kiroshei Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 How is resolve stopping you from usig force sprint and shroud? i'm sorry you lost credibility sir. playing the "if" pvp game with you is officially over. back on topic: no dps class should have better survivability over a tank. /discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Also the majority of DANGEROUS skills in pvp are FORCE/TECH attacks. Wich makes FS as problematic as UR if there is a problem with it. Let's not also forget that UR HAS an huge malus, and has to be used on very Low HP. You want to nerf UR? Fine, nerf FS too. I use force shroud defensively. I dont use it to beat down other opponents. That ability is working as intended. UR isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutsuru Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sorry sir its not wow or maraduer isn't paladin. We cant heal to %100 hp after use Undying Rage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sorry sir its not wow or maraduer isn't paladin. We cant heal to %100 hp after use Undying Rage Bubble wasn't nerfed for healing. It was nerfed for killing players while in the bubble and getting heals from your pocket healer. Ty though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I use force shroud defensively. I dont use it to beat down other opponents. That ability is working as intended. UR isn't. Yes but you CAN use it to beat down other opponents, just as you can with UR. Also you sacrifice no health in using Force Shroud and as said by previous posters you are immune to CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atreyuz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I use force shroud defensively. I dont use it to beat down other opponents. That ability is working as intended. UR isn't. that's YOUR problem. Because both abilities have exactly the same use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 i'm sorry you lost credibility sir. playing the "if" pvp game with you is officially over. back on topic: no dps class should have better survivability over a tank. /discuss Agreed, and no dps class does have more survivability than a tank. You wave around one ability, that lasts 5 seconds, and declare that that gives the class more survivability than tanking classes. I think the old idiom about not being able to see the forest for the trees fits in perfectly here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yes but you CAN use it to beat down other opponents, just as you can with UR. Also you sacrifice no health in using Force Shroud and as said by previous posters you are immune to CC. Right but using FS offensively means i won't have it to cloak. Which is just dumb. So i would never do that. FS & Cloak are used together so you can get away. Otherwise cloak would be pointless when a single dot knocks you out. There is no combining ability to use UR for. The only thing you combine UR with is other defensive abilities to make you even more OP. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonohaFlash Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Classical "i can't refute your statements, so I have to ignore you" Do us all a favor and ask a moderator to close your thread. You asked for constructive feedback, you got it and can't accept it. The only posts you have listened to are the ones with people who share the same opinions as you. There is no room for constructive feedback, just circle jerking in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derewen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone! Is this another "I can't kill him, nerf this and that" thread? How wonderful, I thought they disappered on tor forums after OP/scoun nerf, but looks like we've got next sport around here So lets stay tuned for next pages! Oh boy I can't wait! Edited March 12, 2012 by Derewen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Agreed, and no dps class does have more survivability than a tank. Wrong. 8 people beating on a tank and hes splat. kapoot. blamo! 8 people beating on UR does nothing and he gets healed..... see the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Wrong. 8 people beating on a tank and hes splat. kapoot. blamo! 8 people beating on UR does nothing and he gets healed..... see the problem? Once those 5 seconds are over, I would assume the marauder still dies. So no, I see no problem, at most, the marauder lives another 5 seconds when he has 8 people beating on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If it was intended as a last resort to finish off the enemy then make it so. 99% damage reduction for 5 sec, healing taken reduced by 90% while active. Fair IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atreyuz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Wrong. 8 people beating on a tank and hes splat. kapoot. blamo! 8 people beating on UR does nothing and he gets healed..... see the problem? 