This game lacks epeen

[AsheraII]

Why don't you go play EVE Online then as a new player...then let me know how you like having to wait minutes, hours, days, weeks and months for items in the game to be built for end game content. OH wait I bet you would quit any game like that because you can't get to max level in a month.

Didn't someone once calculate that it would take about 21 years to max out every skill in EVE on a single character? Could be a few years more or less by now though, I haven't been there for ages!

[Samborino]

I also think this whole transferable mods with bonus's into orange gear thing worries me as it also takes away from the Epeen factor as you put it.

 

End game progression in PVE in most mmo's (including this one) happens solely through gear, if they just make it about mods (that have nothing unique about them) to stick into existing armor that is already in the game , it takes away alot of that progression. Ill explain why, orange gear at the moment has nothing rare about it really there is no "rare drop" orange gear that you can get off of high level bosses that are a challenge or anything. Mods on the other hand have nothing unique about them, they dont make your gear look any different they are just stats to put into something, by taking this away there is a disconnect in gear progression. You put mods that arent unique into gear that isnt a challenge to get, and that is going to be a problem IMO.They need to add rare drops, unique armor , weapons , relics that arent part of sets (there isnt any armor drops in end game PVE that arent part of a set, there is essentially 4 sets at the moment, tier gear, exotech, xenotech, energized. That is unnacceptable in my opinnion)

 

I honestly like the idea of being able to put high level armor mods with set bonus's in orange gear, but by doing it the way BW is planning on implementing it they are taking away from gear progression in the end game. What they should do is have these armoring's with set bonu's drop from high end bosses or from commendation vendors , this will allow people who want to make orange gear viable beable to do so. It wont take away as much from end game PVE progression though. If they continue according to plan epic items will just become a container for mods that you will put into orange gear, i dont agree with that. They need to be adding more end game PVE gear into the game not looking at ways they can add less or keep it the same. Part of the problem with why progression is so quick in this game is because of the lack of gear, right now HM FP's normal mode OPs 8 and 16 mans and well as commedation vendors all share the exact same loot. Even some gear from HM Ops is shared with the rest of the modes. This makes gear progression ridiculously easy, imagine if each of these "modes" had their own sets of gear. Progression would certainly take longer and it would require minimal effort from BW. Progression will be even quicker with the implementation of transferable armoring mods as its easier to get mods from any item then it is to get a specific piece of gear.

 

Ill hold more of my judgement until they actually release it , but if it is implemented poorly and im done leveling up a few more alts i may take a break until they get their **** straight. I dont really like the path this game is headed down in terms of end game progression unfortunately , it sucks because i really like this game for so many other reasons but their is only so many alts you can level up.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Samborino

[JeremyDale]

This game has no epeen factor or skill factor and that is why my server is dying fast.

 

We have 4 guilds that have cleared all nightmare 16 man raid content. Countless others doing 8 man.

 

Most pvpers got all the battlemaster gear and I never see them on anymore because they either quit or are waiting for some sort of incentive to log in again.

 

I don't think this game lacked endgame content, it was just way too easy to beat and way too easy to get all the gear in the game, pve and pvp.

 

Whatever hardcore playerbase was/is here needs challenging content and a reason to farm it. Quality pvp players need a competitive situation and not just a stupid RNG grind.

 

1.2 better hurry and it better be incredible, with rated warzones and compelling/challenging content.............but it might already be too late.

 

You can argue all day about game is failing/successful or thriving/dying but I can only tell you what I witness on my own server as someone who cares, and I have seen our pop dwindling, with our hardcore playerbase bleeding out extremely fast.

 

Maybe you want the more hardcore players gone, maybe you dislike them for whatever reason, but the hardcore playerbase is a good base of an MMO, you don't want to lose them.

 

In short, this game needs more epeen and reasons for hardcore players to keep playing.

 

It is a short window to keep us here before we move onto the next big thing or end up going back to MMO's that we came from that are simply doing it better. I was patient, gave game a couple of months, wasn't going to jump ship so fast, but time is running short.

 

You only hear or have bad experiences with the minority of hardcore players. The majority of them are good people who absolutely drive MMO's because they care.

 

They are the ones who create awesome websites with strats and videos for bosses, or the math nerds who theorycraft all the best specs and how to gear and spreadsheets and 3rd party programs to make the game better if you are into that stuff.

 

They are the ones who are comfortable leading PUG raids (ops) in their sparetime or leading rated pvp teams.

