Gear based PvP is amateur hour

[Calei]

Gear progression is fine. Expertise is fine as well.

 

If it wasn't for these systems of pure win we wouldn't have such incredible PVP like this..

 

That video is clearly the best PVP ive seen in years...

 

Cause we all know REAL PVPers dont PVP at all, they FARM!!

 

Exactly.

 

These people want me to play lvl 50 PVP? Why? To compete against these clowns?

 

What a joke of a game.

[DarthNethus]

Gear progression is fine. Expertise is fine as well.

 

If it wasn't for these systems of pure win we wouldn't have such incredible PVP like this..

 

That video is clearly the best PVP ive seen in years...

 

Cause we all know REAL PVPers dont PVP at all, they FARM!!

 

I wish people were doing this on my server... Then I could participate in some real pro PVP.

 

/Sarcasm.

[Asnine]

Just another side note....not facing as daunting a gear gap *might* help server population too.

 

I know the biggest reason I didn't want to reroll (I ended up doing it anyways) was because I didn't feel like grinding out all my champ/bm gear again.

[DrekorSilverfang]

That's a made up genre name. It's an MMORPG where you just play battlegrounds.

 

It's actually an RTS

[DirtyDiggler]

Darkfall 2 if it ever launches....

[ColdStormx]

This is an MMO. Go play DOTA, LoL, HoN, Any FPS etc. That is what you are looking for. BYE

[Erasimus]

You want a challenge? Roll a new alt and hit the warzones at lvl 11. You have enough skills to deal damage and kill lvl 40+ players. I've done it and it feels awesome. The 40+ do have an advantage due to more tools but, I have enough tools to deal enough damage to kill them.

 

The only thing I fear is the lvl 49's quitting before the end of a warzone and buying pvp weapons, removing the expertise mod and popping it in thier gear. At that point the 10-49 PVP would probably become retarded just like the lvl 50 PVP.

 

First, as I mentioned in my earlier post, gear progression/character improvement is part of the fun of an MMO, at least for me.

 

Now I've done exactly 1 Flash Point and I have 8 characters 4 Empire, 4 Republic, and PvP on all of them. The highest two are 47 (republic) and 42 (Empire). About all I do so far is PvP and Quest.

 

Under 14 PvP can be painful (I've started at 10 or 11 on each character). If I remember correctly none of my toons got sprint or their shield until 14 and that is a pretty significant handicap depending on the WZ map. The lack of other talents like extra CC abilities can also be significant.

 

What keeps it interesting is when you get an opposing group with approximately the same number/level characters. The times when my teams have significantly more low level characters than the opponents we usually get rolled badly. Not to mention that many people just leave if they see too many low level characters.

 

And you don't need to be 49 to buy weapons with expertise enhancements that can be removed. I believe you can start at 36? It won't give you a ton, but you can get over 100 easily plus extra crit well before 49 if you are willing to spend the valor on weapons.

[dannythefool]

It appeases both sides. The only group it doesn't appease are those who don't want to admit they like progression and are stuck at the new 50 hump.

 

There's also those who would like to do open world PVP but don't like progression...

 

That's fine by me- I deal with it, learn to play against them while they have the gear advantage. As I gain gear, I see them as less of a threat- once I reach their gear, which will be soon- the gear grind isn't that bad at all- it becomes the skill game again.

 

The thing is, you can have the skill game all the time if you just keep re-rolling around 40. It takes about a day to get another character ready for warzones. And in the event that they actually DO fix endgame pvp you'll have a crapton of near-50 characters with 1000/1000 comms and a champion bag and valor rank 49 or something like that and so on.

[GameNirvana]

This is an MMO. Go play DOTA, LoL, HoN, Any FPS etc. That is what you are looking for. BYE

 

MMO should have both aspects to the game...not just grind. Go to *********** Asia and grind with all of them.

[SourD]

It would be nice if we could level lock. My server is pretty dead in 50's bracket.

 

It is not fun getting 3 pieced.

 

 

Gear is a crutch. It is sad.

[Roak]

pvp depth is often overlooked in mmo development also, and it is something that ultima got right 15 years ago. lets take a quick look at the different ways of pvping in that game way back then

 

1. criminal/murderer system (be a criminal flagged to anyone, be a murderer get red name and skill loss)
   
2. faction system (4 factions, could take over towns, dynamic titles, balance enforced)
   
3. player bounties (murder victims could post a bounty on their murderer)
   
4. guild warring (with website tracking)
   
5. order/chaos (a 2nd level of faction play)
   

 

All these were going on in the same game at the same time and all were totally separate. Now we get forced into one mundane grind for epics that are required to be competitive.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Roak

[jakeic]

It would be nice if we could level lock. My server is pretty dead in 50's bracket.

