Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[Slashtwo]

DoT clear!

 

There's no point in cleansing a pt's combustable off the flamebust as a dps merc. It'll be reapplied almost instantly and you've just lost a gcd.

[TheronFett]

Playstyle is rediculius...

 

So is your spelling.

 

Nearly every single one of your points is inaccurate, as proven time and time again by the multiple nerf Powertech/Vanguard threads that pop up weekly on the PvP forums. The class is easy to kill. Kill them.

 

My guess is, the OP is another saber swinger who doesn't realize a PT/VG has started his rotation on him, then is 1/2 dead before he closes the gap. Which only makes him dead even faster.

 

[okwathne]

Railshot is instant, but when you meet someone, you do need to get them burning/bleeding and so on with a dot for it to work....

So it is just "instant".

 

Don't play a powertech, but pyro merc myself....

And we can't go on forever with it, we overheat (pretty sure, it is not better for the powertechs.....)

I can pack a blast, and if im alone, i overheat, or i can put in some extra to kill off someone not caring about overheating....

Depends on situasions.

L2P....

I have defenitly not mastered all combinations of who i meet....

That does not mean my oponents needs nerfs.....

[SajPl]

So is your spelling.

 

Nearly every single one of your points is inaccurate, as proven time and time again by the multiple nerf Powertech/Vanguard threads that pop up weekly on the PvP forums. The class is easy to kill. Kill them.

 

My guess is, the OP is another saber swinger who doesn't realize a PT/VG has started his rotation on him, then is 1/2 dead before he closes the gap. Which only makes him dead even faster.

 

 

Actually fighting on equal terms a saber swinger has the same chance of beating a pyro as a pyro has to beat him (all have their cooldowns etc) for example :

sentinel 4 defensive cooldowns, even better single target damage enough said

infiltration shadow 7k project enough said

tank shadow 5 sec immunity to tech and self healing that hits like a truck enough said

gunslinger 5k aimed shot, immunity to pull, wont let the pyro come close (leg shot) enough said

 

Pyro can be very easily countered by most classes bad players will allways be bad.

Edited May 29, 2012 by SajPl

[Roiz]

The cooldowns he meant were the cooldowns of adrenal, relic and +25% crit skill. You know, the requirements for our amazing burst- every 2-3 minutes. Outside of that window our damage is roughly the same as combat sents.

 

Sentinel is melee class with 4 meter range, can be kited for ages, PT is 10-30 meter range, see the difference?

[Dani]

Well, the only weak points they have are that they're squishy and that they need to be in melee range to be 100% effective(which is not hard for a powertech to obtain).

On the other hand, they have the best burst in the game atm, good utility (stun, aoe stun, pull), can kite with no problems, are not subject to interrupts of any form (which is fine).

What i don't find fair is that if you play the same spec as commando, it's nowhere near as good as it is for vanguard, it's just decent.

The result of marauder/assassins/powertechs being op was caused by the ranged classes nerf + healing nerf.

The solution is not nerfing the 3 classes above, instead they should give a little more healing bonus coming with expertise and put ranged class back to being worth playing... And don't say stuff like "i can still wreck ppl with my sage/commando", i know it's still possible, however they're not as good as they used to be. Not to mention that anyone would take one of the 3 classes listed above in a premade instead of a commando or sage dps.

I would pay to have 90% armor pen on hib for my commando instead of 30%

 

So in short, buff ranged pls

Edited May 29, 2012 by Dani

[Roiz]

Well, the only weak points they have are that they're squishy and that they need to be in melee range to be 100% effective(which is not hard for a powertech to obtain).

On the other hand, they have the best burst in the game atm, good utility (stun, aoe stun, pull), can kite with no problems, are not subject to interrupts of any form (which is fine).

What i don't find fair is that if you play the same spec as commando, it's nowhere near as good as it is for vanguard, it's just decent.

The result of marauder/assassins/powertechs being op was caused by the ranged classes nerf + healing nerf.

The solution is not nerfing the 3 classes above, instead they should give a little more healing bonus coming with expertise and put ranged class back to being worth playing... And don't say stuff like "i can still wreck ppl with my sage/commando", i know it's still possible, however they're not as good as they used to be. Not to mention that anyone would take one of the 3 classes listed above in a premade instead of a commando or sage dps.

I would pay to have 90% armor pen on hib for my commando instead of 30%

 

So in short, buff ranged pls

 

Problem is not with ranged classes and marauders, they are fine and balanced. The problem is POWERTECH = CHEAT MODE ON. It is not acceptable to do a ranged instant cast damage without armor mitigation. If powertech doesn't deserve a nerf let's all melee remove colldown from the charge, let's do snipers all it's abilities instant cast without cover.

