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To many abilities - piano playing must be reduced...


MuNieK

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We want to play some pvp, not be musicians to piano play the keyboard... Consolidate the skills and let us focus on awaraness whats happenign around, teamwork and timing insetad of constant full time piano playing we are forced to do if we want to use all the abilities in pvp... Its just bad design Bioware... PvP should be about reflex and quick thinking, not player vs keybinds tetris or situation where you force people to be clickers due to not enough comfortable hotkeys...

 

For example jaggernaut immortal:

 

- taunt enemy attacking our ally

- shield ally being attacked

- intercede ally for more protection

- aoe taunt for reduced dmg to ally

- aoe slow to make pvp with enemy acceptable (slow on ability that is not in main-rotation is also huge mistake - in pvp slow is crucial and should be on all classes' main abilities)

 

and thats just to start using actuall combat abilities... wihch also are scattered around to many skills not neccesarily...

 

Whats the point?

 

Why cant we have charge and intercede merged into one ability that works two ways accordindgly to type of our target (ally/foe)?

Why cant we have smash have the effect of aoe slow?

Why cant we have execute lightsaber throw effect merged with normall lightsaber throw (when enemy under x% of HP it do additional dmg)?

Why cant we have our 3 survival defensive abilities merged into 2 abilities(one short cooldown and one longer)?

 

Why do we need so many unneccesary keybinds?! Im fed up with this cooldown-tetris, hotkey piano-playing and i wont be a clicker you want me to be - if thats not gonna change i will just go play games where skill is measured with what i wrote above: wit, reflex and combat awaraness.

Swtor is first mmorpg i had to bind so many often-used shift+hotkeys... and im using half of the keyboard already...

 

Learn to consolidate abilities effects to show some respect towards your player's comfort. And for Christ's sake start playing your own game so we wont have to notify you about such a gamebreaking, funbreaking, UNCOMFORTABLE issues.

Learn to utilise chance-on-hit and chance-on-receiving-dmg effects... Just give our keyboards and hands a relief, cause its NO-GO at least for me atm. Im not willing to spend my time doing pvp this way.

 

The point is to make player often use only those keys:

Q,E,R,T,F,X,C,V,~,1,2,3,4, mouse3, mouse4

 

those are comfortable hotkeys we can use all the time without piano-playing.

 

But its not enough to bind all those abilities you created as individual abilities.... Learn from games like Bloodline Champions where you had only handfull of keybinds and the PvP was intense and skill based like in no other 3rd person battleground/arena-like game. Playing that game your hand was on contstant dance of quick strokes yet it was comfortable. In swtor you have to move it around the keyboard all the time and stress it with all the modifier keys... unless you want to just abandon some abilities and never use them >.<

 

On top of that you still didnt thought its enough and you implemented relics with "on use" ability... thats 2 aditional things to use in combat... this is madness. Please admit you are making game for a clickers and keyboard+keyboardmouse (like naga) only! Thats why you dont want us to have macros to utilise all those abilities by using only keyboard binds? Seirously, its 21th century.

 

edit:

to save you reading trough whole thread im copiyign here what concluded from discussion with people defending so many uncomfortable binds:

 

I believe that skill in a game is:

agility of the mind and bit of reflex

They believe that skill in a game is:

agility of fingers and a bit of thinking

so we cant understund each other.

 

edit2:

Smart way of implementing need of mastering the class' abilities is implementing just a handfull abilities with plenty of different effects accordingly to the state of the target, kind of the target and state of the caster. That applies to friend/foe, target HP, target CC status, target buffs/debuffs, range, caster buffs/debuffs (like one ability can be follow up of several others and have different effect with each of them), etc...

 

So you dont need piano playing and you still must invest a lot of practise in mastering the class. Thats how decent ability development looks like. Several comfy keys and plenty, plenty of outcomes dependant of their timing and follow-ups strategies.

