It's always "you can do more" everyone can always "do more" so that is a lousy excuse. Your right no one forces me to que. it's either that or quit. what would you like for me to do? hurt the que or continue to get smoked. Now imagine that on a larger scale. The reasons I listed are completely valid as I see it in general all the time "looking for WELL GEARED players for a group." I don't complain about anyone being OP or boo hoo this and that I simple say some people do not have the option for whatever reason. This thread wouldn' be this long if there wasnt a problem and everyone was happy. I am curious as to how long you have been playing because I get the feeling you have been around for awhile back when everyone one was trying to make guilds and get people to join them.those times have passed the only guilds that form up are the random person that asks for people to join just so they can have a guild tag then they boot everyone or the established that want nothing to do with you unless you are topish teir.

I am so glad you know when I log on and when/what I play, I mean I am fairly certain I know what I am doing when I get on better then you do so pro keep calling me a liar about how I play.. Maybe you should log on to any other MMO sorry but in the 20 years of playing them there has always always been the elitists vs the PUGs... it will always exists and yes look it and ask around anyone will tell you that there are more solo casual people that play on these games then the elites. And F2P would never of happened if people didn't quit but nice try saying "they all must have grouped up." that makes me . All you can do is insult and pretend that you know everything right down to me and when I log in and how often I group it's rather cute. I also enjoy that your idea of an MMO is "everyone must play in premade groups" *clap* there have always been and always will be PUG's and unless I am mistaken the G means groups, which means PUG's are still doing the MMO thing as much as you hate on it.

sounds good me.

Lack of effort isn't always the case, i do agree there are some sloths on the game. They are on both sides though. The PUGer that expects everything to be given to him and when he gets into a match goes to node and sits on it never moving and rakes in the comms. Then you have the premader guy has absoulutly no skill but hides behind the rest of his group awith 2 healers healing him thinks he is a God among men, putting forth no effort by leeching from his team. My first Char hit level 50 and immediately I saved up enough comms to get all the BM visable gear and put augments into it all. I play smart and do what I can to better whatever class I am playing. I am constently checking out builds for my classes and seeing how other people play to see if I can learn something new. I however tend to lose a lot more then I win. It's not because I am a horrible player and it's not always because I am paired with horrible players. It's That i get outclassed when it comes to my PUG team VS the premade team. It's like any sport you can have a star player but it doesn't matter if the rest of the team is crap. (not saying I am the best of the best, far from it but I take pride in that I am good and get commented on it.) But to get in a decent premade isn't easy as you all make it out to be especially if you have only been playing for 2 months why you may be asking because most premades/guilds are set in how they are and you have to meet their criteria. 1. You aren't the right AC 2. You don't have the Gear 3. We already got our people. 4. You are a commando. So I lose and drive on doing solo ques and maybe someday I will catch up with the "requirements" but it has nothing to do with lack of effort. has to do with elites being elites and wanting to keep it that way.

No, It's like this Abraham Lincoln got shot in the head, Who's fault is it? Booth who pulled the trigger, maybe the gun or bullet? Booth = premades Gun = messed up PVP system Bullet = PUG's Lincoln = actual PVP Premades use faulty system to dominate (Booth using a gun to get what he wants.) Eventually the majority of people will leave the game the majority are PUGS (The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger.) The eventuality of it is no more PVP for all because no one ques anymore. What once was good is no more because of a small group that wanted everything to be thier way (Booth (premade) wants it to be his way an no one elses because he doesn't like how the country is, he makes a plot gets a gun (the faulty PVP system) and uses it to his advantage. The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger forcing the bullet to leave (PUG's forced to leave because the PVP aspect is completely 1 sided and not worth playing.) Now Lincoln is dead because the minority got what they wanted (No more PUG's = longer Ques = the game bleeds out and dies.)

I am about 85% PUG 15% group. Try and take me 1v1. I built my merc around being a target. People look at me and think "Hey it's a merc and I am blah blah" because mercs are the worst PVP class because of utility. that's where skill comes in. I enjoy finding that one guy that is basicly being carried by his premade and thinks he is so good and getting him to pull noob mistakes, like chasing me down. If I am going to get PUGstomped I am going to find that one or 2 idiots, and farm them just like the premades are farming my team.

