Unfortunately, WAR / Rift tried, but failed. Both had challenging PvE and good PvP, yet they failed to get players to leave WoW. SWTOR is so mind-numbingly easy, I don't recall playing a game that easy in my life, and I'm 31. I feel like I'm playing any game in Godmode when I do my class story. I basically never lose any health. on my operative, Send my companion in, I backstab the mobs, rinse repeat. On my bounty hunter, i don't even need a companion, I just death from above them then use my basic attack while eating a sandwich. Mind you, those two 50s are on dead servers, that were 'heavy' when I created them. That says something about the sad state of the game. GW1 had much better competitive PvP than WoW. Saying WoW as the most competitive PvP game, because of their ranking and tournaments, is completely missing the mark. popular =/ better.

I miss the days where I would log on my PC in the morning to read all the QQ about gigantic clashes in RvR, read people calling names and challenging guilds / alliances for another fight the next evening, the desire to get better to make your opponents shut their traps, to post SS and videos of a particular troll's guild / alliance ownage, the HATE for some people, the LOVE to HATE these people. This is competition, that can only be found in RvR games, where an alliance of good players can really dominate an entire server, even with lesser numbers. What a great challenge that was playing WAR on the outnumbered realm.

I kind of agree that defined settings is more competitive, but a game like WAR had both, and still failed. PvP centric games needs more resources and bring less incomes than casual games. Really, PvP games are a niche and pretty much any Devs wanting to start a project with that in mind will have to deal with that audience. They could have made SWTOR more PvP oriented but the same 'rage' would have been exponentially raised on the forums by casuals not having a chance to fight and class imbalances. But SWTOR also missed the mark PvE-wise. This is really a badly designed MMO, there's no challenge in PvE and PvP is botched.

Hadcore PvP games are niche and never mainstream. Reason ? people hate dying. Everybody hates dying. But what differentiates the best players that can organize groups, strategies, with the most common denominator PuG casual, is right there. Best players would group, strategize and win, the casual PuG saw no point fighting and unsubbed. That's how and why those games died. They're meant for hardcores, with a hardcore grind attached to it. SWTOR (I don't kniow if you defend the game or are just against world PvP for some obscure reason) is failing in all categories, unless you're a casual PvEer that likes storytelling. Tell me again that a game that had world PvP AND more warzones (WAR) failed more than SWTOR, from a PvPer PoV. Thanks. At least the WAR servers had 200k-300k players for YEARS of RvR. At the end of this summer, I'm pretty sure SWTOR won't even have 100k, even with the Star Wars name on it. I know I am a Star Wars fan, and I pretty much wanted to LOVE SWTOR, but the PvP is terrible.

LOL some people never played DAOC or WAR... open world PvP is where you can have the most fun for hardcore PvPers, not gear chasers. Imagine somthing : In DAOC / WAR, a solid premade could take on 4 times their numbers. A solid warband could take out hundreds of players and take castles, control an entire map with good strategy and communication between groups of people. That's WARFARE. Arenas, BGs, WZs are minigames. They are repetitive and boring. In a 100 vs 100 fight, the outcome is unpredictable, and a terrain advantage can lead to a quick wipe if all cards are played right, but it can also result in a long siege battle where both sides establish a frontline and play defensively with tanks in the front, MDPS hitting and running and RDPS sniping everything in sight, healers keeping people alive, and have massive fun in an undefinite setting. For HOURS you can PvP and finally capture an objective, to have it ninjaed by a coordinated 24 man bombing the hell out of you, catching you flatfooted. I never had such an incredible PvP experience in any other games, DAOC had it right, and WAR came close (needed a 3rd faction to help fight the biggest zerg). Zerg vs zerg can look like a big mess from the outside, but get a good team, learn your class and you literally can chagne the tide of a battle with good strategy and coordination, taking out people going on a kill frenzy with a warband backing you up, and even with lesser people you could mop the floor and feel incredibly strong, reinforcing the MMO feeling of playing with friends and accomplishing something. Then there was PvP on forums and QQ / troll threads about good players / guilds / alliances that made these games EPIC, because you had recognition for your hard fought work. Even the losing side would have fun considering the massive fights and the plenty of kills and oportunity to kill that happened for HOURS each and every day, when these games were populated. With all the imbalances they had, with the bugs WAR was released with, those games had much better PvP, simply because they were designed with world PvP as a top priority and people fought over those world PvP objectives for YEARS with their main toons, not something SWTOR will accomplish with the current PvE priority mindset galvanized with terribly repetitive WZs. Mind you, WAR also had a good dozen Scenarios (WZs) they would rotate to play 12 vs 12, 6 vs 6 if you are into that, and just that is MORE PvP content than SWTOR. I just LOL at SWTOR pitiful attempt at PvP, even if they hired the Mythic crew, they obviously didn't listen to them. World PvP isn't ganking lowbies in PvE zones. It's going in a PvP area DESIGNED for world PvP with your main geared toon and compete endlessly for control with the opposing faction(s). Alliances then have a real reason to exist. Without world PvP, there's not really any needs to be allied with other guilds. There's not even a reason to have a guild bigger than 15 people.

