To many abilities - piano playing must be reduced...

[AstralProjection]

One of the things I love about MMORPG's is the "Piano Playing"...one of the reasons I hate ability macroing. But then again, Piano's one of the instruments I play so maybe it helps/has something to do with it.

 

My favorite part about the Sentinel class is the sheer amount of keybinds I have to use to succeed. It gives a lot of room for variation in skill level.

 

When you can break down the most powerful way to play a class into a few simple moves everyone you play starts to feel the same. Makes it more boring for me as a PVPer.

[Scudmungus]

I too like 'piano playing'.

 

Finding the right keybind layout that feels

intuitive is a continual process of refinement.

 

It's a challenge, one that I relish.

 

I also enjoy UI customisation but alas...

 

::

 

[wtfnonamefree]

Just wondering what are u guys bind to 40+buttons? I just counted all the marauder abilities(you always say that marauders use the most keys) and its 36 so with biochem stuffs and relics its 40. And i counted every usable abilities, and ofc you shouldnt keybind many of them. I counted channel hatre, buffs, every form, every ability what you get from 31/31/31 talent.

 

Those are my 47 binds. There are even more, if you count things as 'follow', 'walk toggle', character sheet, etc.

 

I use them all frequently (except for the abilities with parentheses) and I'd miss any bind, really.

 

1 - recklessness

2 - force shroud

3 - deflection

4 - mark of power

5 - sprint (only for datacron jump'n'run)

6 - endurance stim

7 - willpower stim

q - jolt

e - overload

a+q - unbreakable will

a+e - electrocute

r - stealth

a+r - force cloak

s+r - blackout

c - force speed

y - mount (german keyboard layout)

n1 - thrash

a+n1 - saber strike

n2 - lacerate

a+n2 - maul (very seldom, if at all)

n3 - shock

a+n3 - assassinate

s+n3 - force lightning

4 - discharge

a+n4 - spike

n5 - dark ward (for PvE)

a+n5 - overcharge saber

n6 - mind control

a+n6 - mass mind control

s+n6 - guard

n7 - rakata medpack

a+n7 - power relic

s+n7 - wz medpack

n8 - expertise adrenal

a+n8 - absorb relic (for PvE)

s+n8 - rakata power adrenal (to double dip with expertise pickup)

n9 - seethe

n10 - mind trap

n11 - companion passive

n12 - pass huttball

m3 - wither

a+m3 - force pull

s+m3 - crushing darkness (only used in hybrid spec)

m4 - dark surge

m5 - lightning surge

f - whirlwind

a+f - force slow

 

(n=naga button)

Edited March 15, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[monimoni]

I agree 100%

[BrutalPain]

Those are my 47 binds. There are even more, if you count things as 'follow', 'walk toggle', character sheet, etc.

 

I use them all frequently (except for the abilities with parentheses) and I'd miss any bind, really.

 

1 - recklessness

2 - force shroud

3 - deflection

4 - mark of power

5 - sprint (only for datacron jump'n'run)

6 - endurance stim

7 - willpower stim

q - jolt

e - overload

a+q - unbreakable will

a+e - electrocute

r - stealth

a+r - force cloak

s+r - blackout

c - force speed

y - mount

n1 - thrash

a+n1 - saber strike

n2 - lacerate

a+n2 - maul (very seldom, if at all)

n3 - shock

a+n3 - assassinate

s+n3 - force lightning

4 - discharge

a+n4 - spike

n5 - dark ward (for PvE)

a+n5 - overcharge saber

n6 - mind control

a+n6 - mass mind control

s+n6 - guard

n7 - rakata medpack

a+n7 - power relic

s+n7 - wz medpack

n8 - expertise adrenal

a+n8 - absorb relic (for PvE)

s+n8 - rakata power adrenal (to double dip with expertise pickup)

n9 - seethe

n10 - mind trap

n11 - companion passive

n12 - pass huttball

m3 - wither

a+m3 - force pull

s+m3 - crushing darkness (only used in hybrid spec)

m4 - dark surge

m5 - lightning surge

f - whirlwind

a+f - force slow

 

(n=naga button)

 

 

 

S ofrom that 47 keybind you use 38, and i think charges, seethe dont realy need to be keybinded as you use them out of combat, and if you dont need crushing darkness it shouldnt realy need to keybind. Its 34 skill thats why i cant see who is useing 40+keybinds effectively.

