really don't believe that would happen though lol.

 

Also, Doom seems like someone that would like more even matches.

 

Unfortunatly most, by most at least on the forums, want to keep everything the same cause there are no issues except the lack of maps. They scream and cry and whine about boo hoo for PUG's you just want to have fun and in order for that to happen the "MINORITY" would lose on getting its win 90% of the time and 130+ coms a match and go to "oh man... we may or may not win the next match and only get 50 comms"

[Crawelc]

We just want to pvp. Thats what all you guys fail to understand. I have people I have played ths game with since february.. lots of them. I wont wait 30 mins for a que unless the game is down to one server and the fleets are down to sub 50. Either play the game or dont.

 

You guys that compain about gear gap also. There was a time in this game when there was no sub-50 bracket. Believe it or not there was no such thing as recruit gear and you went into 50 wzs with pve gear. The ammount of concessions given to make this game user friendly so far have been excelent. Dont doubt that they will tune this game to the lowest common denominator further just to make you feel like a special snowflake.

[Zoom_VI]

I think what the OP was reffering to mostly when he started this is those annoying double 4-mans groups that specifically q for it and yes it is really easy to do despite what some other have said, I have done it with my raiding guild for the sake seeing what would happen.

 

The problam is when you have a situation like I had a while ago where I go into a match against the best pvp guild on my server, a guild that is renowned for being unbeatable and actually is auged, min/maxed, full WH etc. a 8 man goup of em they of course three capped in the first 30 seconds and actually went and stood under the spawn and killed us all as we spawned no kidding all 8 of us in our respanw at the same time every 30 seconds. I then find myself stuck against those same 8 people for the next 3 warzones, any fun? heck no.

 

Now I have no problems with premades in non-ranked as long as they are not a double 4 man or 4 & 3 mans. honestly on Jung Ma right now the PUG groups are as nasty and competative as any premade minus the voicechat. Couse i won 3 out of every 4 solo q'd warzones last week so i might not be representational of whats going on on other servers

 

All this about gear based q'ing is not the solution, considering people just dont go poof from full recruit to full BM to full WH and figuring out a way to determine where people should be placed would be impossible particularly when one can change their gear once they enter the warzone.

 

The best solution in my opinion is to make the pvp q like the regualr group finder where people set their role and teams are allotted out for an optimal mix of dps tanks and heals. This wil stop those really unfair warzones of Team A has 5 tanks and three dps while team B has 1 tank 2 healers and 5 dps, guess who is gonna win - Team B of course. team A just doesnt have the dps to do it peroid regardless of gear. where as with a group finder situation team A would have 1 healer 3 tanks and 4 dps while team B has 3 tanks one healer and 4 dps way more fair than before.

[cashogy]

how is this thread even this long? this is an mmo, to even suggest that grouping should be discouraged is asinine.

 

if you dont like 4 man premades in wzs, dont queue up. if you feel so strongly about it that you feel the need to come to the forums and post about it, perhaps pvp just isnt your thing. you can always pve or level and alt, plenty to do in game besides pvp

[Muramxx]

-.- ya know a 50 comm lose (should be 80 if you and your team are any good) in ranked is still more than a 140 comm win in normal? The only difference, is normal is easier to start than ranked.

 

Correct, because premades refuse to play ranked against each other when there are enough of them to make a decent que. They choose not to.

 

And no, the math is not off. You have a Solo and a Premader, both are an individual. As an individual, you are being asked to find 1-3 other people. As a premader, that individual is being asked to find exactly 7 other people.

 

No a premade is not an individual, a premade is a group of friends either in game and sometime...real life because there is something out there if you open your door.

 

So while you can find even just 1 person to up your odds, a Premader must find exactly 7 more. Oh btw... even by your logic that a Solo player needs 1-3 and a Full premade only need 4 more... 4 is greater than 1, 2, or 3!

 

A premade wouldn't be a premade if it was just 1 person... If it was 1 person getting people together for a match... it would be a PUG... that's kind of the deffinition of a PUG

 

Can't ask someone to do something you won't. We have found our 3 other playes, you have not. You tell us to find 4 more people and get out of your Wz. We say "We don't see your name on it."

 

I am asking just as much from them as they are asking of me.

 

>.> take a moment and wonder what about the Premaders who run in a group of 1 Wh, 2 Bm's, and a recruit BM mix. Think it doesn't happen? Think again! By your selfish words, you would have those 4 friends either not PvP togther, or try and bring BM's into ranked. You lose nothing if you lose in a WZ, in fact you gain 80 comms. A premade in ranked loses rating.

 

It does, but gear is only part of it but people tend to get fixed on what they can fight on forums and try to ignore the rest. Lets say we have 2 equally gear groups... but alas one side is premade and has 2 healers a good tank and the rest they picked up are dps and whatever. The totally random group is healerless. sorry to say but if you don;t have heals and cannot kill theres it doesn't matter if you are in gear that is comparable you have to hope they suck and odds are as a premade... they don't.

 

<.< Ranked does not equal 4 man premade's home. Normal WZ is not your play ground. Pretty simple. With that, I'm done for not until someone posts with something intelligent.

 

Nope ranked is where people who want to make premades should go to better themselves as a player. To be around people that are like minded and have that challenge and fun you all "claim" to want

 

@DarthRakia: Yep, I'm all for matchmaking and evening things up, I'm just messing with these peeps cause I'm tired of people throwing wid accusations about their better's character. Also, watching them squirm with simple, realistic facts is kinda fun.

 

Your facts some are good, however some are down right horrible. The ones that are horrible that you get called out on you tend to ignore that you where called out about and you move on or change the subject.

[Muramxx]

how is this thread even this long? this is an mmo, to even suggest that grouping should be discouraged is asinine.

 

if you dont like 4 man premades in wzs, dont queue up. if you feel so strongly about it that you feel the need to come to the forums and post about it, perhaps pvp just isnt your thing. you can always pve or level and alt, plenty to do in game besides pvp

 

I don't expect you to read all 60+ pages but you missed the point completely with the thread.