Taugrim's Guide to Bounty Hunter Powertech Mechanics and PVP

[cdstephen]

For a PvE advanced prototype spec, you need serrated blades and charged gauntlets. This is because the other abilities you *could* take like Stabilized Armor, Kolto Vents, and Prototype Electric Surge are useless in most PvE situations. For a PvP advanced prototype spec though, I do agree that Serrated Blades and Charged Gauntlets are more or less useless compared to the other talents.

 

Edit: Woops, didn't notice you put "for PvP" in your talent tree analysis. I pretty much agree with you then, and I agree with you completely on your advanced prototype PvP spec.

Edited January 10, 2012 by cdstephen

[taugrimtaugrim]

Edit: Woops, didn't notice you put "for PvP" in your talent tree analysis. I pretty much agree with you then, and I agree with you completely on your advanced prototype PvP spec.

 

Yea I tried to delineate info for PVP and for PVE in the Guide wherever possible. Hopefully it's clear.

 

Thanks for looking through the Guide!

[masakariR]

Flame sweep - useless...eh

One of the best abiities when specced for it in ST in PVP.

Allows u to perform the tanking / shielding even better.

 

Enemies close to each other/capping node/nuking ur healer ect. -> carbonize - trinkets+25%crit skill and start the flames rolling.

It costs quite a bit of heat, but if u use vent heat at like 30-40% it allows u to turn and turn

and turn till the enemies r dead.

 

Bad eniemies will turn their attention to u seeing as you are burning their asses.

Good ones will..well...keep killing the guarded healer while being burned to death.

or the other way.

In both cases u just performed ur role.

 

Not to mention u can easil prevent 5+ targets alone from capping node strafing around it.

Edited January 10, 2012 by masakariR

[Kollbjorn]

Hi. I read through your guide and it was quite comprehensive. I just wanted to comment on one thing. I actually stumbled upon your blog while investigating this myself. You posted that you cannot shield kinetic or elemental damage, but can only shield weapon damage attacks. This isn't quite how shielding works. In fact, "weapon damage" attacks are not even a real type of damage. They just do whatever type of damage your weapon says it does, such as energy for lightsabers or kinetic for vibroblades.

 

There are four types of attack (Force, melee, ranged, and tech) and four types of damage (elemental, energy, internal, and kinetic). You can avoid and shield melee and ranged attacks, not Force or tech ones. If you look at the dueling experiments in your blog, all of the attacks that were never shielded were Force or tech attacks. The damage type does not actually have anything to do with shielding, only if armor or Mark of Power applies.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Kollbjorn

[Xsorus]

I've stated before and I'll state it again.

 

Stabilized Armor is our best Defensive Talent in all the tree's.

[Slooop]

Hey Taugrim. I've been hesitant about putting talent points in Ion Overload and Supercharges Ion Gas because I've heard alot of talk about the Ion Gas Cylinder being bugged. I was wondering if you have noticed the IGC damage output not matching the tooltip as well? Do you think they just neglected to change the tooltip or is it bugged?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=94481

[taugrimtaugrim]

I've stated before and I'll state it again.

 

Stabilized Armor is our best Defensive Talent in all the tree's.

 

I don't have the numbers offhand since I'm running a PT / AP build atm, but the +16% armor gives a single-digit increase in mitigation for 2 specific types of damage.

 

If anyone is re-specing and can provide the tooltip Damage Reduction difference, that would be great.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Hey Taugrim. I've been hesitant about putting talent points in Ion Overload and Supercharges Ion Gas because I've heard alot of talk about the Ion Gas Cylinder being bugged. I was wondering if you have noticed the IGC damage output not matching the tooltip as well? Do you think they just neglected to change the tooltip or is it bugged?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=94481

 

I haven't tested this specifically.

 

If someone is respec'ing and can test, that would be great.

Edited January 10, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[taugrimtaugrim]

Hi. I read through your guide and it was quite comprehensive. I just wanted to comment on one thing. I actually stumbled upon your blog while investigating this myself. You posted that you cannot shield kinetic or elemental damage, but can only shield weapon damage attacks. This isn't quite how shielding works. In fact, "weapon damage" attacks are not even a real type of damage. They just do whatever type of damage your weapon says it does, such as energy for lightsabers or kinetic for vibroblades.

