1.2 Mara buffed, Operatives nerfed... Absolutely baffling.

[Kajebko]

@Caelrie

Why this OP would engage me while not cloaked ?

 

If he ever does this, i smoke him in 6 GCD. But he deserves it cause that's not the way you play an OP.

 

What if I jump right into a pack of enemy players, when my defensives cd's are not up ?

What if I engage a pyrotech, while my defensive cd's are not up ?

What if I engage anything which have a stun / snare / root while my defensive cd's are not up ?

 

I die.

 

What ?! A mara can die ?! THAT'S THE FIRST THING WE LEARN !! THAT'S WHY WE TRY TO PLAY OUR CLASS WELL !!

[BizzyBeast]

So much crying going on. People love to talk like they know best, but I pay Bio a sub so they dont have to listen to the whiny minority. Thank goodness.

[ProfessorWalsh]

In bis gear Sent/Mars currently dominate the dps scene while retaining the best survivability cooldowns (with a fairly low reuse time, if i may add), i dont see how this is even in argument

 

BioWare has already said that we are the highest DPS in the game we are supposed to be better DPS than anyone else. Also we don't have the best survivability. The problem is that our targets of choice (The Sith Sorcerer and Imperial Operative) are the highest and lowest played classes for their respective sides.

 

So yes we appear overpowered because we can dominate Sorcerers and 80% of our opponents are Sorcerers. Once more Sorcerers start playing other classes you will see a big difference.

 

You want to know what classes clean our clock?

 

Tank specced Juggs and Bounty Hunters can mash Watchmen Sentinels for breakfast. Though they will tear Sorcerers, Operatives, DPS Bounty Hunters, and Snipers up all day long. (This is the most commonly played Sentinel by the by, but because they tear up DPS Bounty Hunters and Sorcerers they appear to be more powerful than they are.)

 

Imperial Agent Operatives will tear a Combat Watchman up if they use their stuns properly to mess with our timing. (You rarely see these, they are the lowest played Sentinel in the game.)

 

Focus Spec doesn't really have a counter, but it also doesn't have anything it is specifically good against.

 

OP/SCs dominate undergeared and inexperienced people, is that your problem?

 

You just need to target the right targets to be honest. Sentinels who go after Tanks get terrible DPS. We go after Snipers and Sorcerers. It just so happens there are a lot of you.

 

But i guess most Sents/Mars are superior skilled players

 

We are the most highly skilled. Our class has the most buttons and has to fight the system more than you do. We are also the only class (that I know of) that has bosses in the Class Stories that can straight up one shot us if we make a mistake. We are the only class in the game that has to make use of every skill we have available.

[Zbus]

Not to worried Mara's are one of the few classes I can kill 1 on 1 in pvp as a MM spec GS. I admit they handed me my hat for a long time till I got used to watching for that red superman glow and knowing when and how to space my cc to stave them of thier energy. After that they became easy kills 1 on 1. Now supported they still wreck me but thats anouther story.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Not to worried Mara's are one of the few classes I can kill 1 on 1 in pvp as a MM spec GS. I admit they handed me my hat for a long time till I got used to watching for that red superman glow and knowing when and how to space my cc to stave them of thier energy. After that they became easy kills 1 on 1. Now supported they still wreck me but thats anouther story.

 

This is pretty much it. Once you know how to fight them it is cake.

 

Sort of like when I face a DPS tracer-spammer. There is no way a DPS tracer spammer will ever beat me 1 on 1. I will never let them use the tracer missile ever. I have 5 ways to shut it down and I will every single time they try to use it.

 

Force Leap = Interrupt.

Force Kick = Interrupt.

Force Stasis = Interrupt.

Awe = Interrupt.

Force Camouflage = Interrupt if they are targeting me and I vanish within the cast timer.

[Astarica]

If you don't realize how significant the nerf on 100% damage reduction on Force Camo then you either never fought a Marauder that was good or that you were so outclassed they never need to use Force Camo on you. Undying Rage is strong but its nature means they can only use it while they're losing badly (it literally makes no sense to use while you're ahead or even tied), while Force Camo can be used safely in all circumstances for complete damage negation + DPS from dots with no possible counter.

 

Pretty much all the close fights that I lost to a Marauder involves Force Camo. If it didn't have 100% damage reduction, I'd have won most of those fights.

[England]

Almost all the buffs to Sentinel were to specs that underperformed to the one everyone complains about being OP. The one that people have a legit concern about being OP was Annihilation/Watchman which lost two major abilities. Force Fade (This abililty trumps Guarded by the Force, it's just subtle and you have to be a newb to not understand how awesome it is) and the Transendence boost. In return we got some very minor buffs to other stuff. Making Force Camo 50% for all Sentinels nerfed the top spec.

