Confused and Very Upset!

[Rodashym]

very very wrong as well. Its a PVE server, you should not be able to attack a flagged player if you are not flagged yourself

 

How interestingly absurd this comment is. If you are/were a WoW player, arguably the largest MMO (currently ) - their PvE servers behave EXACTLY like this. If you are not flagged for PvP, and your enemy is, if you hit your flagged enemy, YOU become flagged for PvP and the battle is on. Usually, an unwanted fight occurs from an unflagged toon accidentally targeting and hitting a flagged player directly while fighting mobs, or from an AoE attack on a mob, and the flagged player gets "tagged" in the AoE. Many flagged players "taunt" unflagged players to start a fight.

[Doxxs]

Seriously you need to report this to BW immediately (if you have not already).

 

This info will cause a griefer explosion and run off a lot of players if gone unchecked.

 

On the other hand if not expect a mass exodus from PvP servers to PvE servers soon.

I mean it is like a griefers paradise.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Doxxs

[Kane]

You want a refund? Seriously? I'm sure this issue is very frustrating for you but I lose all sympathy (I know, the perfect stranger -- it hurts!) with this kind of po-faced grovelling. If you can't smile when something goes wrong, you're probably playing the wrong kind of game.

[Herbaceous]

And to all that is stating that this happens in every game your wrong I have been playing since the Mud days and I know what I enjoy and what I don't, call me care bear, call me what you want but you don't pay for my game so I don't think you should be telling me how I want to play, and if a game advertisement states that I do not have to PVP then I should not have to worry about if I am not on PVP server.

 

Well said!

 

I've had this PvP flag mysteriously tag me (without warning) on Taris. It caught me completely off guard... However, I do enjoy a bit of PvP, so I had a some fun owning the guy who attacked me, with my Powertech But I totally agree that PvP should be at the users desire/request and not a random occurance because of bugs or oversights by the developers.

 

PvP is fun, but it has its place and that's generally not when trying to do missions

[Manathayria]

How interestingly absurd this comment is. If you are/were a WoW player, arguably the largest MMO (currently ) - their PvE servers behave EXACTLY like this. If you are not flagged for PvP, and your enemy is, if you hit your flagged enemy, YOU become flagged for PvP and the battle is on. Usually, an unwanted fight occurs from an unflagged toon accidentally targeting and hitting a flagged player directly while fighting mobs, or from an AoE attack on a mob, and the flagged player gets "tagged" in the AoE. Many flagged players "taunt" unflagged players to start a fight.

 

Funny.... so why can I rain of fire over flagged characters there and not get flagged in wow?

 

Oh, right, because they changed these skills so that you needed to target the player with a skill and not just the area they're in. To prevent griefing like this.

 

Believe that change happened pre-BC but I may be a tad off on the time line there.

 

Anyway. The trick bioware needs do is trying to not making the same mistakes other MMOs made (like the flagging from special needs players running into your aoe when you're not flagged). Another game doing something that allows a player to get griefed in a certain way doesn't justify others doing it too.

 

You don't just barely meet a standard set by another product to sell it, you try exceeding it. Some of those that are justifying the griefer's actions by saying 'well that's how it is' need to realise that.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Manathayria

[Shammus]

I think there may actually be an option to make it so no one can force your pvp flag on

 

The big problem is you may get some ****** running into your mobs flagged for pvp waiting for you to hit him with some sort of aoe

 

I would go through the preferences and look if it hasn't been suggested already.

[Unfactioned]

Name one game where you can't. That's actually the reason to run around flagged, is so YOU get jumped.

 

On a PvE server a non-flagged person shouldn't be able to damage a flagged person PURELY for this kind of griefing. They didn't want to be flagged for PvP, so it shouldn't automatically flag them because someone (intentionally) ran into their AoE (or any kind of damage for that matter). The person "wanting to get jumped" can still get jumped easily by players flagging themselves via interface, they shouldn't be able to force people to get flagged and then kill them.

 

On a PvE server, PvP is supposed to be purely based on the choice of the player controlling the character, not by any other outside means. Entering an open PvP flagged area such as Ilum PvP side is a choice of the player, you can't argue that. Someone jumping into my AoE while flagged and FORCING me to get flagged isn't how it is supposed to work.