I have no issues taking down people on my merc. I do think they are underpowered in comparason to other classes as far as utilities go. I have a specific job set that I do well with. I am excellent 1v1 and tend to draw noobs away from nodes or doors (voidstar) because they think "It's just a merc and I am a maurader" i just burn them down in a couple of seconds, one less person on the battlefield for that team. Sometimes I can get 3 people to follow me and leave a node completely undefended and I just run around. I fully understand I will eventually die but I make it take as long as possible gives my team a much better chance to take the nodes. Same thing on defense, I can hold people off long enough to get reinforcements when that 2-3 guys tries to cap my point. I may not put out the dmg but I have some wicked endurance and make sure people have to give me everything to drop me.

It's a pretty simple question and no you haven't answered it you have danced around it why do you belive the top 20% deserve an easy mode but the other 80% doesn't? Your answer is simply "your a troll" and "read my ramblings" that in no way answer the question. Even if it's a tard response like "I worked to get where I am so I should be able to slaughter lesser people" that would be an answer. It only requires 1 maybe 2 sentences but you have to fill up an entire page and expect me to have a decoder ring to figure out what saying. Also you are dead wrong, games cater to the "casual gamers" as was pointed out before, because at the end of the day they make up most of the money that is going to BW.. The casual gamers are more likey to buy cartel coins in order to get things such as the +41 crystals because it's an easy way to give them a little more bang when it takes them 4x as long to get the gear the pugstompers get.

Not really, you like all the hardcore premade or die people dance around the subject rather then give stright answers. If you want a close game because it's so much funner then go against other premades which would give you a lot closer games (like has been suggested over and over.) It's not some "casuals" that do not like the system it's mostly across the board that the system is ****ed up. It's the casuals (who make up most of the player base) who want it to be as even as it can be, so that the "casuals" who make up most of the player base aren't getting beaten 24 out of 25 times. So yes all games eventually cater to the "casual" gamers (who make up most of the revenew, through subs and now a CStore) because if they didn't games would be very short lived. So call me what you will and dance around a completely legit question as all others who think the game should be built around the top 20%.

None of you want to admit that PUGstomping is your easy mode and you don't want that advantage taken from you. The question that is always avoided....

The bads come in all flavors though. Seen them on PUGs and seen them on premades. It's fun when one on a premade team memebers thinks he is a ****** because he has a team holding his hand, and he decides to break off from a node and go after me as I am passing by in the distance thinking "it's a merc I killed him before when I had 2 healers healing me." then gets completely pwned inside of about 3 secs. Premades tend to hide behind one another which is fine by me (kind of the point) but as a PUGer I am use to throwing down with 3 players at once when it's just a 1 sided stompfest, so when that one guy thinks he is the **** cause he won last time cause he had 2 healers healing him and tries fight me one on one.... it's a rude awakening and I make it my personal mission to pick him out, suck him into the open and kill him over and over. Hell I might as well farm medals off killing that one guy 20 times, if the premade group is doing the same thing to my team.

In my short time on the server I have heard nothing bad bad things about you guys, none of my handful of experiences on the PUGstomed side have changed it. We all know you make 2 groups then que with each other to give yourself the best chances of being on the same team so you can medal farm and PUGstomp. I personally would leave a game against you in a RWZ just out principle. no one likes playing against *******'s that like to ruin the game for everyone else.

It was ligitamate statement. I do both, I group with some friends now and then when they are on and I also PUG. But all the Elitists can say is "L2P", "Group up like us" and "you just want easy mode." You all do just as much QQ as the PUGers do. None of you want to admit that PUGstomping is your easy mode and you don't want that advantage taken from you.

+1 Exactly doesn't matter how well I play, I see it in general all the time "Forming a group, must be well geared." Guess I should just sit on nodes to collect the max amount of comm's possible from the PUG stomping so I can have gear and be a ****** player if that's what it takes to actually join a group then I can build up my skills.

So solo WZ's belong to all and RWZ's belong to the elite... got it. The elites and premades get /easy mode with PUG stomping and PUGs get **** on repeatedly? There is the elitiest mentality at it's finest. You claim you want fair matches then do the RW. your only excuse is the ques take to long because no one is doing them... There is a reason for that... because it's faster and EASIER to pugstomp which in essence means you have an /easy mode, and why would you want that advantage to disappear?

it's not hard to do they just Que up at the same time, as said several times in this thread. Let's say your in a guild you got 8 guys ready to go, you make your 2 groups and que at the same time. The odds are relatively high that they will be tossed on the same team because it's faster. The "random match making" that the game has isn't very random it grabs what is the fastest and easiest in the order it was qued. It's faster to grab two 4 man groups and toss some extra's on the other side then to split the two 4 man teams into two seperate games and then wait to find even more people.

