I guess awesome in a lot of peoples books is doing tons of fluff DOT AOE damage and never getting above single digit kills. Funny thing is its not a L2P issue its a DPS burst issue. The numbers don't lie being a VG myself I might see 1 other VG in like 10 matches and that's in a normal PUG WZ. Rated groups well we wont even touch that one lol which should be all you need to know about the class of PT and VG so far as viability is concerned.

That about sums it up. A huge amount of fluff damage funny part is checking the kills on some of these SS people with 800 or 900k damage and single digit kills. Heck might as well be a Smasher and get the damage and the kills.

Don't listen to these guys the simple fact is that very few people are playing PT/VG tells the truth of the problem with PT's and VG's. Just look around in your next few matches and see how many PT's or VG's (if you got a pub guy) you see in matches. Mind you these are PUG's but if you want the real harsh truth try to get in a rated and check out how many you see. Best advice I can give rough out your games get the guy geared and shelf him while you play something else that way if the ever revise the changes you can pull your PT out without him being so far behind the curve. Hard part will be gritting your teeth while you suffer through your daily's and weekly.

Not sure what it is on my tactics VG spec but my DPS feels slugish. I mean it was never great for burst pre 2.0 but I could get a nice constant steady DPS with the spec and for me that was ok I liked the challange of not playing assault spec. But now something just feels hinky with how my VG plays not sure if its the bolster or something else. Heck maybe I am in the wrong spec meaning full tactics and not some hybird I dont know. Im not feeling any synergy with these new skills at all. Im a little shocked at how my EWH gear means so little now but that I can live with, its the speed of play and the slugish nature of my DPS thats bugging me to no end.

/shrug I play my vanny as tactics spec and rather enjoy it. No I dont have the DPS burst of a assault spec but I do love watching the smash monkies attack me and get that puzzled look when that 5 to 7k smash only did around 2 to 3k. Funny part is I get told all the time im gimping my team by not being assault. When I try to explain im not about trying to be tops on the dps chart but rather a decent mix of protection and dps I just get the response of tactics sucks. Oh well whats a vanny to do.

Keep your ranked coms it does not take long to get WH gear. You may try going bomb spec should allow you to get in some AOE damage and area denial plus beef up your defense. Other than that just take the beatings and try to be as useful as possible.

It would be a short video I die to fast.

Might work but if I see you on ISO your getting a marker regardless lol I cant take the chance of you being in healer spec. even if it looks like your DPSing.

Thank goodness you got tired of healing. By the way nice vid I enjoyed it.

Its more than likely you ran into a full tactics spec useing Ion cell. Alot of vanguards run this spec due to all the smash teams running around. it provides pretty good defense steady damage but you miss out on some of the burst of assault. Not a bad spec but you will not be hitting number 1 on the damage charts with it.

Not sure what the answer is on stun bubbles but from my scoudrel scrapper spec its a major suck. I dont expect to be able to kill a healer flat out but I should at least be able to pressure him a little.

The jumping is for the most part a defense against knock back. if you time the jumps right a blow back like that from a sorc or sage will shoot you straight up instead of into a acid pit off a ramp or in a fire pit. While i dont enjoy hopping around it does have a function I suppose.

Not sure if Snipers and Gun Slingers are FOTM OP but they are fun and annoying to play at the same time. But the best pvp Exp. I have had so far in this game is on my 50 Gun Slinger when on a rare instance I can 1 vs 1 with a sniper. If both players are pretty good with there class It can turn into a fantastic chess match going back and forth on the damage as each player times his CD's stuns and movements.

Just as you figured what? I pointed to the posts on PTS that had been up a long time 3 threads on this very topic. The longest of which was like 10 plus pages in length and showed parsed info from multiple sources. Again Im sorry you did not take the time to read them but if your trying to make a claim that said posts did not exist then just come out and say so. Im sure many of the players here read the posts on PTS and who knows maybe someone will do you the favor of reposting thier parsed data.

Since I did not make the claim myself I feel no need to parse and post it to prove someone elses work. I just pointed out that on multiple threads pre patch on the PTS the information provided did not match what was being said in this thread. No reason to get snotty with me on the subject im not claiming anything new that had not already been posted on in depth on the PTS. Dont blame me if you did not read any of it. But to make clear the point the posters on PTS pointed at was single target DPS not the craptastic AOE damge they gave us to replace it. You really dont need a parse to see the diffrence between the two. Anyway Im happy your happy with your AOE craptastic damage so keep on doing what your doing the rest of us have moved on to more realistic specs that can do stuff like kill someone in pvp.

