Mara/Pally Bubble needs to be looked at(Undying Rage)

[silent-sniper]

ok. will do. NEXT! lol

 

what no argument? Because you know you are wrong?

[herb]

As a Vanguard I could only wish my shield was that good.

 

Mara/Sent have by far better survivability than the Shield spec Vanguard. I find it odd that a Dps class can out live a tank class. But i'm not a fan of them taking the hand held shield stat out of pvp.

[BiggDirty]

All of you who are defending this ability, are speaking from a casual warzone perspective.

 

Yes, under normal circumstances when you're playing with randoms, it's simply used to live for 5 seconds longer before you die, no big deal.

 

However, in the only kind of PvP that actually MATTERS, which is ORGANIZED PvP... any kind of immunity from damage is absolutely game breaking.

 

The assassin ability has already ruined huttball completely, and if we ever get arena in this game, you will see how retardedly OP these damage immunity abilities are. Every single team will HAVE to have a marauder or an assassin, because the ability to completely negate burst damage is by FAR the most valuable ability in the game. (or in any game for that matter)

 

There is a reason that every single 5v5 arena team in WoW had a paladin on it.

 

I have already dropped my sage and re-rolled sentinel specifically because of this ability, because I can see where this is headed.

[AGoldCrayon]

This all basically translates to: I don't want to pay attention during a fight, I want to mash keys and bang bang dead people.

 

DPS

1. Marauder pop's UR
   
2. I snare and kite for 4 seconds, or I stun
   
3. I regen energy/heat
   
4. UR comes off and I pop my big moves again
   

 

Healer

1. Marauder pop's UR
   
2. I snare, cleanse and kite for 4 seconds, or I mez and heal
   
3. I avoid incoming dmg and heal
   
4. UR comes off and I go back to kiting and healing and DoT'ing the Marauder until I get help or he dies.
   

 

Tank

1. Marauder pop's UR
   
2. I push or stun or stealth. UR nulified
   
3. Back to tanking
   

 

Sad Terriblez

1. Marauder pop's UR
   
2. I pound on him doing 8 damage while he obliterates me and heals back 20% of his health.
   
3. I go to forums to QQ
   

 

Pretty much.

 

wrong. but nice try. ty for your input

 

Oh man, you present such a logical riposte to his argument! Oh wait, you didn't.

 

Just a quick weigh-in from a Kinetic Tank:

 

1. This ability gives Sentinels/Marauders better survivability under focus fire than anything in Kinetic's arsenal.

 

2. They should take a pretty significant hit to damage while it is active but also be immune to all controlling effects for the duration (snares, roots, stuns, mezzes).

 

3. It shouldn't cost them any health to use.

 

4. It should be useable while CC'ed, though it shouldn't break the CC (it should prevent the application of new ones in respect to suggestion #2).

 

5. They should get a burst of speed while it is active.

 

6. It should have a dramatically noticeable graphic for its duration.

 

This would make UR stronger than it already is. I say go ahead, OP will be back in a week bawling his eyes out over changes like that.

 

For the OP. Your comparrison is a false equivocation, as already pointed out by multiple posters. Multiple counters to UR have already been demonstrated, and all you can come back with is 'well what if he charges or his resolve bar is full?' Learn to dead zone him, which will work on 2 out of the 3 marauder specs, or learn not to fill his resolve bar like a moron at the wrong time.

[jokerxdragon]

UR is recognizable and can easily be countered. I agree with earlier posters, if this Marauder is obliterating multiple people in the span of 5-6 seconds, then the problem is not the Marauder. Edited March 11, 2012 by jokerxdragon

[Proppa]

Terrible idea, have you actually tried playing a Marauder? I have no ranged abilities unlike almost every other class I've played. So to do anything at all, I have to leap in. Leaping in, means I'm going to be taking every ranged classes DPS. Without the bubble, the Sentinel/Marauder would be pointless to play.

 

I have a Vanguard, which has better abilities than my Sentinel, I have charge, I ahve harpoon, stun grenade, PBAE stun etc. My Sentinel has Charge and a Snare, the Vanguard makes a much better ball carrier.