 

You have to actually understand the c lass. Which obviously nobody does. Know why? Because at Launch you all thought Sentinel/Marauder was terrible at PVP, and the worse class, when people like me and others from closed beta were basically screaming at you that it does the highest single target DPS in the game. You all just went about your business, acting like you were gods of MMOs because you have WoW experience and can read stuff on paper, despite our actual game experience.

 

Fast forward to now you are all whining about the class being OP. I'll take a nerf just for the fact you all now look like massive idiots who had no clue what they were talking bout. All I heard at launch was "Sorc is OP this and That" LOL Now they are all crying.

 

Best patch ever. Enjoy your Sorc, and have fun as a re rolled Sentinel. If you were bad at Sorc, you will be a horrible Sentinel.

 

 

Every post you contributed to this thread is 100% correct.

 

Patch 1.2 is primarily focused on spec balancing, but as you said, people are just not understanding this.

 

Yes, there will be a lot of people rerolling Sents/Maras now, but that itself is frustrating. Because like you and i who rolled sents as our main during early access (you being longer) we'll still be dropped in the same stereotype as the guys who rolled the FOTM class due to not understanding the true nature of patch 1.2. No idea how the mechanics work whatsoever.

 

I said earlier in Gchat, that i would gladly take a nerfbat to the face if it stops many people rolling these classes based on hearsay.

[Darth_Sookie]

You guys will get Juggernauts nerfed. Thanks.

[Derian]

If you don't realize how significant the nerf on 100% damage reduction on Force Camo then you either never fought a Marauder that was good or that you were so outclassed they never need to use Force Camo on you. Undying Rage is strong but its nature means they can only use it while they're losing badly (it literally makes no sense to use while you're ahead or even tied), while Force Camo can be used safely in all circumstances for complete damage negation + DPS from dots with no possible counter.

 

Pretty much all the close fights that I lost to a Marauder involves Force Camo. If it didn't have 100% damage reduction, I'd have won most of those fights.

 

This. Like I said, people cry about Guarded By the Force. Force Fade was way more useful.

[Daex]

If you don't realize how significant the nerf on 100% damage reduction on Force Camo then you either never fought a Marauder that was good or that you were so outclassed they never need to use Force Camo on you. Undying Rage is strong but its nature means they can only use it while they're losing badly (it literally makes no sense to use while you're ahead or even tied), while Force Camo can be used safely in all circumstances for complete damage negation + DPS from dots with no possible counter.

 

Pretty much all the close fights that I lost to a Marauder involves Force Camo. If it didn't have 100% damage reduction, I'd have won most of those fights.

 

I'm sorry but I think what you said about Undying Rage is not completely correct. Often, instead of waiting for near-death situation, it's handy to prevent big bursts which you can predict to some degree by watching your opponent's buffs and cast bar.

[Crazylor]

Thank God I'm not the only person. This is coming from a marauder who thinks this is a useless buff, and only sees a horrible class altering nerf down the road. Don't turn mara's into operatives, please!!!

 

Signed.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Zoggel
Rude

[VincentWolf]

Marauders/sents, already gods of pvp in the hands of any half-brained player, get buffs, instead of a HUGE damage nerfs they deserve, while troopers get 10% grav round damage nerf, instead of making it uninterruptible or adding an armor debuff to the hammer shot... And I thought WoW developers were clueless about their game...

I'm already leveling a sentinel. Don't know about you. If they going to allow premades to go versus pugs in rated warzones -- I'm outta this game.

[Caelrie]

@Caelrie

Why this OP would engage me while not cloaked ?

Because he doesn't have a choice? Because of DOTs, detections, AEs, etc. an operative spends most of a warzone unstealthed.

 

If he ever does this, i smoke him in 6 GCD. But he deserves it cause that's not the way you play an OP.

 

And this is what's wrong with operatives. Only being effective while stealthed in a game where it's so hard to GET INTO stealth is crap. Assassins don't have this problem. They don't need to open from stealth to be effective. So why do we? Why can't this be changed to make operatives more playable?

 

Your fantasy world where you can start every fight (or even most fights) from stealth is just that, pure fantasy.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Caelrie

[GrandMike]

SWTOR

 

Sentinel/marauder wars: The Trolld Republic

 

We have been trolled by loser devs.

 

I wont be joining loser devs (Shdowbane/WHO/SOE) and their fail game (history repeats itself) and have rerolled GW2.

 

Best thing you can possibly do is to stay away from SWTOR and loser devs - it wont get any better.

 

Ilum speaks volumes in itself rofl. They...are...clueless and 1.2 confirms it.

 

Marauders/sents, already gods of pvp in the hands of any half-brained player, get buffs, instead of a HUGE damage nerfs they deserve, while troopers get 10% grav round damage nerf, instead of making it uninterruptible or adding an armor debuff to the hammer shot... And I thought WoW developers were clueless about their game...

