My problem with what your saying is 2 fold. First, if you're not with a healer, you're a waste of a slot. A decent mara is MUCH more durable than you are. Second, you have virtually no ability to kill anyone. Your damage is EASILY healed through. You know what's better than spamming taunts at someone trying to kill your healer? KILLING the guy trying to kill your healer. To the OP, right now, juggs are ok. In 2.7, reroll.

I'm confused - if alacrity is utterly useless, is zen kind of worthless in Ataru?

I have been told that at one point in the game's history, tank companion shields didn't work, so shield & absorbtion rating were worthless. Has this been addressed? Or should I eschew shield & absorbtion & focus only on defense for my tank companion?

From a pve perspective: 1) We don't have stealth 2) We don't have a meaningful cc 3) We don't have self healing I think it's unfair that some specs have 1, 2, or even all 3 of those, and juggs get 0. It wouldn't bother me so much but there's several h2's I don't have a hope of soloing at level, whereas my op can pull off ALL h2's and at least 1 h4, and not just pull it off, but do it EASILY. Sleep dart a jawa, slice a droid, then rock the remaining droid and whatever else there is in the pack. Oh, a pat rolled up on me while I was not bothering to pay attention (as I must do on my warrior)? No problem, overload the stealth device. I feel juggs suffer SEVERELY in solo pve, but, I believe that that's the ONLY part of the game where juggs suffer. I don't think we're bad in groups, raids, or pvp. I DO, however, feel that we don't particularly dominate in any other field of the game, so I don't see the harm in giving juggs a cc, even if it ONLY worked on npc's, that would be a MASSIVE increase in QoL.

I'm confused, why would you talent shien form as a tank? Also you talk about impale as a dps boost, but it's not talented? Also, 365 damage over 6 seconds? Is that REALLY worth 2 talent points?

As a healer let me say that you're wrong. A normal mob WILL hit me for 2k a shot. Now, if I'm doing NOTHING but healing myself, I can outheal that all day long. HOWEVER, it turns out that as a healer, generally I have to heal my tank or he dies pretty fast. So if I'm smashing heals into my tank, and I'm losing 2k (or 4k or 6k) every 2 seconds, I'm going to get into a lot of trouble really fast, and have to decide if I want to save the tank or myself.

Juggs have 3 tools that work outside 10 meters. 1) Saberthrow: This shouldn't count as a tool because it does almost no threat at all. A healer can drop a BABY heal and out threat saberthrow. 2) Taunt: GREAT, but single target with a long cooldown. 3) Threatening scream: only 15m with a long cooldown. Now, if there's no knockbacks, mezzes or stuns you STILL are going to have a heck of a time getting more than 2 or 3 mobs on you instead of the healer. When there's 6, spread over 50 or 60m, AND you're getting stunned, AND you're getting mezzed AND you get knocked back the INSTANT you charge, before you can even use a move - yes, jugg tanks SUCK. I say this AS a jugg tank, AND as a healer. If I have an assassin or a bounty hunter tank, I know I mostly just have to focus the tank. If I have a jugg tank, I bubble him, bubble myself, hot myself, and stand right next to an LOS because I KNOW, that at least 1/2 of the mobs will start turreting at me.

....if you're a jugg, you can NOT get all the mobs within the first 5 seconds of a pull. You just can't. I don't care how good you are. If the healer has guard, that's 50% less damage that they take until you get stuff on you. ONLY the healer is going to aggro ALL MOBS SIMULANTEOUSLY. you people who are trying to be cool and saying you should never guard the healer, you don't know *** you're talking about.

I have an assassin tank, I have a jugg tank. My assassin doesn't have too much trouble with threat, even on packs that are spread out, even when there's mobs that stun, mezz, or knock back. My jugg - even if there isn't a mob that stuns, mezzes, or knocks back, it's charge one guy, saber throw another taunt another force push into a second mob, charge, smash, and oh, the guy I hit first is now on my healer, the guy I hit second is on one dps and so on and so forth. If I am TUNNELING something, I can keep a hold of it. But I sundering assault something then smash, then hit it with crushing blow, and if I look away from that mob for 3 or 4 gcds, it runs off to something else. How the hell am I supposed to get 6 mobs that are spread all over the place on me, when I struggle to keep one guy on me for more than a few gcd's at a time?

learn how to play op. Guarding the healer makes sense. It may not make sense to have the healer continously guarded, but any tank who doesn't guard the healer initially is bad.

Your gear sucks. Get better gear with more expertise. Also, you should really be complaining about an ac that's ACTUALLY OP, like, I dunno, pt pyro's.

What exactly is fully optimized? Power and str seem REALLY close to each other if you have dreadnaught talented. Surge?

20% is not 20% to bw. What I mean is that I've done as many as 53 RE's to get a pattern. While that was a fluke, I routinely will do between 10 to 25 RE's. I've heard all sorts of theories about why that's the case, and things you can do to increase your chances, but honestly it all fits into the "onyxia deep breathes more" category. The bottom line is that You should not routinely have to do 10 to 25 RE's to bet a pattern - but I pretty much always do. So... RE'ing black hole stuff? Yeah, no. It'll be a hell of a lot faster just to buy the pieces.

occasionally, ok, every single pack, it sucks, it's not fun, it's not funny, it's not cool. It sucks. Please please please use knockbacks/stuns/mezzs more sparingly on mobs. I say this as dps, but when I tank it's IMMENSLY annoying. Charge->oh, now I'm mezzed, oh, now my healer is being boned. Great.

