This game lacks epeen

[Terebor]

Without something to work towards, there is no purpose to playing. You don't need to be "hardcore" in TOR to complete progression. Everything is just too easy and not time consuming enough in this game.

 

Why developers keep thinking the easy route is the path to success baffles me. WoW didn't get popular because it was easy, it got popular because hardcore players made it popular, then the band wagon casuals flooded in and took over, turning it into easy mode. It happens in every aspect of life, not just games. The niche communities makes things popular, not the wagon jumpers.

 

Spoken directly out of my heart. Where do the so called casuals get their bossguides, skill guides etc from? from those whom try to play on the highest possible competitive level. Its them doing all the theorycrafting. So i think they deserve their share of competitiveness.

 

At this point (and i have to take in the knowledge of my friend cause i did no nightmare ops yet) the term "nightmare" just doesnt deliver what it really means. Failing is the best sign for a good fight (only if the reason is not a bug tho ) it tells you that u got to improve either gear, skill or tacticalwise...and thats what Raids/Ops are about...beeing challenged.

[Amaste]

Too bad hardcore minorities aren't as substantial as a wing on a plane. I'd much rather see SWTOR develop in a direction fostering its story-based medium than waste; yes, waste; one second of dev time catering to the tiny subset that chew up content as fast as humanly possible, then get bored, quit and snivel about lack of content.

 

I'd much rather see SWTOR cater to its IP roots and focus on delivering an ongoing saga than wind up a Star Wars based MOBA with a leveling process and a giant pile of story treated like a pinned-on afterthought.

 

May SWTOR fail absolutely to deliver the e-peen fix some dysfunctional sorts crave forevermore and get worse at it with every single patch until the servers roll up.

 

The e-peen mentality is why we can't have nice things.

 

I would argue that the e-peen mentality is why other mmo's *have* nice things; a community with an identity, resources for new/learning players and stable economies. Refer back to SWG's economy pre and post nge if you need an example, where certian prices jumped 300-2000% due to some areas of the game lacking supplies funded by, you guessed it, the hardcore community. WoW currently has one of the largest Wiki information pages in the world, not to mention countless other sites dedicated to it; What percentage of the information available there do you think was found by the small 5-10% of players that you're refering to compared to the casual majority who is just content to play the game? Researching loot tables, drop rates and making complete item lists broken down by rarity, type, stats etc. are not bothered with traditionally by the casual player, but it still benefits and enhances their gameplay, and they rightfully still use the information.

 

 

Even just looking at TOR will show you this fact. How much of the information on the game do we have from the beta testers who were grinding from 1-50 12 to 20 times to learn as much about the game as possible? How many are responsible for the guides and explanations for the flashpoints and boss fights? I would reference the TOR community, but there is no such thing in a game where pretty much everything is easy enough to do on your own. <_< TOR's ingame community doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same category as WoW, SWG or even Aion's community identities, and that's going to not only affect your current gameplay, but the future of this game as well. TOR to a new person might as well be a single player game, so if you're looking for a good story with a community that helps *drive* that story along, you're SOL and are going to look elsewhere after that story grows tiring or is finished.

 

What seems to be constantly missed is the hardcore players on WoW *created* the community and infastructure that the casuals can hop in and out of on their whim, just as hardcore players in SWG created what many still hold to be the greatest MMO community they've ever been a part of. So i guess the TL;DR is you're right that hardcores arent a substantial wing of the plane, if you'll agree that the workers that built your sports stadium aren't substantial in allowing you to enjoy your leisure time. <_<

 

 

Phew. xD Lunch time. :3 (sidenote; This is from the veiwpoint of a former hardcore player who's since become casual due to work and family obligations.)

[Darcedge]

They should just make up a new mode called Insanity Mode. In this mode, Bosses have triple the amount of hit points and have an enrage timer of 5 minutes, and can one shot non tanks and 3 shot regular tanks unless the enitre raid stands in a small green circle in less than 5 seconds and stays there for at least 10. Also the last boss has a .01% chance to drop a gold plated Mount and a 10% chance to drop your very own HK 47 pet that follows you around fleet and randomly spouts HK-47-speak at you.

 

Would that be good enough for the hardcore raiders out there?

[Stupiddrummer]

They should just make up a new mode called Insanity Mode. In this mode, Bosses have triple the amount of hit points and have an enrage timer of 5 minutes, and can one shot non tanks and 3 shot regular tanks unless the enitre raid stands in a small green circle in less than 5 seconds and stays there for at least 10. Also the last boss has a .01% chance to drop a gold plated Mount and a 10% chance to drop your very own HK 47 pet that follows you around fleet and randomly spouts HK-47-speak at you.