I'm already leveling a sentinel. Don't know about you. If they going to allow premades to go versus pugs in rated warzones -- I'm outta this game.

 

They buffed sentinel/marauder because its was not OP enough for 95% of terribads playing it

 

Other 5% of good players scratch their head and cannot believe what they have done.

 

Ive never seen devs that are so detached form the actual game.

 

Its astounding.

Edited March 19, 2012 by GrandMike

[Nessirin]

Because he doesn't have a choice? Because of DOTs, detections, AEs, etc. an operative spends most of a warzone unstealthed.

 

 

 

And this is what's wrong with operatives. Only being effective while stealthed in a game where it's so hard to GET INTO stealth is crap. Assassins don't have this problem. They don't need to open from stealth to be effective. So why do we? Why can't this be changed to make operatives more playable?

 

Your fantasy world where you can start every fight (or even most fights) from stealth is just that, pure fantasy.

 

The problem is, most other classes only notice Operatives when they open up from stealth on them. They just assume operatives are a mindless beat-em-up npc when they're out of stealth because they die so quickly.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Nessirin

[iknoghostmagic]

quality of life changes and nerfs really the changes to annihilation/watchman are pretty huge no 100% damage reduction from forcecamo or 70% predation is pretty big nerf and rage/focus has received minor buffs.

 

And i find it funny that people even have the odasity to complain about Mara damage sure we do alot of damage why ? because we offer nothing else i would take some damage nerfs for two 4 seconds stuns and a knock back that roots you place thanks

Edited March 19, 2012 by iknoghostmagic

[HyperThomas]

They got buffed?

They have better survivability than a guardian or a shadow tank + the DPS...

Wow... not sure where this came from, Possibly one of the pvp combat designers plays this class and wants to make it his little treasure? *cough*

[England]

Marauders/sents, already gods of pvp in the hands of any half-brained player, get buffs, instead of a HUGE damage nerfs they deserve, while troopers get 10% grav round damage nerf, instead of making it uninterruptible or adding an armor debuff to the hammer shot... And I thought WoW developers were clueless about their game...

I'm already leveling a sentinel. Don't know about you. If they going to allow premades to go versus pugs in rated warzones -- I'm outta this game.

 

Combat spec is getting buffed slightly because at this point it is borderline useless. Whereas Watchman spec is getting slightly nerfed, by swapping the talents slightly and practically gimping Force fade. I think you are falling in line with the rest of the herd to be honest.

 

Also, why did you reroll? did you honestly have fun spamming grav round and using Knockbacks in Huttball? I personally think you are an incredibly bad gamer who relies heavily on easy classes. the proof is in the pudding love. You are rolling a sent because your class is being corrected to make it slightly more challenging for you, you are theoretically choosing what people say is the next OP class. I assure you, you will be disappointed.

 

Fyi, I'd gladly take a nerf to keep useless players like you away from our class. I would also trade DPS for a few more CC abilities. SO either way sunshine, i couldn't give two Siths if all you Bishes on here is going to bring a nerf our way.

 

 

PS. I say this in a respectful manner towards you, despite the fact i believe you deserve a lot less.

Edited March 19, 2012 by England

[Gformutorila]

Which is great and should have been done. The problem is this patch also killed hybrid Sorc (cool) without making 31pt lightning or madness better.

 

I urge everyone to play a 31pt lightning Sorc and then compare its DPS (either burst or sustained) to the other DPS classes. It is entirely pathetic, which is why everyone was hybrid in the first place.

 

Nerfing things without making other options viable isnt wise. Marauders already eat almost anyone daily so if its right for them to have more than one viable spec (which it is) then so should every other class.

 

Most Snipers will not go near their 31 point talent. I think one of the more populair specs is 23/17/2.

[teyngodown]

Marauders/sents, already gods of pvp in the hands of any half-brained player, get buffs, instead of a HUGE damage nerfs they deserve, while troopers get 10% grav round damage nerf, instead of making it uninterruptible or adding an armor debuff to the hammer shot... And I thought WoW developers were clueless about their game...

I'm already leveling a sentinel. Don't know about you. If they going to allow premades to go versus pugs in rated warzones -- I'm outta this game.

 

Most maras/sents are failhards in pvp. It takes a bit more than half a brain to deal loads of damage as one. Where as with Merc/mando it takes little to none if they just sit there and spam grav/tracer.

 

The 10% debuff is nothing. your 2.2k crit is now going to crit for 2k big deal. Heatseeker(not sure commado equiv) has a 10% damage buff meaning your 4+k crits will now do almost 5k consistantly. On top of all that barrage procs will happen more often meaning more unload spam which did SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than tracer and HS seeing as it crits 2k on a single tick, slows the target and ticks for 3 seconds.

