While this is true, if you have multiple contacts you're likely to give them a better shot and end up dead. I've had that happen a few times, but then again I've also invested heavily in speed so I tend to favor the 180 turn more. Kinda wish it was the one from the default scout though.

I was never on any of the servers in your sig, but I flew Imp for about 2 years on Starsider.

If we're broken and OP what does that make Pyro PT's?

This is why I'm EXTREMELY hesitant to call hacks. For example, did you know that BH Tanks have a movement buff very much like predation?

Optimize for 100% Melee accuracy. Annihilation, and to a lesser extent Rage, do not rely NEARLY as heavily on melee accuracy as Carnage does. Annihilation flat doesn't NEED higher than 100%, and for Rage I just wouldn't recommend it. The reason is because of how your significant damage is done. With Rage, it's the force based derpsmash, and with Annihilation it's the bleeds. Neither of which use Melee accuracy at all. The cleave on Vicious Strike Spam in Rage is also not an offhand strike, so no worries there.

Thats Ataru dude. The offhand hit doesn't have it's own animation, it's just a second number that flies off. It shows most prominently in Parses. You're sitting there thinking "Geeze I miss/get defended/dodged alot". That's what all the misses/parries/dodges are. That's something else, it's not JUST the chance to miss, but to get parried or dodged as well.

It's not AS relevant, but still good info

^ That. I have all 67 datacrons, two of the companion buffs, and most of my gear is augged, and I sit right around 18.5k

Don't spread confusing **** like this dude, just tell people they're the same. Cause they are.

How is it wrong eh? I hope you realize that nearly a full third of our potential DPS is wrapped up in those hundreds of offhand hits that miss all the time. Hit 105% ACC and that'll never happen again. Give it a try why don't you, Berserk Massacre-Spam WITHOUT Bloodthirst with Acc at 105% and see if that Assassin/Shadow doesn't piss himself and run.

Here, this is pretty much the de facto spec for all carnage marauder's who don't suck http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bcZGrMRRrrdGzZM.2

Thank god, someone else who knows. And people wonder WHY I say Carnage Maras need at least 105% melee acc.

With the exception of Snipers, thats true at the moment. Also any Marauder that loses to a powertech is just bad. We have obsfucate for a reason.

Stagger's where we differ. Stick em in Narrowed Hatred. Makes it easy to hit Carnage's 105% Acc requirement.

For Carnage though, you want to be hitting 105% minimum. The reason for it is because you'd be absolutely SHOCKED at how much DPS we lose in offhand strikes. Not to mention that it's always frustrating to see someone defend half the ataru strikes when you Berserk-Massacre spam.

Huh. I know that Predation used to stack while your version never did, but they DID fix that so that it no longer stacks. I'll look into it.

Why? You DO know that Massacre auto-procs both ataru AND blood frenzy right? Meaning that there's no need to do what you're suggesting. That Battering Assault is just gonna make DAMN sure that Blood Frenzy isn't going to be up when you throw the scream.

It DOES work dude, the issue is that it's so sporadic that there really isn't a way to set up to maximize it. Therefore, since it usually ends up buffing something else anyways, we just ignore it. It procs so randomly that it really doesn't make much difference if it does work or not though I do know that it does work. I'll post screenshots and logs later if I can be arsed.

Neither do I, which is why when I talk about it I usually note it like so: (Rage Builders) > Massacre > (Wait for the GCD) > Gore + Ravage > Force Scream And the cool part is, these days at least, that whole rotation fits perfectly within a Battering Assault. If you have full Enraged Slash, you end up with enough Rage to tack on a Crippling Slash at the end so you can run out, Charge back, build more rage, and if you have Frenzy up instantly launch into the Massacre-nado combo.

Obviously I don't yet have my PT at 50 or I'd have a different perspective, but just the same as a Sniper can hang back partially LoS'd in Cover and explode people, can't a PT do it too? What I was saying with the Range comment is that you can be SNEAKY about blowing someone up, and a PT doesn't really need to set up to do it (which I took straight from your post there).

I don't think you'd believe it, but this **** was 100% possible PRE-1.2 and it wasn't necessarily harder.

Carnage lacks survivability in PvP whereas Annihilation can not only survive but can, when paired with another Annihilation Marauder, take stress off of a healer's job. Carnage has an advantage, however, because the burst is *********** astronomical compared to Annihilation. It also brings the utility of having two resolve-ignoring roots available AND an 80% movement speed that is applied to the entire ops group. Camo under annihilation may give you an extra 20% speed and last a couple seconds longer, but under Carnage it will break you out of snares and roots. Annihilation really doesn't have a rotation, Carnage does. It has two, and those can be customized to do maximum damage to whoever you're fighting. 9 Rage > Massacre > (Wait for GCD to finish) > Gore + Ravage > Force Scream works best against heavy armor targets and is equal to the other one against medium armor targets. This is because Gore makes a mockery of Heavy armor classes' primary defense: Their Armor. Your other rotation involves using Berserk with at LEAST 7 rage to spam Massacre 6 times in 6 seconds. You can have gore up for half of it. This works best against light armor targets and is equal to the other against medium targets. Most light amor targets don't rely nearly as much on armor so 100% pen isn't doing you nearly as much good though it still hits hard. *Note: Assassins and Shadows fall outside these rules, because of the strange way their defense works being Light armor AND a Tank. They counter Carnage pretty hard.

Idk about that, I felt like Massacre 100% turned the spec around when I was leveling.

And you know WHY they don't have our Defenses? It's because they can do that burst FROM RANGE. As a Marauder, I HAVE to get into your face to do my burst, thus the cooldowns. A PT Pyro can kite and LoS and if they're not doing it they're bad. Flat out, that's all there is to it.

This is correct. It's also why the Ataru Procs benefit, they're weapon damage. That's the quintessential issue with Carnage, pretty much ALL the damage is Weapon/Kinetic. This is why the Massacre + Gore + Ravage + Force Scream combo will slice through Bounty Hunters and Troopers like butter, but Berserk'ed Massacre spam is pretty much ineffective against them. The reverse is true for Sages and Sorcerers.