[Faat]

I'm against dumbing down the game.

 

As it is there's plenty enough easy classes to play. Just don't roll an harder one and then ask to have a 1 button main rotation with a few extra skills. Instead, you can roll a commando / sage or their Empire counterparts and spam spam spam 'till your finger bleeds.

 

This game is too easy to begin with.

[Crazylor]

Remove keybinds and implement voice commands, anything to require less interaction and make the game boring will work!

[Groncho]

It would.

 

Pressing buttons is hard.

 

I am a clicker

I want macros

Just like WOW

and unicorns

and little elfs with shinny blue eyes

[Olympic]

You can always just build your own rotation and not use certain abilities. Remove them from your toolbar and set yourself free...

[wtfnonamefree]

S ofrom that 47 keybind you use 38, and i think charges, seethe dont realy need to be keybinded as you use them out of combat, and if you dont need crushing darkness it shouldnt realy need to keybind. Its 34 skill thats why i cant see who is useing 40+keybinds effectively.

 

How do you end up with that number?

 

I have 47 abilities bound.

 

1 is used only for exploring (sprint on/off).

 

2 of them are used only, when I spec differently. (maul & crushing darkness).

 

2 of them are PvE only. (absorb relic & dark ward).

 

1+2+2=5

 

47-5=42

 

42=/=38 (btw, following your own logic - 38-2=/=34...)

 

Still, I do use 47. Only because I do not use them in every single aspect of a game or 24/7 doesn't equal not using them.

Edited March 15, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[Patrickgf]

My comfortably usable keybinds are all used up and then alot more and I'm an arsenal merc ffs. I have both centers rows and a side row all filled up with keybinds. And several more on click abilities in the other sidebar. If I have to add any abilities it's going to be a pick and choose nightmare and some abilites will be sacrificed to the clicky sidebar (which has already happened). For the love of god give us macros so those 3 skills I know I'm going to use back to back to back can be put into 1 keybind. This is in no way a skill divide it's not hard to press 1,2,3 but it is a giant pain in the *** when you have 36 keybinds, and over 40 abilities you need to be able to hit. CONSOLIDATE for the love of god. The current system gives advantage to those who buy fancy peripherals why not give the rest of us the same ability. Edited March 15, 2012 by Patrickgf

[BrutalPain]

How do you end up with that number?

 

I have 47 abilities bound.

 

1 is used only for exploring (sprint on/off).

 

2 of them are used only, when I spec differently. (maul & crushing darkness).

 

2 of them are PvE only. (absorb relic & dark ward).

 

1+2+2=5

 

47-5=42

 

42=/=38 (btw, following your own logic - 38-2=/=34...)

 

Still, I do use 47. Only because I do not use them in every single aspect of a game or 24/7 doesn't equal not using them.

 

 

In this thread we speak about the abilities what you have to use to be competitive in pvp. You keabind 2kindof stimt, only 1 stimt can be active on you and i dont think that an ability what you use 1time every 2hours should be bound. Youn rarely use your mount in pvp, sprint dont have to bound as you click on it 1time after die. Dark ward is not for pvp neither companion abilities. You cant use 2type of medpack and 2type of adrenal 1is enough to bound.

Plus what i have said you dont realy need to bind seethe and lightning charge/dark charge as you can use them out of combat. You said you dont use crashing darkness so whats the point to be bound.

Yes you can bind all 48 quickslot with rakata stimts/adrenals or bind 48 tracer missile for different keys but we speak about something else.

[BrutalPain]

Remove keybinds and implement voice commands, anything to require less interaction and make the game boring will work!

 

That would be fun. Imagined myself shouting chaaaarge and my warrior flying at the defenless sorcerer, and the shouting with red eyes "humble him! decimate to the ground!".

Would be fun.

[Corona_SS]

Actually I find that one most interesting feature in this game is that there is always roof for improvement of your skill, and this is largely due to the complexity of piano-playing.

 

Please forgive my English.

[wtfnonamefree]

In this thread we speak about the abilities what you have to use to be competitive in pvp. You keabind 2kindof stimt, only 1 stimt can be active on you and i dont think that an ability what you use 1time every 2hours should be bound. Youn rarely use your mount in pvp, sprint dont have to bound as you click on it 1time after die. Dark ward is not for pvp neither companion abilities. You cant use 2type of medpack and 2type of adrenal 1is enough to bound.

