Combat log post of overpowered Operative burst

[Varicite]

Why are some of these responses telling me to use Force Stasis??? How could that possibly help me in any way, aside from prolonging my death by another 3 seconds.

 

Well, the fight lasted like 20 seconds anyway. It seems like you had plenty of time to win the battle if you had played your cards right. Or at least you could have sent the Op running.

 

The others are unfortunately right, there were some hefty mistakes in your gameplay, and you might have more success in the future if you listen to some (not all, some of them are terrible lol) of the suggestions. It happens; we all get outplayed from time to time. If we didn't, NONE of us would ever get any better.

 

There's definitely nothing too overpowered about this. Want me to show you what my Pyro PT can do for burst? : )

 

I assure you, one of us wouldn't be lasting 20 seconds.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Varicite

[Maxkardinal]

Thank you kind sir sor a portion of a good laugh! Edited May 3, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

[Trauglodyte]

The fight lasted 19s and you, as a Sentinel, couldn't figure out what buttons to push to pretty much destroy him? And yet, you're asking for a nerf against a class that did a whopping 3100 as its highest attack? You got out played and lost...this one, you've gotta take on the chin.

[Escarrabutxaques]

- Applied my dots, popped my def cooldowns (though I was at about 3k hp when this happened from the stunlock at the start which people say I shouldn't break).

You have 9k hp? You took 6210 damage when you removed the stun.

It even wasnt a stunlock, you had 1,5+ seconds window between knockdown and debilitate.

 

[20:39:59.371] [@Coop] [@Ehtom] [Hidden Strike {2200792782077952}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Knockdown {2200792782078223}] ()<---knockdown ends

[20:40:00.608] [@Coop] [@Ehtom] [Laceration {2176972893454336}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1276 kinetic {836045448940873}) <1276>

[20:40:01.682] [@Coop] [@Ehtom] [Debilitate {814802540691456}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (412 energy {836045448940874}) <412><---debilitate applied

 

1)When an operative opens on you, start immediatly spamming your stun/mezz button. Not all the operatives will "stunlock" you. There might be a window between their stuns, like there was one in the fight you posted.

2)As some people already pointed, in marauder/sentinel vs operative/scoundrel the initiative is what matters.

3)In 1v1 your goal is to force operative/scoundrel to use evasion/dodge and then root/dot/snare them

4)Don't use your master strike/ravage if they havent used their evasion.

5)Pop up your defensive cds as soon as possible, remember, its a burst class with bad energy regeneration.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Escarrabutxaques
update

[rotatorkuf]

their damage is fine

 

i don't play an operative, at least not at end game

 

but by standard gank and stealth rules, they should be able to kill you if they get the jump

 

where THEY DO NEED A NERF is survivability....that they can dodge, absorb, and just mitigate/deflect so much damage after they get their openers on you is pretty stupid....this is an AC that should be able to gank anyone quickly and stealth away, not jump someone and use crazy defenses to survive without much effort when they mess up their rotation, should be squishy

 

unfortunately, the way this class is designed (as a healer), the base abilities don't lend themselves to this idea, BW wants operatives to survive

Edited May 3, 2012 by rotatorkuf

[Haystak]

An equally geared player vs and operative will have 50% health left after the operative does his first initial burst, and giving you a whitebar due to his use of stuns. After that he is left with 2.5k attacks(3 really), and a 3.8k attack once every 12 seconds. Your defensive cooldowns should be popped about 3 seconds after being stunned, if the operative was lucky enough to get a complete crit opener, you should probably run, as lluck, and timing were on his side..... And here is why its fair.

 

From stealth an operative has the best opener, especially if he snags a red buff. and pops trinkets. You cant beat it for openers, it is beatable, but you have to know the class your fighting.

 

When engaging an operative who isnt stealth he has a below average opener, as he misses a DoT/Debuff/Knock Down application. The operative also has a lot less damage overall due to lack luster finishing moves outside of a stealth opener.

 

You died easily because

1: you failed to prevent operative from opening from stealth.

2: From the log you failed at interupting the operatives rotation, despite the fact that the operative opened round one with the upper hand, you used none of your classes abilities to even the fight, you alo used a get out of jail free card(force camo) to stick around for your impending death.

3: Due to your lack of stuns, kiting, or proper use of defensive cooldowns, you failed to impair the operative rotation in any way, he essentially treated you like a level 48 trash pull on Ilum, and you died just as quick.