 

Would that be good enough for the hardcore raiders out there?

 

this post is bad and you should feel bad.

[CommonKnowledge]

What seems to be constantly missed is the hardcore players on WoW *created* the community

 

Exactly. WoW existed long before it really took off several years later. It wasn't just released and instantly gained 10 millions subscriptions. So who stuck with the game all that time and created sites like thottbot, wowwikki and elitist jerks? Certainly not the casuals because most of them arrived during WotLK.

 

This game doesn't have much (if any) community because short of rolling alts there's no reason to stick around and make one.

Edited February 28, 2012 by CommonKnowledge

[JediElf]

So basically this game lacks a measurement of the disparity between hardcore and causal players. Between the landed privilaged aristocracy and the peasent workers whom they expect to faun over them because of their epic armor?

 

edit: I mean don't most of us work already? Do we need two jobs? Especially one where we pay to work.

 

This.

 

We don't need ePeen here.

 

This is an intellectual game, not a cave man stomping ground.

 

This game has a community, but it's a stronger RP community than a "My sword is longer thain your sword noob!! *grunt grunt*" community.

 

We actually talk about Star Wars and lore in the chat channels, we help one another, we crack jokes and have fun conversations.

 

The community is doing just fine, thanks.

Edited February 28, 2012 by JediElf

[Stejo]

They should just make up a new mode called Insanity Mode. In this mode, Bosses have triple the amount of hit points and have an enrage timer of 5 minutes[...]

 

Funny as you may think you are, isn't this their current idea of difficulty modes?

[Rathik-]

Why anyone looks to an MMO, especially this one, for some sort of hardcore gaming experience to define themselves by is beyond me. There are so many competitive video games, as well as, you know.... other things besides video games, already out there.... it's mildly depressing that this thread even exists.

[Darcedge]

this post is bad and you should feel bad.

 

Great reply. I take it this wouldn't make you happy so why don't you enlighten us what exactly you want from the raids in Tor?

[Chessrook]

Oh I GET IT!

 

The hardcore players complaining all the time are like the 1%!

[getdownsb]

Uh, I don't know what you guys are on about but ePeen plays on Helm of Graush.

 

http://www.epeenery.com/content.php

 

lewl

Edited February 28, 2012 by getdownsb

[Stupiddrummer]

Great reply. I take it this wouldn't make you happy so why don't you enlighten us what exactly you want from the raids in Tor?

 

I honestly cant say. My highest is lvl 39 and i havent started raiding yet.

 

But to disregard the hardcore player bases contribution to the game as a whole is counter-productive and just plain retarded.

 

The people who contribute to the game arent people like me, who only have a small amount of time to play. They are the hardcores, that spend +8 hours a day on the game, and maintain community data bases (swtorwiki, torhead), design raid strats. theory craft, and (hopefully in the future) design mods and UI add-ons.

 

 

seriously read the OP

[Eddizel]

No.

 

No for once in a MMO.

 

We don't need you guys at all.

 

SW:TOR is a game about art, and story. It's a far more intellectual MMO than people will ever give it credit for. Yes for once it's the journey that really counts, it's the journey that feels so complete and so well done.

 

What this game does not need, is the destructive influence, of Alpha Male posturing.

 

If the devs catered 'only' to the ones that seek validation'as a man' through this digital means, (and make no mistake, at it's core that's what ePeen is all about), everything that most of us love about this game will be destroyed.

 

Art? Story? Lore? All of it will take a back seat to an parade of 'hard core' raids, and over tuned encounters. This group is never satisfied, and will tear, and claw, at each other and the devs, in a vain effort to be 'top dog'.

 

No.

 

This time we don't need you here, we don't need your destructive, and toxic, need for complete domination.

 

Find another game in which to 'prove your worth' to your peers, leave those of us who enjoy this game for what it is, who respect it for what it is, leave us in peace.

 

ePeen has no place, in a story driven game like this.

 

Pretty extreme stance, don't see why our playstyle bothers you. This game and its story can be experienced completely in single player and doesn't involve the hardcore players at all.

 

This is an MMO, with a subscription fee to play. "Story" is not going to maintain your subscriber base.

 

Don't worry though, you are getting your wish, we are leaving in droves. Trust me when I tell you this will only weaken this game that you enjoy, for the reasons I have already outlined above. Lose the hardcore base and watch the quality of this game diminish.

