So, when is the biochem nerf coming?

[Quraswren]

Hopefully Bioware is smart enough to not nerf Biochem and buff the others.

 

Hopefully Bioware is smart enough to NOT take the path of least resistance and nerf biochem but take a little more effort and add in reasons to keep and level the other crafting professions.

 

Here's to being hopeful.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Quraswren

[--Grim--]

I would rather they made the other skills just as useful.

 

I want to be an Armormech. I always liked armor crafting in other games because I usually play a tank. I like crafting my own gear, dont even care about the market really. Although it's a nice perk if there is a market for my efforts.

 

But as it stands now Armormech is a useless waste of time. So are the other skills except Biochem (Cybertech has the grenades but that isn't saying much).

 

The whole crew skill system needs to be revamped, along with the commendation vendors and pvp / raid rewards. It's beyond stupid right now how screwed up the itemization is.

 

I expect they will get it fixed, but it better not take too long. In a game as easy to level as SWTOR the Devs don't have a lot of time to get it right, before the players start leaving in disgust.

Edited January 10, 2012 by --Grim--

[PaniMauser]

Why ask for nerf when you can ask to improve all other skills instead? I hate this stupid mindset when people want to ruin something that other people enjoy just because they don't enjoy it or see it as 'unfair'.

 

Also, all other crafting skills are nice while leveling. Till you hit lvl 50 and start getting daily commendations, craftable stuff will be better than most. I think BW made crafted gear useless after lvl50 deliberately, so all raid/pvp-fappers don't complain that some crafter has as good gear as they got from doing raids/matches over 9000 times.

 

I still remember those threads from pre-release. Judging by the polls, majority of people were demanding to make craftable gear worse than raiding stuff, and now everyone is complaining that crafting skills are useless after lvl50. As I see it, people got exactly what they were asking for: nice stuff till you hit your first raid, but useless afterwards. As long as developers cater to raiders/pvpers, crafting gear will be useless after the cap. Happens in every other game.

 

Unfortunately, I'm in the minority that don't enjoy raids/pvp, so I will be very sad if Bio gets nerfed. If the only crafting skill that is useful at lvl50 becomes useless too, then what's the point of crew skills at all? Then the best route will be switching to diplomacy/treasure hunting/slicing for money and gifts for companions, and that's all.

Edited January 10, 2012 by PaniMauser

[ericdjobs]

So your solution is to pay money to the biochemist to be roughly balanced with the biochemist?

 

I'm a biochemist, greatly enjoying my advantage, and even I will admit this proposal of yours is ridiculous.

 

hahahah

 

THis is how crafting is supposed to work.

 

Yes, if you're not biochem you should have to pay to use medpacks and stims. It's an advantage of being biochem.

 

Just like if you're not cybertech you have to pay for mods.

 

If you're not artifice you have to pay for hilts.

 

ETC

 

If you want the same advantage as Biochem, buy stims (They are better than our reusables and last 2 hours) and medpacks. Sure, it will cost some credits.. but credits are easy to come by in this game. There, suddenly you are JUST as effective as someone with biochem.

[Gwal]

hahahah

 

THis is how crafting is supposed to work.

 

Yes, if you're not biochem you should have to pay to use medpacks and stims. It's an advantage of being biochem.

 

Just like if you're not cybertech you have to pay for mods.

 

If you're not artifice you have to pay for hilts.

 

ETC

 

If you want the same advantage as Biochem, buy stims (They are better than our reusables and last 2 hours) and medpacks. Sure, it will cost some credits.. but credits are easy to come by in this game. There, suddenly you are JUST as effective as someone with biochem.

 

Sorry mate but that's far too reasonable. People would rather come to the forum and spam the N-word than think and learn how things work.

[marshalleck]

hahahah

 

THis is how crafting is supposed to work.

 

Yes, if you're not biochem you should have to pay to use medpacks and stims. It's an advantage of being biochem.

 

Just like if you're not cybertech you have to pay for mods.

 

If you're not artifice you have to pay for hilts.

 

ETC

 

If you want the same advantage as Biochem, buy stims (They are better than our reusables and last 2 hours) and medpacks. Sure, it will cost some credits.. but credits are easy to come by in this game. There, suddenly you are JUST as effective as someone with biochem.

