Taugrim's Guide to Bounty Hunter Powertech Mechanics and PVP

[Varicite]

Hey, Taugrim, I noticed that you removed the 0/12/29 spec from your guide.

 

I was wondering why?

 

Is it not considered viable to go deep into Pyro while also picking up Hitman?

 

Edit: Also, a guildie of mine mentioned that you were running 4/6/31 these days (which I wasn't expecting at all when you roflstomped me.. I thought you were still Iron Fist lol).

 

Do you feel that the pure dps of 4/6/31 is worth giving up most of the utility from AP, especially in warzone environments? (Grapple, Electro Dart, Quell, etc)

Edited March 6, 2012 by Varicite

[robryck]

Thx Taugrim,

 

and if i choose your 8/31/2 spec with tank stuff and shield in off hand?

 

Do you think i will able to tank during the leveling?(for heroic quest only)

Cause tonight i was a little bit to short as dps with my friends in a flashpoint.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Hey, Taugrim, I noticed that you removed the 0/12/29 spec from your guide.

 

I was wondering why?

 

Is it not considered viable to go deep into Pyro while also picking up Hitman?

 

Edit: Also, a guildie of mine mentioned that you were running 4/6/31 these days (which I wasn't expecting at all when you roflstomped me.. I thought you were still Iron Fist lol).

 

Do you feel that the pure dps of 4/6/31 is worth giving up most of the utility from AP, especially in warzone environments? (Grapple, Electro Dart, Quell, etc)

 

One of the stud Vanguards on my server (Omegix) is running 4/12/25 - a spec that I've never seen anyone else running, and I've been testing it out.

 

It's mechanically superior to 0/12/29 IMO. I'm still testing out the spec.

 

You lose Thermal Detonator and Burnout, but the priority for the spec is refreshing Rail Shot as much as possible, since it synergizes with the 4-pc set bonus and 30% Surge talent.

[Varicite]

One of the stud Vanguards on my server (Omegix) is running 4/12/25 - a spec that I've never seen anyone else running, and I've been testing it out.

 

It's mechanically superior to 0/12/29 IMO. I'm still testing out the spec.

 

You lose Thermal Detonator and Burnout, but the priority for the spec is refreshing Rail Shot as much as possible, since it synergizes with the 4-pc set bonus and 30% Surge talent.

 

I've fought him once, was a good duel. : ) Pretty sure I just got lucky, though.

 

Interesting, I've been running a 2/12/26 spec since I hit 50. It sounds like Omegix and I might be running something very similar. I've been playing w/ where to put my 1 floater point. I've tried it in Electro Dart, and I have it in RB right now, but feel it's completely wasted there. I've been thinking of putting it in GAJ lately, because the spec is still a heat hog. Maybe I'll toss it in Shield Tech like Omegix.

 

I really like having the 1 point in Energy Rebounder though.

 

I started using this spec because I leveled to 50 using the Run 'n Gun hybrid spec, and really fell in love w/ the utility talents in AP, but found that I just didn't have the "oomph" I needed to down priority targets, even though it was fun to troll people all day w/ Hydraulic Overrides in Huttball.

 

I felt that the 12 in AP gave you access to the majority of the tree's utility, and the 25 in Pyro gives you everything essential from that tree also. This is the first time I've heard of anyone else using something similar, tbh.

 

I'm Ceraphene, btw. Sorry I didn't believe you were really you. <.<

Edited March 7, 2012 by Varicite

[Farious]

Why you didn’t put Flame Thrower (FT) in DPS rotation for Advanced Prototype (AP) spec? based on talent Prototype Flame Thrower you can increase the FT damage by 50%. it is a nice addition to AP dps to use FT after you get 5 stacks using Flame Burst. Also in AOE situations after DFA you can use FB a few times to get stacks then use FT for a huge AOE burst.

 

Also i have a question about relics. which ones gives you more burst when you pop it with Explosive Fuel. crit/surge or power ?

[Varicite]

Why you didn’t put Flame Thrower (FT) in DPS rotation for Advanced Prototype (AP) spec? based on talent Prototype Flame Thrower you can increase the FT damage by 50%. it is a nice addition to AP dps to use FT after you get 5 stacks using Flame Burst. Also in AOE situations after DFA you can use FB a few times to get stacks then use FT for a huge AOE burst.

 

Also i have a question about relics. which ones gives you more burst when you pop it with Explosive Fuel. crit/surge or power ?

 

FT is extremely situational in PvP because of the channel time.

 

You can use it sometimes, but I can usually count the times it would come in handy in a match on one hand.

 

It's definitely not part of a standard rotation.

[Gnugthreeonefive]

FT is extremely situational in PvP because of the channel time.