In the last 2 days I have recorded fighting against 5 guilds on my server that can field a full RWZ team but chose to enter the solo que instead and completely decimated the PUG side. If I wasnt running into the same 4-8 man premade teams on a constant baises then I wouldn't have as big of a complaint. It seems like almost every match I play is a rotation of stunfest or smash rotation from a bunch of people in the same guild. enter match one: 8 man guild enter match 2: 8 man guild, different from the first enter match 3: 4 man premade enter match 4: the first guild again enter match 5: a new 8 man guild, different from the first 2 enter match 6: 4 man premade. enter match 7: na I have taken enough pug stomping for the day just like the other people I played with so congrats on killing the que a little bit. That was my night tonight I had 3 guilds pugstomping, that's just from the pubs side I have no idea how many guild are doing it from the Empire side as I didn't play any Empire groups. Then last night I had 2 other guilds doing the same thing, I was alternateing between them it seemed like til I quit. So I know it's not that the RWZ don't work, it's people would rather /easymode for comms, and turn around an say PUGers are trying to get the same thing so shame on them.

Since WZ's are pretty much the end game content. Yes they need more maps/game types. But only if they are nothing like huttball..... Win or lose I despise it.

Those 3 things you do stick with it's the rest that is garbage. I can't ask you to play with premade groups right... but it's ok for you to tell me I have to play against premade/groups and in order to win more matches I have to make a group? That is basicly telling me how to play no matter how you try to spin it. That's right no one does care... wait they do care because most of the game is PUGers, and it's actually the 15-20% of players or the "elitists" that don't care because life is good for them so f everyone else right? Like I said before let BW poll the game not the forums that the "elites" prowl like ghosts in a haunted house and you will see how wrong you are. The ques slowing down, the server merges, the F2P are all reasons of this. PUGers do care how ****** it has gotten and are leaving the game. Who do you think will pay for this... not them they moved on to better things, it's you that will suffer. So premade groups not having a premade que that wouldn't mess with their rankings and I dunno give them more comms for example would just be to extreme for practice that means PUGstomping is the practice ground? As I said you preach fairness but now and then you let the "I am better then you beause I do premades" slip out. I still don't see how your version of fairness is forcing PUGs to compete against premades but giving premades the option of playing each other or not.... because that's exactly what 2 ques would do either you PUG or you don't. tough to find everything with this many pages on here I am sure there are more.

I will help out on this one if you want. these games have ingame voice chat... I belive Everquest 1 (since I listed Everquest 2) also has in game voice chat if you turn it on. Lunia Chronicles http://gamelist.mmosite.com/g/lunia-chro… An action-packed arcade game that you can feel with your fingertips by manipulating the keyboard to issue commands for an unlimited number of combination attacks. Harmony between essential RPG elements such as character growth, community system and arcade game action. Soul of the Ultimate Nation http://gamelist.mmosite.com/g/soul-of-th… SUN - Soul of the Ultimate Nation is an action RPG game developed by Korean studio Webzen. Currently, it is undergoing open beta testing in Korea. Considering that Sun enjoys more Asian features in regard to its design and style in its three MMOGs scheduled to be released in North America and Europe this year, Webzen has set out to adjust some contents of Sun to cater to the tastes of European and US players. EVE Online http://feature.mmosite.com/eve/ EVE is a massive multiplayer online game (MMOG) set in a science-fiction based, persistent world. Players take the role of spaceship pilots seeking fame, fortune, and adventure in a huge, complex, exciting, and sometimes hostile galaxy. EverQuest II http://gamelist.mmosite.com/g/everquest-… EverQuest II is the next generation of massively multiplayer gaming, a huge online world where friends have come together for adventure and community. Featuring breathtaking graphics and vast, beautiful and dangerous game world to explore, EverQuest II sets the standard for graphical realism as players are immersed in the game's exciting locales and mysterious lands. Dungeons and Dragons Online http://gamelist.mmosite.com/g/dungeons-_… The bustling frontier city of Stormreach, a cauldron of ambition and secret plots, has grown safe and secure as the only gateway to the riches of Xen'drik. But now danger threatens! Few explorers who set out adventuring the lands ever return, and those that do bring back only tales of death and destruction shall I continue? or is that enough?