8 people beating on a mara for 5 seconds. Fixed. There is quite a difference. Also, 5 seconds in this game are 3 GCDs. Edited March 12, 2012 by atreyuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroshei Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Once those 5 seconds are over, I would assume the marauder still dies. So no, I see no problem, at most, the marauder lives another 5 seconds when he has 8 people beating on him. And in rated warzones thats going to be an issue. The best ball carrier. The best node protector. The best voidstar door watcher. Same as if you had a pally prenerf in those situations. They would be the best for it too. It has to be looked at, redesigned or tweaked. Otherwise like others have stated its going to be FOTM for rated WZ. Why would you NOT want this class and this ability on your team. It will be mandatory. Edited March 12, 2012 by kiroshei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Once those 5 seconds are over, I would assume the marauder still dies. So no, I see no problem, at most, the marauder lives another 5 seconds when he has 8 people beating on him. except maras have force camo that allows them to stealth away and live. talented force camo gives 100% damage reduction, and all the good maras have it. Edited March 12, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) And in rated warzones thats going to be an issue. The best ball carrier. The best node protector. The best voidstar door watcher. Same as if you had a pally prenerf in those situations. They would be the best for it too. It has to be looked at, redesigned or tweaked. Otherwise like others have stated its going to be FOTM for rated WZ. Why would you NOT want this class and this ability on your team. It will be mandatory. Best ball carrier in Huttball is tank Assassin hands down, force speed and shroud are just too awesome in that warzone. Marauder isn't bad but in organised play you can avoid their leap advantage pretty easily with good positioning, hell even some pugs know to avoid getting in a bad position against a Marauder/Juggernaut. Edited March 12, 2012 by Manigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 And in rated warzones thats going to be an issue. The best ball carrier. The best node protector. The best voidstar door watcher. Same as if you had a pally prenerf in those situations. They would be the best for it too. It has to be looked at, redesigned or tweaked. Otherwise like others have stated its going to be FOTM for rated WZ Best ball carrier will be a sin/shadow tank, with a rage marauder in party for predation. Best node protector or door watcher will be a class that has lots of CC, as that role isn't to simply kill a bomb planter or turret assaulter, but to live long enough for help to arrive. In rated warzones, teamwork will nullify a marauders solo capabilities because they are very susceptible to CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 except maras have force camo that allows them to stealth away and live. talented force camo gives 100% damage reduction, and all the good maras have it. Ouch! add that up and u have what 12 secs of COMPLETE damage immunity all the while if he used beserk before camo hes dots are critting??? *** *** ***? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atreyuz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) And in rated warzones thats going to be an issue. The best ball carrier. The best node protector. The best voidstar door watcher. Same as if you had a pally prenerf in those situations. They would be the best for it too. It has to be looked at, redesigned or tweaked. Otherwise like others have stated its going to be FOTM for rated WZ. Why would you NOT want this class and this ability on your team. It will be mandatory. oh, so basically this is a nerf marauders thread. Not just UR/GBTF. Edited March 12, 2012 by atreyuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 except maras have force camo that allows them to stealth away and live. talented force camo gives 100% damage reduction, and all the good maras have it. All good annihilate marauders have it. It's in one spec, and its not the only viable pvp spec. I think you'll find a huge resurgence of rage marauders for rated warzones for 100% uptime predation. Not to say that annihilate will be lacking, but as far as team utility goes, rage wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KraithFjorn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 oh, so basically this is a nerf marauders. Not just UR. No, because there aren't other aspects of the Marauder that give them such an advantage over other DPS Classes. Although technically speaking, I suppose nerfing UR does mean nerfing Marauders as well, but not in the way you're implying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No, because there aren't other aspects of the Marauder that give them such an advantage over other DPS Classes. Although technically speaking, I suppose nerfing UR does mean nerfing Marauders as well, but not in the way you're implying. ranged classes have the advantage of range over melee dps, I think this needs to be looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Best ball carrier will be a sin/shadow tank, with a rage marauder in party for predation. Best node protector or door watcher will be a class that has lots of CC, as that role isn't to simply kill a bomb planter or turret assaulter, but to live long enough for help to arrive. In rated warzones, teamwork will nullify a marauders solo capabilities because they are very susceptible to CC. They are as susceptible to cc as any other class.... I do believe tho that the mara ranked warzone spec will not be the current annihilation solo spec, but carnage. Why? Because 6 secs total of roots every 12 secs, completely out of resolve are a HUGE asset. That with the already amazing survival of maras will make them IMO