To many abilities - piano playing must be reduced...

[Scoobings]

Thank you for trying to sound polite. However you missing one thing: I am capable fo using them. What im complainign about is the fact that its not comfortable... And while im playing game i want it comfortable, and not tiring my hands like if i would be pianist. Please read with understunding.

 

I have a hard time understanding you because you spell it "understund."

 

ZING, sorry I couldn't resist.

 

I get what you're saying. But that's why I was mentoining effeciency over and over again as well. You should figure out a way to make it comfortable for yourself, and figure out your new keybinds.

 

You're not the only person to complain about the amount of moves in this game, but in my experience usually the ones who complain about having "too many options" are people who aren't very good at MMOs. Not saying that's the case with you, but really that's essentially your complaint yes? Not enough keybinds for all the moves you have.

 

All I'm going to say is that I have a 2 button mouse, and I have every single move bound to a key (on my level 47 Jugg) and still have some open binds. I can hit every single bind I set with my left hand too, leaving my right hand to use the mouse (or depending on if I'm frisky or not )

 

I would rather have these moves split apart and have the ability to be resourceful than have them combined with one another and limit my utility.

 

As to your point about 300 vital moves.... if each individual move added some kind of new utility to my class I would probably think to myself: "well this class is OP" and then get to work binding the ones I deemed important enough to have on my keyboard.

[Howbadisbad]

Every ability is keybound on my character minus PvE damage and buffs.

 

Sadly though I cannot play the piano.

 

This.

[MuNieK]

Naga...

 

I also dislike the idea of Force Charge and Intercede being one skill, as they currently have two different cool downs. Nothing like clearing a Huttball because you jump to an ally then to the enemy at his goal line!

 

Same thing goes for the two saber throws, they are on different cool downs. It is common for me to use Saber Throw to knock them down to 20% so I can use Vicious.

 

Searching for holes in whole much? Tweaking the cooldowns to balance the consolidated abilities for all classes would come after consolidating them. So the outcome will be one: comfortable binds for all classes and remained balance. Point is you of course cant change things without changing them, so saying "consolidated ability A and B will be worse cause they are two different abilities" is unwise.

[Varicite]

Why cant we have charge and intercede merged into one ability that works two ways accordindgly to type of our target (ally/foe)?

 

Separate cooldowns mean you can use one and then the other for extra mobility. 2 jumps is always better than 1, especially for a melee class. This would be bad merge for PvP.

 

Why cant we have execute lightsaber throw effect merged with normall lightsaber throw (when enemy under x% of HP it do additional dmg)?

 

Again, why would you want to trade one of your VERY FEW ranged abilities to use when you're being kited to consolidate them into a single, less useful move?

 

Why cant we have our 3 survival defensive abilities merged into 2 abilities (one short cooldown and one longer)?

 

Eh, probably not much of a change, but again, sometimes it's more useful to spread out your defensive cooldowns instead of having to blow them all at once.

 

Learn to utilise chance-on-hit and chance-on-receiving-dmg effects... Just give our keyboards and hands a relief, cause its NO-GO at least for me atm. Im not willing to spend my time doing pvp this way.

 

Proc effects are far, far less useful (and less skillful) than activated abilities, and tend to "dumb down" a lot of classes. I'm saying this as a Pyro PT, if that tells you anything, lol.

 

Anyway, these were just my initial opinions from someone who does not actually play a Juggernaut (my fiancee whom I run WZs w/ every day is Immortal spec'd). I do think some abilities could be consolidated, but I'm not sure these are the ones.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Varicite

[JediDuckling]

We want to play some pvp, not be musicians to piano play the keyboard... Consolidate the skills and let us focus on awaraness whats happenign around, teamwork and timing insetad of constant full time piano playing we are forced to do if we want to use all the abilities in pvp... Its just bad design Bioware... PvP should be about reflex and quick thinking, not player vs keybinds tetris or situation where you force people to be clickers due to not enough comfortable hotkeys...

