first of all. you dont pay a monthly sub for minecraft. secondly, it was finished. It was just in beta for so long that you could consider that the real game. Adding more content for free later doesn't equal unfinished.

i must've missed the part where gamers are fine purchasing unfinished products. A game should be finished when it's released, not rely on patches to fix things that should've been there since day one.

the game starts at max lvl because that's when you have the most people to play with. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 14s. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 36s. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 40s. I hope you see what im getting at. MMOs are designed for perpetual game-play, where the devs keep adding more content for you to complete until the game finally dies. If you're playing a perpetual game, chances are you are going to get to max lvl. If you are still playing a perpetual game, chances are you are going to spend most of your time at max level. The leveling process is designed to teach you howto play your class. Not be an end in itself. If you want your game to end at max level stop paying a subscription and pick up final fantasy 7 or something.

It is really buggy. Even the dialogue parts have the signature Bioware frame stuttering and characters jumping in an out of the scene like in Mass Effect. Most of the bugs in themselves aren't gamebreaking. But taken altogether it is pretty disheartening. I've never submitted more tickets in a game than i have in SWTOR, and pretty much all of those tickets were bug reports.

The cover bar is really just skill bar 5. It just switches automatically to it when you go into cover. So you don't really have an extra bar, just an option enabled to switch to a certain bar when you enter cover. I haven't played a stealth class, but i really do appreciate the convenience of my cover bar. I could see why stelathers would want a situational bar too. It's really a shame, because macros could easily fix this for people.

no combat logs, for one. You can checkout sithwarrior.com, i'm pretty sure those guys are actively penning down their numbers in order to analyze them...haha. the content is easy, so there hasn't been a point where theory crafting was truly necessary beyond the hobby of doing it. IMO, the majority of this games' market is story focused, and the majority of players couldn't be bothered with math or theory.

i spacebar to verify that the predictable story is still predictable.

I played through the smuggler storyline. I'm with the OP, i found myself mashing the space bar more often then not. Even on class quests.

Not to mention Luke's DPS was fine, (or else the Death Star wouldn't have gotten blown up) and could be verified by combat logs to avoid him being kicked from the group. Like it or not, SWTOR is a game. I mean seriously, do you upgrade your mods? Because all mods do it provide statistical advancement, not aesthetic (except for color crystals). So if you ever once upgraded your mods you are lifting up your "precious" curtain.

Good post!

Just to be clear, one side here is arguing that we should add full combat logs and combat data into the game. The other side here is arguing that the opposition shouldn't be given full combat logs and combat data. Does that sound right?

What counts as self data? What if someone heals me. Should i know how much i got healed for? What if they are self-conscious about their healing? Does that mean i'll look at my log, see that i took way more damage than i have HP, and assume i got healed?

Well, other MMOs you could download addons if you wanted to. Nothing required it. however, if you want to parse your combat logs, you have no choice but to seek out a 3rd party site. That's a pretty big difference.

It's about liability. If Bioware had decided to put their own tool in game, there would be 0% chance to get a keylogger from trying to download a parser. since Bioware decided that you are free to download your own parser, you now have a > 0% chance to download a keylogger. I just don't understand why Bioware is comfortable passing the liability onto the player, when the liability should really be a non-issue.

Bioware/EA is very fluent in market-speak. Don't feel bad though they had me fooled at one point, too. Remember how exciting and immersive they said the space combat would be? They didn't exactly lie, they just embellished on a lot of adjectives, and made a point to be incredibly vague. How much more vague can it get than "combat information displayed in cinematic ways?" This is a game founded on rolling a D20, not trying to find meaning in an interpretive dance.

It's not going to be an issue, because the people still playing at 1.2 wont be bothered to look at combat data or download parsers. Bioware has picked their target market.

ooooo that would be nice

better targeting. -bigger hitboxes on players -clickable name-plates -intuitive tab targetting -show target of target box

I don't want to call you a liar but i'd love to see where blizzard said that. Regardless, factor in =/= require. and they are VERY different from cheats. I think i just stepped on a troll landmine.

While they do have the data, it is much more efficient to out-source your data collection to the community. If every raider was able to look at their combat data from NM modes, that would be THAT many more people analyzing the fights. And bioware doesn't have to pay them...in fact, they pay Bioware (or EA...whatevs). This is similar to how more bugs are spotted when games are released compared to being in Beta (or at least with this game, lol). Larger sample size helps increases the validity of the data and a larger group of data collectors helps with analysis.

tunnel vision is a terrible argument. Blame the player not the tool. i used Recount in WoW on my druid to gauge my overhealing at the end of battles.

right. When i say evidence, that means another game under the same circumstances. Considering that adding combat logs and meters to a game has never once in the past (as far as i know, hence, why i asked for an example) been attributed to the degradation of the community/culture.

surely with a healthy relationship between devs and high end raiders, who can provide combat data, the devs are in a better position to fine tune the content the most extreme difficulty (the top end raiders) and tone it down from there. I'm pretty sure that's what WoW did. Start from the ceiling and work down. Not that I'm advocating impossible content, but i think it's more engaging to have players boggling their minds as to "WHY CANT WE BEAT THIS!" then to give them push over content that hardly requires gearing up. basically, interaction between devs and the best raiders enables devs to fine-tune the numbers involved with the encounters.

I think you misunderstand. I was looking for an example of a game that didn't have logs or meters, but later added them, consequently ruining the community/game culture. the closest thing that comes to mind is WoW. Which always had combat logs and meters. and i'd attribute the decline in the community (the decline, be arguable in itself) to gained anonymity through cross server implements, and gear score. edit; or if you could just name an MMO that released without combat logs or meters...lol

All of the anecdotes, regardless of the side of the argument someone was on, have all just been about elitest jerks. The difference is some anecdotes are blaming jerky behavior on in game tools. i'll sit here and wait for the anecdote about the guy that was immersed in the story, but once combat metrics were available, found that he could only focus on the numbers and tunnel vision DPS, only to realize months later that he couldn't even remember what he had named his character....