[MarkkuJ]

I've been flagged for PvP when I healed a player that was flagged as such when I decided to help friends and was not on their party, just passing the attack scene.

 

And I think that you should only be flagged PvP when in those PvP areas or servers, not in normal areas in PvE server.

[Cbaoth]

I bought this game for PVE where does it say the last stretch to 50 is nothing but a gank fest on a PVE Server???

 

Lol..exaggerate much?

[Nitewolfe]

For those saying that it works this way in wow currently I wanted to disprove you wrong.

You see i have a advantage here i have current subs to wow, swtor and rift.

 

Logged in on ally mage, Wife logged in on her horde mage. She pvp flagged. I was not pvp flagged, I cast blizzard and had her run thru it over and over again! I was NEVER pvp flagged from her running thru my aoe's!

So NO it does not work this way in wow at all!!!

 

Rift.. Me on guardian rouge wife on defiant mage, I have pvp auto flag turned off She could run thru my aoe all night and i never got flagged. In rift i trid to target her and fire a arrow at her.. Message in chat Pvp flag in compatible with target! I was not flagged from it and she took no damage.

Me still on rogue and how she is on her guardian mage (yes she likes mages). She pvp flagged i was not due to disable pvp auto flag setting. Tried to buf her once again the pvp message she did not review the buf. I changed to bard spec.. she stayed pvp flagged and took damage from npc's i cast coda for regen hp and i got heals she did not! i was not pvp flagged!

 

So to main stream mmo's and you do nto pvp flag from aoe!

 

I dare people her to show a main stream mmo that allows for aoe's to pvp flag a pve player.

 

Oh and eq2 its a non issue because on a pve server there is NO pvp in the world! Or at least was that way when i left at the end of ruse of kunark.

 

Its been a while but if memory servers me right it was a non issue in warhammer you had to inter a lake to pvp on pve servers.

 

Daoc none issue since other factions had zero access to the main pve areas.

 

SO 4 main stream in todays and past mmo markets that did not allow for this sort of thing to happen!

[Acererak]

Players standing next to mobs so others will accidentally flag themselves to be ganked. I don't see how this isn't and exploit. They are using dodgy game rules to trick other players so that they can grief them.

[Manathayria]

I think there may actually be an option to make it so no one can force your pvp flag on

 

The big problem is you may get some ****** running into your mobs flagged for pvp waiting for you to hit him with some sort of aoe

 

I would go through the preferences and look if it hasn't been suggested already.

 

There is no such option in ToR right now.

 

Rift has the option to disable flagging unless you specifically type /pvp.

 

WoW simply does not allow you to flag from AoE - though you can 'flag from the blue' if you directly target a flagged character from the other faction to attack. They also allow flag from healing.

[Thompsons]

I got flagged when I grouped with people who had PvP flags on but needed some help on a tough mission. Then some bushwhacker got me when I came out alone, outside the cave the rest of the group was in. I ventured out so a fourth group member player could "see" us on the map and join us.

 

While "dead", I had the distinct pleasure of watching my two new, powerful PvP friends come rushing out when they realized what had happened. They didn't just kill him, but did it by knocking his sorry bushwhacking rear end right off a cliff.

[hushia]

Wow might have changed it, but I remember clearly getting pvp flagged when a hunter used a snake trap. Even if you weren't pvp flagged, the snakes from the trap would attack you, you would defend yourself and then you got flagged and ganked.

I also remember people trying to stand in my aoe when I was leveling my mage. That must have been a year ago or something. So they must have changed it recently.

 

I do agree this is an oversight in Swtor and should be changed. When not pvp flagged, you should not get flagged unintentionally at least on a pve server.

[eSlave]

Can someone tell me how the heck on a PVE server can you become flagged for PVP if a Sith jumps into mobs your killing- 4 levels above my husband and I and it flags us for PVP????

 

I bought this game for PVE where does it say the last stretch to 50 is nothing but a gank fest on a PVE Server???

 

Ok done ranting but someone please explain how the last ten levels work so I can either get a refund on the game that is advertised for PVE??? But it is actually PVP???