Edited by MuNieK
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translation " please give me only four abilities, i like being bored and don't like to use my brain to play. kthnx":rolleyes:

 

even with his changes there are more than 20 left so stop acting like a elitist jerk.

there are a lot of redundant skills that need to be merged with others.

 

i wonder how many toolbars we will have when the first expansion hits.

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translation " please give me only four abilities, i like being bored and don't like to use my brain to play. kthnx":rolleyes:

 

I believe you misunderstud me. Im not complaining on stimulating my brain while doing competetive pvp which is all about stimulating brain (fighting against human beings is much more demanding than fighting against AI - where additional abilities and piano playing once in a while might be kind of substitution for a real challenge which is combining reflex, wit and awaraness). Im complaining about need of using 5 million keybinds and another 5 million of modifier+keybinds all the time.

 

So your translation is missleaded.

 

You havent ever seen Bloodline Champions i believe. Play there, you have like i believe 6-7 class abilities there and somehow pvp battles over there are tense and skill rewarding much more than swtor you know... and hey... noone gets bored with the fighting. Why? Becouse timing, reflex and wit matters there... no need of piano-playing.

 

Why Age of Conan implemented combos insetad of piano playing over whoel keyboard? Why Blizzard reduced number of abilities? WHy they removed "on-use" from trinkets? What, you want to tell me that arena-players e-sport nerds there are lame and you would defeat them single-handenly? You want to deceive me or yourself here?

 

Look at shooters, where all you have there is aiming + handfull abilities - you call that boring? No, becouse its all about timing them right and perfect the aiming and strategies. Same applies to pvp in mmorpgs with one difference, insetad of aiming you perfect strategies, combos and timing against other players strategies, combos and timing. If you love piano-playing or you simply play class that dont have to do that, and if you gonna voich for leaving everything as it is, then you may one day wake up with noone to pvp with.

Edited by MuNieK
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there is way too many jedi sentinel abilities

 

Pfft.

 

As a sawbones healer I use a ton of abilitys. You just get used to it.

 

I'd post a SS but suffice to say I have at least 30 keybinds .. and yes I use them ALL in PvP, not so much in PvE since I seldom bother to DPS anything in most PvE settings.

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even with his changes there are more than 20 left so stop acting like a elitist jerk.

there are a lot of redundant skills that need to be merged with others.

 

i wonder how many toolbars we will have when the first expansion hits.

 

You are making an issue out of a non-issue. If you have ever played any legitimate MMO then you would realize an excess of skills is nothing new to the genre. Many skills in the arsenal are for some people useful tools while others don't see them as such and tend to deprioritize them in their rotation. Plenty of players have no trouble keeping up with this so called excess of skills you are complaining about and have keybinds that work for their individual playstyle. Please do not request that Bioware dumbs down the game so that those of us who actually take the time and effort to learn, and establish effective keybinds can play well so that you can casually come and choose one of four buttons to hit in succession while running around pretending that you have any skill at all.

Edited by Paralassa
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If you want to play a game with less skills there are plenty of them out there. For example, Battlefield 3, you can have very exciting PVP battles in that game I hear, you only have two weapons. Or you could play DOTA, you only have 2-3 attacks.

 

Part of what makes an MMORPG what it is is the sheer diversity of skills that exist. Plenty of people enjoy it: I certainly do. It helps seperate the bad players from the good players who can actually handle and utilize 20-30 skills to its maximum potential.

 

Why your idea wouldn't work

 

- if you consolidated charge and intercede into one skill, you would lose the ability to use them consecutively. for example, when running the ball in huttball, you could intercede forward to an ally, and then charge again towards an enemy, covering a huge distance.

 

it's a dumbing down of the game - you make it easier and simpler for people, but it becomes less tactically rich game.

 

- combining smash with aoe slow, I don't even know where to begin... so you want to make this an ability that does high damage, has a stun, and also leaves a lingering slow? In which case I would like sorcs stun to also apply full DOT stacks, snipers going into cover also apply ballistic shield and entrench... why not make stealth openers also apply a snare. There is a reason all skills have limitations and niche uses - because it allows players to make a choice, and choosing the right skill to use requires skill.