Plus what i have said you dont realy need to bind seethe and lightning charge/dark charge as you can use them out of combat. You said you dont use crashing darkness so whats the point to be bound.

Yes you can bind all 48 quickslot with rakata stimts/adrenals or bind 48 tracer missile for different keys but we speak about something else.

 

- Stims can be changed depending on situation (offensive/defensive) on a whim (I am biochem, which you could've known from my usage of rakate medpack - they are reusables).

 

- I use my mount all the time, PvPing in Ilum

 

- Sprint no longer needs to be reapplied after death since 1.1 already iirc. But you are right - I do not use it in PvP

 

- Dark Ward will certainly be used again, come 1.2. At the moment I use it in PvE only, but this will change in a few weeks. I already use it in PvE and will not change my binds anytime soon. Also, other assassins run with a shield generator already (poor souls^^). They have to bind it anyway and they are the same class and the same spec, so definitely counting.

 

- Again you are wrong - I can use 2 different medpacks. The wz medpack has a 3m cd, while the rakata is on 90cd, which aligns with the shared cd of both. This way I can alternate between them every 90s (wz medpack heals for much more) to get optimal results.

 

- The different types of adrenals are there for a reason, too (I even bothered to explain it in my first post...). I prefer to use the expertise one, because it's just more bang for the buck. But if I manage to catch an expertise pickup buff, it would be wasted to use the expertise adrenal (they do not stack) and I use the power adrenal.

 

- My point with crushing darkness was explained already, too. It's for a different spec, but you're right, I could change it for e.g. wither, which I wouldn't have then. I prefer to stick with my bind layout to suit muscle memory. More of a preference than a necessity, though.

 

- Ofc companion passive is not used in PvP, you're right

 

edit: forgot about ooc heal - you'd know how important it is to get a fast ooc heal (and why clicking anything is inferior to a bind) if you played a stealth class and/or had any clue about competitive PvP at all.

 

So, what is your point, really? If things like those are too complicated for you, please refrain from commenting.

 

edit2: One very important reason for keybinding everything is the ability to always mouselook/move at any given point, which gives superior situational awareness.

Edited March 15, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[MiuBorn]

Choose your keybinds carefully

 

the number of active keys is fine, and i should know i play shadow

 

theres a positioning guide somewhere but i cant be bothered to find it, it shows generic placement of keys for right handed players for general gaming

 

for example using wasd '2/3/4' are your most easily accessable keys 1/5/6etc being slightly more difficult and progressing down the line

 

binding ctrl/shift 2/3/4 to skills you use a lot saves effort

 

the only reason you would suffer from having to many keys is if you bind badly or click skills to use

[AmedusTOR]

This game is far from complex in terms of the number of skills and binds necessary. Children could figure it out. A four button faceroll game would be all sorts of suck.

[Kheg]

there is way too many jedi sentinel abilities

 

And yet I get by just fine with them. In fact, I'm hoping for the custom UI to add more toolbars, because I'm out.

[Jabbb]

I have everything keybound on my assassin, it's a lot

 

 

It's too much, it's just like how everyone complained about the foodcap in warcraft 3, it was so low, which meant it came down to micromanaging single units to the point where that was the only thing deciding matches and it wasn't fun. Same thing so maaaaaaaany keybinds.

 

A good comparison for me is PT vs assassin, PTs snare is attached to flame burst their main ability, this is good, snare is automatically done when you would be in range to do it. However assassin has a seperate snare you need to use, instead of tying it to shock. More PT design less assassin/mara design

[Scoobings]

OK, fair enough, now think that all of those 300 are important and all should be used from the perspective of pvp player like i am for long long time now (korean mmorpgs, wow, warhammer, aoc, aion, and all the rest of loud mmorpgs released after wow - been pvping in all of them cause thats what i find most entertaining). By not binding them all i feel im wasting class potential. And if one cant master whole potential of the class due to to many abilities for comfortable binds for me game have to many of them and comes down to people fighting each other and roll the dice who have binded comfortably which binds and randomly picking a winner who rolled stone while opponent rolled scissor.

 

A game of picking best shoes can be entertaining in some situation... but having football game based on who picked best shoes is awkward. Yet people are passionate about football. Some people woudl say having no game of picking shoes and materials for shoes production in before football matches is dumbing game down... is that reasonable? Are football players worse at what they do, just becouse they dont have to craft their shoes?