Nice. The numbers were pretty good, I'm in 4/5 wh & all augments & the numbers you're getting are in line w/ what I get at 50 on decently geared targets. More importantly, though, your execution is nice & smooth. No back peddaling, no standing there for several seconds selecting a target or a skill. And the part where you & a healer fought like 6 guys for quite some time was very impressive. I like that you use guard when it's appropriate to do so. Many rage & veng juggs forget we, too, have taunt, guard, &c. &c.

Title says it all, I have nearly full wh, 1605 str w/ a might stim, 828 bonus damage, 101.9% crit multipler. My smashes range from 3.5k to 6.5k (though the latter is rare, and only on very undergeared people). I'm unclear how much str I should stack or if I should prioritize it over power, or surge.

Thank both of you!!!!! I didn't realize there was a "take cover" vs "take cover in place" binding. QoL dramatically increased! Thanks again!!!

So I've decided to level up at least 1 of every AC, and sniper is second to last (pt will be last). Snipers hit a freaking ton - but I don't think they're in any way op (like my sent), because of the multiple limitations of the class. All that said - it's very enjoyable to play. That is, except for one extreme annoyance. Target a mob, hit "f", and oh, look, I just rolled right next to an elite mob that was hanging around on the side. Is there a HUGE advantage to actually having cover vs. using just the screen? Because honestly, cover isn't worth it the vast majority of the time for me.

No, you're wrong. The chance that any given attempt will succeed is 10%. The chance that you will have 51 failures is less than 1%.... a lot less than 1%.

These are AFTER 1.3 dropped? Because I dunno how you're doing 7.5k smashes w/o adrenals up, unless your targets had 0 expertise. full wh w/ all power augments? Also: while you're playing at a level higher than mine, advice is advice: try to use chilling scream on targets that are running from you before you smash - if you don't you'll occasionally miss a smash.

First, we're not talking about immortal juggs, we're talking about rage juggs. Comparing a pt pyro to an immortal jugg is utterly nonsensical, one is a tank, one is dps. Next, it's arguable if harpoon is better than intimidating shout. If my cc breaker is up, then it does nothing at all, however harpoon does. And the aoe slow is NOT a better peel than harpoon. Harpoon INSTANTLY gets the bad guy off your healer, no questions asked, chilling scream doesn't, further, most ac's have a snare of some sort (in fact yours is AUTOMATICALLY APPLIED), so it's highly likely the healer is also snared. Bad guy snared AND healer snared means no peel at all. Look, crai as much as you want; I know that pt durability is damned near the same as rage juggs, I have both, I know what both can do. In fact, you COULD argue that pt durability is BETTER than rage jugg, as I have nothing that decreases the cd of saber ward, and I have to actually get hit for enraged defense to heal me. HOWEVER, I wouldn't buy that argument, because in the end, rage jugg durability IS close to pt pryo durability, not enough to be concerned about. The damage, however, is not even close. I'd go as far as to say that your burst is somewhere around twice the burst of a rage jugg; AND your sustained damage is higher.

To be fair I'd say that was pt pryo's, but mara's are a very close second.

You'd be right if the only thing the healer did was spam heal themself and the tank just spectated. However, on my jugg? BOTH of those dps will be dead LONG before the healer is in serious trouble. Why? You charge, I chilling scream and force push, you're out of the fight for about 8 or 10 seconds, choke the other guy and oh, the healer now has enough time to get a nuke heal on himself, then I aoe taunt, that's 50% damage reduction from guard and another 30% damage reduction, mean time the healer, now with plenty of health and taking 300 point hits from you, is going to start to burn YOU down (along with me). Healer + tank >>>>>>> 2 dps. Now, add in a cross heal add in a dps pt who is going to yoink you away from the healer (and utterly destroy you in 3 gcds because that's what they do) and so and and so forth. Grand luck killing a healer in that environment unless you're in an organized team, and even then, grand luck. Guard, taunt, cross heals, and peels - healers become damned monsters, couple all of that with the fact that even in BAD gear they can erase all the damage a dps could do in just 2 heals - and yeah, healers are pretty tough.

So.... you can't taunt? You don't have the single best peel in the game (shared w/ assassins)? You can't snare anything? you don't have a stun that allows you to continue doing MASSIVE damage (as opposed to my stun which STOPS my damage except for one tiny tiny tiny dot). I don't mind the tools you have, your tool chest is similar to my jugg. However, one of my guildies is a pt, and in a duel he beat me down in the time it took smash to come off cooldown. In other words, I did about 8k damage (between smash, scream, & ravage), he did 19k, both of us have augemented wh gear. Sorry, your damage needs a MASSIVE nerf. Your survivability is on par with mine. Are you suggesting that my damage be buffed to moronically high levels?

A rage jug smashes and does 5k damage to 5 people - 25k damage, and doesn't even really put anyone in danger. In the same amount of time, a powertech does 20k damage to 1 person (and kills them). Which is more valuable?