 

The point, which you missed, is that it's not a "L2P" issue. It's that the other crew skills need to be as useful in their own ways as Biochem.

 

Saying "it's fine, just pay the biochemist for the same advantage he enjoys" is only going to lead in one direction--a whole bunch of people taking biochem on their own. Which is exactly what's happening. That's what made the original post I was responding to useless.

Edited January 10, 2012 by marshalleck

[PaniMauser]

Also, just got another idea how to make other skills useful after the cap, in a way reusables are useful to Bios. Just allow crafters to repair the gear they wear. I mean, not all of it, but only things that are appropriate to their craft.

 

For example, it would be nice if armormechs could repair the armor they wear, armstech could repair their own weapon etc. After all, if they can make it, why can't they fix it? Biochems are saving creds on healing and buff reusables, all other crafters could save on repairs. And it would make it worth to keep the profession you have in a long run.

[LordQbical]

You have a hutt avatar, I dont.

 

You need to be nerfed.

 

um, what? let me guess, you want avatars nerfed now too? lol

Edited January 10, 2012 by LordQbical

[joeypesci]

Does it really need a nerf or should vendor consumables just be cheaper?

 

Well making the med and stims reusable makes it pretty pointless. A person needs to buy one of each and then never buy again. So there is no market in it at all.

[Purlana]

<sarcasm>

Let's make this game a nerf all back to basic mmo.

 

We all have 1 basis atk skill hitting for 1 point each.

We all have 1000 hp max.

We all have 1 basic craft skill.

We all have 1 basic armor.

We all have minimum 60ms because all those ppl with good specs/connections/updated need nerf.

We all have maximum 20 fps because all those ppl with good specs/connections/updated need nerf.

 

Then we're all happy aye ?

</sarcasm>

 

Actually that's what crew skills are going to look like if nothing is done...

 

Because everyone will have biochem >.<

[Llenyd]

The only thing stopping me from switching to biochem is that I know as soon as I hit 400, Bioware will slice its power in half. I'm going on vacation for a couple weeks and will see where things sit when I return. If there aren't any major changes announced/discussed, then I will be picking it up.

[Squiddish]

Anyone who thinks Biochem should be nerfed rather than buffing the other crew skills to not be useless needs to stop posting.

[Shatteredstar]

Anyone who thinks Biochem should be nerfed rather than buffing the other crew skills to not be useless needs to stop posting.

 

Bears repeating so much.

[PaniMauser]

Well making the med and stims reusable makes it pretty pointless. A person needs to buy one of each and then never buy again. So there is no market in it at all.

 

If you're not Biochem, you can't use reusables. They are skill-locked. Oh, if reusables could be usable by anyone, then I would switch to cybertech for that BoP custom speedster.

[mackgt]

The point, which you missed, is that it's not a "L2P" issue. It's that the other crew skills need to be as useful in their own ways as Biochem.

 

Saying "it's fine, just pay the biochemist for the same advantage he enjoys" is only going to lead in one direction--a whole bunch of people taking biochem on their own. Which is exactly what's happening. That's what made the original post I was responding to useless.

 

No the point is that instead of being part of the solution, you are being part of the problem. Biochem is fine, instead of knocking it down you should see ways to improve on your crew skills and make suggestions to Bioware (since they listen with enough whiners as seen in slicing nerf).

 

Nerfing it to be useless as the others will just make the game worse (might make you feel better about yourself now that everyone is miserable as you..called the crab mentality). Be productive and don't put other skills down but try to bring yours up. Haters going to hate.

[Journeyer]

Opinion, feel free to explain my mistake:

 

The only thing Biochem has going for it is that the medpacks can be used as an in-combat revive. That is sort of massively desirable.

 

As I understand it, the rest is semantics. Bios get stims and medpacks that are not quite the highest level available, but are infinite. To my mind, that's pretty fair, given the cost of lvling the skill.

 

It's the new game mechanic that throws it off, to my mind. If I lvl artifice to 400, does my saber turn into a saberwhip and hit 9 enemies at a time? Far as I know, i just get...really good saber parts.

 

Getting a reusable medpack is like a really good saber part. Getting an in-combat revive skill is like getting a saberwhip. Maybe?

 

So, no "nerfing." Tiny revision, or add a new mechanic onto the high-level other crafts. Yah?

[Quraswren]

Anyone who thinks Biochem should be nerfed rather than buffing the other crew skills to not be useless needs to stop posting.

