Bleed effects on Scream and Impale are laughable, boost plz

[Dreadspectre]

42 Jugg atm, specced Vengeance in PvP. Impale bleed ticks for 40-62dmg and scream is 25-30. Is this a joke? Impale and scream aren't even that GOOD on their own. They're solid hits don't get me wrong but I'm no sniper or smuggler popping 3-5k shots off left and right with these things. Add in the fact that Shatter has a DoT attached to it too and I'm thinking they meant Vengeance to be a semi-dottish damage tree but these dots are just....tickles.

 

Please consider boosting the damage a little, pretty please?

 

Edit: To clarify how piss poor that damage is, the 50's running around in PvP gear now are pushing 15k on average in hp. I saw a powertech yesterday with 21k.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Dreadspectre

[Anemus]

I agree, tried spending those skill points elsewhere?

[steinsgate]

Your options are the bleed talents or survivability/pvp talents.

[Noth]

Rather see them removed and something better put in their place. I am not a fan of dot specs in a tree made for burst damage

[Aniliss]

Rather see them removed and something better put in their place. I am not a fan of dot specs in a tree made for burst damage

 

Vengeance was meant to be a burst spec? I thought Vengeance was suppose to be sustained dps and Rage was suppose to be the burst spec.

 

On a side note, I wouldn't keeping the dots. Just make them stronger / more effective. Sustained damage and effective dots isn't bad.

[Noth]

Vengeance was meant to be a burst spec? I thought Vengeance was suppose to be sustained dps and Rage was suppose to be the burst spec.

 

On a side note, I wouldn't keeping the dots. Just make them stronger / more effective. Sustained damage and effective dots isn't bad.

 

Impale is extremely bursty. Add in the near auto crit on scream and viscious throw that yells burst to me. Dots added as an after thought with shatter added to make it seem more like a dot spec (which I might add also doesn't scale as well as other classes dots). Rage has only one burst move (that requires dots to empower) and seems to focus more on AoE. Vengeance effectively has three thanks to the crit bonus from savagery.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Noth

[KhealThar]

I think they just need to focus on increasing Jugg damage overall. After going from my Jugg to my Assassin, I feel much more tanky and do a hell of a lot more damage on my Assassin than my Juggernaut. They're both between 30-40 right now.

 

They either need to buff the damage or somehow give sith warriors more mobility. Kind of frustrating being caught in stuns/slows with only having one way to get to a target, having to build rage before actually doing damage only to be stunned/knocked back immediately after !

[Viperho]

I think they just need to focus on increasing Jugg damage overall. After going from my Jugg to my Assassin, I feel much more tanky and do a hell of a lot more damage on my Assassin than my Juggernaut. They're both between 30-40 right now.

 

They either need to buff the damage or somehow give sith warriors more mobility. Kind of frustrating being caught in stuns/slows with only having one way to get to a target, having to build rage before actually doing damage only to be stunned/knocked back immediately after !

 

exactly, one would think a "juggernaut" would pretty much be unmovable hence the name. im fine with low dps, but please make us feel more "juggernaughty" m'kay devs?

[eightohfive]

Something definitely needs to be done about these bleed effects for Scream and Impale. At lower levels they are fine, but the damage is static so at level 50 they are doing the same damage as level 30. I haven't even hit max level and already these DoTs are a joke against mobs my level. It takes talent tree points to get these bleeds, so they need to be useful!

 

300 damage over 6 seconds...at level 50. That is just not right. The upfront damage for these abilities just aren't enough to justify such weak DoTs. I hope they really look this spec over, Vengeance is a lot of fun and I would like to see it reach it's full potential in PvE.

[Aniliss]

exactly, one would think a "juggernaut" would pretty much be unmovable hence the name. im fine with low dps, but please make us feel more "juggernaughty" m'kay devs?

 

You shouldn't be fine with the low dps if you spec into a dps tree.

[Quor]

I think they just need to focus on increasing Jugg damage overall. After going from my Jugg to my Assassin, I feel much more tanky and do a hell of a lot more damage on my Assassin than my Juggernaut. They're both between 30-40 right now.

 

They either need to buff the damage or somehow give sith warriors more mobility. Kind of frustrating being caught in stuns/slows with only having one way to get to a target, having to build rage before actually doing damage only to be stunned/knocked back immediately after !

 

The bolded part is your problem. They're both between thirty and forty.

 

Jugs become MUCH better at 40 when they can get a top-tier talent. They don't truly become Juggernauts until they get level 50. Then they have access to Intercede (amazing survivability/mobility/support tool) as well as another ten talents to invest in a tree to support whatever it is you are doing. Combined with the 2-pc set bonus from the DPS pvp set, a Juggernaut becomes VERY hard to kill (for the unaware, the 2-pc DPS set bonus for Jugs heals yourself for 8% of your max life every time you use Intercede, which is on a 20s cooldown. And since you should pretty much be using Intercede about as often as it's up, you're looking at healing for 1500ish every 25 seconds or so).

