Taugrim's Guide to Bounty Hunter Powertech Mechanics and PVP

[AnteError]

Just watched your Vids and read the great PT guide. Made my PVP experiences go from completely maddening to insanely fun. Thanks Man!

[oOEggmanOo]

I've thought about doing what you suggested above for the same reasons, but I didn't get around to trying it.

 

With 2/3 in PPA you're basically reducing the proc rate of the cooldown reset for RS by 33%, but that is as you pointed out partially addressed by the proc reset for RP.

 

Thanks for the reply Tau', this is the spec i normally run with, Spec:. As you can see i have taken a fare amount of the Tank class talents, just because i enjoy feeling like a tank. With all cooldowns it makes me feel pretty tough even without a healer about and makes ball carrying lovely, even through flames if needs must. I'll explain a few things for my choices.

 

I didn't take Oil slick, as i found that it was very situational for the way i was playing, due to me kiting a lot, i was never really in the same spot for it to be of an advantage, plus i hardly ever do any PvE content either. I liked the idea of hardly any armour being available to resist my Rail Shot, which is why i went with the Pyro tree. The Incendary Missile is invaluable as far as i'm concerned. Mainly for its dot effect which i can launch from range and has helped me save many a node/door cap while i concentrate on other people.

 

I love being able to jump in with Jet Charge, RP, FB/FS then kite around and i have usually got an RS by then come up, so i'm back to kiting around and with the dot effect of Inc Miss, Rail Shot is always ready to be used.

 

I realise using the Pyro tree i am missing out on some good tanking talents from AP tree, but my playstyle dictated my choices, i.e. usually at range running around.

 

As you can see, it's not a million miles off the CP build and i was looking for some extra damage and the only way i could see it happening was to get some extra procs of RS. I never top damage charts with my build, but prot charts i'm there

 

Edit: spelling mistakes.

Edited February 17, 2012 by oOEggmanOo

[taugrimtaugrim]

Thanks for the reply Tau', this is the spec i normally run with, Spec:. As you can see i have taken a fare amount of the Tank class talents, just because i enjoy feeling like a tank. With all cooldowns it makes me feel pretty tough even without a healer about and makes ball carrying lovely, even through flames if needs must. I'll explain a few things for my choices.

 

I didn't take Oil slick, as i found that it was very situational for the way i was playing, due to me kiting a lot, i was never really in the same spot for it to be of an advantage, plus i hardly ever do any PvE content either. I liked the idea of hardly any armour being available to resist my Rail Shot, which is why i went with the Pyro tree. The Incendary Missile is invaluable as far as i'm concerned. Mainly for its dot effect which i can launch from range and has helped me save many a node/door cap while i concentrate on other people.

 

I love being able to jump in with Jet Charge, RP, FB/FS then kite around and i have usually got an RS by then come up, so i'm back to kiting around and with the dot effect of Inc Miss, Rail Shot is always ready to be used.

 

I realise using the Pyro tree i am missing out on some good tanking talents from AP tree, but my playstyle dictated my choices, i.e. usually at range running around.

 

As you can see, it's not a million miles off the CP build and i was looking for some extra damage and the only way i could see it happening was to get some extra procs of RS. I never top damage charts with my build, but prot charts i'm there

 

Edit: spelling mistakes.

 

A few points of feedback:

 

1. 2/2 Shield Vents became more valuable in 1.1.4 given the nerf to Surge and the longer fight durations. You want to proc the vent and get the internal 6 sec cooldown ticking ASAP. I dropped the point in Oil Slick to get the second in SV.

 

But then again you already have 2/2 GAJ. If you find yourself maxing out on heat, having both talents would help a lot.

 

2. IMO the stopping points for Pyrotech as a secondary tree are 2, 11, or 18. If you stop at 15 you are missing the points to reset the cooldown of Rail Shot. This is the reason people go 23/0/18 aka Carolina Parakeet. It makes a ton of sense

[oOEggmanOo]

A few points of feedback:

 

1. 2/2 Shield Vents became more valuable in 1.1.4 given the nerf to Surge and the longer fight durations. You want to proc the vent and get the internal 6 sec cooldown ticking ASAP. I dropped the point in Oil Slick to get the second in SV.

 

But then again you already have 2/2 GAJ. If you find yourself maxing out on heat, having both talents would help a lot.