 

Thanks

 

This is a stable release but it is very early in its lifecycle and will contain some minor bugs, you have to live with it for some time now.

I presume that you are new to mmos asking this question, which most of us more experienced mmo players already know.

 

Hope my answer was to satisfaction.

Good luck with your gaming, and dont be afraid to ask around here in the "new players" section.

 

We all been there - some time.

Edited January 20, 2012 by eSlave

[Quiet]

Player 1 is pvp flagged.

Player 2 is not pvp flagged.

 

Player 2 attacks Player 1, Player 2 is now pvp flagged.

 

A pvp flagged player standing in your AOE will cause you to be pvp flagged, because the pvp flagged player is being attacked by the AOE attack.

 

In regards to WOW...

I played WOW for 5 years, starting with beta.

This also worked in WOW.

It took about 2 years for Blizzard to change the game mechanics to prevent AOE attacks from non-pvp flagged players to affect pvp flagged players.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Quiet

[Manathayria]

I quit over two years ago and I know the patch keeping you from flagging off aoe was in at least during BC release, and in WoTLK. Hunter traps were a bug that patched within a month....

 

Rift released with the ability to straight disable out of the box.

 

The point isn't that at one time wow had it where you flagged off the aoe - the point is that they corrected this game mechanic to make it more enjoyable for those that chose not to pvp. It is not a complex concept. Rift released with a fix for it already in play. Again, not a difficult concept.

 

We are not - as some have pointed out - in 2004 where gaming companies could claim ignorance on some of the issues with pvp that pve players have. This is one of those irritations (however minor you may personally view it to be) that they should have learned to avoid.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Manathayria

[VarnieTsk]

This is a stable release but it is very early in its lifecycle and will contain some minor bugs, you have to live with it for some time now.

I presume that you are new to mmos asking this question, which most of us more experienced mmo players already know.

 

Hope my answer was to satisfaction.

Good luck with your gaming, and dont be afraid to ask around here in the "new players" section.

 

We all been there - some time.

 

Actually, it has nothing to do with being experienced or not. It has to do with a game mechanic that allows this to happen in the first place. What other games have or don't have is irrelevent.

 

They promoted this game as being pve-centric, story-driven, with pvp for the pvpers. Their description of the pve servers if you mouse over it on the server select screen explicitly states that any pvp will be voluntary.

 

The reality is that the game is very much pvp-centric. Dedicated pvp servers. Pvp on the "pve" servers. And the ability for a player of any level to flag themself in your aoe and/or stand in your aoe while stealthed, and flag you involuntarily on a "PVE" server.

 

Bioware, are we ever going to get an answer to the simple question?? Is this working as intended? I feel we have the right to know the answer so as to make an "informed" decision on whether or not we want to play this game.

 

EDIT: Also, it's irrelevent that the game just came out and will have minor bugs, etc. For one, this isn't minor. Two, this was brought up and argued in beta from what I'm told. So it appears they may not see it as a bug and may not do anything about it at all. If that's the case, they'll be minus my measly little 15 bucks a month.

Edited January 24, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[Kelticfury]

I have to say I love this game but the CS is awful. I am sick of waiting 2 days for a response to a bug report that has nothing to do with what I reported.

 

2 days!?!? You are amazingly lucky. its usually weeks if at all.

I think they use the same rng as the champ bags to answer tickets.

[Darthshnooky]

The reality is that the game is very much pvp-centric. Dedicated pvp servers. Pvp on the "pve" servers. And the ability for a player of any level to flag themself in your aoe and/or stand in your aoe while stealthed, and flag you involuntarily on a "PVE" server.

 

If you actually consider having PvP servers as something that qualifies a game as "pvp-centric" then that's just ridiculous. It's about providing different players with the type of environment and experience they enjoy, not catering to one group over the other. I don't even like PvP servers, but this comment is just absurd.

[Jhu_Liet]

very very wrong as well. Its a PVE server, you should not be able to attack a flagged player if you are not flagged yourself

 

I was unflagged and decided to attack a flagged player. It flagged me, as I expected it would.