Op is the best healer because : 1) Combat stealth is much more efficient at relieving pressure (getting people off of you), you start by kiting 1-2 attackers, but when more pile on you and chain CC, you can pop evasion, toxin scan (remove DoTs) then stealth. 2) HoT that proc TAs that you can use for an instant direct healing ability, that refreshes the TA (tactical advantage) if below 30% HP, so that means that you can basically spam that ability. 3) Toxin scan that heals (don't cost any energy) when you remove debuffs, wich you should use often even if it actually decreases your healing numbers on the scoresheet (damage that don't happen don't have to be healed). And you cleanse snares on your teammates or yourself, that really helps. 4) 15% speed boost, enough said. 5) Cover for when you hide in your team and you don't want anyone leaping on you or pulling you. You can use it wisely also to create distance between you and an opponent. 6) 12 second snare on a 12 second cooldown, 10m range, that means if you have 1 attacker on you you can basically run in circle around him the whole time, make him waste his leap(s), while you can remove his snare and heal through his damage without fear of being interrupted (no casted heals, unless you're unlucky with TA procs, or out of energy so you can't refresh HoTs on your teammates) 7) sleep dart - when a big clash is going to happen, like in mid Alderaan, you can stealth in the ennemy backline and Mez one of their players (I usually try to mez their healer before he gets in combat), forcing him to either use his CC breaker ability or wait 60 secs (lol). If he uses his CC breaker you can mez him again, he gets a full resolve bar but sleep dart lasts longer than resolve. Such an underused ability by OP healers.

Don't nerf me bro, in other words. /popcorn

Don't nerf me brah posts are so funny to read. /popcorn

nope.

OP even says he thinks they need a slight buff. Obvious troll is obvious. In the end if you reply anything serious in this thread, you just got trolled, hard.

Don't nerf me brah posts are fun to read. Kudos !

Well, I don't play any other types of games that takes 30 keybinds and good situationnal awareness, despite GCDs wich eases the button mashing, than SWTOR and MMOs in general. A lot of people can't use 30 keybinds and have to click numerous of their skills if they want to use them, or just chose to not use them. Once you're acustomed though, it makes a real difference. That's the biggest thing to learn when switching from FPS to MMO PvP, since you need situational awareness for both.

Yeah right because comparing a GAME to the OLYMPICS is totally relevant. So funny reading people saying 'I WORKED hard getting gear', 'In whatever pro event if you lose you get nothing'. Get a clue. You stomp undergeared players and call it fair game ? Because they have less free time ? Maybe one day you'll realise how pathetic you sound.

No wonder why you post non-sense, you didn't l2read when you were young. I explicitely said you have to focus on objectives first, and NOT chase healers all over the place. I said if a healer heals close to an objective, fine, but focus firing anyone close to the objective works anyways. Please point out where I wrote that you should leave a healer unattended? Way to quote a post and not reading it.

In my wall of text on page 31 : 'That works for both sides. I know, when I get to premade it up with a good mara, that I'll be focus healing him and that'll he'll be on the objectives much longer and have more influence than any other AC on the outcome of a battle. Dosen't mean though that they wouldn't need a slight tweak. IMO, they should just buff tanks defensive stats so that they survive better than mara / sent. Then healers could use tank stats (mods) and survive a lot more and we'd have longer TTK and everybody happy.' maras / sent would go down on the totem pole of 'survivability class' and remain on top of 'sustained melee burst class'.

Yet, in my other posts I wrote EXACTLY what you told me to do, wich is asking for a buff to tanking stats so that tanks actually outlast mara/ sent. And you told me that was QQ...