 

They are the ones who run smaller dungeon/flashpoint content multiple times looking for specific gear or trying out a new spec or playing alts or maybe even just for fun, while a casual may run it only once just to see it, this makes more groups happening and more often!

 

They are the ones who run the best guilds and push content and develop rivalries and server communities in both PVE and PVP.

 

They are the ones who are very active on the GTN and help drive the server economy.

 

They are the ones willing to test new content on patches on the test servers.

 

You may not want to believe it or care, but losing your hardcore playerbase has a very important trickle down effect on the servers. They are the players that are around the most and you will notice it when they are gone, I already am noticing it and it is not good.

 

Edit: Added one of my other posts to this as I felt it was relevant and helped add to my original point.

 

 

Meh... I don't really agree with you. I've managed to do a few hard-modes so far and I thought they were challenging enough. They weren't super hard, but they required you to focus and know what you were doing. Least from a healer perspective.

 

I feel this game has a decent amount of content for the so called "hardcore" crowd that like to focus on the gear-grind wheel. I feel it's the casual gamers who got screwed - with no effective LFG option and no real endgame content outside of hard modes and operations for players to enjoy.

 

So I disagree with you. As far as being able to show off your e-peen - I could care less about that.

[Samborino]

Meh... I don't really agree with you. I've managed to do a few hard-modes so far and I thought they were challenging enough. They weren't super hard, but they required you to focus and know what you were doing. Least from a healer perspective.

 

I feel this game has a decent amount of content for the so called "hardcore" crowd that like to focus on the gear-grind wheel. I feel it's the casual gamers who got screwed - with no effective LFG option and no real endgame content outside of hard modes and operations for players to enjoy.

 

So I disagree with you. As far as being able to show off your e-peen - I could care less about that.

 

I agree that casual players didnt get much content as well. Thats why it always pisses me off when ppl say that they made the content easy "for the casual players" and they made the gear progression short "for the casual players" i thought the whole point was that casual players didnt really raid or if they did it was in PUG groups every now and then on the easiest mode.

[JeffleighB]

for the vast majority of people - playing a game is not about epeen

 

It's about having fun

 

Heaps of people play solo games that have no epeen factor at all - far more than play all the mmos combined

 

Perhaps this is a bit of change in direction for an mmo - where there is a lot more focus on story line and immersion

 

Be interesting to see how it goes long term

[JeremyDale]

I agree that casual players didnt get much content as well. Thats why it always pisses me off when ppl say that they made the content easy "for the casual players" and they made the gear progression short "for the casual players" i thought the whole point was that casual players didnt really raid or if they did it was in PUG groups every now and then on the easiest mode.

 

Yeah i've never understood that either.

 

Creating an endgame that is almost entirely instance-based that relies on forming groups periodically over an extended period of time to grind gear is not very compatible with casual play. This is especially true considering this game lacks utterly any kind of effective tool to make it easier or convienent to form groups.

 

It was the casuals who truly got shafted on this game's endgame. Not the hardcore players. If you think you hardcores have it bad, you should try being a casual player who doesn't have the luxury of being able to commit to frequent raiding schedules. Those are the ones who are really suffering to try and enjoy this game's endgame - as there is absoultely nothing to do on this game after you hit level 50 outside of instanced hardmodes and operations.

Edited February 29, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Derfmiolleh]

I just payed 16 bucks for another month and I was happy to do it. I am having a blast scrubbing away at what I consider to be premium entertainment. Those who play over 40hours a week will never be satisfied, they can only be temporarily appeased. On my schedule it will take me much longer to milk all the value out of this amazing content. I just relax and anjoy. Eventually when the rest of us catch up BioWare will feed us more. The "hardcores" will always devour content quickly.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

People are complaining because the "hardest" raid content in the first raid created in a 2 month old MMO isn't as hard as the players want it to be?

 

Do you see where your logic falls apart?

 

Since it's their first raid they need time to get feedback, both from players and their own statistics. They need to get a better feel for how players play each class and how each class plays for different players.

That is nothing new. It's simply that BioWare couldn't possibly have the information required from the player base as a whole to adjust different content difficulties to the appropriate levels. Give them time to get their data.

 

 

That's why they have 3 levels of difficulty. But instead of spreading out the difficulty difference between them (so they could 'experiment') they just made them all incredibly easy.

 

On the WoW dev blog once they talked about how they make their decisions to nerf content, and how they tune it. They err on the side of "too hard" because it's better to have people bang their head against it and then slowly adjust the difficulty down until it's "just right" as opposed to letting people blow through it in a week and then upping the difficulty, making it so they can no longer complete content they've already "finished."

