Combat log post of overpowered Operative burst

[doctorfirepants]

Haven't operatives been nerfed like 27 times or something like that. They are fine as they are, probably a lil weaker than they should be. They def hurt, but they also go down fast if you know what your doing. If you play a sentinel you def have the abilities at your disposal to handle them, and if your not very good with your character then at the very least you should be able to force camo and get close to your team for support.

[doctorfirepants]

First, if you are going to post a combat log as evidence, you might want to review it first.

 

At the point you broke the second stun delivered by the operative, you had taken 6733. That was 5 seconds into the fight. At the point you used your Guarded by the Force defensive CD, you had taken a total of 12208 damage. This was an additional 5 seconds into the fight.

 

Your argument that you got "bursted" 12k hp in 10 seconds is invalid. That is marginally more then 1k dmg/sec.

 

Speaking from the perspective of a Pyro PT. If you give me 10 seconds of free dps time without using your CD's, won't live to use them.

 

I didn't read through the combat log, but if that is true and he used guarded by the force after only taking 6700 damage then that operative didn't beat him....he beat himself. This is nothing more than a l2p issue

[Oscibi]

I didn't read through the combat log, but if that is true and he used guarded by the force after only taking 6700 damage then that operative didn't beat him....he beat himself. This is nothing more than a l2p issue

 

why is that? guarded is my opener...

[Migrayn]

So the OP's biggest hit was 3184 from his opener from stealth and you think they burst too hard. Warriors hit harder then that my friend.

 

That was hardly over powered operative at work. That looked like he used every move he had to take you down.

 

If anything it shows operatives opening burst is a bit too low now and maybe they were nerfed too hard. Other classes hit way harder just they don't have to be in stealth and behind the target to strike.

hmml

Edited May 4, 2012 by Migrayn

[Campaigner]

Are concealment operatives considered OP on servers without good pyro powertechs, tankDPS assassins and marauders?

 

So slow... add some really good pyro powertechs in and you'll see how their damage trumps operative anyday. The ONLY plus concealment operative has is the element of surprise, which a truly good, alert PvPer would expect and be prepared for in a warzone anyways.

[Astarica]

The log says you died in 19 seconds so you took less than 1000 DPS on average. That means your Guarded by Force used early in the fight probably did more DPS to yousrelf than the Op did.

 

And 19 seconds isn't exactly a short time. I won't comment on the skill/decision because it's easy to talk about what you should do when it's not your character's life on the line. But I don't see anything grossly out of whack with an Operative killing a Marauder in 19 seconds.

[kweassa]

I'd advise the Ops/Scoundies drop the double standard.

 

While I do not agree with the contention that Ops/Scoundies are overpowered, I also do not agree to some of the whiny QQ bunch of Ops/Scoundies who act as if the world ended with the balancing that happened pre-1.2. If what the the original poster says is true, then its a pretty nice evidence that an Op that is even undergeared, can beat one of the most powerful classes in the game within 19 seconds and 12 moves.

 

Oh yes, skill difference played a crucial role, no doubt -- but then, that should also work both ways. We can easily arrive at the conclusion that If the Ops/Scoundy has enough skill, he can defeat enemies without problem.

 

I sure hope I don't see any Op/Scoundies who showed face in this post agreeing to any of the "Oh but we're so nerfed and weak, we need more sympathy" bunch of whiners.

[Ghamsar]

Lazy parse:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/33ba41a2-f958-4b6d-82a8-ec4bcbfbcd89/player/1#d=2,t=1,b=2

 

Also, never had problems with operatives, so it's probably just you.

l2p

 

explain that parse to me

 

he killed him in 6 GCD's

 

Hidden strike is 2 GCD's and Debilitate is another 2 GCDs....right?

 

So he he had to avoid those other 2 Hits?

 

14k HP

- 3184 Hidden strike (START)

-1,200 shiv(unavoidable)

-412 debilitate(Stunned)

-2900 backstab(unavoidable)

- 1279 lacerate(unavoidable) (end)

= 8975 dmg

 

add the ticks of poison 4 of 6= 1420 dmg

 

so 10,395 dmg in 4 GCDs...the OP had only ~4k HP left..which can be eaten in 2 more GCDs

 

the key to beating OPS is not taking taking those final 2 hits?

 

So Pop DEF abilities to hold off last 2 hits...but how long will it take you to do 15k dmg? Depends on AC, but that's a surprise advantage.

[Ossos]

I can tell by the tone of your insults you play an OP. If you can't see that their playstyle isn't fun for the OP or the person on the receiving end I don't know what to tell you. Yes, an OP can gib just about anyone. Yes the OP is just about worthless after that. Its not fun for the OP and it isn't fun to be gibbed. The playstyle needs to be changed.

 

Actually, I'm a PT. Imagine fighting 2 players at once...maybe..*GASP* 3 at once...You call that a gib, I call that Monday thru Sunday.

 

So much for your assumptions.