4: You accepted defeat, instead of finding this operative while out of stealth and using your classes advantages gainst him.

 

 

Even after this class is nerfed 4 times, people still die to it. come to the forums, and cry. I do not think 1 more nerf will help you, as the last four obviously havent either.

 

 

TL:DR

You failed to play your class to its potential, did not realize it was a lost fight with 20% HP left, and stuck around to fight a lost battle. Simply put you screwed up in mulitple stages, dont be angry, happens to everyone, your not goign to win every battle you come accross, neither is he

Edited May 3, 2012 by Haystak

[Aetou]

You've got to be kidding me, Operatives have pretty much the worst survivability in the game (unless you are talking about Sawbones.) Now I admit, as a Sawbones I have been known to ninja nodes that are just guarded by one, undergeared player and in those situations when I chain my first three 3k crits together it looks like I'm not a healer but... I quickly run out of steam after that and those moves are on long CDs. Normal Operatives can restealth once every 2 minutes, the rest of the time if they get sneezed at they die in 3-5 GCDs against good opposition.

[ehtom]

From stealth an operative has the best opener, especially if he snags a red buff. and pops trinkets. You cant beat it.

 

You died easily because

 

1: you failed to prevent operative from opening from stealth.

 

So... thanks for supporting my case that they are overpowered "You cant beat it" is a pretty strong indicator that they need a nerf.

 

Also your first point is rofl... I can't stop him from opening from stealth, sentinels have no reveal spells like some other classes do. Your other points are interesting but what it seems to me that you are saying is I have to totally outplay him with 20% life to even survive let alone kill him.

[Varicite]

So... thanks for supporting my case that they are overpowered "You cant beat it" is a pretty strong indicator that they need a nerf.

 

Also your first point is rofl... I can't stop him from opening from stealth, sentinels have no reveal spells like some other classes do. Your other points are interesting but what it seems to me that you are saying is I have to totally outplay him with 20% life to even survive let alone kill him.

 

Where are you getting these arbitrary numbers like "20% life" and "1/3 health", etc?

 

Your combat log shows pretty clearly that you still had 2/3 health when you were able to react.

 

My Pyro PT will come in and crit you for 3k + 4k + 2.5k + 4k (~13k if not unlucky w/ Explosive Fuel) in that same amount of time, leaving you w/ far LESS health than any Operative opener. Snipers can do it even faster.

 

You got outplayed, and people have told you a few ways to prevent that in the future, and instead of taking ANY advice, you are arguing w/ them.

 

Why?

[Escarrabutxaques]

their damage is fine

 

i don't play an operative, at least not at end game

 

but by standard gank and stealth rules, they should be able to kill you if they get the jump

 

where THEY DO NEED A NERF is survivability....that they can dodge, absorb, and just mitigate/deflect so much damage after they get their openers on you is pretty stupid....this is an AC that should be able to gank anyone quickly and stealth away, not jump someone and use crazy defenses to survive without much effort when they mess up their rotation, should be squishy

 

unfortunately, the way this class is designed (as a healer), the base abilities don't lend themselves to this idea, BW wants operatives to survive

 

Uhm, and those "crazy defenses" are? Evasion (3 seconds duration 100% dodge on _white_ attacks), or shield probe (~2k damage absorb)?

[ehtom]

Where are you getting these arbitrary numbers like "20% life" and "1/3 health", etc?

 

Your combat log shows pretty clearly that you still had 2/3 health when you were able to react.

 

My Pyro PT will come in and crit you for 3k + 4k + 2.5k + 4k (~13k if not unlucky w/ Explosive Fuel) in that same amount of time, leaving you w/ far LESS health than any Operative opener. Snipers can do it even faster.

 

You got outplayed, and people have told you a few ways to prevent that in the future, and instead of taking ANY advice, you are arguing w/ them.

 

Why?

 

I'm not arguing with him because he agreed with me as per my quote. Against a pyro I can see him coming and pre-emptively pop defensive cooldowns. Also, pyros are really quite overpowered too, but that is another story (any half decent one easily tops the damage board with 1.5x the damage of the next highest class).

[JayPres]

Where are you getting these arbitrary numbers like "20% life" and "1/3 health", etc?

 

Your combat log shows pretty clearly that you still had 2/3 health when you were able to react.

 

My Pyro PT will come in and crit you for 3k + 4k + 2.5k + 4k (~13k if not unlucky w/ Explosive Fuel) in that same amount of time, leaving you w/ far LESS health than any Operative opener. Snipers can do it even faster.

