Mara/Pally Bubble needs to be looked at(Undying Rage)

[Grubfist]

Seriously though lol. You know when the majority of replies is this insulting and negative that you have a problem on your hands. Not one reply has offered any constructive feedback as to how to make this a defensive ability and not currently the offensive ability its being used as.

 

I would argue that since it is a pure-dps-only melee class that is using it, it is a tool to survive being in the dangerous front-lines better, and SHOULD be used to fight just a little bit longer, and not to run away.

 

I disagree that it should not be able to be used to continue fighting on the frontlines for its duration, because melee is at an inherent disadvantage for needing to worry about range.

 

I'm sorry if you find this post negative or insulting, but I legitimately disagree with you, and I get ripped apart by marauders all the time.

[Ikarus]

It already has a penalty, and smart players will get away from the marauder or CC him for 5 seconds and then kill him.

 

Not hard to counter

[kiroshei]

You know, it worries me where the OP is coming from in his argument. He did mention an assassin not doing much damage to the mara and that kind of worries me that he keeps getting beat by mara's/sents in a 1v1 situation due to the brief "immunities".

 

It worries me because that would be the wrong stance on the topic.

 

 

I want to know if this ability can be exploited in premades. Are people doing it? Are they running around rampant and not being killed? What's the deal in the high level play?

 

Sorry you feel that way. The 1v1 statement was to rebuttal against the me being taunted claim.

[kiroshei]

It already has a penalty, and smart players will get away from the marauder or CC him for 5 seconds and then kill him.

 

Not hard to counter

 

 

Yes. Its not hard when his resolve bar is empty. His leap isn't off cooldown. Ty for your input.

[Jurugar]

Response inc. Edited March 11, 2012 by Jurugar

[Draeb]

Sorry you feel that way. The 1v1 statement was to rebuttal against the me being taunted claim.

 

 

 

Just to do a reboot on the topic, what scenarios are you referring to where this ability needs more looking into?

 

 

Are you talking lvl 50 bracket? Premades? Certain WZs? 3v1s/4v1s and the mara/sent is coming out on top? I just want to get a better understanding on this class since it's the only one I've yet to put time into and I almost always get destroyed by them.

[Grubfist]

Just to do a reboot on the topic, what scenarios are you referring to where this ability needs more looking into?

 

 

Are you talking lvl 50 bracket? Premades? Certain WZs? 3v1s/4v1s and the mara/sent is coming out on top? I just want to get a better understanding on this class since it's the only one I've yet to put time into and I almost always get destroyed by them.

 

Honestly, he's just exaggerating. I fight marauders in PvP all the time. In a typical 1v1, I can't beat them. With cooldowns, it's 50/50. The 1v1 situations are so few and far between that it doesn't concern me much.

 

He claims that no-one is offering anything constructive, yet when I disagreed with him calmly and rationally, he doesn't acknowledge or respond to it (although he does to many posts around it.)

 

It's simply one of those things that happens in the real heat of battle, where it's easy to get angry. "Oh, yes, I got him to like 5%! *** HE'S NOT DYING, GODAMNIT, NO, I HAD THAT!!"

 

You know the deal.

 

And he'll probably quote this one, since it can help him feed the flame war he's after. He's only responding to flaming.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Grubfist

[Apocalypse-]

I would just like to say, why would you not time your health pack with your GBTF? Isn't that Sent/Mara 101?

 

75 second cooldown vs 3 minute/90 second cooldown? Also, only using one when both is overkill leaves one off cooldown, although it may leave a situation where you need both and only have one.

 

 

Yes. Its not hard when his resolve bar is empty. His leap isn't off cooldown. Ty for your input.

Or when you have a tank, or when you've got either of the two ACs with a blind, or when you have any of the ~4 classes that have a root, or any of the 8 ACs that have a slow, or... Wait, I'll do the easier list.

 

GBTF/UR is hard to counter if and only if your team is in chaos or you're trying to 1v1 the best 1v1 class in the game. Both situations are something that shouldn't happen to any worthwhile ranked team.

