lordniah Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Your guild is full of idiots? I'm sorry but even if it currently gives you the best bonus, it's stupid for a guild to make it mandatory for everyone. The other skills will get buffed eventually (and most likely soon). Plus, who is going to get the rare schematics for other skills that drop when you are all biochem? For example, we got the 33 endurance magenta crystal recipe today (and I imagine the guy who got it is currently doing the Scrooge McDuck dive into a pool filled with credits by now). People who think they need optimal builds and gear to complete raids are just insane. I know I am not an MMO vet, but from the games I have played it has always been the case that the hyper overachievers tended to be the least competent. The key to completing any raid is having good strategy. That is far more important than builds or gear. Edited January 11, 2012 by lordniah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) The key to completing any raid is having good strategy. Not always. Developers commonly put in bosses that are basically just straight up DPS checks (often referred to as gear checks). Minimal strategy, maximum dps fights. Edited January 11, 2012 by Elyree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Bull. Hardcore raiding guilds understand better than anyone else that advantages that are minor when considered individually add up to noticeable differences when applied over the whole raid. They also understand that when raids drop BOE crafting materiels for all different professions they are gimping their potential rewards for raiding completely. Why raid when the 1/8 loot will be equally useful and the 7/8 loot will have to e vendored or stored until someone drops biochem for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonk Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I thought about this when I dropped 400 Armstech, Scavenging, and Investigation... But you know what... An incredibly nerfed medpac that only heals for 2k and is reusable and/or a reusable stim that only gives me a nerfed 100 Aim is still leaps and bounds better than the utterly useless Armstech I had... I have literally hundreds of all Scavenging/Investigation materials in my bank and they are all useless as there is nothing worth crafting... The mastercraft version of the re'd 50 epics isn't even an upgrade over 48 oranges so to hell with it... Armstech is not bad, why do people say so? Did you expect that EVERYONE will be millionnaires with their crafting proffesion maxed? If that happend, people would start complaing that they are not BILLIONAIRES like few of the people. Its capitalism, you make money if you know how to make money. As for my experience: I had armstech when I leveled and always had epic blasters for my level. Great. I sold many of lower level epic blasters on GTN and never lacked money during leveling. Now being 50 for a week or so and I am selling epic blaster pistols, blaster rifles and sniper rifles (play empire) and make heatlhy money everyday on it. I earn about 150-300k a day, plenty enough for repairs, respeccing and hunting for rare items (like +33 crit magneta crystal.. where are you my friend? I would get this big speeder for 1.5mm only if it was a big smaller... Its so big you can get stuck on Ziost shadow narrow corridors, how funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 They also understand that when raids drop BOE crafting materiels for all different professions they are gimping their potential rewards for raiding completely. If the rewards don't lead to something equal to, or better than, some other alternative then those mats are nothing more than vendor trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Your guild is full of idiots? I'm sorry but even if it currently gives you the best bonus, it's stupid for a guild to make it mandatory for everyone. You must be new to mmos. It's perfectly acceptable to require a specific trade skill. In the event that another trade becomes "useful" you can always drop something and level it instead. L2min/max my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 They also understand that when raids drop BOE crafting materiels for all different professions they are gimping their potential rewards for raiding completely. Why raid when the 1/8 loot will be equally useful and the 7/8 loot will have to e vendored or stored until someone drops biochem for it. Why be so smart and think that you absolutely have to keep diplomacy and bioanalysis once biochem is already maxed? All you need is the reusable stim and the med pack and you're good to drop both of your gathering skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicWanderer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I knew it was only a matter of time before this announcement was made in my guild. As it stands, the only crafting profession that brings a noticeable edge to end game progression is Biochem, so having a Rakata medpack/stim and adrenal appropriate to your class is now mandatory for Ops in my guild. I'm going to give it a week or two before dropping Artifice as I figure it'll take about that long to get everything going. Hopefully, by then, Bioware will address this. And note, I certainly don't condone this policy, but this is hardcore raiding for you. I would stand up to my guildmaster/find a new guild if I saw any reason to keep Artifice. As it stands, there's no benefit to having this skill after you hit 50. While that's more of an Artifice issue, maybe, I think Biochem does 'suffer' from being a little too useful... and now, potentially, I might suffer for it too. This is one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. IT IS A GAME, not a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonguy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My suggestion would be that if you want to raid hardcore, ditch the midline raiding guild that is forcing min/maxing on you and find an actual hardcore raiding guild. You'll know when you've found one because they're not easy to get into, it’s not uncommon for ‘members’ to sit as bench warmers until spots open, they have little to no turn over, they have an amazing environment, the majority of