 

2. IMO the stopping points for Pyrotech as a secondary tree are 2, 11, or 18. If you stop at 15 you are missing the points to reset the cooldown of Rail Shot. This is the reason people go 23/0/18 aka Carolina Parakeet. It makes a ton of sense

 

Top tips, cheers, will try out the Parakeet spec as it's pretty much what im already with, just now wondering what my defenseive capabilities are going to feel like. I've yet to try out Iron Fist spec, but as you say, thats up in your face alot more than i feel my actual run around playstyle is, but does look to gain some good defensives.

 

I noticed in your IF Spec you dont take rebraced armour, even as a filler, why is that? Is not 16% armour rating a large enough increase?

Edited February 17, 2012 by oOEggmanOo

[Havvtor]

Great thread you guys have going here, some really good info. First i want to ask which cell are you guys running with the Carolina Parakeet build, as i am a 50 Vanguard and a 20 BH. Second is there much of a dps difference between the iron fist (which i am running now and just love) and the Carolina Parakeet,or is it just more of a range deal. Also which pvp set would work best for the Carolina Parakeet?. Thanks Taugrim these are great guide's and really usefull threads running on both the Vanguard and Power Tech boards.

 

Lyss

Edited February 17, 2012 by Havvtor

[Umpire]

Great thread you guys have going here, some really good info. First i want to ask which cell are you guys running with the Carolina Parakeet build, as i am a 50 Vanguard and a 20 BH. Second is there much of a dps difference between the iron fist (which i am running now and just love) and the Carolina Parakeet,or is it just more of a range deal. Also which pvp set would work best for the Carolina Parakeet?. Thanks Taugrim these are great guide's and really usefull threads running on both the Vanguard and Power Tech boards.

 

Lyss

 

 

 

Parakeet is usually using ion to make use of guard, but occasionally you can swap if you're all alone. Parakeet is a more offensive than Iron fist, but iron fist is a little more defensive with the 2% damage reduction. As parakeet i'm using the supercommando set with all of the Surge mods/enhancements from the dps gloves. This works for me cause I guard a lot, but some people seem to going after the merc dps gear, the one with the 15% increased rail shot crit chance. I like my supercommando stuff though, cause i usually run with friends and i always use guard.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Umpire

[taugrimtaugrim]

Parakeet is a more offensive than Iron fist, but iron fist is a little more defensive with the 2% damage reduction.

 

Iron Fist typically has 4% more mitigation than Carolina Parakeet, unless you are skipping No Escape which is a no-no IMO.

 

Every % point you get from talents for mitigation increases the value of mitigation, as I've documented elsewhere:

Without points in the two 2% mitigation talents, my mitigation against Energy and Kinetic attacks is 45.5% from Armor and the tanking stance, so I suffer 54.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

With Iron Fist, the mitigation increases to 49.5%, so I suffer 50.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

Which means that a non-IF tank spec is going to take 7.9% (4 / 50.5) more damage than an IF build. The difference is significant and very noticeable in PVP.

 

By the same token, the damage that a non-IF spec takes from Elemental and Internal damage compared to an IF spec is > 4%.

 

I.e. non-IF in tank stance has 5% mitigation against those damage types, and IF has 9%. So 95 damage taken vs 91 damage taken, or an increase of 4.4%.

 

When you factor in the +10% mitigation buff from Sorcs / Sages, the gap between non-IF and IF tank specs widens to 4.9% (4 / 81).

[taugrimtaugrim]

Updated the specs for Iron Fist 25/14/2 and Carolina Parakeet 21/2/18:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#specs

 

In both cases, basically I made sure to max out Shield Vents, given the longer time-to-kill with the nerf to Surge Rating in 1.1.3. "Mana" regen is now more important than it was previously, as combat outcomes take longer to resolve.

[Umpire]

Iron Fist typically has 4% more mitigation than Carolina Parakeet, unless you are skipping No Escape which is a no-no IMO.

 

That's exactly what I just said pal

[DareDelvis]

I have been following the threads in the BH and Trooper forums and wnt to say thanks to all of you that have contributed to and enhanced my gaming experience; special thanks to you, Tau.