[Norumaniac]

Pretty extreme stance, don't see why our playstyle bothers you. This game and its story can be experienced completely in single player and doesn't involve the hardcore players at all.

 

This is an MMO, with a subscription fee to play. "Story" is not going to maintain your subscriber base.

 

Don't worry though, you are getting your wish, we are leaving in droves. Trust me when I tell you this will only weaken this game that you enjoy, for the reasons I have already outlined above. Lose the hardcore base and watch the quality of this game diminish.

 

 

I agree.

[JediElf]

Pretty extreme stance, don't see why our playstyle bothers you. This game and its story can be experienced completely in single player and doesn't involve the hardcore players at all.

 

This is an MMO, with a subscription fee to play. "Story" is not going to maintain your subscriber base.

 

Don't worry though, you are getting your wish, we are leaving in droves. Trust me when I tell you this will only weaken this game that you enjoy, for the reasons I have already outlined above. Lose the hardcore base and watch the quality of this game diminish.

 

I beg to differ.

 

We'll be just fine without you guys. You underestimate the people who appreciate this game, and who appreciate it's strengths. We are by no means weak, or stupid, and we'll form our own network of help and information.....just you watch.

 

The community is strong and getting stronger, but it's full of different people, a far more diverse group of individuals, who are enjoying this game right now, who enjoy and respect this games strong story elements.

 

This games quality will not diminish, the devs actually do know what they are doing, and they seem to have a clear goal in mind for the future. I'd rather have them in control of the games content, and not have it at the mercy of a small percentage of 'hardcores'.

 

We'll be fine without the ePeen, I can assure you.

Edited February 28, 2012 by JediElf

[Uruare]

I would argue that the e-peen mentality is why other mmo's *have* nice things; a community with an identity, resources for new/learning players and stable economies. Refer back to SWG's economy pre and post nge if you need an example, where certian prices jumped 300-2000% due to some areas of the game lacking supplies funded by, you guessed it, the hardcore community. WoW currently has one of the largest Wiki information pages in the world, not to mention countless other sites dedicated to it; What percentage of the information available there do you think was found by the small 5-10% of players that you're refering to compared to the casual majority who is just content to play the game? Researching loot tables, drop rates and making complete item lists broken down by rarity, type, stats etc. are not bothered with traditionally by the casual player, but it still benefits and enhances their gameplay, and they rightfully still use the information.

 

 

Even just looking at TOR will show you this fact. How much of the information on the game do we have from the beta testers who were grinding from 1-50 12 to 20 times to learn as much about the game as possible? How many are responsible for the guides and explanations for the flashpoints and boss fights? I would reference the TOR community, but there is no such thing in a game where pretty much everything is easy enough to do on your own. <_< TOR's ingame community doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same category as WoW, SWG or even Aion's community identities, and that's going to not only affect your current gameplay, but the future of this game as well. TOR to a new person might as well be a single player game, so if you're looking for a good story with a community that helps *drive* that story along, you're SOL and are going to look elsewhere after that story grows tiring or is finished.

 

What seems to be constantly missed is the hardcore players on WoW *created* the community and infastructure that the casuals can hop in and out of on their whim, just as hardcore players in SWG created what many still hold to be the greatest MMO community they've ever been a part of. So i guess the TL;DR is you're right that hardcores arent a substantial wing of the plane, if you'll agree that the workers that built your sports stadium aren't substantial in allowing you to enjoy your leisure time. <_<

 

 

Phew. xD Lunch time. :3 (sidenote; This is from the veiwpoint of a former hardcore player who's since become casual due to work and family obligations.)

 

 

 

I used to play a lot and get lumped into the 'hardcore' categorization by others, though I always thought of myself as casual for being more interested in lore, story and exploration than anything else. Little bit of completionism along with that, for my part.

 

 

The type of hardcore you're referencing would also not be the e-peen crowd, to attempt a distinction. I've personally known some of the minds behind Elitist Jerks, for example; yeah, they raided and, for the most part, were sync'd up with other people to do just that pretty regularly.

 

But they weren't putting together those fantastic resources in any of the cases of those I've known because they were especially motivated by ego.

 

They wanted to help people as a unified interest, including themselves by figuring out all the game mechanisms and being able to first understand and then explain them.

 

Sure, they got some recognition for the service provided, but they didn't get into that for the recognition, again of those I knew personally and can speak towards the discussed motives of.

 

Community pillars like you're referencing don't have, at their core, a raging need to be feel special; they're out to -be- special more often than not.