their raiding members may min/max but it's not all of them and it's out of choice not requirement, they're at the top of their game, and they do not have elitist arrogant attitudes because they don't have to prove themselves to anyone. Also if you find yourself doing any of this and you are not under 18 ... rethink things a little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorlomin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i agree..but daily income of half a mil...share your wisdom with me sensei Dailies at 50 get you roughly 450k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTFoxhound Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I knew it was only a matter of time before this announcement was made in my guild. As it stands, the only crafting profession that brings a noticeable edge to end game progression is Biochem, so having a Rakata medpack/stim and adrenal appropriate to your class is now mandatory for Ops in my guild. I'm going to give it a week or two before dropping Artifice as I figure it'll take about that long to get everything going. Hopefully, by then, Bioware will address this. And note, I certainly don't condone this policy, but this is hardcore raiding for you. I would stand up to my guildmaster/find a new guild if I saw any reason to keep Artifice. As it stands, there's no benefit to having this skill after you hit 50. While that's more of an Artifice issue, maybe, I think Biochem does 'suffer' from being a little too useful... and now, potentially, I might suffer for it too. no that's not hardcore raiding for you, that's your guild being the way it is for you. find a new guild, I've played many MMO's and was in many end game guilds, not once did they require you to have a profession. if you wanna be around elitist that think you need something to be raiding well that's your decision to stay with them. I can 100% guarantee you there are end game guilds in SWTOR that don't require u to have biochem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erliandur Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You must be new to mmos. It's perfectly acceptable to require a specific trade skill. In the event that another trade becomes "useful" you can always drop something and level it instead. L2min/max my friend. you must have experienced a very sad and moronic bunch of guilds... join guilds that play better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exertim Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) you must have experienced a very sad and moronic bunch of guilds... join guilds that play better! Lol. I've been in world ranked guilds since mid-early EQ (followed by WoW0). Min-maxing is just something I do now. So apparently, guilds that enforce min-max professions (we just made fun of applicants with sub-par tradeskills such as Mining and then deleted them) needs to "play better". Show me a world ranked guild in WoW that doesn't enforce the most optimal enchants, the most optimal tradeskills, or the most optimal gemming. As always, this is a game. You have choices. You don't *need* to join the most crackshot top tier raiding guild on your server, just like how you don't *need* to level Biochem if you're just playing casually. Biochem grants a boost to your character that no other crewskill can provide which is why it's held in such high regards. Edited January 11, 2012 by Exertim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardicon Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 if your guild demands a certain craft to raid then it is a bad guild. dont blame bioware because you got a craphead guild leader. if my guild ever said this id leave in an instant, but i have a good guild and they wont say things like that. they do require you to have your own medpacks, stims or whatever but not a certain crafting profession. anyone, I repeat, anyone can use the blue items, they generally persist through death and last two hours for the stims. adrenals are 15 seconds a pop, hardly something that should be required, you get what 4 ability usages out of them and medpacks can be bought by anyone. besides if your healers dont suck then medpacks should never be used anyway. the only benefit having biochem gives is you can use the reusable stims and medpacks and adrenals but those are hardly required for raiding. you can do just fine with the blue ones. id still find another guild that isnt full of douchebags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Why be so smart and think that you absolutely have to keep diplomacy and bioanalysis once biochem is already maxed? All you need is the reusable stim and the med pack and you're good to drop both of your gathering skills. The gathering skills are irrelevant sir. What good is a grade 6 Bind on Pickup materiel to someone that cannot craft that type of item. Fill a raid with people with people of only one crafting profession and a lot of the epic loot becomes vendor trash untill someone drops biochem and maxes something else. Best idea is to have a few dedicated biochems which the guild feeds materiels in return for crafting them all the blue stims/adrenals they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lol. I've been in world ranked guilds since mid-early EQ (followed by WoW0. Min-maxing is just something I do now. So apparently, guilds that enforce min-max professions (we just made fun of applicants with sub-par tradeskills such as Mining and then deleted them) needs to "play better". Show me a world ranked guild in WoW that doesn't enforce the most optimal enchants, the most optimal tradeskills, or the most optimal gemming. As always, this is a game. You have choices. You don't *need* to join the most crackshot top tier raiding guild on your server, just like how you don't *need* to level Biochem if you're just playing casually. Biochem grants a boost to your character that no other crewskill can provide which is why it's held in such high regards. Pretty much this. I min/max as a matter of habit now. But guilds requiring certain professions, items, talent choices is nothing new and will go on long after this game is a foot note in some gaming history book. Having a Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring was mandatory for