 

 

I have. Rolled one in beta test. Loved the time played. Went assassin on launch. Rolled another mara as my alt to see the rest of the story. Ty though

Play the class to 50... You'd know that your assumption that they need a nerf is correct, but you'd see how your suggestion for a nerf is completely out of left field. I've said a few times on the Sentinel/Mara boards where nerfs need to be made, but nerfing GBTF and UR do little to nerf the power of the class and just make them "Kill on sight, no questions asked" rather than requiring a thought process behind when you should be killing them.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[SmokingGoose]

There is a reason why blizzard nerfed the paladin bubble. Same reason Mara bubble needs to be fixed. You should not be able to do full dmg while being immune to pretty well everything. Make it so when a Mara uses this bubble its defensively and not offensively. Cut all damage and healing while bubble is up by 50%. I think its ok that you should be able to survive while its up but being able to kill multiple ppl while its up is just wrong and shouldnt be happening.

 

 

 

 

EDIT ****Good Constructive Feedback So Far*****

 

Its not the same as a pally bubble smart man.

It does not make you immune and thus you can be cc'd.

CC the marauder and kill him once Undying rage ends..

 

Pally bubble was op because you couldnt damage, interrupt or cc them while they damaged you.

 

This has now become a L2P thread:o

Edited March 11, 2012 by SmokingGoose

[kiroshei]

Honestly, he's just exaggerating. I fight marauders in PvP all the time. In a typical 1v1, I can't beat them. With cooldowns, it's 50/50. The 1v1 situations are so few and far between that it doesn't concern me much.

 

He claims that no-one is offering anything constructive, yet when I disagreed with him calmly and rationally, he doesn't acknowledge or respond to it (although he does to many posts around it.)

 

It's simply one of those things that happens in the real heat of battle, where it's easy to get angry. "Oh, yes, I got him to like 5%! *** HE'S NOT DYING, GODAMNIT, NO, I HAD THAT!!"

 

You know the deal.

 

Not true sir. I fixed the title for you and added some quotes to the main post thanks to your input. The comparison to the lolbubble from wow is in fact a legitimate comparison. When blizzard fixed the bubble the same negative feedback thats here was given there. I knew this would happen upon making the post. No surprises here. BTW I was a ret pally in arena using that bubble offensively before they fixed it. Its not like I dont see why this one needs to be fixed as well.

[SmokingGoose]

Not true sir. I fixed the title for you and added some quotes to the main post thanks to your input. The comparison to the lolbubble from wow is in fact a legitimate comparison. When blizzard fixed the bubble the same negative feedback thats here was given there. I knew this would happen upon making the post. No surprises here. BTW I was a ret pally in arena using that bubble offensively before they fixed it. Its not like I dont see why this one needs to be fixed as well.

 

See above

[Grubfist]

Not true sir. I fixed the title for you and added some quotes to the main post thanks to your input. The comparison to the lolbubble from wow is in fact a legitimate comparison. When blizzard fixed the bubble the same negative feedback thats here was given there. I knew this would happen upon making the post. No surprises here. BTW I was a ret pally in arena using that bubble offensively before they fixed it. Its not like I dont see why this one needs to be fixed as well.

 

I agree that it is a legitimate comparison in many ways (obviously not exactly the same, but that's irrelevant). I just feel like calling it "pally bubble ability thing" is not going to get you good responses. As I stated before, comparisons should reinforce a point that has already been made.

 

Also, totally called it on my edit for this post. You posted at the same time as I finished editing it.

 

I do appreciate the highlighting of constructive feedback in your main post, but you're ignoring fair arguments that don't support your opinion and highlighting ones that do.

 

I'd advise you show all serious suggestions if you're going to show suggestions. For example, "**** nerf my pulse cannon too, then!" was a sarcastic post I made, but my opinion on how it should be used is just as valid as your opinion on it.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Grubfist

[kiroshei]

See above

 

 

Read post smart man. Its the fact it has been used offensively and not defensively. Thats why its broken. Ty though.

[Jurugar]

Why are people acting like this is the only defensive CD marauders have?

 

-Undying rage - 75 second CD with 2piece pvp (can be further reduced down to 45s in the rage tree) - 99% dmg reduction for 5s

 

-Cloak of pain - 60 sec CD - 20% dmg reduction plus reflected damage for upwards of 30s

 

-Obfuscate - 45 sec CD with talents - target 90% reduced accuracy for 6s

 

-Force Camouflage - 45 sec CD - immunity to damage while invisible with talents for 4s

 

-Saber Ward - 180 sec CD - 50% physical defense and 25% force dmg reduction for 12s

 

Oh, and stop trying to make the 50% health cost a big deal; you're retarded if you use it before you're at your last bit of health anyway. At the very least undying rage should make you immune to heals as well for some risk-reward, like the shadow's vanish does untalented. Nothing more frustrating than seeing the target in the kill range jump back up in health without you being able to stop them.