 

If powertech can do instant abilities from the range why sniper cannot. Why guardian cannot do spammable charge?

 

Powertech playstile is fire dot rocket on the target than do flame burst and railshot on the move, 3 button rotation and the highest damage in the game. Why not to do the same with let's say juggernault, spammable charge, than overhead slah with no cd, the same 3 button rotation for all melee. Charge as much as you wanted and do your strongest attack without cd, cool right. Why melee should wait 15 sec until next charge if powertech can do ranged damage on the move and slow targets at the same time. Or buff sniper the same way, give them snipe 100% armor penetration, being instant cast on the move and used without cover, nice.

[Dani]

Problem is not with ranged classes and marauders, they are fine and balanced. The problem is POWERTECH = CHEAT MODE ON. It is not acceptable to do a ranged instant cast damage without armor mitigation. If powertech doesn't deserve a nerf let's all melee remove colldown from the charge, let's do snipers all it's abilities instant cast without cover.

 

If powertech can do instant abilities from the range why sniper cannot. Why guardian cannot do spammable charge?

 

Powertech playstile is fire dot rocket on the target than do flame burst and railshot on the move, 3 button rotation and the highest damage in the game. Why not to do the same with let's say juggernault, spammable charge, than overhead slah with no cd, the same 3 button rotation for all melee. Charge as much as you wanted and do your strongest attack without cd, cool right. Why melee should wait 15 sec until next charge if powertech can do ranged damage on the move and slow targets at the same time. Or buff sniper the same way, give them snipe 100% armor penetration, being instant cast on the move and used without cover, nice.

 

The only balanced ranged dps class is sniper

[Steele_dk]

Haven't bothered to read most of the posts, but I can say that PT Pyro (which I've played since launch) is probably a bit OP. I'm more of a PVE person and just recently started PVP'ing. I've got 600 expertise on my character (not even a full battlemaster set) and I'm consistently getting over 300k damage per match....with my raid build (8/2/31). I would put myself in the "good not great" category skill-wise. I am far from the best out there.

 

I think what makes Pyro's so deadly is their range of skills melee range all the way to 30 meters (DOT move, railshot, unload, and TD are all 30m range). Very difficult to combat for just about any class. Range dps is screwed when I grapple them and interrupt. I usually have melee bled down to 60% health by the time they get to me. However....is a marauder surprises me I have no chance, just like everyone else lolz

 

Having both fought alot of of pyro pts and played a friends i think what makes them deadly is they can start the fight at range (giving advantage vs melee) and that all their attacks apart from unload is instant. They also have alot of advantages from core class setup that is strong vs others, like they have heavy armor but all their main attacks cept railshot bypasses armor making the advantage vs melee even greater. And as you said yourself, the ranged can just be grappled into range

 

I would definitely like a powertech myself, they are loads of fun, but i would never spec pyro, it is simply just too easy but that is just me. I like the AP tree.

[Twor]

Sentinel is melee class with 4 meter range, can be kited for ages, PT is 10-30 meter range, see the difference?

 

And apple tastes different than an orange.

 

And like stated in countless posts, PTs deadly range is 4-10meter. Not 10-30m.

 

Also PTs can not spam Ion pulse why they close the gap. They close the gap so that they can spam Ion pulse or stockstrike to reset the CD of hip every 6 seconds.

Our 30m instants are hip (cd), inc missle (seldom used without reserve powercell, due to the high cost) and TD. Which all have CDs beside inc missle.

[Silwyth]

Sentinel is melee class with 4 meter range, can be kited for ages, PT is 10-30 meter range, see the difference?

 

Terrible Sentinel spotted. Perhaps you should put this ability on your bar http://www.torhead.com/ability/9V1Xgd/leg-slash. That is a snare for the same movement reduction as a PT's AND it last 6x as long! You may also want to try this one out http://www.torhead.com/ability/bu0YniB/force-leap. It does wonders for getting close enough to use that snare on those pesky PTs that can only create a gap by blowing their stun once you do get into melee range.

[mulzii]

Using a sniper as a comparision is just silly. My sniper can drop a target in half the time it takes my PT to drop it. Plus while in cover/entrenched you wont be able to leap to me or pull me out of cover. With the 30m shield, plus shield probe, plus my kb that knocks you way the hell away, plus int probe, you will never get to me before your eating dirt orrun away and LoS me and hope i focus someone else.

 

Now my PT on the other hand, needs to be within 10m. Now if you were a GOOD melee, you dont stay at 10m, you either 'joust' with the PT, meaning you get outside the 10m range, use your throws, range cc's, and then leap back in, or you stay within your hit range (4m), and cc the PT and burst them down.