 

Any standard grav/tracer spammer got a nerf but the tree as a whole got a big buff. I myself play a pyro merc. My sustained dps will go down significantly after 1.2 since i won't get as many railshot procs which are really my only way of mitigating heat. Plus in order to get those procs as a merc i have to use power shot wich got a 10% damage nerf. Sure i have a 60% chance for the proc with unload but thats on a 15 second CD.

 

I get why they nerfed the pyro tree though because Powertech dps with the pyro tree was absurd. I just wish it didn't hit my merc so hard .

Edited March 19, 2012 by teyngodown

[Redmarx]

I often look at other marauders and facepalm.

 

No, having a few more buttons to deal damage does not make marauder hard to play. Every class is easy, it's muscle memory and practice; but clearly there are a lot of clickers around.

 

As for class balance, marauder was already the strongest PVP class by far.

 

Buffing us is going to result in balance problems down the road which will threaten to get the class gutted like what they did to dps operatives, sorcs and mercs in 1.2

 

Rather not have that happen, tyvm.

[mufutiz]

I often look at other marauders and facepalm.

 

No, having a few more buttons to deal damage does not make marauder hard to play. Every class is easy, it's muscle memory and practice; but clearly there are a lot of clickers around.

 

As for class balance, marauder was already the strongest PVP class by far.

 

Buffing us is going to result in balance problems down the road which will threaten to get the class gutted like what they did to dps operatives, sorcs and mercs in 1.2

 

Rather not have that happen, tyvm.

 

 

Buffing "us" ?

 

I like how all the mediocre sorc and merc players suddenly pretend to main a marauder and are lobbying for reverting or preventing any mara buffs. In a very altruistic fashion.

 

Hilarious, guys. Keep it coming please.

 

 

Marauder - the strongest DPS in the game and arguably most powerful PvP class in organized PvP get massive buffs.

 

Operative - the weakest sustained DPS in the game has sustained DPS nerfed while keeping high burst.

 

This should confirm to everyone how clueless Bioware is when it comes to class balance.

 

Actually, this is just another thread confirming how clueless some players are to be quite honest.

Edited March 19, 2012 by mufutiz

[ProfessorWalsh]

I often look at other marauders and facepalm.

 

No, having a few more buttons to deal damage does not make marauder hard to play. Every class is easy, it's muscle memory and practice; but clearly there are a lot of clickers around.

 

As for class balance, marauder was already the strongest PVP class by far.

 

Buffing us is going to result in balance problems down the road which will threaten to get the class gutted like what they did to dps operatives, sorcs and mercs in 1.2

 

Rather not have that happen, tyvm.

 

You don't play a Marauder or a Sentinel as a main.

 

If you did you'd know that the buff was only to the under used specs and not to the main spec being used right now (Watchman for Sentinels) which was actually nerfed a little. This is getting silly. We didn't go around pretending to be Sorcerer mains and trying to get your class nerfed.

[Redmarx]

You don't play a Marauder or a Sentinel as a main.

 

If you did you'd know that the buff was only to the under used specs and not to the main spec being used right now (Watchman for Sentinels) which was actually nerfed a little. This is getting silly. We didn't go around pretending to be Sorcerer mains and trying to get your class nerfed.

 

You're a bad marauder. Both you and Mufutiz are the kind of laughable marauders I see in warzones and I just /facepalm.

 

Annihilation will still do the highest single target damage. Not only that but the cd reduction on disruption is a gamechanger for top end PVP - though not for the kind of pug stuff you do.

 

If you were any good, you would know that the removal of rage costs to disruption and IR are going to be absolutely huge for PVP. Free disruption alone is +1 rage per 6 seconds since I interrupt on cooldown. The new 50% snare on rupture is also a huge buff to annihilation and improves my ramp up time.

 

Again, I play a marauder and I play it much better than you. I'm out there destroying healers every day, and these are fantastic changes for us.

 

You don't see the buffs, when for real PVPers, they are enormous.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Redmarx

[Migrayn]

They're buffing Sentinel/Marauder specs that are garbage. Why can't people understand something so simple?

 

Combat and Focus for Sentinels are not good in pvp compared to Watchman. As much as people with pocket healers being guarded think it is, it isn't.

 

It's like saying the buffs to Tactics isn't warranted because Assault Specialist is a powerful spec.

 

There's a reason games don't innovate anymore, it's because all the behaviour of the people that play them. They whine when developers do ANYTHING.

 

"BUFFING A SPEC NO ONE USES? *** !!! THIS GAME IS RUINED!11!1"

 

It's ridiculous.

 

I think its more the fact they are nerfing a class no one uses. Ops are the most nerfed class in the game. They have no utility no survivability and HAD damage. Now that is being nerfed. Lack of utility should mean more damage to make up for it, not less damage.