 

I understand that, and I'm not even a professional game developer. I expect better from the "pros" at BioWare.

[Senoko]

Bioware fix your game before it bleeds dry! The community of your game is fed up and all the initial reviews of your game is changing around the web, wake up!

[Ansultares]

I agree that casual players didnt get much content as well. Thats why it always pisses me off when ppl say that they made the content easy "for the casual players" and they made the gear progression short "for the casual players" i thought the whole point was that casual players didnt really raid or if they did it was in PUG groups every now and then on the easiest mode.

It's really an issue of how content is generated and presented.

 

I'm surprised no developer has instituted a tier system for releasing content, where current content is reduced in difficulty and expanded upon at the same time new raid content is released.

 

Basically, start with a raid focusing primarily on intricate boss fights, with minimal trash between bosses, and steep progression. Then begin expanding the content for small groups; less intricate boss fights, with more trash, sub-bosses, more complex quests than simply killing boss X. Finally, expand it to the point where it is a fully fleshed out zone, with solo difficulty boss fights, more engaging side-trash, many more quests, etc.

 

The truth is, real casuals don't even reach the end-game content they QQ about not being able to access; I don't know why you'd make them the primary target for end-game content, and simply scale up from there. Heck, themepark end-game isn't even that exciting; sandbox end-game would be much better.

 

Trickle-down game design....pro stuff.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Ansultares

[JeremyDale]

It's really an issue of how content is generated and presented.

 

I'm surprised no developer has instituted a tier system for releasing content, where current content is reduced in difficulty and expanded upon at the same time new raid content is released.

 

Basically, start with a raid focusing primarily on intricate boss fights, with minimal trash between bosses, and steep progression. Then begin expanding the content for small groups; less intricate boss fights, with more trash, sub-bosses, more complex quests than simply killing boss X. Finally, expand it to the point where it is a fully fleshed out zone, with solo difficulty boss fights, more engaging side-trash, many more quests, etc.

 

The truth is, real casuals don't even reach the end-game content they QQ about not being able to access; I don't know why you'd make them the primary target for end-game content, and simply scale up from there.

 

Trickle-down game design....pro stuff.

 

You are missing the point.

 

Casual will be able to access it - just not as frequently as hardcore players. They will maybe do hardmodes a couple of times a week at best. A raid now an then, possibly but will not be able to commit to regular raiding schedules and the like and wont' gear their character up nearly as quick as hardcores who raid and instance frequently usually every day.

 

Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 something commendations or w/e looks a lot more daunting to a casual player than it will to a hardcore player.

 

The issue isn't access generally, it's how frequently access is going to be acheived.

 

But at least SWTOR does have a gear-grind for hardcore players. YOu may find it too easy, but at least it exists. There is almost nothing for casuals on this game to do outside of particpating in the gear-grind hamsterwheel WoW invented that seems to appeal so much to the supposed hardcore crowd.

 

It was the casuals who got shafted on this game. Not the hardcores.

Edited February 29, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Ansultares]

You are missing the point.

Did you even read my suggestion?

 

Casual will be able to access it - just not as frequently as hardcore players.

Simply put, the game is too easy if true casuals are already reaching end-game content. You're talking about amateur hardcores (often ex-hardcores) who can't be bothered to accept that they're not going to sit at the cutting edge of gear/content progression due to their real life constraints.

 

They will maybe do hardmodes a couple of times a week at best. A raid now an then, possibly but will not be able to commit to regular raiding schedules and the like and wont' gear their character up nearly as quick as hardcores who raid and instance frequently usually every day.

What's funny is that if you have limited time and you want to engage in group activities, scheduling is usually the best way to go about doing it, in gaming or elsewhere in life.

 

Really, you're saying that you hate the most obvious solution to the issue, while also maintaining that you cannot accept that you won't be accessing the content now.

 

Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 something commendations or w/e looks a lot more daunting to a casual player than it will to a hardcore player.

Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 commendations looks repulsive to me in general, like daily quests and lockout timers.

 

The issue isn't access generally, it's how frequently access is going to be acheived.

Which leads to LFD, drastically decreased difficulty, unappealing and widespread lockout timers, etc., because casuals also don't like time sinks or RNG loot or any of a number of other methods for adding progression systems.

 

YOu may find it too easy, but at least it exists.

I find it shallow and uninteresting, never mind that it's too easy.

 

It was the casuals who got shafted on this game. Not the hardcores.

Casuals...so self-entitled. You really should just say that everyone got shafted.

[DreamEagle]

Just my thoughts on the issue.