 

The ammount of times, I try to get to someone, just to get punted away, or any kind of CC then as soon as I'm 4+ meters away I can't do a single thing.

 

In all honesty, I think besides the DPS/Bubble, the Sentinel requires probably the most skill to play as you HAVE to put yourself in harmsway. My Sorc/Vanguard can just range everything down and still have great defensive cooldowns. Or my friends Commando I play which has better DPS, heals, punts etc.

[Anthiel]

ffs are you people still ************ about a 6 sec skill that requires 50% health sacrifice?

[thepilk]

It shouldnt reduce output because then a maruader would have to turn of his own function (a dps class) to use it.

 

If anything were to be changed, Id just make it require consuming 30 stacks of centering... that way Watchman spec (the actual culprit) cant use it WITH zen, giving them a window of burn healing and a window of free DOT crits.

 

For any other build, that 6 seconds of invincibility isnt bad... 2 specials, 2 GCDs. Against a Watchman youre getting DOT damage+melee hits+ autocrits+ healing for 6 seconds. Against any other build, youre just getting 2 attacks spaced out by 2 GCDs.

 

So I could see it being a centering ability to prevent synergy with zen, but even then I dont have too much of a problem with it.. mainly because roots/snares ignore resolve, so you can just movment impare the target and run away if the resove bar is full, and cc them if its not.

[kiroshei]

Terrible idea, have you actually tried playing a Marauder? I have no ranged abilities unlike almost every other class I've played. So to do anything at all, I have to leap in. Leaping in, means I'm going to be taking every ranged classes DPS. Without the bubble, the Sentinel/Marauder would be pointless to play.

 

I have a Vanguard, which has better abilities than my Sentinel, I have charge, I ahve harpoon, stun grenade, PBAE stun etc. My Sentinel has Charge and a Snare, the Vanguard makes a much better ball carrier.

 

The ammount of times, I try to get to someone, just to get punted away, or any kind of CC then as soon as I'm 4+ meters away I can't do a single thing.

 

In all honesty, I think besides the DPS/Bubble, the Sentinel requires probably the most skill to play as you HAVE to put yourself in harmsway. My Sorc/Vanguard can just range everything down and still have great defensive cooldowns. Or my friends Commando I play which has better DPS, heals, punts etc.

 

This is true. Its also true for every melee class in this game. Noone is saying to take away your survivability. Take away your dmg/healing during this defense though. Or one or the other. Right now you get full dmg output & full healing recieved while being godmode. Its silly.

[ilovethepink]

It shouldnt reduce output because then a maruader would have to turn of his own function (a dps class) to use it.

 

If anything were to be changed, Id just make it require consuming 30 stacks of centering...

 

Sadly if they did this, you would have the choice to do back-to-back Guarded with Valorous Call, something which would spark an even bigger row. I do like that train of through, preventing it from being used in conjunction with Zen (Which, is the biggest issue to be quite fair, a Sentinel can solo defend a base for so long because of this, zen healing and cloak).

 

And to the post below

 

 

And it will screw up our ability in pvp/pve and make the class even more unattractive causing more people to roll sorc and BH.

 

 

Again, fairly true. Been leveling up an Assassin in PvP (Yes, hate me if you want) and I've seen so few Marauders, compared to Comm/Sages it's been a joke. The few I've seen have either been godly or terrible.

Edited March 11, 2012 by ilovethepink

[ISpyI]

Wait what class are we talking about again?

99% of the people complaining about Mara/sents D cooldown seem to know nothing about the class. Ive wasted my time actually reading to page ten and in all honesty some of the descriptions of my classes abilities made me question whether this thread was actually about Marauders.

 

Facts you should know about sents/mara before you make a thread like this again:

 

We are a pure DPS. ALL of our tress are DPS. dont have any tanking trees or healing trees or CC trees and what not just DPS.

 

we can heal ourselves slightly, if speced to it via burn effects if they crit.

 

the 99% CD requires half our health and lasts a few seconds. After that we are good as dead (Just put a Dot on us and walk away). Saying that if we have a healer on us blah blah blah is complete BS. thats like saying hey their damage should be nerfed because 2 of them can kill me super fast.