 

There are four types of attack (Force, melee, ranged, and tech) and four types of damage (elemental, energy, internal, and kinetic). You can avoid and shield melee and ranged attacks, not Force or tech ones. If you look at the dueling experiments in your blog, all of the attacks that were never shielded were Force or tech attacks. The damage type does not actually have anything to do with shielding, only if armor or Mark of Power applies.

 

Thank you for posting this!

 

This explains the behavior of the mechanics.

 

The implication is that our talents in the Shield Tech tree provide value against "non-spell" types of attacks whereas "spell" types of attacks are not avoidable or blockable (shieldable), but the weapon-based ones are.

 

This is consistent with how block in other games works, such as WoW and RIFT.

 

The consideration for SWTOR is that there are quite a number of Tech based attacks.

 

So this may affect choices around investing in the raw 2% mitigation talents vs the Defense / Shield ones. YMMV.

Edited January 10, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[taugrimtaugrim]

Per Kollbjorn's insightful post, I have revised the Defense Mechanics section of the Guide accordingly:

 

The important thing to understand are which types of attacks are Avoidable and Shieldable and which are not. There are 4 types of attacks: Force, Melee, Ranged, and Tech. Melee and Ranged types are Avoidable and Shieldable, whereas Force and Tech attacks are not. This is consistent with other games such as WoW and RIFT, where "spell" attacks are not dodgeable / parryable and not blockable. That being said, the main consideration for SWTOR is that all classes have either Force or Tech attacks. Therefore, you may not get as much mileage out of your Avoidance and Shield-related talents as you might expect. E.g. the melee stun and melee attack for the Imperial Agent (Smuggler) class are Tech and therefore given sufficient accuracy will always hit.

Edited January 10, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[Xunt]

Thank you for the guide, and this thread. I've learned quite a bit from reading through here. It's helped a lot while rolling up my new BH.

 

I followed your progress with your gun slinger (I think that was in beta) Any chance you'll write up an Op/scoundrel guide?

[taugrimtaugrim]

Thank you for the guide, and this thread. I've learned quite a bit from reading through here. It's helped a lot while rolling up my new BH.

 

I followed your progress with your gun slinger (I think that was in beta) Any chance you'll write up an Op/scoundrel guide?

 

My current plan is to roll either a Sentinel, Guardian, or Gunslinger next.

[fallenjedi]

Thank you!

[Xunt]

My current plan is to roll either a Sentinel, Guardian, or Gunslinger next.

 

Too bad. I'd love to see some solid testing done with the healing tree. With only an hour or two to play every few days, I rely on other peoples testing/guides, as I don't really have the time to run the numbers myself. And of course, you're one of the best people to get that type of info from.

[chainsawsamurai]

I haven't tested this specifically.

 

If someone is respec'ing and can test, that would be great.

 

It is definitely only doing about 40% of the listed damage.

 

Granted, it IS Energy damage which is mitigated by Armor, but a 60% reduction is nowhere near the reduction on Rocket Punch or basic blaster shots.

 

It is either a bug or the tooltip is wrong.

[Scoobings]

The ST (SS) and PT (AS) trees don’t synergize well given that they have talents that buff different stances.

 

 

 

 

Disagree. If you haven't tried a ST/PT hybrid build you should try it before you crap talk it

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMhrkMboMZMcZfhMbz.1

 

Run combustable (obviously). The mobility and utility of ST combined with the solid overall damage of pyrotech really works. Give it a try sometime.

 

*edit*

I've been thinking of picking up the shield snare removal, just for huttball, but in your average fight you don't need it between jet charge and pull. Still, I probably will just because the utility is nice (and drop the 6% crit on fire)

 

Also, there's the obvious 21/2/18. Which I need to try out. The rail shot procs are nice I'm sure.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Scoobings

[taugrimtaugrim]

Filled in the DPS Rotation section of the Guide.

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

 

I decided to break up the section depending on whether you have 18+ points in Pyrotech, and then looking at Shield Tech and Advanced Prototype separately.

 

Let me know if you have feedback.

 

I may need to find a more visual way of representing this.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMhrkMboMZMcZfhMbz.1

 

Run combustable (obviously). The mobility and utility of ST combined with the solid overall damage of pyrotech really works.

 

Do most people with 21/2/18 run with the Combustible Gas Cylinder instead of the Ion Cylinder, or are you advocating it specifically for this spec?