 

You can use it sometimes, but I can usually count the times it would come in handy in a match on one hand.

 

It's definitely not part of a standard rotation.

I disagree completely. The moment you're hitting more than one player, it's second only to DfA.

 

edit: This is inaccurate at best. It has it's situational uses, typically when everything is on coodown, you're hitting 3+ players close to death, have nothing targetted etc.

 

But I'm looking very much forward to seeing AP making prototype FT viable!

Edited March 20, 2012 by Gnugthreeonefive
Wrong!

[Pendrych]

I've fought him once, was a good duel. : ) Pretty sure I just got lucky, though.

 

Interesting, I've been running a 2/12/26 spec since I hit 50. It sounds like Omegix and I might be running something very similar. I've been playing w/ where to put my 1 floater point. I've tried it in Electro Dart, and I have it in RB right now, but feel it's completely wasted there. I've been thinking of putting it in GAJ lately, because the spec is still a heat hog. Maybe I'll toss it in Shield Tech like Omegix.

 

I really like having the 1 point in Energy Rebounder though.

 

I started using this spec because I leveled to 50 using the Run 'n Gun hybrid spec, and really fell in love w/ the utility talents in AP, but found that I just didn't have the "oomph" I needed to down priority targets, even though it was fun to troll people all day w/ Hydraulic Overrides in Huttball.

 

I felt that the 12 in AP gave you access to the majority of the tree's utility, and the 25 in Pyro gives you everything essential from that tree also. This is the first time I've heard of anyone else using something similar, tbh.

 

I'm Ceraphene, btw. Sorry I didn't believe you were really you. <.<

 

I've been using a 0/14/27 spec lately which sounds very close to this and I feel like I'm performing well in PvP (it works as a DPS spec in PvE too, which is one reason I've been sitting in it while my respec cost resets). The part I found really interesting was that it doesn't lose that much hitting power when you run Ion Gas Cylinder, either - which isn't ideal, but sometimes the team needs an extra Guard more than it needs max DPS. I do keep Retractable Blade for cheap DoT reapplication though since I can't always rely on Flame Burst reapplying CBC with this approach.

 

I've been bouncing around behind a variant of 0/14/27, Iron Fist, and a 19/22/0 PvP-oriented build I used while leveling up. Overall I prefer HO to Jet Charge and felt like I had the same mobility and durability as Iron Fist with comparable hitting power, relying on setting up Charged Gauntlets for the Rail Shot autocrit + Explosive Dart for burst.

[Gnugthreeonefive]

One of the stud Vanguards on my server (Omegix) is running 4/12/25 - a spec that I've never seen anyone else running, and I've been testing it out.

 

It's mechanically superior to 0/12/29 IMO. I'm still testing out the spec.

 

You lose Thermal Detonator and Burnout, but the priority for the spec is refreshing Rail Shot as much as possible, since it synergizes with the 4-pc set bonus and 30% Surge talent.

 

What's the spec, and how's it going?

[DragonSentry]

Your guide is great! But it speaks very little about Heat (Ammo) management in PvP.

 

When I'm tanking PvE I've got some fairly strict guidelines about not going over 40 heat, when to use my heat-free buff, etc. etc.

 

What about in PvP? I catch myself with high heat all too often, though it usually means I've been putting in the hurt on the enemy.

 

Are there any general heat/ammo guidelines you try to follow when playing PvP?

[Sparkalo]

Hey Taugrim, first of all, I just wanted to say that I've been using your Ironfist Spec as a new 50 and I'm loving it so far. I'm still under-geared, so my damage output has been pretty lame, but after making a habit of shifting my guards to focused targets and spamming taunts, I'm pumping out 100k+ prot a game without having to really think about it.

 

I'm here to discuss one of the revisions to your spec, namely the removal of gut/retractable blade (quote from here)

 

Mar 12, 2012: updated for 1.1.5. Updated Iron Fist spec given the decreased value of Retractable Blade (Gut) in PVP

 

The reasoning behind this change (and please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that the primary value of Retractable Blade was the long (15 second) DoT to prevent capping. Now that DoTs no longer interrupt caps, it would stand to reason that the talent is no longer required for this particular scenario, leaving the other benefit of the talent: raw damage.

 

My question is whether Prototype Cylinders is really preferable to Retractable Blade from a damage standpoint. Paramount to my concern is whether Prototype Cylinders' 8% boost affects JUST the Ion Gas Cylinder proc, or if it also applies to the talented DoT (i.e. the "Shock" damage). If it only applies to the initial proc damage, then the results seem pretty negligible to me. My tooltip says IGC procs for 582 (it could be lying) and 8% of that is 46.56. Even if it also applies to the "Shock" effect, you're still not getting anywhere close to the damage that Retractable Blade does, right? I mean, it's a more efficient skill than flame burst.