 

There is No way a Mara can kill 2 or more sane people just with this cooldown alone. 1v1 yes it gives us a slight edge if we are in melee range if not, again we are good as dead.

 

That being said yes we are a really good class and can be slightly over powered if played right, however we are also one of, if not the, hardest classes to play. Therefore alot of people will not/can not use this class to the fullest making mara/sents in the ok range. out of all the things you can nerf on the Mara/sent class trust me this isnt it. And it will screw up our ability in pvp/pve and make the class even more unattractive causing more people to roll sorc and BH.

[Draeb]

All of you who are defending this ability, are speaking from a casual warzone perspective.

 

Yes, under normal circumstances when you're playing with randoms, it's simply used to live for 5 seconds longer before you die, no big deal.

 

However, in the only kind of PvP that actually MATTERS, which is ORGANIZED PvP... any kind of immunity from damage is absolutely game breaking.

 

The assassin ability has already ruined huttball completely, and if we ever get arena in this game, you will see how retardedly OP these damage immunity abilities are. Every single team will HAVE to have a marauder or an assassin, because the ability to completely negate burst damage is by FAR the most valuable ability in the game. (or in any game for that matter)

 

There is a reason that every single 5v5 arena team in WoW had a paladin on it.

 

I have already dropped my sage and re-rolled sentinel specifically because of this ability, because I can see where this is headed.

 

 

 

I just want to bump this post since a few of you appear to have missed it.

[EternalFinality]

The assassin ability has already ruined huttball completely, and if we ever get arena in this game, you will see how retardedly OP these damage immunity abilities are. Every single team will HAVE to have a marauder or an assassin, because the ability to completely negate burst damage is by FAR the most valuable ability in the game. (or in any game for that matter)

 

There is a reason that every single 5v5 arena team in WoW had a paladin on it.

 

Because Paladins were HEALERS. They could HEAL while bubbled. Sentinels do not heal. They can only deal damage. And there are numerous counters to this ability.

 

Every single 5v5 arena team did not have a Ret Paladin on it.

 

ffs are you people still ************ about a 6 sec skill that requires 50% health sacrifice?

 

5 seconds.

Edited March 11, 2012 by EternalFinality

[kiroshei]

Wait what class are we talking about again?

99% of the people complaining about Mara/sents D cooldown seem to know nothing about the class. Ive wasted my time actually reading to page ten and in all honesty some of the descriptions of my classes abilities made me question whether this thread was actually about Marauders.

 

Facts you should know about sents/mara before you make a thread like this again:

 

We are a pure DPS. ALL of our tress are DPS. dont have any tanking trees or healing trees or CC trees and what not just DPS.

 

we can heal ourselves slightly, if speced to it via burn effects if they crit.

 

the 99% CD requires half our health and lasts a few seconds. After that we are good as dead (Just put a Dot on us and walk away). Saying that if we have a healer on us blah blah blah is complete BS. thats like saying hey their damage should be nerfed because 2 of them can kill me super fast.

 

There is No way a Mara can kill 2 or more sane people just with this cooldown alone. 1v1 yes it gives us a slight edge if we are in melee range if not, again we are good as dead.

 

That being said yes we are a really good class and can be slightly over powered if played right, however we are also one of, if not the, hardest classes to play. Therefore alot of people will not/can not use this class to the fullest making mara/sents in the ok range. out of all the things you can nerf on the Mara/sent class trust me this isnt it. And it will screw up our ability in pvp/pve and make the class even more unattractive causing more people to roll sorc and BH.

 

Yes. Having 8 full battlemaster geared players beat on you and you not die is intended. While it only takes 1 battlemaster geared player to kill a tank. Perhaps move this ability to the AC tank specs instead. Why should a dps get a godmode button? Ret pallies got the godmode button and look what they did with it before blizzard nerfed it. Casually i never cared. Rated warzones however this is way too OP.

[Digtahk]

I can picture OP furiously mashing his buttons trying to finish a Marauder off he found on low health only to be hit with a 3K smash and killed....BW have got it wrong this ability is a last roll of the dice type ability and I think all hits should be automatic crits while the ability is up. The marauder is pretty much dead anyway once it runs out...