 

By helping others with genuinely useful and valuable information, helping others utilize and understand the oftentimes arcane systems and mechanics once you get to a point of really wanting to tweak, master and understand what's really going on, helping others get connected and be informed on various topics of centralizing interest and so on.

 

Comparing a hardcore e-peener to a longtime contributor to Elitists Jerks or oen of the managing staff behind Ten Ton Hammer isn't even vaguely rational.

 

It goes beyond 'apples and oranges' and you're doing a grave disservice to the genuinely involved, community-oriented individuals that have indeed made these games better and more available to everyone on the weight of their efforts to those that want nothing so much as for others to revere and envy them.

 

Whole different ballgame. E-peeners contribute nothing to anything anywhere ever, and really are why we can't have nice things.

 

 

Those that are hardcore aren't necessarily e-peeners. And so, I once again conclude, with greater specificity, that E-peeners are why we can't have nice things.

[Zannis]

The hardcore scene is not some finite, static group of people. It changes depending on the time, place, and game in question. For every hardcore player that leaves the scene, there are two ready to take the newly opened spot who are just as capable.

 

Since this post seems to be comparing this game's hardcore crowd to WoW's, I have to ask; How many people currently in WoW's hardcore scene were there at it's launch? Perhaps a handful at best. The rosters for each top ten guild changes and shuffles each time there's an expansion.

 

The OP's mistake is thinking that those who play and theorize at the hardcore level are irreplaceable. They're not. They're just as expendable as anyone else.

[Hokonoso]

So the hardcore minority is not playing anymore while the casual majority is enjoying the game?

 

it's bigger than that, it's that the grind is so small that even the casuals will hit it and if new content doesnt come out (and it better be good) then the majority will quit.

[Eddizel]

The hardcore scene is not some finite, static group of people. It changes depending on the time, place, and game in question. For every hardcore player that leaves the scene, there are two ready to take the newly opened spot who are just as capable.

 

Since this post seems to be comparing this game's hardcore crowd to WoW's, I have to ask; How many people currently in WoW's hardcore scene were there at it's launch? Perhaps a handful at best. The rosters for each top ten guild changes and shuffles each time there's an expansion.

 

The OP's mistake is thinking that those who play and theorize at the hardcore level are irreplaceable. They're not. They're just as expendable as anyone else.

 

This is true to a point. Players come and go, hardcore and casual alike. Right now however this game lacks any kind of harcore content and the turnover ratio for hardcore players is extreme based on what I have seen on my own server. I can pretty much guarantee you aren't losing one and replacing them with two others right now. This game is bleeding its hardcore element much faster then it is gaining one.

[FooBard]

Quality pvp players....

I stopped reading here.

 

People who give themselves ratings like this....

 

Well, I'm glad they're leaving, really.

[Laokoon]

Forgive me if I am wrong, or if someone has already said this, but isn't epeen merely a "sense of accomplishment?" As such, I can't fathom why anyone would argue against there being epeen in this game. Everybody everywhere wants to feel good about their accomplishments. By making certain things difficult, by setting goals for people, players feel good when they accomplish them. Once they have accomplished their goal, they want another, harder goal, to try to attain so they have that same feeling of accomplishment. Hence, higher and higher levels of difficulty in attaining goals.

 

If we were totally do away with any sense of accomplishment, image what the game would be like. Imagine a game where you just select any item in the game you want at any time from a database of items. Do you feel any pride or joy or accomplishment in attaining that item when it is just handed to you? No, you don't. What if all characters started at level 50. Would you have the sense of accomplishment that you have when you earn that level through hard work? No, you wouldn't. Yes, there are extreme unrealistic examples, but the lesson is applicable: enjoyment is derived from accomplishment (in many or most instances).

 

That being the case, how can epeen (I.E. - a sense of accomplishment) be bad?

Edited February 28, 2012 by Laokoon

[ZORG]

Special huh? where I come from everybody gets a trophy! Those kids payed their parents money to play too!

 

Surely you jest on the trophies right?

 

In the world i live in there are winners and LOOSERS

[CommonKnowledge]

That being the case, how can epeen (I.E. - a sense of accomplishment) be bad?

 

Because a sense of accomplishment necesscarily precludes some players which goes against the "I want it all and I want it now" mentality of too many players.

[Fantazm]

Surely you jest on the trophies right?

 

In the world i live in there are winners and LOOSERS

 

That's very nearly ironic.

[DarthKhaos]

You better keep your epeen hidden. I don't want to see it.