 

For example jaggernaut immortal:

 

- taunt enemy attacking our ally

- shield ally being attacked

- intercede ally for more protection

- aoe taunt for reduced dmg to ally

- aoe slow to make pvp with enemy acceptable (slow on ability that is not in main-rotation is also huge mistake - in pvp slow is crucial and should be on all classes' main abilities)

 

and thats just to start using actuall combat abilities... wihch also are scattered around to many skills not neccesarily...

 

Whats the point?

 

Why cant we have charge and intercede merged into one ability that works two ways accordindgly to type of our target (ally/foe)?

 

Why cant we have smash have the effect of aoe slow?

 

Why cant we have execute lightsaber throw effect merged with normall lightsaber throw (when enemy under x% of HP it do additional dmg)?

 

Why cant we have our 3 survival defensive abilities merged into 2 abilities (one short cooldown and one longer)?

 

Why do we need so many unneccesary keybinds?! Im fed up with this cooldown-tetris, hotkey piano-playing and i wont be a clicker you want me to be - if thats not gonna change i will just go play games where skill is measured with what i wrote above: wit, reflex and combat awaraness.

 

Swtor is first mmorpg i had to bind so many often-used shift+hotkeys... and im using half of the keyboard already...

 

Learn to consolidate abilities effects to show some respect towards your player's comfort. And for Christ's sake start playing your own game so we wont have to notify you about such a gamebreaking, funbreaking, UNCOMFORTABLE issues.

 

Learn to utilise chance-on-hit and chance-on-receiving-dmg effects... Just give our keyboards and hands a relief, cause its NO-GO at least for me atm. Im not willing to spend my time doing pvp this way.

 

The point is to make player often use only those keys:

 

Q,E,R,T,F,X,C,V,~,1,2,3,4, mouse3, mouse4

 

those are comfortable hotkeys we can use all the time without piano-playing.

 

But its not enoughto bind all those abilities you created as individual abilities.... Learn from games like Bloodline Champions where you had only handfull of keybinds and the PvP was intense and skill based like in no other 3rd person battleground/arena-like game. Playing that game your hand was on contstant dance of quick strokes yet it was comfortable. In swtor you have to move it around the keyboard all the time and stress it with all the modifier keys... unless you want to just abandon some abilities and never use them >.<

 

On top of that you still didnt thought its enough and you implemented relics with "on use" ability... thats 2 aditional things to use in combat... this is madness. Please admit you are making game for a clickers-only! Thats why you dont want us to have macros to utilise all those abilities by using only keyboard binds? Seirously, its 21th century.

 

this is not world of warcraft were everything is practicly done for you.

 

learn to play swtor it actualy requires some effort to use your class's

 

 

sort your ability bar out and use your abilitys just like everyone else does

[MuNieK]

As to your point about 300 vital moves.... if each individual move added some kind of new utility to my class I would probably think to myself: "well this class is OP" and then get to work binding the ones I deemed important enough to have on my keyboard.

 

OK, fair enough, now think that all of those 300 are important and all should be used from the perspective of pvp player like i am for long long time now (korean mmorpgs, wow, warhammer, aoc, aion, and all the rest of loud mmorpgs released after wow - been pvping in all of them cause thats what i find most entertaining). By not binding them all i feel im wasting class potential. And if one cant master whole potential of the class due to to many abilities for comfortable binds for me game have to many of them and comes down to people fighting each other and roll the dice who have binded comfortably which binds and randomly picking a winner who rolled stone while opponent rolled scissor.

 

A game of picking best shoes can be entertaining in some situation... but having football game based on who picked best shoes is awkward. Yet people are passionate about football. Some people woudl say having no game of picking shoes and materials for shoes production in before football matches is dumbing game down... is that reasonable? Are football players worse at what they do, just becouse they dont have to craft their shoes?

Edited March 15, 2012 by MuNieK

[ilovethepink]

Why cant we have charge and intercede merged into one ability that works two ways accordindgly to type of our target (ally/foe)?

 

Why cant we have smash have the effect of aoe slow?

 

Why cant we have execute lightsaber throw effect merged with normall lightsaber throw (when enemy under x% of HP it do additional dmg)?