 

IF thats the only way bioware can balance the professions so be it. It's terrible to think that Bioware could take the road of least resistance and just nerf it but something has to happen.

 

 

Sadly the easiest thing would be to nerf one skill than buff all the others. What will Bioware do? God only knows but they better do something as the current state of professions can only hurt the game overall.

 

I'd rather have things balanced even in uselessness then have one that is a clear winner above everything else by far. At least then you could choose what you wanted just cause you like it and not cause of a clear benefit that only ONE profession gives.

 

And I don't think Biochem is OP or offers too much benefit but if you compare it to all other professions, it offers way more. Biochem just has a monopoly on being useful.

 

I hope they don't nerf it but take the harder route and buff the usefulness of all the others.

[AMKSED]

I wish people would realize slicing got nerfed because people were making money from the MISSIONS and not the actual CRAFTING.

[Chaosmagistrate]

Opinion, feel free to explain my mistake:

 

The only thing Biochem has going for it is that the medpacks can be used as an in-combat revive. That is sort of massively desirable.

 

As I understand it, the rest is semantics. Bios get stims and medpacks that are not quite the highest level available, but are infinite. To my mind, that's pretty fair, given the cost of lvling the skill.

 

It's the new game mechanic that throws it off, to my mind. If I lvl artifice to 400, does my saber turn into a saberwhip and hit 9 enemies at a time? Far as I know, i just get...really good saber parts.

 

Getting a reusable medpack is like a really good saber part. Getting an in-combat revive skill is like getting a saberwhip. Maybe?

 

So, no "nerfing." Tiny revision, or add a new mechanic onto the high-level other crafts. Yah?

 

Unfortunately, all the "good" saber parts are overshadowed by dailies rewards, and most of the high end gear comes with better item mods than any crafter can make. Biochem is not overpowered. It's just the only profession that provides endgame functionality versus the other professions which provide either cosmetic or lvl1-49 gear updating, or in Cybertechs case - aesthetic speeders, space mission assistance, and bombs(which are the only things worthwhile in the endgame)

 

Something to consider would be to introduce Crafter-specific mods which have sufficient similarities like (6k HP medpack over 90s) would equate to like a crafter-specific item mod that provides 600 extra HP, a relic that provides say 750 Surge instead of the 350ish that the PvP relics give. And then a item mod that gives +60ish extra one stat. Kind of like what they did with Engineering in WoW. It seems like a cop-out to just give out mod-based "buffs" which are the exact same effect as Biochem buffs, but it's really difficult to balance consumables versus permanent stat item boosts.

[PaniMauser]

Opinion, feel free to explain my mistake:

 

The only thing Biochem has going for it is that the medpacks can be used as an in-combat revive. That is sort of massively desirable.

 

As I understand it, the rest is semantics. Bios get stims and medpacks that are not quite the highest level available, but are infinite. To my mind, that's pretty fair, given the cost of lvling the skill.

 

It's the new game mechanic that throws it off, to my mind. If I lvl artifice to 400, does my saber turn into a saberwhip and hit 9 enemies at a time? Far as I know, i just get...really good saber parts.

 

Getting a reusable medpack is like a really good saber part. Getting an in-combat revive skill is like getting a saberwhip. Maybe?

 

So, no "nerfing." Tiny revision, or add a new mechanic onto the high-level other crafts. Yah?

 

You are talking about med-units, not med-packs. You can use med-units for in-combat revive of your companions only, not other players. Revived companions have just a tiny bit of health, not full bar and you can't use medpack for yourself, as it shares CD with med-unit.

 

It is only useful in the situations when the boss has little health and you have little health too, so chances are you get killed before the boss dies, Than you revive companion for distraction, and that's all. In all other situations it is useless. If boss has little health and you have plenty, no need to revive companion, you can finish the fight alone, and if t is vice-versa, revived companion won't help anyway.

 

And in groups med-unit is useless, as you can't revive other players.

 

So, your comparison with a weapon that takes out nine enemies at once is very incorrect.