[SmokingGoose]

I agree that it is a legitimate comparison in many ways (obviously not exactly the same, but that's irrelevant). I just feel like calling it "pally bubble ability thing" is not going to get you good responses. As I stated before, comparisons should reinforce a point that has already been made.

 

Also, totally called it on my edit for this post. You posted at the same time as I finished editing it.

 

An ability that makes you immune can never be compared to an ability that mitigates damage.

Sorry but its true.

 

If you are immune you can use it to become immune to cc, interrupts etc.

 

2nd thing to the op is undying rage is never used offensively.

It removes half your health.

Marauders use it when they are almost dying so it is always used defensively.

 

Learn the difference between using an ability defensively or offensively.

 

Thats like saying that if i use saber ward while doing damage to someone then im using it offensively .

If someone uses undying rage because they are about to die and proceed to kill the person they are fighting then they used that ability to avoid dying and in the process ended up killing the person they were fighting.

 

But i know im just wasting my time because a person who says bubble=undying rage can never be reasoned with.

 

Bubble- makes you immune to all harmfull effects and doesnt remove health

 

Undying Rage- lowers damage you receive and removes 50% HP

 

Same right?

Edited March 11, 2012 by SmokingGoose

[kiroshei]

I agree that it is a legitimate comparison in many ways (obviously not exactly the same, but that's irrelevant). I just feel like calling it "pally bubble ability thing" is not going to get you good responses. As I stated before, comparisons should reinforce a point that has already been made.

 

Also, totally called it on my edit for this post. You posted at the same time as I finished editing it.

 

No matter how nicely you post this issue you will never get good responses. Good responses to redesigning abilities are few and far between on this forum. Its expected. I threw up the ones that seemed to be good constructive responses. You can say l2p, youre dumb, youre stupid, blah blah. It wont bother me at all. Its bound to happen with the mentality of this community. They just want to keep what they are used to.

[Grubfist]

No matter how nicely you post this issue you will never get good responses. Good responses to redesigning abilities are few and far between on this forum. Its expected. I threw up the ones that seemed to be good constructive responses. You can say l2p, youre dumb, youre stupid, blah blah. It wont bother me at all. Its bound to happen with the mentality of this community. They just want to keep what they are used to.

 

Of course it's bound to happen, but there's no sense provoking the trolls with poor spelling, supposed ignorance of how the ability works, etc.

 

If you want a good response, make a good original post. I appreciate the updates you've done to yours. But remember that your goal is for Bioware to see that post, so type it in a more professional way than you started out.

 

Glad you calmed down a bit. I'd still argue that it's not overpowered, and I'd appreciate if you put my description of what it is and should be in your constructive post list, but it's your thread.

[kiroshei]

An ability that makes you immune can never be compared to an ability that mitigates damage.

Sorry but its true.

See my post above for a brief explanation

 

 

You're one of those folks that read the first page and jump to the last page arent you. When all my abilities show up as 1's and 2's with the odd 4 in dmg against this...its immunity. Sugar coating it with 1's and 2's doesnt make it any less than immunity. I do not agree with you.

 

Of course it's bound to happen, but there's no sense provoking the trolls with poor spelling, supposed ignorance of how the ability works, etc.

 

If you want a good response, make a good original post. I appreciate the updates you've done to yours. But remember that your goal is for Bioware to see that post, so type it in a more professional way than you started out.

 

Glad you calmed down a bit. I'd still argue that it's not overpowered, and I'd appreciate if you put my description of what it is and should be in your constructive post list, but it's your thread.

 

I was never not calm. lol. Really.

Edited March 11, 2012 by kiroshei

[Apocalypse-]

You're one of those folks that read the first page and jump to the last page arent you. When all my abilities show up as 1's and 2's with the odd 4 in dmg against this...its immunity. Sugar coating it with 1's and 2's doesnt make it any less than immunity. I do not agree with you.

Paladin bubble = Immunity. GBTF/UR = Damage Immunity. MASSIVE difference.