 

There is a tradeoff decision here obviously: Guard capability vs improved DoT capability.

Edited January 13, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[Dharagada]

Taugrim, just wanted to say I'm a fan of your stream been watching for awhile now and always appreciate your insight.

 

Please keep up the good work.

 

Do most people with 21/2/18 run with the Combustible Gas Cylinder instead of the Ion Cylinder, or are you advocating it specifically for this spec?

 

There is a tradeoff decision here obviously: Guard capability vs improved DoT capability.

 

It's generally considered better to run with Ion just because the build is a more a tank build with some extra dps, does make those talents in the Pyro tree for combustible a waste but those are the breaks.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Dharagada

[taugrimtaugrim]

It's generally considered better to run with Ion just because the build is a more a tank build with some extra dps, does make those talents in the Pyro tree for combustible a waste but those are the breaks.

 

OK, that's what I thought.

 

Thanks for confirming

[Tusc]

It's generally considered better to run with Ion just because the build is a more a tank build with some extra dps, does make those talents in the Pyro tree for combustible a waste but those are the breaks.

 

I'm running a Pyro build at the moment, and love it, but do miss jet charge. With the state of mitigation in PvP, I'm not at all convinced that running an ST/Pyro build with CGC is a bad idea.

 

 

Something like this avoids all Ion Gas Cylinder talents and takes the Combustible Gas cylinder talents. Still 21/2/18, but different. It has me curious enough to maybe try it next week.

 

http://knotor.com/skills#AgMVAhJRYnqCmrO6ytPa2nOKkauyusvS

[Dharagada]

I'm running a Pyro build at the moment, and love it, but do miss jet charge. With the state of mitigation in PvP, I'm not at all convinced that running an ST/Pyro build with CGC is a bad idea.

 

 

Something like this avoids all Ion Gas Cylinder talents and takes the Combustible Gas cylinder talents. Still 21/2/18, but different. It has me curious enough to maybe try it next week.

 

http://knotor.com/skills#AgMVAhJRYnqCmrO6ytPa2nOKkauyusvS

 

Well as with the build in general your basically giving up one thing to gain a bit more in the other, just depends on what you value more.

 

With the Ion gas you gain a bit more defense and the ability to guard others, with combustible you get a bit more damage.

 

In terms of warzones you probably due better medal wise with Ion gas and using guard and protecting a healer. Also keep in mind you are missing some of the talents that help combustible hit really hard, such as firebug and burnout.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Dharagada

[Tusc]

Yeah, basically it's giving up a lot of damage just to get jet charge. Which really isn't worth it, even though I really love Jet Charge. I miss it most in Huttball, and we get a lot of Huttball. Put me on the bandwagon for trading out Grapple for Jet Charge as a core ability.

 

 

Guess I stick with full pyro.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Tusc

[ururururu]

its not just jet charge, it's jet charge + guard + lots of mitigation vs some classes.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Made a bunch of updates to the Guide:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

 

• Talent Tree Analysis section - updated take on talents based on more testing with various specs
  
• Specs section - yes Carolina Parakeet is now there, added some more, and tweaked existing ones
  
• Stats and Gear section - added Gear tiers for PVP, added DPS sections for stat priorities
  
• Defense Mechanics section - updated with more information on how the Avoidance and Mitigation mechanics work
  
• DPS Rotation section - broke this up into 3 parts, depending whether you have 18+ points in Pyrotech (Assault Spec), and if no, whether you are favoring the tank or middle tree in terms of talent points
  

 

 

Also, if you haven't already seen the article I posted today on Understanding the Avoidance and Mitigation Mechanics for Tanks in PVP, I highly recommend you read it:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

Edited January 20, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[Blackire]

Great work mate.

 

Props for the guide, like the presentation style.

 

So to sum up, essentially looking like BW has designed tanking/defensive mechanics much like most other MMOs, i.e in WOW terms; that only "melee" attacks(ranged or melee) not "spell" attacks(Force/Tech) are affected by our shielding, armor mitigation and avoidance.

 

So doesn't this still not synergize well with our pvp tank gear?

 

Whyfore stack defense if avoidance only works against a limited number of weapon damage attacks when all classes have "spell" attacks that bypass?

 

Would you not agree that due to this design, does it not simply make better sense to play offensive tanking?

Edited January 20, 2012 by Blackire