Why people who are high rated should get better gear: Everyone will be happy!

[dufox]

Hey, I've been seeing a lot of posts lately about skilled players wanting better gear due to their superiority, and I see a lot of people say "No, then you will have advantage over me, and gear>Skill in this game". Others will say "I am not that good, so why give better players then me even better gear then I have?"

 

Answer to guy no. 1: If you are actually hindered killing the guy because he has better gear than you, but you claim you would beat him if everyone had the same gear, why don't you just grind the high rated gear yourself?

 

Answer to guy no. 2: If you suck and are getting owned already as it is, then what difference does it make to you anyway?

 

Everyone is happy, give us good players gear to work for, rather than just to grind endless hours for. And don't give it to people who aren't good enough. Hell, even, make like Vanilla times, give only a RARE number of the best ones a supre rank with "Rank 14 PvP gear".

 

Any takers?

 

i gotta say that is some interesting logic you have there lol.

 

i wont lie finding someone with 0 expertise is fun lol, partly cause its always nice to destroy some random person and partly cause iv been in their shoes. its basically a right of passage.

having the advantage over someone from the get go is always nice. makes you feel all nice and special.

 

BUT nothing compares to a true "gg"

if everyone has the same gear (basically), i can only imagine the all out battles. the teamwork, the strategies, its like everyone and every team is a potential rival. and EVERYONE loves a rival .

the weakest link is no longer the worst geared, it will be a human flaw like being new, not communicating or not knowing what your enemy can do. something you can truly work on instead of "grind"

 

hell just thinking about it gets me pumped.

 

should we get something for being the best? sure but why gear? i would much rather something like a "wardrobe" that is downright sexy and truly unique.

 

just tossing this out there, i have done the grind. sucks knowing newer people get it 20x easier but its 100% worth it.

[RichardNoggin]

Tell you the truth if I cant bring my gear into a WZ I probably wont do them very often and stick more to open world PvP where I could use my gear. I want to feel like my character is growing and getting better as time goes on. The reason I play these types of games is because through levels, crew skills, and gear progression your character grows and gets better over time.

 

If you dont want gear progression in PvP then play a different game because that isnt how these types of games work. If you want to level the playing field and be on par with everyone else then put in the time and effort to get the gear to be able to do that becasue thats how these games go.

[AKfourtyseven]

 

just tossing this out there, i have done the grind. sucks knowing newer people get it 20x easier but its 100% worth it.

 

Two things really.

 

1: Yes giving everyone equal gear does provide the chance for more even PvP, which is good. However i honestly doubt that anyone who complains about the gear discrepancy at this present time would be helped greatly by these changes anyway, since most understand full Cent gear removes the likelihood you will be flattened without chance for rebuttal.

 

2: While the grind did suck at times, did you not find that the grind actually made you a better player? Having that initial disadvantage? It certainly did for me, there were certain things i was forced to learn and techniques i had to adapt simply for survival. Now i no longer need them just to live, they give me an actual edge when applied. Every adversity provides and opportunity.

 

Overall i find these changes very interesting because initially with this game, PvP was set out as alternative progression along the same lines as PvE, now it is abundantly clear that is no longer the case. Personally i think the separation of PvE and PvP along the lines this game has taken with special PvP stats is rather stupid and artificial. Gear should be gear and the stats it holds should determine what sphere it is most useful for. If you are going to include ranks, they must be meaningful, otherwise just remove the entire concept of grind and let people do as they please.

 

It is what it is however.

Edited March 10, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Jesmcalli]

OP sounds like one of those people that hit 50 early on and pubstomped lowbies with his premade buddies. That doesn't make you good. As long as gear disparity is a factor, as it was right after launch, then I can't say that higher rated people "deserve" better gear. Give them titles, or cosmetic items that they can shoot for, but who has the better gear shouldn't be an issue.

[Jherad]

Obvious troll is obvious, but:

 

Give everyone the same stats for ranked WZs, regardless of gear, and we'd get to see who is actually 'good'.

 

Rather than who just ground out BM in their underpants, then claims to 'turn around' matches by their very presence (because they're wearing full BM).

[Seriasx]

Unfortunately OP most player of this game are either casual or PvE players , from these just a very small % will get anywhere when the pvp gear is given based on skill AND they know that.

 

They know they suck , only point i give to them ,does prove they have a brain.

 

Thus the reason the masses cried till a gear that requires NO TIME and NO SKILL to get came.

 

I dont think it is gonna change.

 

PvE players are the ones clamoring for superior gear over others, pvpers want their opponents to know they were outplayed, not out geared.

[iceperson]

The first average player is MORE THAN LIKELY, going to be better.

 

there's a huge gap between terrible, slightly better than terrible, and good. i don't know how many scrub BMs I've seen while playing. if playtime == good then why are there so many terrible battlemasters in this game? (i'm talking pre 1.1.5 too)

Edited March 10, 2012 by iceperson

[Scudmungus]

I love back pedaling.

 

Mash S to trolololol PRO GAMERZ

[Dego_Locc]

there's a huge gap between terrible, slightly better than terrible, and good. i don't know how many scrub BMs I've seen while playing. if playtime == good then why are there so many terrible battlemasters in this game? (i'm talking pre 1.1.5 too)

 

Must be your server.