 

- combining the two lightsabre throws again reduces the tactical options available. Right now if the enemy is at 35% hp, you can do your normal throw to drop him to 20%, then use your execute throw to finish him off. If you combined both the skills you wouldn't be able to do that.

 

---- In summary, you're asking for a dumbed down game with limited tactical options because your brain and fingers aren't fast enough to handle it. I may suggest you go to a simpler and easier game instead of playing SWTOR.

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Stop insulting other people and stop trying to boost your virtual ego. If you like piano playing or your character dont need it good for you. Its not good for others. And you wont get hurt if they consolidate them in logical manner. Even in most simple game you can make outstanding things so dont be worried about no room for skill show-off. The only thing people like me want reduced is skill of keyboard piano-playing. Not skill of playing pvp efficiently and thats 2 difference things. If you dont understund it tell me where you have troubles with compehending and i will try to guide you.
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i've only got 3 abilities in my rotation......

tracer missile

rail shot

unload

 

L2optimize noobs, there aren't too many abilities in the game there aren't enough decent ones.

Edited by Evuke
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What you're experiencing is what is interpreted in the MMO world is "skill." Not to make fun, or troll, or anything like that (sincere) but there are people who are able to do all that stuff at once and still maintain awareness.

 

The longer you play the game, the better you will become at having an intuitive sense of what is up, when you can do what, and more effecient ways of binding your keys. Players who are more experienced become more effecient and thus more effective.

 

If you water a game like this down you are lowering the skill ceiling and then players who have more of this particular "skill" are hindered.

 

Love it or hate it, this is a large factor in MMOs in general. Ability to be resourceful, maintain awareness, and effeciency are all what seperate the new people from the more veteran players, and thus the un, or less, skilled players from the skilled players.

 

Nothing personal ment by any of this. Simply my analysis of your problem and my view on MMOs.

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If you want to play a game with less skills there are plenty of them out there. For example, Battlefield 3, you can have very exciting PVP battles in that game I hear, you only have two weapons. Or you could play DOTA, you only have 2-3 attacks.

 

Part of what makes an MMORPG what it is is the sheer diversity of skills that exist. Plenty of people enjoy it: I certainly do. It helps seperate the bad players from the good players who can actually handle and utilize 20-30 skills to its maximum potential.

 

Why your idea wouldn't work

 

- if you consolidated charge and intercede into one skill, you would lose the ability to use them consecutively. for example, when running the ball in huttball, you could intercede forward to an ally, and then charge again towards an enemy, covering a huge distance.

 

it's a dumbing down of the game - you make it easier and simpler for people, but it becomes less tactically rich game.

 

- combining smash with aoe slow, I don't even know where to begin... so you want to make this an ability that does high damage, has a stun, and also leaves a lingering slow? In which case I would like sorcs stun to also apply full DOT stacks, snipers going into cover also apply ballistic shield and entrench... why not make stealth openers also apply a snare. There is a reason all skills have limitations and niche uses - because it allows players to make a choice, and choosing the right skill to use requires skill.

 

- combining the two lightsabre throws again reduces the tactical options available. Right now if the enemy is at 35% hp, you can do your normal throw to drop him to 20%, then use your execute throw to finish him off. If you combined both the skills you wouldn't be able to do that.

 

---- In summary, you're asking for a dumbed down game with limited tactical options because your brain and fingers aren't fast enough to handle it. I may suggest you go to a simpler and easier game instead of playing SWTOR.

 

Why nto creating 300 very vital skills then? Answer yourself and you will have my rpely to what you just wrote.

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What you're experiencing is what is interpreted in the MMO world is "skill." Not to make fun, or troll, or anything like that (sincere) but there are people who are able to do all that stuff at once and still maintain awareness.

 

The longer you play the game, the better you will become at having an intuitive sense of what is up, when you can do what, and more effecient ways of binding your keys. Players who are more experienced become more effecient and thus more effective.