 

I have enjoyed the iron Fist build but am getting broke respec'ing to dps for flashpoints. I have been using the 4/6/31 assault spec to save coin but feel so much more squishy without noticing appreciable overal damage increases. This may be due in part to my gear - mostly centurion level.

 

I ran the parakeet a bit recently. My question is what are your (everyone's) thoughts on a build that delivers decent pve dps with pvp survivability? The parakeet seemed okay switching to plasma for pve...

 

Thanks in advance,

DD

 

 

 

Ps look forward to the spec with storm and AP (yes, I'm a Vanguard) and (yes, I'm kidding)

 

Pps I hope we get the ability to dual spec in the not too distant future. I know there are differing opinions

Edited February 18, 2012 by DareDelvis

[Dharagada]

I'm pretty sure they've announced dual spec for patch 1.2, so hopefully not much longer.

[drwranck]

hey there Taugrim and all,

 

i just respeced to Carolina Parakeet from a full ST spec and i must say that so far i love it! I'm currently level 47 with mostly tank gear setup (no pvp gear) and i'd like to know how you gear up your Parakeet for PvE...

 

do you follow the dps road of aim > endurance > accuracy > crit = power > surge ?

 

or the tanking setup of endurance > aim > accuracy > shield > defense > power > crit >*surge ? or a different combination at all ?

 

 

All i've read so far is take this Rataki or this Columni or this Champion or Eliminator set.... but i'm not 50 yet and what i really want to know is the stats i need to be able to tank HM FPs without gimping my dps. I'm pretty sure i'll need to build 2 sets of armor for PvE and PvP, but i mostly plan on doing PvE.

 

Thanks all for your input!

[LordExozone]

I've been playing as a full Pyrotech from 10 - 50. Now I want to test some different specs, the Iron Fist spec seems like fun, but I'd also like to try the hybrid spec so I can keep some burst yet also increase my survivability a bit which at full pyro is rather lacking (which is good, considering the extreme damage it puts out)

 

Now I saw the most popular one being the 1/22/18 spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3010zZMsMrorckZfhMbdh.1)

In this one you use Combustible Gas, and I was wondering how it relates to the 0/23/18 spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301ZMsMRRrckZbIbMdh.1) where you use High Energy Gas.

 

How good is the +15% passive movement speed + passive heat venting + increased internal/elemental from the latter spec compared to the 50% snare & dot from the former spec?

[Orsian]

Iron Fist is without a doubt, an awesome spec. However, one caveat, you will get beat down by people with more expertise gear than you because of it's 'In Your Face' nature.

 

At least that will happen until you get a full set of pvp gear yourself.

 

 

I used Iron Fist up to my first dozen or so level 50 war zones. It's good, I made a few kills and contributed to a few wins. I switched over to pyrotech and back into a 10m kiting playstyle, stunning and rooting to pull off my Rocket Punches and so far I feel much more effective on the field.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsZfhMrzGhMM.1

 

It's a pretty straightforward pyro build, I went for added tech crit as much as possible to feed my Rail Shots. I revolve this build round proccing a free rail shot, so the rotation typically goes 'IM' 'RS' 'FB' 'RS' 'RP' 'RS (if up)' while kiting in and out of RP distance and FB distance.

 

Anyways, 3 pieces centurion gear, chest, legs and hands, so far and this skill/gear set is working pretty nice for me. Let me know some of what you think.

[Varicite]

I just killed a trooper named Taugrim a few times last night in Voidstar.

 

Hmmmm.

 

I assumed it was an imposter.

[Umpire]

Surge cap is 250, or 30%. What's the crit cap?

[taugrimtaugrim]

I have been following the threads in the BH and Trooper forums and wnt to say thanks to all of you that have contributed to and enhanced my gaming experience; special thanks to you, Tau.

 

I have enjoyed the iron Fist build but am getting broke respec'ing to dps for flashpoints. I have been using the 4/6/31 assault spec to save coin but feel so much more squishy without noticing appreciable overal damage increases. This may be due in part to my gear - mostly centurion level.

 

I ran the parakeet a bit recently. My question is what are your (everyone's) thoughts on a build that delivers decent pve dps with pvp survivability? The parakeet seemed okay switching to plasma for pve...

 

Neither IF nor CP is intended to be used as a PVE DPS spec.