[Swarna]

All of you who are defending this ability, are speaking from a casual warzone perspective.

 

Yes, under normal circumstances when you're playing with randoms, it's simply used to live for 5 seconds longer before you die, no big deal.

 

However, in the only kind of PvP that actually MATTERS, which is ORGANIZED PvP... any kind of immunity from damage is absolutely game breaking.

 

The assassin ability has already ruined huttball completely, and if we ever get arena in this game, you will see how retardedly OP these damage immunity abilities are. Every single team will HAVE to have a marauder or an assassin, because the ability to completely negate burst damage is by FAR the most valuable ability in the game. (or in any game for that matter)

 

There is a reason that every single 5v5 arena team in WoW had a paladin on it.

 

I have already dropped my sage and re-rolled sentinel specifically because of this ability, because I can see where this is headed.

In organized PVP, you're going to have a root or a mez for when a Marauder uses UD. Furthermore, it's going to be absolutely predictable and easy to tell when a Marauder is going to use it (at low HP...).

 

It's really not as ridiculous as you're making it out to be. It lasts for 3 globals, is used predictably, and absolutely easy to counter.

 

Contrary to your statements about it being useless in unorganized PVP and broken in organized PVP, it is my experience that is the opposite.

[kiroshei]

Because Paladins were HEALERS. They could HEAL while bubbled. Sentinels do not heal. They can only deal damage. And there are numerous counters to this ability.

 

Every single 5v5 arena team did not have a Ret Paladin on it.

 

 

 

5 seconds.

 

 

wrong. as a ret pally i didnt use my bubble to heal in arena before it was nerfed. i had a HEALER for that. i used the bubble to do mad dmg while being godmode. which is what this ability does with full resolve. once blizzard added the dmg reduction ret pally became useless in pvp with wow because they didnt have that godmode ability anymore. so people went with dk's instead.. which were the new godmode class at the time. everyone always rolls the easysauce. this is the same with any mmo.

[Kaarsa]

I dont get 1 thing here.

 

You claim that Undying Rage is broken, because when marauder use it, his pocket healer will refill his hp while marauder is immune to damage.

 

I ask - why the hell are you focusing marauder instead of healer? Probably hardest to just outright kill dps class in game? And not only because of UD, force camo for anni spec does almost the same thing from survivability standpoint - you are immune for 4 seconds, your healer can refill your hp.

 

To add insult to injury, marauder is completly unaffected by being focused - no pushback, no interrupts against this class.

 

Why anyone want to focus marauder instead of healer, one more time? Especially in ranked (ie. suposedly organized) play?

 

If you focus marauder and ignoring fact that he gets free heals, you deserve to be killed by him.

 

Undying rage is an extremally strong defensive CD, but it has its limits. I dont see a reason to change it.

 

PS. My main is assasin, my marauder is 34 (no UD yet).

[BrutalPain]

Paladin Bubble = immune to dmg, immune to any cc, if you press bubble it breaks any cc -> paladin bubble = godmode thats why they nerfed the dmg while bubble is active.

 

Marauder defensive cd cant be used while cced -> cc him at about 30% hp so he cant use it.

If he do just use one cc from 1304131 this game, use a dot on him what will finish and move to the next target.

 

How can you compare these 2 abilities they are so far from same.

[kiroshei]

I dont get 1 thing here.

 

You claim that Undying Rage is broken, because when marauder use it, his pocket healer will refill his hp while marauder is immune to damage.

 

I ask - why the hell are you focusing marauder instead of healer? Probably hardest to just outright kill dps class in game? And not only because of UD, force camo for anni spec does almost the same thing from survivability standpoint - you are immune for 4 seconds, your healer can refill your hp.

 

To add insult to injury, marauder is completly unaffected by being focused - no pushback, no interrupts against this class.

 

Why anyone want to focus marauder instead of healer, one more time? Especially in ranked (ie. suposedly organized) play?

 

If you focus marauder and ignoring fact that he gets free heals, you deserve to be killed by him.

 

Undying rage is an extremally strong defensive CD, but it has its limits. I dont see a reason to change it.

 

PS. My main is assasin, my marauder is 34 (no UD yet).