 

You got outplayed, and people have told you a few ways to prevent that in the future, and instead of taking ANY advice, you are arguing w/ them.

 

Why?

 

Because he is so good, he sets the standard for his class in PVP and his tactics are undeniable.

 

Lime trees bare fruit at his command;

He's the only player to cap 4 turrets in the Alderaan Civila war WZ;

Before the 1.2 patch, bombardments looked for him; (He is....)

 

The most interesting player in TOR.

[Eszi]

Lazy parse:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/33ba41a2-f958-4b6d-82a8-ec4bcbfbcd89/player/1#d=2,t=1,b=2

 

Also, never had problems with operatives, so it's probably just you.

l2p

[Varicite]

I'm not arguing with him because he agreed with me as per my quote. Against a pyro I can see him coming and pre-emptively pop defensive cooldowns. Also, pyros are really quite overpowered too, but that is another story (any half decent one easily tops the damage board with 1.5x the damage of the next highest class).

 

I see, so basically any burst damage class that can actually accomplish burst damage is "quite overpowered".

 

Coming from the hands-down highest DPS class in the game that also boasts the most and best defensive cooldowns in the game on top of the most interrupts in the game, you don't think that's just a tiny bit laughable?

 

After all, you DID have a few windows of opportunity, and you wasted them on doing the wrong thing. That's YOUR fault, not a class being overpowered. You honestly could have killed him if you knew what to do, but it's obvious that you need a bit more practice against Operatives.

 

Unfortunately, you are really painting yourself as one of those players who would rather "cry on the forums" instead of learning how best to counter a class you're having troubles with.

[Lostpharoah]

Well I have to agree Ops are the biggest thorn in my side .. however I dont think they are OP.

 

I will quote myself from this thread

 

There is nothing wrong with any of the class's ..

It is the pedigree of the players playing the class's ! Thats what needs to be nerfed ..

 

For all our sanity please please .. NERF THE GOOD PLAYERS.. Its seriously unfair how some players are just better then others. This needs to be addressed and all good players should be brought on par with the wing nuts. How can anything be so unbalanced? why did the devs not consider how some players would have such a huge advantage over others, because of perhaps mmo experience etc .. how dare they. What complete insubordinate's those devs( whom put there heart into everything they do) are for not planning for this ..

And what is with all these techniques why are there so many class's to begin with? we should all play THE SAME ROLE, in pvp IE :

• Jedi Knights / Sith Warriors should be able to Tank, 1v1DPS, Area DPS, CC and heal
  
• Jedi Consulars / Sith Inquisitors should be able to Tank, 1v1DPS, Area DPS, CC and heal
  
• Troopers / Bounty hunters should be able to Tank, 1v1DPS, Area DPS, CC and heal
  
• Smugglers / Agents should be able to Tank, 1v1DPS, Area DPS, CC and heal
  

Having specific roles is just too complicated and all skills / attacks etc should work with the press of just 1 unified key.

omg omg omg omg omg the state of pvp NERF THE good players already !! sheesh

 

Ops are the scissors to sents paper .. as sents are paper to Juggs rock .. but consulars "Spock" us all !

[Stilly]

The wow forums used to have the same problem until the armory. That said I love watching everyone pretend they're good. Great for killing time at work.

[Vodrin]

Because he is so good, he sets the standard for his class in PVP and his tactics are undeniable.

 

Lime trees bare fruit at his command;

He's the only player to cap 4 turrets in the Alderaan Civila war WZ;

Before the 1.2 patch, bombardments looked for him; (He is....)

 

The most interesting player in TOR.

 

Well played sir, well played indeed.

[Raansu]

Bad sentinel is bad. I can let an operative waste his stuns and burn me down to 30% and I'd still win the fight. I seriously feel bad for how weak operatives are now. The last nerf they got was just too much imo but I guess people cried too much about being knocked down twice from their opener even though they had to burn a 3min CD to do it...

[NDiggy]

Long story short:

 

• You panic'd
  
• You did not make good choices
  
• You did not manage your target
  
• You don't understand that 3100 damage on you isn't a mindblowing amound of damage.
  
• You are bad
  

 

There's only one problem here, and it's PEBKAC.

 

I can tell by the tone of your insults you play an OP. If you can't see that their playstyle isn't fun for the OP or the person on the receiving end I don't know what to tell you. Yes, an OP can gib just about anyone. Yes the OP is just about worthless after that. Its not fun for the OP and it isn't fun to be gibbed. The playstyle needs to be changed.