 

Anything to satisfy the Epeeners (as in the obnoxious people ) should NEVER exist!!!

 

That said, I do however believe that the HArdcore ( non obnoxious for most part) should get their due. The higher the difficulty to beat the content.. the better stats there should be on the drops. And there should be tiered hardcore content..IE.. you need to have tier 1 gear before you can even think of fighting tier 2 content..etc.

 

However, Fluff belongs to everyone! Meaning... cool looking armors and weapons and colors and mounts and anything else that is just visual should be attainable by any play style. You should not have to be hardcore to obtain the best looking armor/weapon/mount. But as stated above, the hardcores should get better stats in their gear and maybe even a "slight" speed increase on the mounts dropped in harder content.

 

This applies to PVE. As far as PVP..there should be separate gear for that obtained only through PVP and there should be tiers such that PVPers in full BM cannot battle fresh 50's.

I don't really care what else is done with PVP as I only do it if there is something cool looking or better for PVE.

 

In short..say NO to Epeeners!!!! And give some Lovin to BOTH hardcores and casuals.

[JeremyDale]

Did you even read my suggestion?

 

Simply put, the game is too easy if true casuals are already reaching end-game content. You're talking about amateur hardcores (often ex-hardcores) who can't be bothered to accept that they're not going to sit at the cutting edge of gear/content progression due to their real life constraints.

 

What's funny is that if you have limited time and you want to engage in group activities, scheduling is usually the best way to go about doing it, in gaming or elsewhere in life.

 

Really, you're saying that you hate the most obvious solution to the issue, while also maintaining that you cannot accept that you won't be accessing the content now.

 

Obtaining 50 tionese crystals and 30 commendations looks repulsive to me in general, like daily quests and lockout timers.

 

Which leads to LFD, drastically decreased difficulty, unappealing and widespread lockout timers, etc., because casuals also don't like time sinks or RNG loot or any of a number of other methods for adding progression systems.

 

I find it shallow and uninteresting, never mind that it's too easy.

 

Casuals...so self-entitled. You really should just say that everyone got shafted.

 

 

I don't like splitting up my quotes so i'll just collect everything you said here and respond generally.

 

And yes, I read your suggestion - but the problem with the hardcore vs casual issue isn't just ease of access or difficulty of content, that was what I was trying to explain to you. It's also a lack of content. They are trying to appeal to casuals and hardcores with the same type of content - and I feel that is part of the issue.

 

And adhering to frequent schedules is just not possible for many players - so I disagree with you that it's an obvious solution. The better solution would be to include an effective LFD tool so casuals can easily access content when they do have time to play.

 

As far as you calling casuals "self-entitled" and your frequent use of the word "you" as if trying to make this post personal and about me, I'll just ignore for now

 

Hardcores got shafted to a degree, yes - but not nearly to the extent casuals did. This game built their entire endgame soely around an instance-based gear-grind, a model that is going to appeal more-so to hardcores who can commit to frequent raiding times rather casuals who play off and on and can't commit to group schedules.

Edited February 29, 2012 by JeremyDale

[kaboro]

Always better to lack epeen than to lack brains......the problem is you cant figure that out with your epeen, just with your brains, and apparently they are mutually exclusive.....brains and epeen that is.

[Eddizel]

I just payed 16 bucks for another month and I was happy to do it. I am having a blast scrubbing away at what I consider to be premium entertainment. Those who play over 40hours a week will never be satisfied, they can only be temporarily appeased. On my schedule it will take me much longer to milk all the value out of this amazing content. I just relax and anjoy. Eventually when the rest of us catch up BioWare will feed us more. The "hardcores" will always devour content quickly.

 

I play 9 hours a week, right now less then 3 to just farm the raids and log off. I have lost all interest in a pvp system with no competition so I am not logging in for that either.

 

40 hours a week rofl, don't confuse some hardcore players for bad players, alot of us get twice as much done as a casual player in half the time, like that old military saying.

 

Devoured it quickly? Yes. Had to play alot to do it? Hell no.

[Aussiedroid]

Agree with the post. We have a group only half geared for OPs yet we still get through with little issue. Now we have been in the OPs several times its just a cake walk. The only thing that generally kills us is game bugs (Soa anyone??).

 

Its not just once you get the gear you can clear, it should require skill and persistence to get through these OPs. We dont simply need enrage times to make things harder, BW need to up the scale to make this a chalellenge to survive (not simply 1 shot kills if you do something wrong).