[kweassa]

I can tell by the tone of your insults you play an OP. If you can't see that their playstyle isn't fun for the OP or the person on the receiving end I don't know what to tell you. Yes, an OP can gib just about anyone. Yes the OP is just about worthless after that. Its not fun for the OP and it isn't fun to be gibbed. The playstyle needs to be changed.

 

No, the play style doesn't need to be changed.

If you don't like the play style, then you go play something else.

 

Ops/Scoundrels stand on the long tradition of stealth-rogue type classes in MMOGs. They are given the gift of stealth. They are also given powerful means of ambushing enemies, and with it, the the freedom to cherry pick the exact moment/situation one wishes to enter a fight, This comes at the expense of generally weak methods of self protection and inability to engage in open confrontation against other more heavily armed classes.

 

You want a different gameplay style? The ability to be able to fight in open, prolonged combat? Then the class must give up something. Give up the massive opening burst, give up stealth, in exchange for better protection and ability to engage in face-to-face combat.... except, we already have that playstyle. Its called the "BH/Trooper."

 

If you are asking for the class to be able to wield all the traits of the classic stealth-rogue type character, and still be able to battle enemies even outside of stealth, then you've clearly lost perspective, and simply asking for an I WIN buttton.

 

(ps) ...and don't be no bringing up *****tanks and shatanks, since they deserve a thread of their own. We're talking about Ops/Scoundrels here, not Shadows and Assasins.

[aRtFuL]

Well, the fight lasted like 20 seconds anyway. It seems like you had plenty of time to win the battle if you had played your cards right. Or at least you could have sent the Op running.

 

The others are unfortunately right, there were some hefty mistakes in your gameplay, and you might have more success in the future if you listen to some (not all, some of them are terrible lol) of the suggestions. It happens; we all get outplayed from time to time. If we didn't, NONE of us would ever get any better.

 

There's definitely nothing too overpowered about this. Want me to show you what my Pyro PT can do for burst? : )

 

I assure you, one of us wouldn't be lasting 20 seconds.

 

Hehe if he was playing against a quality mara sounds like he won't even last 10 - the mara probably don't even need to use vicious throw. He will probably got murdered on the last hit of ravage or the force scream that will come almost instantly after that.

 

I can visualize the fight already because I've 1v1 some bad sentinels before... very cringing for me to wtiness because it makes me think about all the potentials of that class wasted.

[Madeira]

I sure hope I don't see any Op/Scoundies who showed face in this post agreeing to any of the "Oh but we're so nerfed and weak, we need more sympathy" bunch of whiners.

 

First off I agree 100% with the post you made after this one (just didn't want to have an extended quote)

 

With that said OPs/Scoundrels were ridiculous when the game was released (in terms of the Concealment/Scrapper trees) and were promptly nerfed. Then came the surge/crit nerf that effected all classes but compounded the Concealment/Scrapper nerf. . . . and then came the adjustment to the cooldown (and Energy values) of one of their bread & butter DPS abilities.

 

That's 2.5 nerfs (I give half nerf-credit to the surge/crit nerf due to it hitting all classes) in the short life-span of a young game to one very specific tree of a specific Advanced Class. The first was justified, so was the second, but the third was a bit sketchy; but yet you still find threads like these where people are still upset.

 

As annoying as it is to have an OP/Scoundrel pop out of stealth, face-plant you, and then remove a solid chunk of your health, its what the class was designed for. You can look thru these threads and find countless posts of players pretty much laughing as OP/Scoundrels post-opener because at the end of the day they really are THAT inept post-opener. But when its all said and done this Advanced Class brings a playstyle that certain types of players enjoy (me being one of them)

 

So after those 2.5 nerfs, to hear more QQ about a class that has already been balanced (and make no mistake - after coming back to my OP I realize they really are quite viable from a Concealment spec perspective) you can't help but get a bit of push-back from a segment of a playerbase that is genuinely sick of the crying.

[sirbobert]

The fight lasted 19s and you, as a Sentinel, couldn't figure out what buttons to push to pretty much destroy him? And yet, you're asking for a nerf against a class that did a whopping 3100 as its highest attack? You got out played and lost...this one, you've gotta take on the chin.

 

Just in case anyone missed the synopsis on page 3.

[DarthVallik]

This was half over half my health when I could do nothing whatsoever. Its not about the better player when one player can't do anything before he's at 1/3 life with a ton of debuffs on him.

 

sounds like like when im fighting a marauder/sent and they use undying rage i stun they break and 5s is enough for them to take half my health

 

so whats the problem again?

[KBSIP]

OP is a classic example of a below-average PVP'er who thinks numbers excuse poor performance without actually reading them.

 

The operative is a class that is strictly a stirke-first win or strike-second lose class. IF you catch them first, using an ability to pop them out of stealth, you shut down their heavy opener and mitigate a large portion of what makes them a dangerous class. At this point, a good operative will begin running away if they're against a competent player. If they're against a baddie who got lucky with catching the operative in their FoV, they'll stay and try to win the 1v1.

 

IF the operative gets the jump on you, in a balanced world, they should win, because their strengths are situational and balance out against their situational disadvantages.