The point in that was that Doom flip flops badly. One sec, is all for fairness and you can't tell people how to play then next she is saying f you PUG's deal with losing or PLAY HOW I PLAY... . lol it's the deffinition of ironic. Yeah Doom has some good idea's but as several people have pointed out she has some really bad ones that would just keep us in the same place we are now, and when called out on the crap ones she flip flops then gets called out and flip flops back. I don't care if I get beat honestly lol. That's the funny part that you seem to be missing getting beat is part of any game undenably however getting beat over and over no matter what gear you have kills any enjoyment someone has in the game... that means... hold on for it... LESS PEOPLE TO PLAY AND THEN NO MORE GAME. you all really need to look into the future rather then the now. I am more concerned with no ques and a dead game then if I get beat, maybe you should do the same and think more about what you want... a dead game because you PUGstomp every match or a game that starts building a bigger player base and gets better with time.

1) Agree better match making. 2)Cross server que... never going to happen so I don't know why people are fixated on this.... 3) self reliant... which would be relying on yourself not a GROUP... so that means PUGs are more self reliant in some ways then Premades. I go back to what I said before. You believe in better match making, if that match making means that people can do as they are doing now. Example 2 groups or 4 que at the same time and have a good chance of being together PUGstomp, cause odds are they are on the same side. which goes back to the facts I posted ealier that the servers are all one sided, because people hate to lose and side with the group that has more premades in an attempt to win. On my server almost all of the premades I encounter are on the pubs side, also I seem to see a lot of the same people over the past month PVPing on the Empire side and a slue of different names and guilds on the pubs side. There is no fair match making system unless you alot so many healers/tanks/dps on each side and then toss in a gear filter.... you want to talk about a long que, that would be a very long one. The closest you will ever get to giving everyone a challenge is to seperate the ques. There are lots of games that do this allow for people to randomly get pushed into groups or teams. You continue to say PUGers are crying, we are cause we want a challenge not a spanking 85% of the time. You keep saying there is no excuse to split the 2 but really what is the excuse not to? because the que will be longer... oh no wait an extra 10mins to get into a game. That just shows a very very bad elitiest attidue. Everytime you comment on something there is an underlying message, You think it's ok for premades to destroy PUGs over and over if it keeps the que time down... well guess what... the que time is going to go up drasticly when people stop quing. Then the outcome that has been stated many times will happen premade will fight premades and there will be barely any PUGs. So splitting the que, while this will raise the que time a little, in the end will allow for two decent ques rather then one ****** one and a dead game. Of course I belive you said you would rather the game ends in one post. It's a give some take some issue and you need to realize this both sides will lose something but gain something as well.

I highly, highly doubt that you don't run into back to back 8 man premades because the que just decided "hey, i am not going to match these 2 groups together that have been waiting for ranked for 2 hours for ***** and giggles." I still haven't decided what exactly you want... one sec your preaching even matchmaking, the next your all about premades can do what they want and PUGstomp cause they choose to just like you choose to not do ranked. reading what your write on here is as painful as watching the elections, the canidates flip flop and dance around everything trying to appear smart. Ranked was made so that groups of 8 could play groups of 8... more or less guild level yet here they are still tooling around in the solo Que.... yet all you can say is... "they chose to so quite crying"... ok I choose to play against other PUGs, where is my option for that?? I can probably type your response to this post myself with how much you talk on here, my biggest question would be which post to type. The "we need even matchmaking" or the "they choose to do it just like you can choose to do ranked." The point is that the 10% of Elitists get to choose how PVP goes? Screw the other 90%?

Or you could... get this... use the rank system that's why it is there and don't give me crap about how long the que is for that, because that is the premades choice to not do ranked. So if you can choose to not play premade vs pre made why can I not choose to play PUG vs PUG? The last 2 matches I just played guess what both times the entire other team was a guild. I decided I would start writeing down the guild names that I see that have enough to field an entire 8 man team. Of course even then I would only see who is doing this on the pubs side for the most part since I am empire.