 

I'm decent on my PT, and will win most of my 1v1 fights. BUT its not a testament to my skill as much as its a testament to the other players having no clue how to fight. 90% of people i fight do the same thing: They start off with a CC, then they rush in and expect to tank me while not moving. Since i can circle strafe and get in/out of their hit zones, and do'nt sit still for them, i tear them to pieces as they sit there wondering why i'm jumping all around them, burning them down in an efficient manner.

 

And back to the CC, most people use it as a crutch. I'd estimate 95% of everyone i fight starts off with a CC, which is just silly. The good players use it strategically (preventing people from running to finishing them off, saving themselves for a quick heal/extraction/etc). Learn when to use your CC's, what PT skills to interupt, what to cleanse, etc. PEople put CC's into their rotation, which is the biggest mistake anyone pvping can do in my opinion.

 

I hate to say this, but this is really a L2P issue. Make a PT and learn how it works so you can counter it with your main class. LEarn how their CD's work, what makes RS hit so hard, how to avoid it, etc. And there's really no shame to get out of 10m and 'run away', to come back when your cooldowns are up. YOu still have throws/leaps,/pushes/choke you can do from range to keep the PT busy.

[Slashtwo]

Using a sniper as a comparision is just silly. My sniper can drop a target in half the time it takes my PT to drop it. Plus while in cover/entrenched you wont be able to leap to me or pull me out of cover. With the 30m shield, plus shield probe, plus my kb that knocks you way the hell away, plus int probe, you will never get to me before your eating dirt orrun away and LoS me and hope i focus someone else..

 

I mean, what spec are you on your sniper where an opponent cant leap you in cover with obliterate, or that you're specced into the snare on the int probe... did you really forego 30% crit damage bonus on your major abilities to get that 30% snare?

 

It's not really sounding like you play sniper... maybe like a level 42 one or something..

[SajPl]

Using a sniper as a comparision is just silly. My sniper can drop a target in half the time it takes my PT to drop it. Plus while in cover/entrenched you wont be able to leap to me or pull me out of cover. With the 30m shield, plus shield probe, plus my kb that knocks you way the hell away, plus int probe, you will never get to me before your eating dirt orrun away and LoS me and hope i focus someone else.

 

Now my PT on the other hand, needs to be within 10m. Now if you were a GOOD melee, you dont stay at 10m, you either 'joust' with the PT, meaning you get outside the 10m range, use your throws, range cc's, and then leap back in, or you stay within your hit range (4m), and cc the PT and burst them down.

 

I'm decent on my PT, and will win most of my 1v1 fights. BUT its not a testament to my skill as much as its a testament to the other players having no clue how to fight. 90% of people i fight do the same thing: They start off with a CC, then they rush in and expect to tank me while not moving. Since i can circle strafe and get in/out of their hit zones, and do'nt sit still for them, i tear them to pieces as they sit there wondering why i'm jumping all around them, burning them down in an efficient manner.

 

And back to the CC, most people use it as a crutch. I'd estimate 95% of everyone i fight starts off with a CC, which is just silly. The good players use it strategically (preventing people from running to finishing them off, saving themselves for a quick heal/extraction/etc). Learn when to use your CC's, what PT skills to interupt, what to cleanse, etc. PEople put CC's into their rotation, which is the biggest mistake anyone pvping can do in my opinion.

 

I hate to say this, but this is really a L2P issue. Make a PT and learn how it works so you can counter it with your main class. LEarn how their CD's work, what makes RS hit so hard, how to avoid it, etc. And there's really no shame to get out of 10m and 'run away', to come back when your cooldowns are up. YOu still have throws/leaps,/pushes/choke you can do from range to keep the PT busy.

 

Pretty much this.

 

Good ranged wont let the pyro come close and kill him from afar.

Good malee will be in 4m and blow the pyro up because malee have better defensive cooldowns than a pyro.

I have a pyro and a sent and if you are a sent or a guardian and lose to a pyro you seriously need to think about plaing another class.

[kitsinni]

I'm glad to see after all these years of MMOs that people are still calling for nerfs based on completely wrong info!

[jizerai]

They are fine. You are just clueless.

 

I can't help to think of this whenever I see this being stated, regardless of my own opinion on the matter. :')

[Veeius]

Please remember that burst is the only thing the class has..

 

1) No it's not. It's REALLY REALLY not, and you do yourself no favors at all by using such hyperbole. It makes me want to ignore you not read anything elsee you have to say.

 

2) Even if it were true (which it is not), I would argue that that is very poor design but the answer is NOT to leave the over the top burst to balance for nothing else, I would instead say, give them things that other classes have (which, again, you already do).