 

As for the Scream/Impale bleed effects....they constitute between a 15 and 30% increase in damage to Scream and Impale respectively.

 

For example, my Impale with my current gear hits for an average of 1342 (assuming a 0 armor target for the sake of example). The Impale bleed effect hits for 298 total over six seconds. That's a little more than one fourth of the total average damage of Impale, and it's modified by power (so more power = stronger bleed). So the Impale bleed talent essentially increases Impales damage by 25-30%, and it's all internal so therefore not subject to armor damage reduction.

 

Likewise, my Scream in current gear hits for 1188 average, with a bleed of 186 over six seconds. That's about 15% of the average Scream damage, and it too is increased by power, as well as being internal and thus ignoring armor.

 

So for the cost of four talent points, you basically increase the damage of Scream and Impale by ~15% and ~27.5%. In terms of talent-to-power ratio, that's roughly on par with what you would expect for those respective talent tiers. Plus both bleeds have the secondary effect of acting as "junk" debuffs that help to protect your snare and Shatter bleed in pvp.

 

edit: corrected late night error of errorness

Edited January 2, 2012 by Quor

[KhealThar]

Jugs become MUCH better at 40 when they can get a top-tier talent. They don't truly become Juggernauts until they get level 50. Then they have access to Intercede (amazing survivability/mobility/support tool) as well as another ten talents to invest in a tree to support whatever it is you are doing. Combined with the 2-pc set bonus from the DPS pvp set, a Juggernaut becomes VERY hard to kill (for the unaware, the 2-pc DPS set bonus for Jugs heals yourself for 8% of your max life every time you use Intercede, which is on a 20s cooldown. And since you should pretty much be using Intercede about as often as it's up, you're looking at healing for 1500ish every 25 seconds or so).

 

Well thank you for that info, I was getting kind of worried about my Jugg. Maybe I will give the class a chance until 50.

[Noth]

The bolded part is your problem. They're both between thirty and forty.

 

Jugs become MUCH better at 40 when they can get a top-tier talent. They don't truly become Juggernauts until they get level 50. Then they have access to Intercede (amazing survivability/mobility/support tool) as well as another ten talents to invest in a tree to support whatever it is you are doing. Combined with the 2-pc set bonus from the DPS pvp set, a Juggernaut becomes VERY hard to kill (for the unaware, the 2-pc DPS set bonus for Jugs heals yourself for 8% of your max life every time you use Intercede, which is on a 20s cooldown. And since you should pretty much be using Intercede about as often as it's up, you're looking at healing for 1500ish every 25 seconds or so).

 

As for the Scream/Impale bleed effects....they constitute between a 15 and 30% increase in damage to Scream and Impale respectively.

 

For example, my Impale with my current gear hits for an average of 1342 (assuming a 0 armor target for the sake of example). The Impale bleed effect hits for 298 total over six seconds. That's a little more than one fourth of the total average damage of Impale, and it's modified by power (so more power = stronger bleed). So the Impale bleed talent essentially increases Impales damage by 25-30%, and it's all internal so therefore not subject to armor damage reduction.

 

Likewise, my Scream in current gear hits for 1188 average, with a bleed of 186 over six seconds. That's about 15% of the average Scream damage, and it too is increased by power, as well as being internal and thus ignoring armor.

 

So for the cost of four talent points, you basically increase the damage of Scream and Impale by ~15% and ~27.5%. In terms of talent-to-power ratio, that's roughly on par with what you would expect for those respective talent tiers. Plus both bleeds have the secondary effect of acting as "junk" debuffs that help to protect your snare and Shatter bleed in pvp.

 

edit: corrected late night error of errorness

 

Funny at 50 my bleeds still hit for less than 300. Power has not increased their damage, while I've seen huge jumps in Impales damage done. And again, there is no synergy with these dots. Other classes get better dots that end up doing much more damage than our impale+dot and even our Shatter. Then they also get benefits from those dots such as crits resetting cooldown or giving rage or doing self heals. They try and make Vengeance a dot spec but fail to make it synergize in any way. You say they are junk debuffs for removal, they are junk talents that are added out of pure laziness with no synergy what so ever in the class. Rage has more synergy with dots than Vengeance does thanks to crush empowering smash.

[Soonerjohn]

What are you talking about? Out bleeds are awesome........wait, I don't really believe that, they suck.

[Noth]

What are you talking about? Out bleeds are awesome........wait, I don't really believe that, they suck.

 

Bleeds are awesome if they do ample damage and synergize with the class. Our bleeds do neither however.

[Barzarel]

The bolded part is your problem. They're both between thirty and forty.

 

Jugs become MUCH better at 40 when they can get a top-tier talent. They don't truly become Juggernauts until they get level 50. Then they have access to Intercede (amazing survivability/mobility/support tool) as well as another ten talents to invest in a tree to support whatever it is you are doing. Combined with the 2-pc set bonus from the DPS pvp set, a Juggernaut becomes VERY hard to kill (for the unaware, the 2-pc DPS set bonus for Jugs heals yourself for 8% of your max life every time you use Intercede, which is on a 20s cooldown. And since you should pretty much be using Intercede about as often as it's up, you're looking at healing for 1500ish every 25 seconds or so).