 

Wouldn't you argue that the class with 300 binds has a really high skill ceiling? That class is probably way harder to use right? I mean, if every other class could be just as effective but with only 3 binds then that class would need looked at. However, if every class has the same requirements then it simply means the game has a higher skill ceiling.

 

I don't understand your last point. Shoe production has nothing to do with football, while your keyboard is the medium through which you play the game. The two don't correlate at all. There are football games that take into account the gear your players are wearing (and yes the shoes) and the benefits are...

 

I'm just going to stop there because this premise is getting pretty absurd. Can you re-explain your point?

 

*edit*

Let me take another crack at this. Your football analogy isn't apt because it doesn't have anything to do with utility. It's a passive, outside of the moment game function.

 

What would be a more apt comparison is when football games went from the SNES (B to Pass, A to sprint, control pannel to move) up to N64 (C-pannel to chose receiver, A to jump, B to stiff arm, R to Juke) to XBox (functionality like laterals etc. are added).

 

The Controls get more complicated. Now someone who played the N64 who picks up the Xbox game probably feels like because they don't have all the functionality down they feel like they aren't using their players to maximum effeciency.

 

That's because they aren't. It's not that the game is too complicated, it's that the skill ceiling was raised and now the player has something new to learn. Savy?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Scoobings

[wtfnonamefree]

I'm just going to stop there because this premise is getting pretty absurd. Can you re-explain your point?

 

You know, that he can't. Probably won't stop him from trying, though...

Edited March 15, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[EternalFinality]

OP is right. They need to remove redundant abilities and merge some. The saber throw / dispatch comment is a good point.

 

They also need macros.

[MPagano]

I play a jugg immortal spec. I have been a keybinder since I first started playing MMOs. This subject line caught my eye.

 

I play jazz piano, and I've frequently joked with my friends that if I didn't have that hand strength and flexibility then I would have to practice clicking.

 

I agree with the idea that ability bloat needs to be pruned and streamlined. macros would enable this, although BW has communicated that they do not intend on implementing macros anytime soon.

[MuNieK]

Wouldn't you argue that the class with 300 binds has a really high skill ceiling? That class is probably way harder to use right? I mean, if every other class could be just as effective but with only 3 binds then that class would need looked at. However, if every class has the same requirements then it simply means the game has a higher skill ceiling.

 

Yes, the skill of piano playing in short on forums called just "skill". I dont have it, i admit it - i can utilise only hotkeys i have listed in first post with exception for still comfortable shift+e,r,t,v,f. That doesnt require me to relocate my hand from my firm WASD comfortable position and i can transmit my intentions trough that firm interface to my character quite naturally without discomfortable struggle.

 

Im not good at this skill of piano playing indeed - but still there is humongous amount of players who are much much worse than me. But those players may have intelligence insetad, as i do have intelligence as my streght and i like to stimulate it while playing instead and i would like to utilise it in my gameplay comfortable way. Easy interface and complex gameplay - thats what people without piano-playing skill wants. Less hotkeys doesnt mean game is simpler... Unless you think chess is dumbed down games for noskills and idiots.

 

Please people stop filling this thread with your charmign story of how wonderfull piano-players you are or how happy you are with your keyboard-mouse - it just doesnt bring anything to discussion and only adds unneccesary pages.

 

If Bioware doesnt change their playerbase goal the people who prefer mind feast over fingers' struggle feast will just move to another game and swtor will stay labeled as game for skilled kids who are great at keyboard "piano-playing". Fine, i would just like to know if i should waste 1 more subscription in wait for some change or just move away already.

Edited March 15, 2012 by MuNieK

[Scotland]

if you have problems using a keyboard, maybe an xbox or PS3 would suit you better.

 

i dont own a multi button mouse and i have a standard keyboard

 

i use qwertyasdfgh1234567890-=F1F2F3F4F5F6F7F8F9F10F11F12 and tab

i use alt + 123456F1F2F3

i use shift + 1234F1F2F3F4

i use my middle mouse button, space, home, end, pgup, pgdn

i use alt + home end pgup pgdn

i use all numbers on numpad

and i use my mouse for moving my screen about and on occasion selecting targets.

i also use alt + wheeldown and wheelup

last but not least i also have alt + f that i use