 

If you want to argue that what you have outside your burst is not sufficient, ok, that's an argument you can try to make. But when you say you have NOTHING but burst, it reminds me of idiot rogues in WoW who would claim that they had nothing but dps - which was a baldface lie

[Jewa_taken]

Pretty much this.

 

Good ranged wont let the pyro come close and kill him from afar.

Good malee will be in 4m and blow the pyro up because malee have better defensive cooldowns than a pyro.

I have a pyro and a sent and if you are a sent or a guardian and lose to a pyro you seriously need to think about plaing another class.

 

Good QQers wont notice the pyro until 2/3 into the burst rotation and then scream OMGWTFBBQ The PT did 10k dmg in ONE GCD!!!

[DweezillKagemand]

They are immobile because :

their gap closer is on a 45 second cooldown so

THEY HAVE TO WALK ALL THE WAY TO YOU until they are in 0-10m range to be effective, have no leap or force speed, therefore they have bad mobility.

 

That's not mobility.

 

Mobility is the ability to use your abilities while moving - no cast times or channels (unload doesn't count). And 5/8 classes, as some earlier poster pointed out, don't even attempt to run out of your range. (Guardian, Sentinel, Scoundrel, Other Vanguards, Shadow). Plus, this is an objective based game, you attempt to run away, you lose the objective. Not to mention, once you're in 10m it's impossible to escape you.

 

The range argument is terrible, try harder.

[DweezillKagemand]

Pretty much this.

 

Good ranged wont let the pyro come close and kill him from afar.

Good malee will be in 4m and blow the pyro up because malee have better defensive cooldowns than a pyro.

I have a pyro and a sent and if you are a sent or a guardian and lose to a pyro you seriously need to think about plaing another class.

 

People who spell melee as "malee" don't deserve to talk about game balance.

[Twor]

1) No it's not. It's REALLY REALLY not, and you do yourself no favors at all by using such hyperbole. It makes me want to ignore you not read anything elsee you have to say.

 

2) Even if it were true (which it is not), I would argue that that is very poor design but the answer is NOT to leave the over the top burst to balance for nothing else, I would instead say, give them things that other classes have (which, again, you already do).

 

If you want to argue that what you have outside your burst is not sufficient, ok, that's an argument you can try to make. But when you say you have NOTHING but burst, it reminds me of idiot rogues in WoW who would claim that they had nothing but dps - which was a baldface lie

 

No need to hyperbole here either.

 

What can the Pyro do beside burst? We can't defend objects because we are squishy, we can't carry the ball (mobility, no charge and squishy with no defensive CDs), we can't heal, we can't guard. We can't slip behind enemy lines to await passes in strategic locations or try stealth caps. We can not pin down several people for a few seconds strategically while popping defensive CDs.

 

The thing a Pyro brings to the team is burst- single target burst. Or what do you feel so strongly that a Pyro brings to the team?

[kitsinni]

People who spell melee as "malee" don't deserve to talk about game balance.

 

Dude being a spelling/grammar nazi on the internet is pretty much the lowest form of trolling.

[DweezillKagemand]

No need to hyperbole here either.

 

What can the Pyro do beside burst? We can't defend objects because we are squishy, we can't carry the ball (mobility, no charge and squishy with no defensive CDs), we can't heal, we can't guard. We can't slip behind enemy lines to await passes in strategic locations or try stealth caps. We can not pin down several people for a few seconds strategically while popping defensive CDs.

 

The thing a Pyro brings to the team is burst- single target burst. Or what do you feel so strongly that a Pyro brings to the team?

 

I remember when DPS Operatives used the same excuse. Burst is all you need in a game where you can kill most people in a single rotation.

Edited May 29, 2012 by DweezillKagemand

[Twor]

That's not mobility.

 

Mobility is the ability to use your abilities while moving - no cast times or channels (unload doesn't count). And 5/8 classes, as some earlier poster pointed out, don't even attempt to run out of your range. (Guardian, Sentinel, Scoundrel, Other Vanguards, Shadow). Plus, this is an objective based game, you attempt to run away, you lose the objective. Not to mention, once you're in 10m it's impossible to escape you.

 

The range argument is terrible, try harder.

 

Erm actually having gap closers on small CDs with no other requirements is mobility as well. Or don't you think you are far more mobile if you can cross big gaps reliable with short CDs.

 

And why exactly is the range argument terrible? Because it is true and a Pyro who isn't between 4 and 10 metres can not even unload his burst?

And yes its impossible to escape because there are no speedbursts, slows, kbs, stuns in this game.

[hyuplee]

Next time I hear someone saying how marauders should stop being so defensive about their classes, I'll redirect them to this post. Dude, chill out. Power tech ain't gonna get a nerf because there's simply not enough whine post to warrant one.

 

Marauder on the other hand...