[JediDuckling]

Hey, I've been seeing a lot of posts lately about skilled players wanting better gear due to their superiority, and I see a lot of people say "No, then you will have advantage over me, and gear>Skill in this game". Others will say "I am not that good, so why give better players then me even better gear then I have?"

 

Answer to guy no. 1: If you are actually hindered killing the guy because he has better gear than you, but you claim you would beat him if everyone had the same gear, why don't you just grind the high rated gear youself?

 

Answer to guy no. 2: If you suck and are getting owned already as it is, then what difference does it make to you anyway?

 

Everyone is happy, give us good players gear to work for, rather than just to grind endless hours for. And don't give it to people who aren't good enough. Hell, even, make like Vanilla times, give only a RARE number of the best ones a supre rank with "Rank 14 PvP gear".

 

Any takers?

 

 

 

you need to learn more about the game to comment

 

there is already a huge and i mean huge imbalance because of gear and adding even better gear above BM would make the pvp even worse.

 

fresh 50's and cent geared players are already struggling badly against champion/bm geared players what you think its gonna be like when they add a gear upgrade from BM and rakta the new 50's wont even be able to pvp anymore.

[Seriasx]

If you need a gear crutch then I suggest looking at maybe WoW or something else to spend your countless hours of free time on, this game is going to be competitive through skill and not through items you opened in a bag by playing more often.

 

Good luck wherever you go, once you get bored from gear based pvp and realize how unrewarding it is then come back to swtor where playing ability comes before gear

[carbocat]

This is coming from someone who's decent at PvP, but by no means the best. If you feel you need gear to outperform, in pvp, you're doing something wrong.

 

In PvE, it's different. In PvP gear should not be a point, I'd rather they just give everyone a uniform set and let them fight evenly and let those with a higher rating have a better looking set. Stats shouldn't matter, if you're good you don't need a stat advantage.

 

its not about outperform somebody. Good pvpers need some kinda "rated gear " to work for, what do you think will happen when good copetive pvpers can get their gear free like everyone else? yes there is nothing to work for aka they will quit.

So then you all whiners and scrubs with no skills can have the game for your self

[ilovethepink]

its not about outperform somebody. Good pvpers need some kinda "rated gear " to work for

 

Then make it look different, and better. There's no reason at all why a better player needs higher stats than those who are worse. I'm not amazing, but I'm decent-to-good, I don't want to have better gear to outperform someone, because then they can't fall back and say "But it's because you have better gear".

[Crumpilumpigus]

My understanding is that once cross-server PvP is in, Bioware was going to try to use the queue'ing mechanism to form teams of players with similar gear. If players with battlemaster are being teamed up with and playing against other players with battlemaster, what is the problem with gear progression in PvP? If it works, people will be playing with others with similar gear won't they?

[vimm]

It's pretty startling how blind people can be.

[Tilure]

gear grinding is all a tool that mmos use to keep people paying for a subscription.

 

Its a tiered gateway model. In pve its irrelevant on the player side because there isn't a competitive advantage for having played longer. You need to have completed the previous tier of content sufficient number of times to be properly geared for the next tier. This ensures that players must play for a certain amount of time prior to experiencing the next tier.

 

This is a good model for pve because it doesn't matter where you are in your progression or when you started as long as there sufficient number of other players at a similar place in their progression.

 

Consequently, stats continue to grow, and then when players with the top tier of pve content engage in pvp their stats were so far ahead of those who hadn't completed the content they had a significant advantage.

 

The result, was a band-aid fix that has turned into a permanent and accepted solution. Access to gear through a pvp grind.

 

This was a poorly thoughtout solution.

 

Its actually a bit funny to me that its "gear" people are after. The carrot really does seem to drive a lot of players. As opposed to enjoying the new and expected to be harder content. In a game like swtor, with the great effort bw has made at story telling I would honestly hope they get completely away from the gear grind in both pve and pvp, and that it become about creating dynamic story telling events.

 

On the pvp side of things, gear should cap and you should be done. All the gear should ALWAYS have had the modifications slots and gear should all be about asthetics and choosing to stack the right stats for your build, it should never be about a competitive advantage, since that will completely ruin the possibility of an esport like pvp experience.

[PalawaJoko]

We all know why SWTOR's PvP need a gear progression. Warzones are just quickly made minigames that requires a carrot to keep pleople in em. Edited March 11, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[Seriasx]

its not about outperform somebody. Good pvpers need some kinda "rated gear " to work for, what do you think will happen when good copetive pvpers can get their gear free like everyone else? yes there is nothing to work for aka they will quit.

So then you all whiners and scrubs with no skills can have the game for your self

 

Um no, good pvpers want everyone wearing the same gear so when they beat people its because of their playing ability and not because of an item they got in a bag and put on their toon.

[Scudmungus]

gear grinding is all a tool that mmos use to keep people paying for a subscription.