Then show the parses and math disproveing what was posted and tested on PTS by multiple sources. That simple really. Just because someone points out that you have not posted any parses or math disproveing what is already been tested on the PTS at length and by multiple sources is no reason to get snotty with me on the subject. Im just letting the other readers know that your conclusions on the topic do not agree with what others have stated on the subject. Hence they should take your claims of way less than a 18-20% nerf to single target damage with a grain of salt. By the way had you been on PTS you should have seen the posts I'm refering to and could have posted your findings thier to debunk them. Not come on here makeing vague claims with no support backing them up. This is one of the vidos backing up the claims not my claims mind you but the posters on PTS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TKqkOWZVWY

Many players already parsed in depth and from multiple sources and posted thier results on PTS board prior to patch it is close to a 18 to 20% drop in single target dps. If you have parses that refute the info already documented by multiple sources then post it otherwise all your doing is what your post mentions guessing and estimateing on the changes.

That bug that allows you to be flagged for pvp when you attack a healed/buffed mob is annoying. Was trying to do a daily today and a pair of sith shadows exploited that bug and caused me to get flagged. They both then proceded to pull me into near by elite mobs which of coarse caused a quick release back to the med center. They did this to alot of players causeing delays up to a hour for some players just trying to do a daily. The good news is they got so greedy for kills they chased a few players who managed to run out of the quest area and on one of those attempts I was able to return the favor and grapple the shadow into a group of friendly elite npcs and poped his restealth with a stealth scan. But the simple fact that on a PVE server you can be forced into a flagged state needs to be fixed asap. While revenge was sweet it still didnt get me back the time I waisted on getting rid of these griefers so I could finish a simple quest.

Just depends on the spot I find myself. As a tank spec ill let him have the opening and save the cc break. If Im assault spec I am confident enough in my own dps to take the chance. Him getting his 2nd stealth off is a matter of me missing my stealth stealth scan. I got enough dps up front that if he does get caught in the scan he will be dead between me poping my bubble, adreline rush, med packing and a 2nd round of burst damage. But I will admit some guys are way faster than I am so its very possible depending on CD's and reflexes for me to get killed out right by a really skilled OP. With that being said I dont think cc break first for most classes works real well but a few classes can pull it off.

Its not always bad to pop your cc break on pin down. Some AC like my vanguard have multiple stuns. If both my aoe stun and cyro nade are off cd I will cc break the pin down AOE stun then wait to see if he uses his break if he does I give him a nade and break off getting distance and pepper him with shot. If he tries to restealth and im fast enough with the scan I can kill him if I am not fast enough or I misplace the scan I am dead in most cases. Fighting a skilled op is dangerous buisness and in most cases its who has the CD's up and on hand that prevails.

It works out ok with the 2% damage reduction early on in the tactics tree plus the 20% reduction while stunned it has alot of synergy with ion cell. You also get a nice damage boost from just a straight up shield spec. I took the run speed talent and energy regen as well so I can switch cells to whatever is working for me best at the time. I lost my bonus to stock strike in the asault tree but come 1.3 that skill will be moot anyway so geting used to not haveing it in the main lineup in the damage rotation is good practice.

Its combat tech for tactics. Eliminator is for assault and super commando is for tank only if your just dead set on being the gimp in the room.

Really have you tested the changes yet? From my runs on PTS explosive surge is hitting in the 600 to 800 range and criting around 1100. Yes its going to be more resource friendly after a storm but thats about it. At most you might use it to stop a node cap not as a major source of damage. HiB in ion spec is no game changer never has been so again no huge buff in that area. Ion cell still bugged to heck. Really Im amazed you guys even think your going to make a healer break a sweat with these changes. Good PVE change I suppose but just a god aweful change for PVP. I really feel bad for the super commando guys the tech guys can move over pretty easy but you guys are going to go from a low ouput tank with some ability to threaten a attacker on you guarded target, to a super low output tank damage sponge with little to no threat factor at all.

Umm no you will have a higher end game damage output on scoreboard but your overall effectiveness when trying to pressure any single target while peeling will go down. Simple rule for PVP is that single target dps trumps AOE anything. The word focus fire comes from this concept. Funny part is this will not hurt the DPS tanks it will hurt the super commando guys whos damage is poor anyway. The DPS guys will go tactics or assault with ion cell loaded and because the damage to those specs dont rely on SS/RP they will be just as effective plus they already have the gear for it. /shrug BW did nothing with this nerf they didnt correct the tanks stats/shield/armor mitigation issue and they didnt kill DPS tanks cause the guys will just change specs and then run ion cell and end end up with even more damage.

Cool that means we can look forward to other classes getting the defensive CD's removed we can start with Mara/Sent's because they are DPS and really shouldnt have tank damage reduction ablities. In other words leave the tanking to the tank class.