the kings of ranked warzone, the only class that will be able to effectively counter an assassin ball carrier, as well as healers or anything else that likes to pillar hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarna Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Incoming big post: Marauders are better equipped to deal with focus-fire than any other class. This is absolutely true. It's either a design decision or a design oversight (completely dependant on BW's stance). Yes, focusing healers isn't ALWAYS the best course of action, but I'm gonna wager a bet and say that focusing a Marauder first is ALWAYS a bad decision. So you and I both agree on that point. This doesn't, however mean that Marauders make other classes obsolete because there are ways to deal with them that you can't do to other damage-dealing classes. Mainly the fact that you don't have to kill a Marauder to stop their damage output. The most popular Marauder spec atm is Annihilation. It is 100% weapon-based in terms of damage output and is limited to 4m range attacks at all times. Carnage is also almost completely weapon-based with the exception of the Force Scream mechanic. Marauders are one of two classes (the other being snipers) that rely primarily on white weapon-based attacks. This is their flaw. Numerous classes have abilities that are designed to combat only this type of attack and nothing else. Dodge/Evasion on Smugglers/Agents, Deflection on Shadows/Assassins, any accuracy reducing ability like Flashbang, and etc. There are numerous other abilities like these in the game. Not to mention shields being 100% effective for every one of a Marauder's attack. It's important to note that these types of abilities don't affect the damage output of a Mercenary, Powertech or Juggernaut (just using your examples and talking about damage-dealers) anywhere near as much as it would a Marauder. The mentioned classes have numerous tech or force abilities at their disposal that they use on a regular basis to deal damage which completely negates the usefulness of shields, accuracy reducing abilities, and defense increasing abilities in the game. Couple this with the fact that Marauders are melee and are required to be at 4m range at all times to deal damage. Applying a root or slowing them greatly diminishes the damage they can deal because they basically won't deal damage outside of 4m range. A Mercenary's damage output is unaffected by roots/slows obviously because they are ranged. A Pyrotech PT (most common damage-dealing spec for the class) have 30m range moves in their core damage priority abilities (Thermal Detonator, Rail Shot, basic attack, Unload or DFA otherwise) as well as a core 10m ability with no CD (Flame Burst) that can somewhat counter the fact that they are getting rooted/slowed. Juggernauts are another issue altogether and I feel that they are lacking in their damage-dealing specs. Rage spec'd Juggs deal better burst damage than Marauders but trade off too much survivability to make it not worth it IMO. The point I'm trying to make is that Marauder's are designed to combat focus fire (which other damage classes cannot do) but also that there are a myriad of things that can greatly diminish their damage dealing potential without having to kill them that you can't do to other classes. Yes, you CANNOT focus-fire a Marauder off the bat and expect to kill him like you can do to other classes but you can effectively cripple his damage and usefulness and focus down a different target. This is actually a safe thing to do vs a Marauder but a terrible thing to do vs any of the other classes you mentioned. Griping about not being able to just kill Marauders is pointless because that's just the game design. It's like being pissed off about healers being first priority targets or burst damage classes dealing burst damage. Not to mention that different classes are different. Arsenal Mercs bring armor debuffs into the team. Juggs and PT's bring in taunts. And the different CC's other classes bring in. You can't make a team of 2 healers and 6 Marauders and expect to win vs a more well-rounded team. It is my opinion that we should actually wait till rated's come out and THEN make changes if necessary. At this point though, I don't think Marauders need to be tweaked at all. I have a really good feeling, however, that class balance is pretty decent in a team-based competitive environment. I think DPS-spec'd Juggernauts are under-powered. Snipers may also potentially be in a bad spot, but I'm unsure because of low representation on my server. Levelling one atm. Atleast you're trying to discuss the class instead of one random ability like the OP is. The OP is complaining about a 5s damage immunity move that is predictable in its usage while forgetting that his own class has the same type of ability (Force Shroud) that in essence makes you immune to 6/8 classes in the game for 5s (talented, everyone is rolling Darkness/Kinetic anyways) but is more freely usable (cost) and removes any hostile effects to boot. I'm not complaining about that move because I'm not so narrow-minded like he is, but damn, the quality of the discussions in the forums are just terrible because you have people like him posting. I love not being responded to. Look at who I was quoting before you reply to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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