[Madeira]

Yes, an OP can gib just about anyone. Yes the OP is just about worthless after that. Its not fun for the OP and it isn't fun to be gibbed. The playstyle needs to be changed.

 

Pump the brakes my friend.

 

The truest sign of a good Concealment Operative is his/her ability to pop out of stealth, drop a crap-ton of DPS, and then actually survive their now vulnerable state. Basic risk vs. reward.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are times where I want to toss my monitor out the window due to how badly my Operative can flounder once he is out of stealth. But being able to get that kill, or at least remove a solid chunk of health, and then get the heck out of dodge before I'm burnt to the ground is one of the main reasons why I play the class.

 

If I wanted stupid burst and endless survivability I'd roll a Sentinel. . . . . oh wait. . . .

[Superawesomerman]

I think op is a fotm reroll, you just need to get more practice.

 

he opens, does x damage, and will either hit you again, or stun.

 

You mez him in response, or trinket the stun and mez.

 

if he breaks your mez, you vanish (optional).

 

At this point, he is screwed. You just load him up with dots, out coodown him, zen + stasis to gain a third of your life back.

 

 

If you dont have trinket, spam rebuke/ward and hope you live out the stun then outcooldown him.

 

I lost to an op once, then dueled one of the better scoundrels on my server, and never lost to one since.

[Silly_Wabbit]

I have both a sent watchman, and a Conceal Ops....and I am in no way an Elite Player.

 

I have to say this, without even looking at your log, you didnt play properly against the Operative. I used to have problems with Ops as well when I was a Sent, but I learned how to p lay against them, as well as how to play that class in general and now I rarely ever lose a 1v1 against them, unless they are way better than me....or got the jump on me when I didnt have my cooldowns.

 

Don't take offense to it. Instead of asking for a Nerf to the class first, why dont you try to learn what you can do better. There were many posters stating you made mistakes, or you shouldve done B instead of A. They are right. Do the research on how to be better, I did that 2 months ago. Also, just because you cant beat someone 1v1, doesnt mean they are overpowered, it can mean they are better than you, can mean their class is your counter, or you didnt play well enough.

 

Whenever I get attacked by a Ops, I Mez them instantly first. pop all of my relics and defensive cooldowns, then use a priority rotation (Ops dont have a knockback so you can leap as an opener if you have it specced to have no min range)

 

I would like to tell you an exact step by step plan, but you havent earned it. read the forums on Sent rotations, practice on PVE mobs (elites are best) to learn a good rotation. That is what I did.

 

so TL;DR - First look at what mistakes you made, and then find out what you can do better, and practice.

[Oscibi]

So... thanks for supporting my case that they are overpowered "You cant beat it" is a pretty strong indicator that they need a nerf.

 

Also your first point is rofl... I can't stop him from opening from stealth, sentinels have no reveal spells like some other classes do. Your other points are interesting but what it seems to me that you are saying is I have to totally outplay him with 20% life to even survive let alone kill him.

 

You can run away..you could cloak..you have a speed buff. You dont have to stand and die.

And you can beat pyros because you can see them coming? What were you doing after the opener? closing your eyes?

 

pretty much you saw the first hit. panicked and started to mash keys and died. and came here to say ops need nerf.

 

Sent/mara have the best defensive cooldowns, and are one of the best classes for 1v1. l2p.

[RendakFel]

First, if you are going to post a combat log as evidence, you might want to review it first.

 

At the point you broke the second stun delivered by the operative, you had taken 6733. That was 5 seconds into the fight. At the point you used your Guarded by the Force defensive CD, you had taken a total of 12208 damage. This was an additional 5 seconds into the fight.

 

Your argument that you got "bursted" 12k hp in 10 seconds is invalid. That is marginally more then 1k dmg/sec.

 

Speaking from the perspective of a Pyro PT. If you give me 10 seconds of free dps time without using your CD's, won't live to use them.

[veyl]

So what your saying is, that you were beaten by a better player and that player happened to be an Operative.

 

And from your 1v1 experiences you think they need a major nerf. Sounds good.

 

This is the signature of the PvP forums since release. Problem is, the devs take the word of the whiners over the play of the better players. These pvp forums are a plague to the game.

 

Sidenote: They are actually funny most of the time! The things these kids come up with are hysterical.