 

It is not fun getting 3 pieced.

 

 

Gear is a crutch. It is sad.

 

you're playing an mmo-rpg, the name of the game is character progression (through levels and gear). gear should matter.

 

i'm not saying the current system is the greatest, because it honestly sucks, but if you're looking for a game where you don't have to have gear, you're not going to find it playing an mmorpg.

 

i'm sure this has all been said before.

[Erasimus]

MMO should have both aspects to the game...not just grind. Go to *********** Asia and grind with all of them.

 

See now this is a matter of opinion and semantics. What is grinding? To me grinding is flying in endless circles gathering mats so I can create flasks/potions/etc. to remain competitive. Playing WZs or doing FPs to gradually improve both my gear and my skill is playing and is fun for me. It is the reason I play MMOs like SWTOR and WoW. (Note: I've tried a bunch of others but so far these are the only two that I've stuck with for any length of time.)

 

I understand that what I like may not appeal to everyone. But if something major like PvP gear progression, that is unlikely to change, makes the game unpleasant for someone why continue to play? If there are truly enough people that feel this is a game breaker and leave it will probably change and then the people who like this paradigm, like me, would be the minority and would most likely stop PvPing or leave.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but remember that, by every estimate I've seen, only a minority of people actually read the forums and even fewer bother to post. So while I feel it is useful to make suggestions most requests for major change are probably an uphill battle.

[SertisKlein]

If you look at motor racing, you sometimes see different classes of racing. Stock, modified, unlimited, etc. I wouldn't mind if we had different types of warzones for people who have different ideas of how PVP should be played.

 

The current 1-49 tier seems to be fine, that can be unchanged unless anyone really has an issue with it (I just started an alt, and PVP'ed 25 levels through it and didn't feel that the bolstering system was too bad)

 

The 50 tier can be broken up into

 

Stock League: Everyone is normalized to level 50 gear (cent equivalent or slightly under) so everything you see is cosmetic. Valor still accrues, you can still buy better gear for the other PVP leagues with your commendations. This is like football, where equipment isn't a factor at all since there's only a few standard loadouts to choose from (heal/tank/dps) per class.

 

Modified: Everyone can wear any gear they want, and expertise is ignored. Lots of people have asked for this. Since PVP gear is already better than gear most players have when they just hit 50. Valor still accrues, you can save up for your battlemaster. A better option for pugs than unlimited.

 

Unlimited: Like the current PVP tier, and the default for open world PVP. The modified league might pull a large population away from unlimited, at least until people start getting geared up past a certain level. Perhaps there can be valor bonuses to make it more attractive. This may also be a good place for premades to duke it out.

[Tenthletter]

Protip: Its call carrot on the stick. Gives incentive/reason to actually pvp.

 

Why not PVP because it's fun instead of PVP to lose or AFK your way to a gear crutch?

 

Games are supposed to be fun, not work. Telling paying customers that they have to grind through 2 weeks of getting farmed before they can start having fun is no longer an acceptable business model.

 

Argue all you want, but for PVP in this game to work, people have to participate. Telling people to 'suck it up' for weeks fosters a negative attitude towards PVP and is ultimately detrimental to the game.

 

I'm curious to see how GW2 works out. If they handle it like GW1 then gear is irrelevant, and you can PVP immediately upon installing the game. An FPS sense of non-reliance on gear but an MMO style of combat.

[Bhorzo]

For the 2 above posters, I'm glad for GW2.

 

They'll have 2 formats:

 

1) Bolstered server vs server vs sever PVP. This is sorta like open world PVP but with the 1-49 bolstering. You only have your level's skills, but your stats are boosted. Gear is left intact.

 

2) Equalized PVP. Everyone is max level. Everyone has identical gear.

 

True open world PVP won't exist, but at least the other 2 options sound good.

 

/fingers crossed

[Garroda]

DAOC's skill based system.

 

Why more companies dont look at this is beyond me.

 

Look at DAoC, Warhammer, (fill in PvP centric game here) and compare subscriber base to WoW, Star Wars TOR (Fill in PvE centric least common denominator L2P too much time on your hands chase-the-carrot game) and you will have your answer.