 

I suppose by removing RB, you do have a possible third benefit, being that the damage increase from Prototype Cylinders (although negligible...) is passive, which is to say that it doesn't require any additional expenditure of heat.

 

Anyways, any clarification would be much appreciated! Keep up the excellent work

[Gnugthreeonefive]

I also enjoy IF and have played it a ton. Overall, it's certainly a very solid spec for Huttball. And it's very fun to play!

 

As full Pyro I'm doing sick damage, tho. What with 1.2 cutting down on huttball matches, I'm afraid IF may become further from optimal. Ofc, for 8-man premades, group composition consideration comes into play.

 

Fwiw, imo RB is worth keeping for damage alone. However, if you do drop it, Hot Iron has absolutely got to go. Meaning, imho, taugrim's IF spec needs a little more tweaking if he wants to drop RB.

 

On another note, Combust also bears reconsidering. I don't know the numbers for Oil Slick, so it's hard to tell which debuff helps the most.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Your guide is great! But it speaks very little about Heat (Ammo) management in PvP.

 

What about in PvP? I catch myself with high heat all too often, though it usually means I've been putting in the hurt on the enemy.

 

Are there any general heat/ammo guidelines you try to follow when playing PvP?

 

Because of the non-linear Heat venting mechanic, in general, you want to try to keep your Heat low in PVP, just as you do in PVE.

 

That said, in PVP there are times you will need to apply heavy burst, whereas in PVE boss fights are often protracted so you need to manage your "mana" accordingly.

 

So there are times where you may need to aggressively use Heat-generating abilities to kill off your opponent, e.g. so you can kill the Huttball EFC, cap a node, or drop a healer.

 

Aside from that burst-down scenario though, you want to manage your Heat carefully, e.g. by:

1. interleaving Rapid Shots before you go too high on Heat

2. using your Vent Heat aggressively when you to put out sustained burst damage

3. if you have 11+ points in Pyrotech, not over-using Incendiary Missile due to the high cost

 

Also in PVP with 11+ points in Pyrotech, take note that healers may cleanse your DoTs, and if you need a DoT on your target to open up use of Rail Shot, re-apply your DoT via Flame Burst *not* Incendiary, as FB is both less expensive and it applies the snare.

[taugrimtaugrim]

What's the spec, and how's it going?

 

Here's the 4/12/25 spec I've been using:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZMsMrZfhrbdhhM.1

 

Omegix may be running a slightly different version of 4/12/25 (he's the first person I was aware using it), but the philosophy is the same:

a. have the interrupt every 6 seconds, increased FB damage, and decreased cooldown for the pull

b. whenever Rail Shot is on cooldown, you want to spam RP and FB to trigger a RS cooldown reset

 

I know what the reaction of some big-number fixated people will be:

1. you are giving up Burnout

2. you are giving up Thermal Detonator

 

Burnout is a solid talent, but it is nowhere near as valuable as the true "Execute" abilities that other classes get. The main thing to note is that heavy Pyrotech specs revolve around usage of RS, with its 90% Armor pene and +15% Crit Chance from 4-pc Eliminators, and RS is Ranged not Tech. And your target will likely not stay under 30% HP for long as heavy Pyrotech, because we can burst them down.

 

You do give up TD, and that ability can crit hard. But here's the thing - if you are within 10m of your target, from a GCD priority, your focus is on getting RS off cooldown ASAP. Which means that TD is going to be competing with RP and FB for usage and the latter 2 should be your focus.

[taugrimtaugrim]

The reasoning behind this change (and please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that the primary value of Retractable Blade was the long (15 second) DoT to prevent capping. Now that DoTs no longer interrupt caps, it would stand to reason that the talent is no longer required for this particular scenario, leaving the other benefit of the talent: raw damage.

 

Correct.

 

My question is whether Prototype Cylinders is really preferable to Retractable Blade from a damage standpoint. Paramount to my concern is whether Prototype Cylinders' 8% boost affects JUST the Ion Gas Cylinder proc, or if it also applies to the talented DoT (i.e. the "Shock" damage). If it only applies to the initial proc damage, then the results seem pretty negligible to me. My tooltip says IGC procs for 582 (it could be lying) and 8% of that is 46.56. Even if it also applies to the "Shock" effect, you're still not getting anywhere close to the damage that Retractable Blade does, right? I mean, it's a more efficient skill than flame burst.

 

I haven't tested, but my assumption is that the 8% boost applies to both the up-front IGC proc and the DoT. If anyone has tested, please let us know.

 

Also, you are comparing apples-to-oranges a bit here, because RB requires use of a GCD. The IGC procs automatically from use of RP and also procs from use of Ranged attacks.