 

Its a tiered gateway model. In pve its irrelevant on the player side because there isn't a competitive advantage for having played longer. You need to have completed the previous tier of content sufficient number of times to be properly geared for the next tier. This ensures that players must play for a certain amount of time prior to experiencing the next tier.

 

This is a good model for pve because it doesn't matter where you are in your progression or when you started as long as there sufficient number of other players at a similar place in their progression.

 

Consequently, stats continue to grow, and then when players with the top tier of pve content engage in pvp their stats were so far ahead of those who hadn't completed the content they had a significant advantage.

 

The result, was a band-aid fix that has turned into a permanent and accepted solution. Access to gear through a pvp grind.

 

This was a poorly thoughtout solution.

 

Its actually a bit funny to me that its "gear" people are after. The carrot really does seem to drive a lot of players. As opposed to enjoying the new and expected to be harder content. In a game like swtor, with the great effort bw has made at story telling I would honestly hope they get completely away from the gear grind in both pve and pvp, and that it become about creating dynamic story telling events.

 

On the pvp side of things, gear should cap and you should be done. All the gear should ALWAYS have had the modifications slots and gear should all be about asthetics and choosing to stack the right stats for your build, it should never be about a competitive advantage, since that will completely ruin the possibility of an esport like pvp experience.

 

+1

 

It's time to stop supporting lazy methods of extending game longevity,

And finally demand some quality, innovative game design.

There will be fun,

Oh yes,

There will be fun.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Scudmungus

[Seriasx]

We all know why SWTOR's PvP need a gear progression. Warzones are just quickly made minigames that requires a carrot to keep pleople in em.

 

I dont need a carrot to enjoy pvp, I'd love some good open world pvp game but sadly their isnt one right now so we have to settle for instanced pvp and if I have to settle for instanced pvp then making it skill based is the best possible scenario for any good, bad or new pvper.

 

The ONLY people who want superior gear for time spent online in a video game are people who can barely handle peck at 1 through 4 without any clue as to what they do outside of the listed dmg amounts, they also have little understanding of whats happening around them in pvp and they also have little to no clue about what other classes are capable of.

 

Asking for gear advantages to me is pretty much telling us that you cant pvp even though you have near infinite time to do so and the only way you can win in pvp is by out gearing your opponents.

 

If you need gear as a crutch for your inability to pvp then you were not going to stay anyways.

[Manigma]

If I wanted to compete in the sense your saying I wouldn't be playing an MMO, I would be playing chess, counter strike, street fighter 4, starcraft 2. Those games are way better than SWTOR in gameplay PvP, but I play for progression and achievement. There is no achievement in playing an unbalanced game forever with no goal.

 

I don't need better gear to outperform, I want it because I deserve it.

Disagree, also what if you don't enjoy those games, or have played them to death (I played tons of CS back in the day). Those games all require different skills I would say CS is less button intensive and much more about awareness than this game, SC2 is the most intense in the number of things you have to think about and actions to perform to be good. Chess is almost totally based on strategy and wits, Street Fighter 4 a lot of it is knowledge and timing more than anything.

 

So all those games are different and require different skills and knowledge I wouldn't take away too much from this game, which requires teamwork (like CS) but also good class combinations and awareness as well as using your abilities and terrain to your advantage.

[fungihoujo]

Hey, I've been seeing a lot of posts lately about skilled players wanting better gear due to their superiority, and I see a lot of people say "No, then you will have advantage over me, and gear>Skill in this game". Others will say "I am not that good, so why give better players then me even better gear then I have?"

 

Answer to guy no. 1: If you are actually hindered killing the guy because he has better gear than you, but you claim you would beat him if everyone had the same gear, why don't you just grind the high rated gear youself?

 

Answer to guy no. 2: If you suck and are getting owned already as it is, then what difference does it make to you anyway?

 

Everyone is happy, give us good players gear to work for, rather than just to grind endless hours for. And don't give it to people who aren't good enough. Hell, even, make like Vanilla times, give only a RARE number of the best ones a supre rank with "Rank 14 PvP gear".

 

Any takers?

 

In pve, you get your gear from facing appropriate levelled mobs. In blues, you face FP mobs, in purples you're into operations, in early ops gear you face HM, then onto NM.

 

In pvp- the people who got their gear first did so facing level 15s, so it was like a level 50 getting NM mode gear by beating black talon. Then, eventually, it got harder- and for those somewhat geared when 50 WZ came out, it was like being in columni gear getting your rakata gear while beating normal mode flashpoints.

 

For the new player though, at the moment, it's like trying to get rakata gear by facing nightmare mode... while in normal mode flashpoint gear. I dunno NM ops, maybe that's possible- but I don't consider the people who got rakata beating black talon to be better players than those who did it facing nightmare mode.

 

 

 

Gear disparity only benefits those who play most and get there first. Regardless, skill based pvp is more fun. If you want gear based- WoW's over there along with 10000 other mmos.

[blackdots]

PvP used to be about competing against your fellow players, now it's about getting the best gear the fastest so you can slaughter all those who don't have it yet...

 

This. Preach on, brother.

[-kobie-]

This. Preach on, brother.

 

Seconded.

[Sirolos]

i don't need better gear to outperform, i want it because i deserve it.

 

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