 

Regrettably the game design from dialogue all the way to end game content is designed for casual gamers in my view and well to be blunt ... kids. I got the simular feeling watching the newer prequel trilogy too.

 

So those real players who will spend the time and month after month keep playing will be lost in this game.

 

Bioware may not be overly concerned as we will fuel money to them to keep the advertising and marketing machine going to secure new subs. In the long run this will simply bleed the game dry though.

 

The game should cater for both groups.

[Stabbitha]

I just payed 16 bucks for another month and I was happy to do it. I am having a blast scrubbing away at what I consider to be premium entertainment. Those who play over 40hours a week will never be satisfied, they can only be temporarily appeased. On my schedule it will take me much longer to milk all the value out of this amazing content. I just relax and anjoy. Eventually when the rest of us catch up BioWare will feed us more. The "hardcores" will always devour content quickly.

 

Good for you. The two people like you are still subscribed in a friends guild of 25.

 

The other 23 or so are letting their accounts lapse when they run out because there's nothing left to do and we already have TS for socialising...

 

I don't much care for big "I R QUITTING" posts because I don't think they accomplish much, but BW and co. can see the account details, and if my guess is correct, they should be a bit worried if the ghost town my server has become is any indication.

[Ansultares]

They are trying to appeal to casuals and hardcores with the same type of content - and I feel that is part of the issue.

I thought my suggestion of tiered content addressed that. February's op is March's flashpoint is April's solo content, and it gets expanded for story and content while adjusted for complexity along the way.

 

The better solution would be to include an effective LFD tool so casuals can easily access content when they do have time to play.

There must be a better solution, something between the current LFG and LFD. Blizzard took the easiest solution when they went with LFD, which is surprising because if I expected anyone to design a better LFG tool it would be Blizzard.

 

I'll ignore the rest, though my final point is still very accurate.

[JeremyDale]

I thought my suggestion of tiered content addressed that. February's op is March's flashpoint is April's solo content, and it gets expanded for story and content while adjusted for complexity along the way.

 

There must be a better solution, something between the current LFG and LFD. Blizzard took the easiest solution when they went with LFD, which is surprising because if I expected anyone to design a better LFG tool it would be Blizzard.

 

I'll ignore the rest, though my final point is still very accurate.

 

Tiered content is still the same type of content. It's the WoW-style hamsterwheel where players grind certain instances or raids over and over for new gear. That's just not going to appeal to a lot of casual players - especially if that is all there is to do. It doesn't matter how easy or how difficult it is. That is why I'm trying to tell you.

 

I loathed WoW. But I thought their LFG tool was very effective and useful, and would love to see it on this game. That's the only thing I thought WoW did right. But while that would make accessing hardmodes and other group-based content easier for casuals to access - it still doesn't address the lack of a variety in content at endgame though. That's a problem as well, especially for casuals trying to enjoy this game after they reach level 50.

 

As far as your final point being accurate. If that was the snide little comment about casuals being self-entitled or w/e... it wasn't accurate at all, and was just dumb

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

So the hardcore minority is not playing anymore while the casual majority is enjoying the game?

Exactly. Those "hardcore" have clearly got to the stage where they need thier egos stroked and I trying to convince us that we can't have the game without them.

 

I find it all rather amusing, as the game will continue quite well without them and they just can not get over that fact.

[BCBull]

Lacks epeen? HAs now epeen come 1.1.5. Everyone gets twice the valor we get now just for completing the war zone.

[BCBull]

Exactly. Those "hardcore" have clearly got to the stage where they need thier egos stroked and I trying to convince us that we can't have the game without them.

 

I find it all rather amusing, as the game will continue quite well without them and they just can not get over that fact.

 

Remember when Twinks thought they had a whole bunch of people who like to twink? They thought they had a large community?

 

Just like the "casuals" think they have a large community...

Edited February 29, 2012 by BCBull

[daMarek]

Point is game lacks epeen, and will even more so after 1.1.5

 

There is nothing wrong with epeen for casuals, but without it it just ruins it for half the playerbase.

[DarthKhaos]

I like this game for the same reason I like Mass Effect, story driven action adventure, set in a futuristic world. All the people who bought this for PvP, bought the wrong game. Same reason I would not buy Battlefield or Call of Duty for the story or single player experience, but strictly for the PvP.

Don't know what you're talking bout here buddy. I'm enjoying the PvP.

 

 

I have lost all interest in a pvp system with no competition so I am not logging in for that either.

The only reason for this is because for some odd reason people think PvP is over once you get the good PvP gear. I never understood this.

Edited February 29, 2012 by DarthKhaos