 

Why cant we have our 3 survival defensive abilities merged into 2 abilities (one short cooldown and one longer)?

 

When macros' come in, you'll be able to make Intercede and Charge have the same button, just using a different one depending on who you're targeting (Friendly/harm)

 

Your saber throw is meant to generate focus, your dispatch is meant to use it. Two different purposes. But hey, a macro to make one be used on Alt/Ctrl/Shift and the other to be used by default will be available sometime soon.

 

Your slow is meant to be spammable (If you talent it) for control, Sweep is not.

 

You're a tank AC, you have access to CD's. What would be the point of condensing them?

Edited March 15, 2012 by ilovethepink

[bamsmacked]

The game doesn't have macros and hopefully never will so that people will actually have to rely more on skill rather than a macro.

[BrutalPain]

I use 29 keybind with my juggernaut. I dont even have to move my hand more than 1key distance, and i dont even look at my bars as i know if they should be ready or not. WoW has that much ability too and this game is World of Star Wars.

If you are lazy to practise and you dont enjoy playing on the level you are at just move ahead and play another game what dont requires to use 20+abilities like lol/dota or any fps. I doubt that you would enjoy those games to as any games requires to practise it, eg in lol/dota you should learn about 80+heroes abilities, builds for them, tactics for them, tactics for the team and such.

Imo you are just lazy but you still want to be the best.

[MuNieK]

The game doesn't have macros and hopefully never will so that people will actually have to rely more on skill rather than a macro.

 

Stop using word "skill"... You should have said this:

 

"The game doesn't have macros and hopefully never will so people will actually have to rely on keyboard-piano-playing rather than macro."

[bamsmacked]

Stop using word "skill"... You should have said this:

 

"The game doesn't have macros and hopefully never will so people will actually have to rely on keyboard-piano-playing rather than macro."

 

I'm sorry you can't taunt someone without a macro, things are hopeless for you.

[MuNieK]

I use 29 keybind with my juggernaut. I dont even have to move my hand more than 1key distance, and i dont even look at my bars as i know if they should be ready or not. WoW has that much ability too and this game is World of Star Wars.

If you are lazy to practise and you dont enjoy playing on the level you are at just move ahead and play another game what dont requires to use 20+abilities like lol/dota or any fps. I doubt that you would enjoy those games to as any games requires to practise it, eg in lol/dota you should learn about 80+heroes abilities, builds for them, tactics for them, tactics for the team and such.

Imo you are just lazy but you still want to be the best.

 

Wrong. There will be always better and worse than me. But i do want to utilise my character to the maximum without need of piano-playing while moving my character with WASD in meanwhile. Person few posts above you posted nice picture of good and bad keybinds but then removed it while noticing its what im saying

[JediDuckling]

Stop using word "skill"... You should have said this:

 

"The game doesn't have macros and hopefully never will so people will actually have to rely on keyboard-piano-playing rather than macro."

 

or you should of said this

 

 

learn to play the dam game and stop relying on macro's and game mods to do everything for you.

[MuNieK]

or you should of said this

 

 

learn to play the dam game and stop relying on macro's and game mods to do everything for you.

 

Are we talking about game or job? One could be outraged that someone want some things happen for someone else comfortably if that would be a job...

Edited March 15, 2012 by MuNieK

[MuNieK]

we disagree on this pattern:

 

I believe that skill in a game is:

agility of the mind and bit of reflex

 

You believe that skill in a game is:

agility of fingers and a bit of thinking

 

so we cant understund each other.

Edited March 15, 2012 by MuNieK

[Lymain]

I was pleasantly surprised to see the classes in this game use enough abilities for my tastes. Before I got to play in beta, I was expecting ~4 button rotations that would have bored me very quickly.

[sauerkraut]

Ouch! My last post was deleted and got a warning so I have to be very careful this time. So it's just an absolutely hypothetical question. Staying at the piano example. Have any of you ever thought about that its takes time practice and talent to became a good piano player.