 

Shocker, they want to market to larger player base.

[dannythefool]

I'm curious to see how GW2 works out. If they handle it like GW1 then gear is irrelevant, and you can PVP immediately upon installing the game. An FPS sense of non-reliance on gear but an MMO style of combat.

 

I think that's what they're planning.

 

It's also easily possible to have an MMO-like reward system anyway. Just make it rewards that aren't effective in PVP. Stuff for your guild or faction, that sort of thing. Have a look at EVE to see what is possible, even a fraction of that would be amazing in a game like SWTOR.

[dannythefool]

Look at DAoC, Warhammer, (fill in PvP centric game here) and compare subscriber base to WoW, Star Wars TOR (Fill in PvE centric least common denominator L2P too much time on your hands chase-the-carrot game) and you will have your answer.

 

Shocker, they want to market to larger player base.

 

The thing is though, the only PVE game that really managed to pull this off is WOW. There have been countless others, which failed in rapid succession. (Or at least the publishers said they failed when they really did reasonably well, but not well enough to justify hundreds of millions in budget...)

 

Then look at some PVP centric games like EVE and you'll see a smaller subscriber base, but one that has been growing ever since 2003 when the game was released. Now tell me how many games manage to pull that off, and which model is a better long term business plan...

Edited February 1, 2012 by dannythefool

[ProJarrod]

DAOC's skill based system.

 

Why more companies dont look at this is beyond me.

 

Because it was a horrible game that looked as bad as it played,

[RealAeiouy]

Since everyone can easily get the same gear it is not gear based. Only lazy people who don't like pvp claim it is gear based.

 

It is however team based so stop acting like a wannabe Rambo and help your team.

 

Also stop pretending you are skilled, nobody who is good at pvp cares about gear progression. That is solely for pve weekend warriors who think they are better than they are and blame gear for their failing. Skilled pvp players will contribute to winning regardless of their gear.

 

It is funny when people act like all that is keeping their mad skills from showing is gear. You can recognize a skilled player regardless of level or gear.

[RamzaBehoulve]

.People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it.

 

 

PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it.

 

Err what?

 

Guild Wars is this way --> http://www.guildwars.com

[RamzaBehoulve]

Look at DAoC, Warhammer, (fill in PvP centric game here) and compare subscriber base to WoW, Star Wars TOR (Fill in PvE centric least common denominator L2P too much time on your hands chase-the-carrot game) and you will have your answer.

 

Shocker, they want to market to larger player base.

 

DAoC is over 10 years old now...

 

WAR had major problems outside of the PvP system.

[Greyfeld]

Since everyone can easily get the same gear it is not gear based. Only lazy people who don't like pvp claim it is gear based.

 

It is however team based so stop acting like a wannabe Rambo and help your team.

 

Also stop pretending you are skilled, nobody who is good at pvp cares about gear progression. That is solely for pve weekend warriors who think they are better than they are and blame gear for their failing. Skilled pvp players will contribute to winning regardless of their gear.

 

It is funny when people act like all that is keeping their mad skills from showing is gear. You can recognize a skilled player regardless of level or gear.

 

Yeah, because when I'm specced and geared to tank as a fresh level 50 Vanguard, and I have a fully geared Marauder that chews through my 12k+ health in under 5 seconds every time I spawn, that's totally a skill issue, and I should feel bad, amirite?

 

The only people that feel this system works are the ones who aren't 50 yet, or geared up pre-1.1.

 

At level 49, as a tank, my role was to harass (since I don't have enough damage to actually kill anybody), reduce damage to key teammates, and run the ball during Huttball matches. At level 50, as a tank with no pvp gear, the best I can do is throw my Guard on a healer so that I die before he does, and hope my Cryo Grenade is useful once every 50 seconds.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Greyfeld

[Jestunhi]

Yeah, because when I'm specced and geared to tank as a fresh level 50 Vanguard, and I have a fully geared Marauder that chews through my 12k+ health in under 5 seconds every time I spawn, that's totally a skill issue, and I should feel bad, amirite?

 

The only people that feel this system works are the ones who aren't 50 yet, or geared up pre-1.1.

 

And how have you equipped this fresh 50?

 

He sounds naked to me.

 

Expertise is available before 50 if you want to be ready for the 50 bracket. If you choose to use sub-standard gear aimed at pve in the highest pvp queue then what do you expect?