Really that dosen't mean anything. I broke 500k damage and usually deal 400k damage with a lethality spec, just tab DoTing people, and dealing damage that dosen't kill anyone in less than 30 secs. Surprisingly, when I do that though, I feel I'm good and get a lot of MVP votes, even though all I did was taking advantage of healer-less PuG ownage. But anyways, since this is basically the goal in SWTOR, well, I enjoy it. So funny Tab DoTing everyone, then die, then 5-10 seconds after you respawn, you get a solo kill medal. MVP votes yummyyummy

You don't understand a iota aren't you ? I'm saying 'play objectives first, focus fire' you say 'don't let a healer free cast yaddayadda'. Dosen't matter if you let a healer free cast, focus firing will inevitably lead to an ennemy's death, through guard and heals. Unless the ennemy is a mara or sent, or any class that can stealth in combat, to a much lesser extent, because as soon as they are DoTed it'll break the stealth and you'll be able to select / kill them. That'd be funny actualyl to have a good PvP group with good healers play your tunnel visionning 'kill healers first' mindset, as a good healer will kite your DPS away from objectives and CC you out of range around a corner. Sure, if said healer is actively healing his teammates close to an objective, you pile on him, but if you automatically mark a healer and go all out 'healer hunting', you'll lose objectives eventually. Focus firing anyone gives far better results. Ohhh a tank guarding our target, just switch to the tank. I'm tellin you, peopel would rather focus fire a tank than a mara, since everyone knows they'll pop invulnerability / then stealth and run away or get healed. But let's just focus on the actual discussion. you say tanks survive just as much, PURE CRAP. I have a full BM vanguard, okay, assault spec they kick asses, shield spec they still kick asses with DPS gear, but with tanking gear they quite suck. And as far as defensive cooldowns, I have one 25% damage reduction bubble, one weak self HoT and one accuracy debuff. If I wear my shield and use shield stance I'll have more armor but that dosen't come even close to Mara / sent survivability, and ability to HEAL through focus fire when they're about to DIE. Don't you understand the disparity ? And nope, dosen't take skill to use UR, since every bad FOTM rerolls seem able to use it when low on HP, and nope I don't see maras / sent using more abilities than other classes, sorry to burst your bubble (actually, I use 28 keybinds on my healing operative, that's the most I use of any of my characters). Anyway since 1.2 hit this is a glaring obvious imbalance and devs will have a look at it. What they did to Operatives / Sorcs, you too are gonna get it.

I agree with you, the maras use this eroneous arguement that you should always focus healers first, and that's not true, not at all, in an objective type of battle. What you should do mainly is to play the objective, and if you waste time and resources trying to run around to kill a good healer, and in the meantime you lose your objective, you're doing it wrong. Anyways, ALL the other ACs just die when focus fired, but Maras don't. Maras can pop UR, get healed THRU focus fire with medpack + heal, then pop stealth to get out, or simply keep dealing DPS and die, 5 or 10 or 15 seconds later. But once their UR is used, they'll die no matter how much healing they get, if they are focus fired, even when healed. I'm healing. I know that when some teammate gets hit by 3-4 geared ennemy DPS, he's down unless we have the same amount of geared healers focus healing him, and that never happens. A single healer can't really save someone that is focus fired, only mara/ sent can survive that, and Operative, scoundrels, assassin, shadows when they pop stealth (on a longer cooldown than mara / sent combat stealth, mind you). I wouldn't be against a slight nerf to UR (99% damage reduction, 99% healing reduction) or to remove their stealth ability or shorten the duration of it (like 1-2 secs, so you could have the chance to be able to re-target them and finish them of before they run away). And that's why, in objective WZs, that you shouldn't be always running around killing healers, preferably, you'd be focusing on objectives and focus firing people that get close to the objective. Mara / sent gets a bit of longer uptime, and that can piss people off that they can't focus fire them like every other AC, and that's the main grief. Anyways, let the mara / sent run away and heal and focus on objectives with your own sent / mara stacked team. That works for both sides. I know, when I get to premade it up with a good mara, that I'll be focus healing him and that'll he'll be on the objectives much longer and have more influence than any other AC on the outcome of a battle. Dosen't mean though that they wouldn't need a slight tweak. IMO, they should just buff tanks defensive stats so that they survive better than mara / sent. Then healers could use tank sets and survive a lot more and we'd have longer TTK and everybody happy.

NERFFF Hi I'm rock, nerf paper, and nerf scissor too while you're at it because I'm a fail rock.

Why don,t you roll a class that hard counters Sorcs ? Sentinel, shadows, vanguard, scoundrel. They all eat sorcs for breakfast. On my vanguard I usually solo kill DPS sorc with 90% HP left.