raiding with any end game raiding guild in EQ. The great thing about guilds is that they are voluntary participation, you aren't required to join one or stay in your current one. If you don't like what your current guild requires then find another guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellour Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Frankly, I'm kind of glad this thread exists, and that there are these "hardcore" min/maxing guilds out there forcing people to level a Crew Skill they may not love. Why? Because perhaps it will cause Bioware to revisit the other Crew Skills and bring some parity to them at end game. I want to be on even footing with other raiders without being forced into a particular Crew Skill. Don't get me wrong, I like to min/max too, but there needs to be some Crew Skill equity. Hopefully Bioware will see threads like this one, and work a little more quickly to resolve the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluejayoo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 When I found out that to make my level 48 recipes I had to have 3 rare drops that only come from hard flash points or operations I pretty much decided that I had wasted two weeks maxing artificer. I'll probably drop it and take up biochem. It's the only trade skill worth anything. Trade skills in this game are broken beyond definition. I wish they had not put them in at all, at least I would not have wasted a bunch of time and resources for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leilei Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Rakata isnt that much better than blues or even green stims... The main thing they have going for them is reusability. Is having 225 more armor at 10k armor mark really that big of a deal? Is having 30 more of a stat you want and 8 more power really that big of a deal? Especially when you have upwards of 1300 at the point where you are starting to raid? Yes the d00d will spend a lot of money on adrenals. lets face it thats the only thing getting used often and 1 adrenal = cost of 1 blue stim which lasts 2 hours. If youre a tank who needs to keep using rakata med packs then you prolly need to get a better healer or gear. Umm...but yahh... o.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exertim Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 When I found out that to make my level 48 recipes I had to have 3 rare drops that only come from hard flash points or operations I pretty much decided that I had wasted two weeks maxing artificer. I'll probably drop it and take up biochem. It's the only trade skill worth anything. Trade skills in this game are broken beyond definition. I wish they had not put them in at all, at least I would not have wasted a bunch of time and resources for nothing. Assuming you're talking about the alloys, they aren't very rare. In all honesty, the only thing worth making for Artificers right now is the relic (the lightsabers are outclassed by daily hilts). I would make that before dropping it and leveling Biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 When I found out that to make my level 48 recipes I had to have 3 rare drops that only come from hard flash points or operations... The same is true of Biochem. I'm not sure what your complaint here is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is having 30 more of a stat you want and 8 more power really that big of a deal? Especially when you have upwards of 1300 at the point where you are starting to raid? 30 more of a stat when you have 1300 is a 2.3% increase. A 2.3% increase is generally worth it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) So basically what's going to happen is the one artificer left on the server will have the pattern to craft the Magenta Adegan Crystal and start charging several million creds for it, then you'll all complain that it's unfair even though YOU chose to all go for the flavor of the month, 'best' crewskill. Any guild that requires you have a certain profession is not a guild anyone should be in. I am a guild leader, and I think this is a ludicrous expectation and completely unhealthy for the guild. We need a diverse group of skills available to us - yes, we need stims and health packs, etc, but we also need someone to craft the epic drop patterns from Ops too. If all 16 of you in the Ops group are biochem and the pattern to teach a cybertech that mass group teleport thing drops, oh well! Edited January 11, 2012 by Natarii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steww Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If your guild was a good one they would be buying materials and having the biochemists distribute the med packs and the like. However, they seem content to force you into getting the reusable ones so that they don't have to shell out credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BourbonDingo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Excatly as it should be. If you dont like to do endgame at a competetive level. Dont do it Endgame pve content should be damn hard and require a hell of a lot of work outside the the raid or opereation. And it should not be accessable to everyone Whoa there, cowboy. I pay the exact same you do to play this game. I could argue that I actually pay more per hour than you do because I don't get to play all that often, making my money more important, but we'll set that on the back burner to percolate. You have the gall to say that there is content in this game that I should not have access to? Items I'll let you slide on, because I agree that more work should be put in for those 'l33t gearz'; but there shouldn't be a shred of content I don't get to see because I don't have 400 Biochem, or because I don't have the... and this my favorite... gear from the instance I'm wanting to do so I can get the gear from the instance I'm trying to do. That's an endless cycle of stupidity, or a catch-22 if you will. Rewards for achieving certain accomplishments, such as completing a successful raid, should happen and only to those who earned them. But... Content (not items) should be accessible by EVERYONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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