[SmokingGoose]

You're one of those folks that read the first page and jump to the last page arent you. When all my abilities show up as 1's and 2's with the odd 4 in dmg against this...its immunity. Sugar coating it with 1's and 2's doesnt make it any less than immunity. I do not agree with you.

 

 

 

I was never not calm. lol. Really.

 

Again. read the full post and answer the full post not just a part of it.

 

Immune makes you immune to cc.

If an attack that does 1 damage but still cc's me for 8 seconds i am going to get cc'd for 8 seconds even if i use Undying Rage.

If i am immune the attack will do 0 damage and i will not get cc'd for 8 seconds.

 

Bubble- makes you immune to all harmfull effects and doesn't remove health

 

Undying Rage- lowers damage you receive and removes 50% HP

 

Are you saying there is no difference?

Edited March 11, 2012 by SmokingGoose

[Yescek]

No matter how nicely you post this issue you will never get good responses. Good responses to redesigning abilities are few and far between on this forum. Its expected. I threw up the ones that seemed to be good constructive responses. You can say l2p, youre dumb, youre stupid, blah blah. It wont bother me at all. Its bound to happen with the mentality of this community. They just want to keep what they are used to.

 

This does not change the fact that the ability is fine the way it is. To be honest, if you actually DID use my idea, then you'd simply have people pissed off that they're wasting their KBs and big DPS dumps on damage-immune Marauders. Neither way is OP, it'll just shift what people cry about. At the moment, -50% HP is a fair trade for an omgwtfbbqoshyte button simply because it IS possible to wait out the duration at which point you simply smash the Marauder's face in.

 

Ultimately, regardless of your point's validity, the ability IS balanced if you know how to fight a Marauder.

 

Hell, if you want, I'll even give you the secret to killing Marauders. Though I can't say whether it will help YOU or not.

[Draeb]

Honestly, he's just exaggerating. I fight marauders in PvP all the time. In a typical 1v1, I can't beat them. With cooldowns, it's 50/50. The 1v1 situations are so few and far between that it doesn't concern me much.

 

He claims that no-one is offering anything constructive, yet when I disagreed with him calmly and rationally, he doesn't acknowledge or respond to it (although he does to many posts around it.)

 

It's simply one of those things that happens in the real heat of battle, where it's easy to get angry. "Oh, yes, I got him to like 5%! *** HE'S NOT DYING, GODAMNIT, NO, I HAD THAT!!"

 

You know the deal.

 

And he'll probably quote this one, since it can help him feed the flame war he's after. He's only responding to flaming.

 

 

 

I think this is a vlid concern. Like I've said several times in this thread anything that allows a player immunities needs looking to. Yes, I understand that it's not complete immunity (99% damage reduction) but that 1% is not enough to make me think otherwise.

 

 

 

And to be honest grubfist, you did lump in undying rage with pulse canon to make a point. Not really a winning argument there.

[kiroshei]

Again. read the full post and answer the full post not just a part of it.

 

Immune makes you immune to cc.

If an attack that does 1 damage but still cc's me for 8 seconds i am going to get cc'd for 8 seconds even if i use Undying Rage.

If i am immune the attack will do 0 damage and i will not get cc'd for 8 seconds.

 

Are you saying there is no difference?

 

 

Are you saying you don't use the ability when you have full resolve & 10% hp? Throw in a pocket healer and your 50% hp loss when youre at 200hp is a joke. Its OP.

[SmokingGoose]

Are you saying you don't use the ability when you have full resolve & 10% hp? Throw in a pocket healer and your 50% hp loss when youre at 200hp is a joke. Its OP.

 

Oh so now the argument changes to pocket healers and a full resolve bar?

 

Way to change the conversation arguments when things aren't looking good your way

[Grubfist]

Again. read the full post and answer the full post not just a part of it.

 

Immune makes you immune to cc.

If an attack that does 1 damage but still cc's me for 8 seconds i am going to get cc'd for 8 seconds even if i use Undying Rage.

If i am immune the attack will do 0 damage and i will not get cc'd for 8 seconds.

 

Bubble- makes you immune to all harmfull effects and doesn't remove health

 

Undying Rage- lowers damage you receive and removes 50% HP

 

Are you saying there is no difference?

 

He's not saying "they are the same thing", he's saying they are a close enough thing to compare. I agree with that much.