 

edit: corrected late night error of errorness

 

Interesting, but i never really notice the dps set had any set bonuses, we taking the champions sets or higher up?.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Barzarel

[Noth]

Thought that heal was for unleashed only, if its that one you talking about? the 10% your maximum health.

 

He's talking about the 2-piece bonus from the pvp dps gear. It makes intercede heal 8% of your life.

[Barzarel]

He's talking about the 2-piece bonus from the pvp dps gear. It makes intercede heal 8% of your life.

 

So i noticed read it a bit to fast i think

[neocoma]

Your options are the bleed talents or survivability/pvp talents.

 

pvp wise this is no option at all because the bleed damage is hilarious. these talents are cleary made for pve ...because...well ...they suck.

[steinsgate]

pvp wise this is no option at all because the bleed damage is hilarious. these talents are cleary made for pve ...because...well ...they suck.

 

Yyyyyyep.

[Quor]

Funny at 50 my bleeds still hit for less than 300. Power has not increased their damage, while I've seen huge jumps in Impales damage done. And again, there is no synergy with these dots. Other classes get better dots that end up doing much more damage than our impale+dot and even our Shatter. Then they also get benefits from those dots such as crits resetting cooldown or giving rage or doing self heals. They try and make Vengeance a dot spec but fail to make it synergize in any way. You say they are junk debuffs for removal, they are junk talents that are added out of pure laziness with no synergy what so ever in the class. Rage has more synergy with dots than Vengeance does thanks to crush empowering smash.

 

That's funny, cause when I hit my +power relic and use Impale, I see the bleed ticks go up by about 15 damage per tick (225 extra power). Keep in mind this is straight power, not Force Power (which I don't think affects Impale).

 

And again, the bleed effect on Impale constitutes about a 28% increase in the damage of Impale with the added effect of it all being internal (therefore avoiding the most common form of mitigation in game). It's not an amazing talent, especially compare to the three it's right next too. But it's a solid damage increase on a skill that will be used, ideally, every cooldown.

 

Now, if Bioware saw fit to make said bleed effect stronger it wouldn't be my place to question them in their wisdom. I would humbly accept such a gift with graciousness and humility. Then I'd start cackling even MORE when I stab people through the chest. Be even nicer if they added more talented support for the bleed effects beyond just damage. I would personally love it if while the Impale and Scream bleeds were on a target, healing on that target was reduced by 10% per bleed. So both talents combined would give us a 20% healing debuff in pvp, tied to Scream and Impale (two abilities we use pretty much all the time anyway).

[Noth]

That's funny, cause when I hit my +power relic and use Impale, I see the bleed ticks go up by about 15 damage per tick (225 extra power). Keep in mind this is straight power, not Force Power (which I don't think affects Impale).

 

And again, the bleed effect on Impale constitutes about a 28% increase in the damage of Impale with the added effect of it all being internal (therefore avoiding the most common form of mitigation in game). It's not an amazing talent, especially compare to the three it's right next too. But it's a solid damage increase on a skill that will be used, ideally, every cooldown.

 

Now, if Bioware saw fit to make said bleed effect stronger it wouldn't be my place to question them in their wisdom. I would humbly accept such a gift with graciousness and humility. Then I'd start cackling even MORE when I stab people through the chest. Be even nicer if they added more talented support for the bleed effects beyond just damage. I would personally love it if while the Impale and Scream bleeds were on a target, healing on that target was reduced by 10% per bleed. So both talents combined would give us a 20% healing debuff in pvp, tied to Scream and Impale (two abilities we use pretty much all the time anyway).

 

It only has a use in PvE. in PvP the other talents are better by leaps and bounds. rather see them gotten rid of and something better for both pve and pv put in it's place. Quite literally since I've been up grading gear and getting power, I've seen no increase in dot damage.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Noth

[Quor]

It only has a use in PvE. in PvP the other talents are better by leaps and bounds. rather see them gotten rid of and something better for both pve and pv put in it's place. Quite literally since I've been up grading gear and getting power, I've seen no increase in dot damage.

 

Well then I don't know what to tell you. I pop my +power relic and Impale damage as well as the bleed damage both go up. I use Impale naked and the bleed effect is a lot weaker.

 

The bleeds are still useful in pvp however, if only because they provide dispel protection for the Shatter DoT and Chilling Scream.

[namespace]

They just need to make the bleeds do a % of damage done by the initial hit over x seconds. That would add scaling and fix the "oh, let's give some DOT's to the jugg" development afterthought.

[Redundant]

They just need to make the bleeds do a % of damage done by the initial hit over x seconds. That would add scaling and fix the "oh, let's give some DOT's to the jugg" development afterthought.

 

See this is what I thought made the most sense. It helps with scaling. Bioware just have to make sure it doesn't scale to well and go insane when we get some decent gear.