 

On a PVE server, it's mostly PVE and PVP is optional.

 

Not sure how the OP got flagged unless she inadvertently clicked on the flagged player (or if it's a bug).

[VarnieTsk]

If you actually consider having PvP servers as something that qualifies a game as "pvp-centric" then that's just ridiculous. It's about providing different players with the type of environment and experience they enjoy, not catering to one group over the other. I don't even like PvP servers, but this comment is just absurd.

 

No, not what I meant at all. Are you deliberately misconstruing what I said so as to lend weight to the argument that it shoudn't get changed?

 

It's not one thing, it's a combination of a lot of things in this game. There are "dedicated" pvp servers, great. I have no problem with that, in fact I applaud it. But there are no "dedicated" pve servers. The so-called pve servers are also pvp servers, just not "dedicated."

 

Ok, fine, whatever. I can live with that as long as it doesn't disrupt my play that I pay for. In their description it says only "voluntary" pvp on the so-called pve servers. But then they also make it where pvpers can force-flag unflagged players against their wishes and even without their knowing what the F is going on.

 

Also, all the nerfing going on is for the pvp balancing, changes getting made to this, that, and the other for (or because of) the pvpers. Sorry but yes, this game is pvp-centric. It's a simple statement and it's "simply" my opinion, which I stand by.

 

Whatever, I don't care. I have RL friends and in-game friends who are pvpers. I just want the simple ability to play the game on a "PVE" server like they promised, without having to worry about if it's safe to use an aoe or let my companion use one.

 

And I want a simple answer from Bioware as to whether this "feature" is working as intended so that I can decide sooner rather than later on whether I'm going to continue playing beyond level 40 or quit the game.

Edited January 24, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[Hanscholo]

Minor issue?

[VarnieTsk]

I was unflagged and decided to attack a flagged player. It flagged me, as I expected it would.

 

On a PVE server, it's mostly PVE and PVP is optional.

 

Not sure how the OP got flagged unless she inadvertently clicked on the flagged player (or if it's a bug).

 

I'm really, really hoping it's a bug or at least unintended. BW has been completely silent on the issue for weeks now.

 

There are numerous other threads but in a nutshell it comes down to that the OP didn't necessarily do anything at all.

 

A player can be flagged and intentionally run into your AOEs and get you flagged, then gank you before you even realize you've been flagged.

 

A player can be unflagged, stand in your AOE range and then flag themselves, etc.

 

Situational awareness is no defense against this in some cases either (for those who keep posting things like "don't use your aoes around flagged players then, dummy" etc). A player can be stealthed and simply run over and stand in your AOEs. Same result.

 

Someone else posted a number of other conceivable ways that this can be exploited for griefing purposes, but as far as I know this is the one that's being most abused.

[blancs]

Wow might have changed it, but I remember clearly getting pvp flagged when a hunter used a snake trap. Even if you weren't pvp flagged, the snakes from the trap would attack you, you would defend yourself and then you got flagged and ganked.

I also remember people trying to stand in my aoe when I was leveling my mage. That must have been a year ago or something. So they must have changed it recently.

 

I do agree this is an oversight in Swtor and should be changed. When not pvp flagged, you should not get flagged unintentionally at least on a pve server.

 

The abuse of the snake trap to grief people was what finally made Blizzard change their pvp flag mechanics, IIRC. You will not get flagged by using aoe near a flagged character in WoW. Now, I left shortly after Cataclysm so maybe they reverted that change too, but I was on a 90% Alliance server and I played Horde. There would have been endless opportunities for griefing if it were as simple as jumping into my aoe, and it never happened to anyone as far as I know.

I do remember flagged players jumping in and out of my aoe hoping that I would slip up and tab target them.

 

In TOR, my husband got flagged accidentally when he wandered into the wrong base. The NPCs ganked him before he could get out, and we laughed about it while we waited for his flag to fade... Then his healer companion put a HoT on me and flagged me too. /facepalm

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I believe Blizzard changed their pvp flag mechs before the snake trap, and that the snake trap was just bugged leading to "hilarious" fun. It was so long ago, I can't really remember - point being it does not work that way in WoW.

Edited January 24, 2012 by blancs