[BrutalPain]

Wrong. There will be always better and worse than me. But i do want to utilise my character to the maximum without need of piano-playing while moving my character with WASD in meanwhile. Person few posts above you posted nice picture of good and bad keybinds but then removed it while noticing its what im saying

 

As i said im fine with my 29 keybind, i can use it without moving my hand without problem so if i can do it others can do it too. Btw you shouldnt use S to move, you should use it for an ability, just saying)

If your not lazy, you just dont like the gamestyle where you should use 20+ abilities besides moving i can only say again, play somethintg else, classes power and things like that are changing from patch to patch but this wont change.

[kantnerfme]

i can play piano all day and this is what i love about this game.

macros are for unskilled players >.<

[MuNieK]

As i said im fine with my 29 keybind, i can use it without moving my hand without problem so if i can do it others can do it too. Btw you shouldnt use S to move, you should use it for an ability, just saying)

If your not lazy, you just dont like the gamestyle where you should use 20+ abilities besides moving i can only say again, play somethintg else, classes power and things like that are changing from patch to patch but this wont change.

 

Hehe you took wrong the elitist "backpedaling" thing. If you want to cast thing on someone in front of you and in same time move few steps back you cant do that without having S as "move backwards" unless you want to spin your camera and loosing sight of whats happening there.

 

Anyway if you can use 29, 49, 159 keybinds comfortably good for you. I wish to congratulate you fingers agility.

Edited March 15, 2012 by MuNieK

[BrutalPain]

i can play piano all day and this is what i love about this game.

macros are for unskilled players >.<

 

In WoW when i started to play arena i was using many macros on my warrior to minimize the keys i need to use. As i slowly became better player i slowly gave up my macros and i separated to the pure abilities. The moment when i hit 2.2k i had only 1macro.

Ur right macros are for casual players, good player can use all abilities by himself and can make decisions what to use, not only use the sequence what he typed in the macro.

[Dego_Locc]

First I see ppl QQing about mailboxes and saying that we shouldn't have them, then I see ppling QQing about having gear, and that we have shouldn't have any and everyone should be the same and equal, then I see ppl saying this game is too hard, and they can't find any time to grind, but they want everything and they want it now, so we shouldn't have any grind, and now this?!

 

We have too many abilities?!

 

 

:facepalm:

 

This is an MMO, stop trying to make it a dumbed down simplistic arcade fighter ppl.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Dee-Jay]

translation " please give me only four abilities, i like being bored and don't like to use my brain to play. kthnx":rolleyes:

 

People like you are the best example of why this community sucks.

 

Can't even have a decent discussion despite a well-written post and a valid complaint. It only takes a moment before morons like you spout out your "L2P" because you happen to disagree.

 

 

As for the OP, I happen to agree to an extent.

 

SWTORs abilities are still bloated and haven't gone through sufficient iterations yet. They need to be stream-lined and consolidated a little.

 

The "only usable vs. weak mobs" abilities should be the first to go and many others could be consolidated/merged into more interesting abilities.

 

Bladestorm/Scream could be a conal attack making Cyclone Smash redundant. Sundering Strike/Assault could have its CD removed, making Strike obsolete.

 

Just cutting/merging ~5 abilities per class would go a long way towards making this game a lot less convoluted.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[vimm]

I like the amount of abilities; it makes things interesting. If you really think Immortal Juggernaut has too many though, I'm very sad for you, lol.

 

Perhaps try Arsenal Mercenary?

[BrutalPain]

Hehe you took wrong the elitist "backpedaling" thing. If you want to cast thing on someone in front of you and in same time move few steps back you cant do that without having S as "move backwards" unless you want to spin your camera and loosing sight of whats happening there.

 

Anyway if you can use 29, 49, 159 keybinds comfortably good for you. I wish to congratulate you fingers agility.

 

I just mentioned the backpedalling inside brackets but if you call me elitist for that i should say ok, good players not backpedalling, they use it for + 2 keybind in the best place so far on your keyboard. In this game you can move the camera around without turning, but if you are turning you can move the camera back. It means you always see what you want to no matters where your character is looking at.

I can use 29keys comfortably and im sure i cant use 49-159 comfortably, but luckily it wont happen in the game.