 

It sounds like you are not the only person who wants to keep RB, which is fine. Spec'ing is all about tradeoffs

Edited March 14, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[Theology]

This guide will ned a ton of updatin'.

 

OR downdatin' seeing as we only have 2 viable specs now.

[taugrimtaugrim]

This guide will ned a ton of updatin'.

 

OR downdatin' seeing as we only have 2 viable specs now.

 

Understood and agreed.

[mackgt]

Great job guys! I am excited to try the 4/12/25 spec myself.

[Varicite]

Here's the 4/12/25 spec I've been using:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZMsMrZfhrbdhhM.1

 

Omegix may be running a slightly different version of 4/12/25 (he's the first person I was aware using it), but the philosophy is the same:

a. have the interrupt every 6 seconds, increased FB damage, and decreased cooldown for the pull

b. whenever Rail Shot is on cooldown, you want to spam RP and FB to trigger a RS cooldown reset

 

I know what the reaction of some big-number fixated people will be:

1. you are giving up Burnout

2. you are giving up Thermal Detonator

 

Burnout is a solid talent, but it is nowhere near as valuable as the true "Execute" abilities that other classes get. The main thing to note is that heavy Pyrotech specs revolve around usage of RS, with its 90% Armor pene and +15% Crit Chance from 4-pc Eliminators, and RS is Ranged not Tech. And your target will likely not stay under 30% HP for long as heavy Pyrotech, because we can burst them down.

 

You do give up TD, and that ability can crit hard. But here's the thing - if you are within 10m of your target, from a GCD priority, your focus is on getting RS off cooldown ASAP. Which means that TD is going to be competing with RP and FB for usage and the latter 2 should be your focus.

 

Hmm, yeah, that's pretty close, only I opted to drop the 4% damage from Intimidation for 1 point in Energy Rebounder and 1 in GAJ to (hopefully) increase my overall longevity. I did a lot of playing around (and spent a ton of credits :c ) w/ different variations, but I'm still not sure about the point in GAJ - it does serve better than when I had it in RB, though.

 

It's an awesome spec, and I honestly think it's the best blend of AP and Pyro currently possible.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Varicite

[Squelsch]

So I'm a level 20 on my first character in this game. (I still have no idea what I'm doing...) I'm a powertech, and my skills are in cybertech, scavenging and underworld... none of them seem useful. at all. i'm just curious what are some benefits of having these skills, and what are some useful things about a powertech. I'm a level 20, and even though thats still relatively low on the totem pole, i feel like i'm getting creamed when i should be winning. In other words, I'm not using the full potential of my character. Any advice?

[oOEggmanOo]

Burnout is a solid talent, but it is nowhere near as valuable as the true "Execute" abilities that other classes get. The main thing to note is that heavy Pyrotech specs revolve around usage of RS, with its 90% Armor pene and +15% Crit Chance from 4-pc Eliminators, and RS is Ranged not Tech. And your target will likely not stay under 30% HP for long as heavy Pyrotech, because we can burst them down.

 

You do give up TD, and that ability can crit hard. But here's the thing - if you are within 10m of your target, from a GCD priority, your focus is on getting RS off cooldown ASAP. Which means that TD is going to be competing with RP and FB for usage and the latter 2 should be your focus.

 

Just wanted to ask about this, as i'm sure you know, Flame Burst and Rocket Punch are both classed as a Tech attacks. I fully agree that Rail Shot is a priority for this and the Pyro spec, but seeing as due to RND managing to get a RS proc could take a few rounds of FB and RP to produce. Which if you look at it that way, makes Burnout still a valuable choice. But as you say its all about trade-offs, you lose the quicker Quell and added damage and other abilities.

 

I'm not sure, but does the added crit from Burnout, get directly added on top of your normal crit chance, or is it subject to the same returns? if its going to be subjected to the same returns as normal crit then your spec makes more sense if you have already maxed or are anywhere near, maxing out your crit rating.

[taugrimtaugrim]

I'm not sure, but does the added crit from Burnout, get directly added on top of your normal crit chance, or is it subject to the same returns? if its going to be subjected to the same returns as normal crit then your spec makes more sense if you have already maxed or are anywhere near, maxing out your crit rating.

 

Burnout gives a flat 3% Tech Crit Chance, regardless of your target's health, and it is not affected by stats DR.

 

All of the talents that boost stats work that way - they are not affected by DR, which is part of what makes them so valuable.

[Theology]

Taugrim, would love for you to comment on what you think about with the pyro nerf:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=370674

 

Thanks

[oOEggmanOo]

Just wanted to ask Tau' are you still running with the Iron Fist spec, now that you have dropped Gut/Retractable Blade?

[jsalemi]

Just decided to roll a Powertech, so thanks for this guide.

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