 

what if you are pushed to a different level. leaps to you. and pops it there? we can play this "if" pvp game all day. regardless its stupid that a dps class gets a full dmg output godmode ability while being healed.

Edited March 12, 2012 by kiroshei

[Sleeptastic]

wrong. as a ret pally i didnt use my bubble to heal in arena before it was nerfed. i had a HEALER for that. i used the bubble to do mad dmg while being godmode. which is what this ability does with full resolve. once blizzard added the dmg reduction ret pally became useless in pvp with wow because they didnt have that godmode ability anymore. so people went with dk's instead.. which were the new godmode class at the time. everyone always rolls the easysauce. this is the same with any mmo.

 

If this is your argument for why guarded by the force needs to be nerfed, it's a really bad one

 

what if the marauder pushes you to a different level. leaps to you. and pops it there?

 

Then you should be crying bout hacks cause maras can't push

Edited March 11, 2012 by Sleeptastic

[BiggDirty]

Paladin Bubble = immune to dmg, immune to any cc, if you press bubble it breaks any cc -> paladin bubble = godmode thats why they nerfed the dmg while bubble is active.

 

Marauder defensive cd cant be used while cced -> cc him at about 30% hp so he cant use it.

If he do just use one cc from 1304131 this game, use a dot on him what will finish and move to the next target.

 

How can you compare these 2 abilities they are so far from same.

 

Okay we get it, pally bubble is better than undying rage.

 

How does that change the fact that only 2 classes in the game have an ability that is REMOTELY similar to it?

 

It's still a 5 second immunity to damage, any way you slice it. That is something that Juggernauts, Mercenaries, Sorcerers, and Operatives do NOT have.

 

The rest of us will die if we get focused, end of story.

 

The ability to completely negate burst damage is WAY too strong in any kind of organized setting.

 

But it's cool, like I said, I have re-rolled sentinel and I will be one of people laughing while everyone cries about marauder/assassin ruining competitive PvP.

[Yescek]

i'm full battlemaster assassin. never used ilum other then for armaments. warzoned my whole way. i would post about sorcs/sages problems but its already been posted. this is one clear problem that hasnt been touched by the pvp community that i've noticed in the past few months. this will be OP in rated warzones. an entire team can focus fire a mara with a pocket healer and he will survive. hes not a tank. its not intended. just because you like to be able to roflstomp ppl while being immune doesnt make it right. sorry man. i know youre offended and youre used to it now but it has to be looked into. there has to be a fix for it.

 

the facts are this. 50% dmg reduction on this ability isn't bad at all. you are all freaking out(not all but the qqers and l2pers) because you DO THIS all the time. thats why you dont want it changed. same reason ret pally's didnt want the change. its roflstompfuntimes. if you dont admit it youre in denial.

 

I stopped replying due to belligerence. I'm offended am I? Really now? You could have simply replied to the question with Full Battlemaster or some ****.

 

I'm not in denial that the ability is overpowered because I've been repeatedly beaten with it up. If you're going to nerf my supposedly OP ability, you also need to nerf EVERY other class at the same time to keep the playing field even. And why is this? Because you CAN, and not just can but also EASILY, beat a Marauder with Undying Rage up. How you ask? Knockbacks, stuns, roots, slows, mezzs. Since it was such a large argument before, if his resolve is full? Roots and slows still work regardless of resolve. Also, you CAN run away. LoS is wonderful. You're an assassin, why don't you just black out (cloak)? What about that knockdown ability you have? Also, what about that ability you have that makes you turn luminescent and blue? What about using Mind Control and THEN blacking out (cloaking)?

 

Shall I carry on with the list of ways YOU can counter UR? Or are you ready to admit you're wrong?

 

Also pls lrn2identifysarcasm plox.

[BrutalPain]

what if the marauder pushes you to a different level. leaps to you. and pops it there? we can play this "if" pvp game all day. regardless its stupid that a dps class gets a full dmg output godmode ability while being healed.

 

Stopped reading when "marauder pushes you". Nice try btw.

[Inseh]

Ok, Shadows/Assassins can vanish from sight when they feel threatened. Is that op?

 

Play a marauder/sentinel mate, see how overpowered we are ..