 

If you water a game like this down you are lowering the skill ceiling and then players who have more of this particular "skill" are hindered.

 

Love it or hate it, this is a large factor in MMOs in general. Ability to be resourceful, maintain awareness, and effeciency are all what seperate the new people from the more veteran players, and thus the un, or less, skilled players from the skilled players.

 

Nothing personal ment by any of this. Simply my analysis of your problem and my view on MMOs.

 

Thank you for trying to sound polite. However you missing one thing: I am capable fo using them. What im complainign about is the fact that its not comfortable... And while im playing game i want it comfortable, and not tiring my hands like if i would be pianist. Please read with understunding.

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As i said: OK, i agree if you consolidate abilities to make them comfortably controlled without tiring hands while playing the piano on keyboard you are indeed making game tactically poorer, by that. But its also tactically poorer than game with 300 vital keybinds... WHy we dont want game with so many vital abilities to bind? And where is the border at which there is "to many" keybinds for you? For me its as i said: beyond the comfortable keybinds reach of the WASD hand placement. Its all we need to have gameplay rich enough to have blast and room for huge tactical teamwork and competetive pvp all beyond it is uncomfortable, hence less fun.
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I'll list mine for ha-ha's.

 

Sawbones healer.

 

Diagnostic Scan. (Jukeing !)

Under World Med.

Kolto Pack.

Slow release Medipack.

Emergency Medipack.

Kolto Cloud.

Triage.

Rakata Medipack / WZ medi pack (I swap 'em out)

 

Stealth.

Sneak.

Smuggle. (Admittedly I seldom use this one :p )

 

Blaster Volley.

Vital Shot.

Quick Shot.

Blaster Whip.

Thermal Grenade.

Tendon Blast.

Back Blast.

Shoot First.

Cheap Shot. (Does not work in PvP so dont use it in PvP)

Cool Head.

Pugnacity.

 

Crouch.

Sab Charge.

Charged Burst.

Distraction.

Tranq / Slice droid (Again i swap them, obviously Slice droid is not for pvp)

Dirty Kick.

Flash bang.

Defensive Screen.

Flyby.

Escape.

Vanish.

Heartrigger patch (dont really use this in pvp)

Relic.

WZ adrenal.

Rakata Adrenal (Does not break stealth when used, WZ one does, so I use both)

 

Yes I use them all ... yes I tend to end games with around 100-150K DMG and 300-500K healing depending on the game.

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Naga...

 

I also dislike the idea of Force Charge and Intercede being one skill, as they currently have two different cool downs. Nothing like clearing a Huttball because you jump to an ally then to the enemy at his goal line!

 

Same thing goes for the two saber throws, they are on different cool downs. It is common for me to use Saber Throw to knock them down to 20% so I can use Vicious.

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i've only got 3 abilities in my rotation......

tracer missile

rail shot

unload

 

L2optimize noobs, there aren't too many abilities in the game there aren't enough decent ones.

 

and you are lvl 20? come back when you have dinged 50 and tell me you still only using 3 ability's...

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I have to admit i'm siding with the op here. My limit of comfortably knowing, being able to swap between specs and characters is a good 21 hotkeys, and clicking all the rest. Luckily all sage specs usually only take up 2 skillbars, with some specs not using certain skills in their rotation. However on my scoundrel at only lvl 26 i'm already feeling 'overwhelmed' with skills to use, and thats with 30 hotkeys thanks to cover.

 

While it is nice to have choices it is silly to just split up utilities in so many different skills. (for example scoundrel wise, why not make the insta stealth during combat a passive onto the stealth toggle that allows you to trigger the toggle once every 2 minutes during combat. End result is the same, just makes skillbars a bit cleaner. )

 

 

 

edit: btw i also use a naga, used to just use number row on top of keyboard (or f keys) for maybe 14 total skills and click the rest, naga just made it easier to do wasd movement without having to break combat.

Edited by elvavwiel
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