Lol, name one other successful title where healers are basically fodder to any DPS class played by a decent player ? ...................................... There's none. Like I said, Vanguard tank, 3 interrupts, 2 stuns, good sustained damage, I rack up 400k damage - 200k prot on average . I'm not asking for healers to be OP, I'm telling you a healer shouldn't lose solo against a DPS. He should be able to heal himself and keep the DPS at bay, but the healer shouldn't be able to kill the DPS either. healer vs DPS 1v1 should be a stalemate. Period. if not, why play a healer ? I'll just play another char or respecc DPS. And SWTOR is BLEEDING SUBS, just FYI. Also, where did I say I should be able to ignore 1 and tank 3 DPS ? Stop spewing crap and enjoy it while it lasts. And gimme your IGN and server so I'll make sure I never put a HoT or try to burst heal you with a relic + adrenal to save you from dieing like a baddie. When the stars are aligned I can chain crit heal people like that, but when they're on cooldown and / or don't chain crit, you'd die either way. So I'll be waiting for you to give me a clear example of a successful MMO where the healers aren't able to keep people up. Wz's work fine without healers also... Be glad I don't know who you are, idiots don't like to hang around me for too long, I persecute them. PvP for you seems to be rather simplistic and rather like FPS style of PvP. You're probably one of those carebears leaving games vs premades because they came in with a balanced team and that you can't do anything. No need for healers in WZs lol, how about no need for healers in PvE also ? Why'd you need them for crapstatic PvE but wanna leave them on the sidelines in PvP ? No wonder why this game's community is fail. Carebears wanting no heal games, only whackamole killing, no teamwork and coordination, just KILL AND AI KILLAND AI KILL.

A symptom of healers becoming rather harder to play than before is that, when solo Queuing, you rarely get a dedicated healing player on your team. Healers are either grouping in guild groups or just stop playing their healer and play a DPS. If you people think a healer should be dieing 1v1 vs a DPS, you don't know what balance is. How can a healer have a shot at keep a whole group up when he can't even keep himself up against 1 player ? Oh and BTW, I was dropping healers solo before 1.2, on my shield spec (DPS gear) vanguard. How can healers heal when you have 3 interrupts and 2 stuns ? yeah, well, they can't. On my shield spec vanguard I have absolutely no bursty damage, yet, I can slowly kill a healer solo and he can't basically get away. And since I always like to play harder classes : I rerolled an operative healer after 1.2, because I knew there was going to be a greater demand for them, played by good players (and I think I am one of those decent to good player, with any class). When I have a great DPS or tank on me (I know when I get chain interrupted, etc, that player is gonna give me a lot of trouble), it's pretty hard for me to stay alive and keep my group alive, and in the end I'll probably die out of ammo, chain interrupted with bad luck on tactical advantages, or I'll survive but my teammates will all be dead. My teammates say I'm doing fairly good, but having played healers in many other games, I feel it's frustrating to Hell to play a healer in SWTOR, specially undergeared rerolls. I can understand how lame it can be playing a healing merc / commando / sorc / sage. Operative at least can heal on the run better and pop stealth to position themselves better or to get away from bad situations. The other healers are pretty much fodder if left unsuported. I guess if people like healerles PuGs, fine. Be careful what you wish for.

Sync-Queuing ? Really ? I mean, don't you see that it's basically exploiting the Queuing mechanic, not really meant to be ? Then you come on these forums begging them to 'fix' pvP, when you simply exploit the mechanic to give you an unfair advantage, since you basically know that the other side has no chance ? Also, why sync Q when the only times you lose to puGs is when you admitedly **** up ? I usually think 'hate the game, not the players', but in your case, your guild is the culprit. In WAR, a lot of douche guilds sync Qued and their talent / skill was thus never truely recognized. How can individuals in your guild get recognition when you Sync Q against Pugs ? The only thing your oponent will think is that you're a bunch of carebears needing to exploit Qs to make sure you win 100%. That's terribly lame. I have no tissues for you, keep crying.

Yeah, my guess is that they'll try to split up the blob with the design of the battlefield, to have the NEED to control multiple objectives at same time, so that you don't really need all 300 players fighting over the same pixels. Experiencing a good framerate with 100 people is already pretty good actually. When they'll have their system fully optimized, maybe they'll be fine. But on MMORPG.com, there is a lot of complaints about lag, and other issues. We'll see but don't buy the hype, expect GW2 to have problems too.