 

You can tank HM FP's with IF - I've done them all, and I assume you can probably do them with CP as well, but you will take a bit more damage and not have as good interrupt capability (not an issue if you have an MDPS).

 

I've been playing as a full Pyrotech from 10 - 50. Now I want to test some different specs, the Iron Fist spec seems like fun, but I'd also like to try the hybrid spec so I can keep some burst yet also increase my survivability a bit which at full pyro is rather lacking (which is good, considering the extreme damage it puts out)

 

Now I saw the most popular one being the 1/22/18 spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3010zZMsMrorckZfhMbdh.1)

In this one you use Combustible Gas, and I was wondering how it relates to the 0/23/18 spec (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301ZMsMRRrckZbIbMdh.1) where you use High Energy Gas.

 

How good is the +15% passive movement speed + passive heat venting + increased internal/elemental from the latter spec compared to the 50% snare & dot from the former spec?

 

I think you have the wrong links for both of those specs.

 

People typically run the Combustible Gas Cylinder with 1/22/18 or 0/23/18 for the DoT effect, chain-snare capability, and so you don't waste points in Pyrotech.

 

i just respeced to Carolina Parakeet from a full ST spec and i must say that so far i love it! I'm currently level 47 with mostly tank gear setup (no pvp gear) and i'd like to know how you gear up your Parakeet for PvE...

 

do you follow the dps road of aim > endurance > accuracy > crit = power > surge ?

 

or the tanking setup of endurance > aim > accuracy > shield > defense > power > crit >*surge ? or a different combination at all ?

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#stats

 

Surge cap is 250, or 30%. What's the crit cap?

 

Surge cap is actually lower IMO, somewhere around 200 or 20%.

 

Even 450 Surge will not get you to 80% since the 1.1.3 change.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Iron Fist is without a doubt, an awesome spec. However, one caveat, you will get beat down by people with more expertise gear than you because of it's 'In Your Face' nature.

 

IF is a solid spec. I've heard the opposite from people - the native 9% mitigation helps people right when they ding 50. YMMV.

 

 

 

I switched over to pyrotech and back into a 10m kiting playstyle, stunning and rooting to pull off my Rocket Punches and so far I feel much more effective on the field.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsZfhMrzGhMM.1

 

It's a pretty straightforward pyro build, I went for added tech crit as much as possible to feed my Rail Shots. I revolve this build round proccing a free rail shot, so the rotation typically goes 'IM' 'RS' 'FB' 'RS' 'RP' 'RS (if up)' while kiting in and out of RP distance and FB distance.

 

Anyways, 3 pieces centurion gear, chest, legs and hands, so far and this skill/gear set is working pretty nice for me. Let me know some of what you think.

 

Yea there are a lot of Pyrotech-based specs people run with (from left-to-right):

8/8/25

8/6/27

4/6/31

 

There has been a lot of debate about whether going 8 points into the tank tree to get the 9% Aim bonus is worth not taking Thermal Detonator and the talents to get to 30 points in the PT tree.

 

Without a Combat Log, we can't conclusively say. Although TD packs a wallop when it crits.

[Umpire]

 

 

 

Surge cap is actually lower IMO, somewhere around 200 or 20%.

 

Even 450 Surge will not get you to 80% since the 1.1.3 change.

 

Didn't answer the question

[Cempa]

What kind of burst at BM gear level can you regularly pull off?

[taugrimtaugrim]

Didn't answer the question

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#stats

[KangasCollective]

I have to say Thanks again Taugrim for all your specs and blog which I refer to and paste links to regularly.

My interest in playing Swtor and non-force using classes was fueled by that very early level 16 Commando Huttball video of yours. I got to 50 with the "run-and-gun" spec which I have enjoyed but always felt I lacked in both durability and punch. I've been off-tanking PVE hard mode ops with it knowing that it's not the right spec for that job...

 

So last night I finally respec'd to Iron Fist and at the same time scraped together a combination of champ/cent gear to get the combat tech crit bonus. That combination of the IF respec and the crit bonus made me gloriously happy and fed me Warzone wins all night.

 

Even if Iron Fist pales in DPS vs some other specs I immediately felt like I was doing better by virtue of staying alive longer. More kills went down and gave me credit than previously. Certain pvp classes that used to outlive me went down. Occasionally that was even due to spam interrupt of their skills

It *felt* like I was doing more dps vs run-and-gun. I got most kills and top 2 dps a couple of those wins. (I have a mix of several champ /centurion and rakata/columni with my 4 pvp bonus using 2 champ and 2 cent pieces.