[Journeyer]

Unfortunately, all the "good" saber parts are overshadowed by dailies rewards, and most of the high end gear comes with better item mods than any crafter can make. Biochem is not overpowered. It's just the only profession that provides endgame functionality versus the other professions which provide either cosmetic or lvl1-49 gear updating, or in Cybertechs case - aesthetic speeders, space mission assistance, and bombs(which are the only things worthwhile in the endgame)

 

Something to consider would be to introduce Crafter-specific mods which have sufficient similarities like (6k HP medpack over 90s) would equate to like a crafter-specific item mod that provides 600 extra HP, a relic that provides say 750 Surge instead of the 350ish that the PvP relics give. And then a item mod that gives +60ish extra one stat. Kind of like what they did with Engineering in WoW. It seems like a cop-out to just give out mod-based "buffs" which are the exact same effect as Biochem buffs, but it's really difficult to balance consumables versus permanent stat item boosts.

 

Mmm. I've noticed that too--I'm only lvl 42 atm, but rewards from FPs, Dailies, and Commendation vendors are always ahead of my crafting rewards.

 

Now you're thinking, though!~ Mega off-stats and the like might do a nice trick for consumables, as they'd give the player options to specialize gear sets towards particular types of needs in a meaningful way. That'd be neat!

 

I see what you mean about the difficulty of adding buffs as part of gear, but maybe in a creative way? So, for example, a saber crystal that isn't quite as beefy in stats as a top operation reward, but has a bonus stat in other ways? Ex: Crystal "reduces cooldown on Force Breach by 5s when assuming a Force Technique" or somesuch.

 

That'd give the player options between maxing stats or crafting for specific play-style decisions~~

 

EDIT: PaniMauser--thank you I knew I must be missing something

Edited January 10, 2012 by Journeyer

[TumblerSW]

I think the re-useable part of the med pack needs to be removed. I think you should have to craft items that you use same as everyone else. I'd love to craft an armor plate for my orange armor and never have to repair it or get to remove it for free but I have to pay to keep it maintained and move it if I want to use it elsewhere.

 

Once you make the med packs consumable then biochem crafters will actually have to start making more of these and maybe we'll see a larger supply go into the market!

 

And they're listed under a section called Consumables on the GTN. I think they should nerf the re-useables down to consumed on use.

[L-RANDLE]

Opinion, feel free to explain my mistake:

 

The only thing Biochem has going for it is that the medpacks can be used as an in-combat revive. That is sort of massively desirable.

 

As I understand it, the rest is semantics. Bios get stims and medpacks that are not quite the highest level available, but are infinite. To my mind, that's pretty fair, given the cost of lvling the skill.

 

It's the new game mechanic that throws it off, to my mind. If I lvl artifice to 400, does my saber turn into a saberwhip and hit 9 enemies at a time? Far as I know, i just get...really good saber parts.

 

Getting a reusable medpack is like a really good saber part. Getting an in-combat revive skill is like getting a saberwhip. Maybe?

 

So, no "nerfing." Tiny revision, or add a new mechanic onto the high-level other crafts. Yah?

 

 

There is no item that is an "in-combat" revive. What you are referring to is a skill obtain by a certain class. There are med-units/med-pack that can provide you and your companion with HP while in combat, but nothing really close to the total max HP you can have.

 

There was also some people saying the reusable paks cooldown is independent from the consumable ones. [Mike Gundy voice] "THAT'S NOT TRUE!" Once you hit a medpak, all other are on the same cooldown cycle reusable or not.

 

I am a LVL 35 Sage and being a Biochem major is a necessity since our HP is lower than most of the other classes, but that aside, sounds like the nerfing cry is because we save on consumables. Yeah, I might not need to constantly buy meds or stims, but I need to buy armor, and mods and weapons. Its pretty much vice-versa for other professions, so we are back to square one..... *** are we talking about here? Oh yeah, post 50 professions. I could possibly see the post 50 complaints, but they should be with your own profession, not M-A-Triple D that you can't make anything worth selling (plus I question whether ANYTHING is really selling right now). This thread is full of nerf-turd...

 

Don't hate the player; Hate the game.

[PagingCraig]

 

The game is new. The crew skills will always be evolving. Biochem is the "it" crew skill this month, next month it will probably be something else.

 

Can we please stop these stupid threads now?

 

Why would it be different if nothing is going to change....really...think about what you just said.

[DGolubets]

I feel sorry, but with the current state I'm forced to drop my crew skills and lvl biochem. And all other players will do the same probably. When BW see all have biochem they will nerf it. It's inevitable.