[aRtFuL]

[20:40:07.023] [@Ehtom] [@Ehtom] [Guarded by the Force {2528571801206784}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Guarded by the Force {2528571801206784}] ()

 

[20:40:11.155] [@Ehtom] [@Ehtom] [Force Camouflage {812096711294976}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()

 

Dead on 20:40:16

 

 

Just looking at the above I already see a lot wrong. Why Guarded by Force at not even half way point of the fight?? That ability was not even supposed to be used until your death is almost certain. You just killed 1/2 your own health right there.

 

Why force camo at 2/3 of the fight and come back for it?? Force camo again is for escape or certainty of death blows, not for breaking the enemy's sequence.

 

Also, where is pacify? That alone would've messed up the operative's damages and win you the fight. Had you pop that either at the start or the end your enemy would not be able to land anything.

 

Also, where is force stasis? That, again, would've gave you time to think your next move when youa re choking the life out of the operative.

 

All in all, very depressing to read that combat log and see how many abilities was unused.

Edited May 4, 2012 by aRtFuL

[HelinCarnate]

I can blow a relic and adrenals and kill somoene in 20 seconds with most of my health left on my vanguard. Do vanguards also need a nerf?

[Coldin]

Looking through the log quickly...those were actually low numbers from the Operative. His hidden strike only hit for ~3500. My Shoot First can go up to nearly 5k on undergeared targets. All those numbers were on the lower side of Operative DPS, so I'm just going to say you got outplayed too. Plus....15k health isn't all that great. Try to get up to 16-17k.

[SweetNausea]

A 20 second long fight? Dat Op burst.

 

Nice use of cool downs, by the way. Try not to panic next time and you might do better.

[revial]

I can blow a relic and adrenals and kill somoene in 20 seconds with most of my health left on my vanguard. Do vanguards also need a nerf?

 

Seeing as his definition of burst is a 20s fight, I think your Vanguard needs a nerf too!

[TheAboDad]

Long story short:

 

• You panic'd
  
• You did not make good choices
  
• You did not manage your target
  
• You don't understand that 3100 damage on you isn't a mindblowing amound of damage.
  
• You are bad
  

 

There's only one problem here, and it's PEBKAC.

 

I play a marauder, and have never lost to an operative/scoundrel 1v1. They get the jump, you break out immediately and pop defensive CDs to counter the remainder of their combo...then bait their evasion and use ravage to crush them.

 

This guy speaks the truth, you made poor choices and now you find yourself QQ'ing in the PvP forums. Learn to play your class.

[Sabredance]

Operatives are in no way op anymore.

Those days are fortunately gone.

I say that as the receiving end -i don´t play an operative.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Sabredance

[Cempa]

I made a post stating that Operatives once they are able to get the better mods and enhancements will be beyond OP....Guess what people said?

 

I spoke to a CM about this and the gist of it is they are that way by design. Game designers wanted a class/build that is overloads damage in the opener and only tank types are supposed to be able to make it through the opener assuming both are in green gear.

 

I want people to realize that what Operatives are doing now burst wise is done with just about the WORST optimization possible. Once they are in Augmented War Hero gear with the correct Mod+Enhancement the opener will be MASSIVE, unless you have over +20k HP you will not survive the opener.

 

I played Concealment in Beta and posted then -BEFORE THE BUFF FOR LIVE- that they were border line OP....BW buffs them and game goes live.

 

They need to go back to Beta levels.

[ssbi]

I made a post stating that Operatives once they are able to get the better mods and enhancements will be beyond OP....Guess what people said?

 

I spoke to a CM about this and the gist of it is they are that way by design. Game designers wanted a class/build that is overloads damage in the opener and only tank types are supposed to be able to make it through the opener assuming both are in green gear.

 

I want people to realize that what Operatives are doing now burst wise is done with just about the WORST optimization possible. Once they are in Augmented War Hero gear with the correct Mod+Enhancement the opener will be MASSIVE, unless you have over +20k HP you will not survive the opener.

 

I played Concealment in Beta and posted then -BEFORE THE BUFF FOR LIVE- that they were border line OP....BW buffs them and game goes live.

 

They need to go back to Beta levels.

 

1900 Cunning 1200 Expertise 75 % surge 800 Bonus damage, that kind of stats are fine for you ? I have them, 4500 HS on nearly the same geared Sage which means he has around 18 k hp under endurance buff. 4500 HS 3800 Backstab and around 2900 Laceration. Then he is getting healed, guarded, i m getting taunted, or he shows some kind of avarage skill and starts to kite while i m the class with 0 utility runing after him with pants down.

 

When they were wielding 8 k crits with 3 sec knockdown yeah they were OP now they are just the ghost of past.

 

PW/Vanguard, does the same burst with way more utility and bettter regeneration managment, so i can't see your point.

Edited May 4, 2012 by ssbi

[DirtyDiggler]

proof that the forums are full of bads.....

 

you have one of the best 1on1 classes which a large marjority seems to think needs a nerf and your whining about the least played class that everyone thinks needs a buff your just bad....

 

Just reroll cuz your bad