 

The 2 big concerns I have will be:

1) Pvp - Losing that Incindiary missle to trigger Rail Shots and slightly lower dps on RS. Hopefully jet charge will make up that difference.

2) Pve Hard modes - Whether I can contribute enough to dps vs. Enrage timers. Heat management should be fine with those latest shield vent point changes. I have rakata/columni combat tech 4 piece and a supercommando 2 piece to play with. I am curious when I'll be able to get away with wearing the 4 piece pvp combat tech set in these 8 man ops.

[taugrimtaugrim]

I have to say Thanks again Taugrim for all your specs and blog which I refer to and paste links to regularly.

My interest in playing Swtor and non-force using classes was fueled by that very early level 16 Commando Huttball video of yours. I got to 50 with the "run-and-gun" spec which I have enjoyed but always felt I lacked in both durability and punch. I've been off-tanking PVE hard mode ops with it knowing that it's not the right spec for that job...

 

So last night I finally respec'd to Iron Fist and at the same time scraped together a combination of champ/cent gear to get the combat tech crit bonus. That combination of the IF respec and the crit bonus made me gloriously happy and fed me Warzone wins all night.

 

Even if Iron Fist pales in DPS vs some other specs I immediately felt like I was doing better by virtue of staying alive longer. More kills went down and gave me credit than previously. Certain pvp classes that used to outlive me went down. Occasionally that was even due to spam interrupt of their skills

It *felt* like I was doing more dps vs run-and-gun. I got most kills and top 2 dps a couple of those wins. (I have a mix of several champ /centurion and rakata/columni with my 4 pvp bonus using 2 champ and 2 cent pieces.

 

While IF is definitely *not* a DPS spec, but you can put up consistently good numbers in warzones. I'm typically top 3 or so in damage in Voidstar, and that's as a tank.

 

The 2 big concerns I have will be:

1) Pvp - Losing that Incindiary missle to trigger Rail Shots and slightly lower dps on RS. Hopefully jet charge will make up that difference.

2) Pve Hard modes - Whether I can contribute enough to dps vs. Enrage timers. Heat management should be fine with those latest shield vent point changes. I have rakata/columni combat tech 4 piece and a supercommando 2 piece to play with. I am curious when I'll be able to get away with wearing the 4 piece pvp combat tech set in these 8 man ops.

 

1. You can RS right after Charge -> Rocket Punch. The force-proc of the tank stance from RP will open up RS, and this is an in-your-face spec

2. I have tanked the 7 HM FPs with it no problem, but for PVE DPS I'll switch to another spec

[robryck]

Hi

 

thx a lot for every info you give.

 

First, i apologise for my bad english.

 

My question is:

Is there a viable st/proto viable?

 

Why?

Cause i'm playing with 3 friends.My role is dps when we areplaying together.

But when i'm leveling, i have trouble to find groups as dps.

So i'm looking for a hybrid spec to be able to tank heroic quest (h2 and h4) and able to

dps when i'm playing with my friends.

 

I just want to be a viable tank and dps not the best dps.

I'm 32 now.

Can you give me some advice?

Is it viable to havee a deep AP's tree or something like that?

Or Iron fist spec is viable to dps a minimum to make my job?

 

Regards

[taugrimtaugrim]

Hi

 

thx a lot for every info you give.

 

First, i apologise for my bad english.

 

My question is:

Is there a viable st/proto viable?

 

Why?

Cause i'm playing with 3 friends.My role is dps when we areplaying together.

But when i'm leveling, i have trouble to find groups as dps.

So i'm looking for a hybrid spec to be able to tank heroic quest (h2 and h4) and able to

dps when i'm playing with my friends.

 

I just want to be a viable tank and dps not the best dps.

I'm 32 now.

Can you give me some advice?

Is it viable to havee a deep AP's tree or something like that?

Or Iron fist spec is viable to dps a minimum to make my job?

 

Regards

 

ST/Prot (e.g. Iron Fist) is a tank spec not DPS spec. You should have no problem tanking flashpoints while leveling, and it has worked fine for Hard Mode Flashpoints.