I enjoy the combat and I actually feel that BW did a good job of making all classes/specs fairly viable. The problem is, outside of Huttball, the lack of innovation in the maps, bad attempt at WPvP and bad gear system. I'm not looking for gear that let's me stomp people, I just want gear period even if it's for bragging rights and I want to earn it in a suitable fashion(RNG and Dailies is not the way.) This game isn't bad, by any means. It's just not really any better than other games out right now. I think that may be contributing to the fast burnout factor I have been experiencing.

I wouldn't recommend this on a DPS Jugg. The PvE set bonuses are -ghastly- compared to the PvP one.

I think you'll find that most people will agree that SWTOR had a GREAT LAUNCH, however, many products have great launches but that doesn't mean the product is better than a competitor(WoW) or that they can convince people to leave and use this one. I mean..for example..iPhones are everywhere, the Droid phones come out, great reviews, good product, yet it initially struggled to get anyone to switch because, while a good launch, it really wasnt anything better then the iPhone, just a little different looking/performing. Essentially it was the same functioning product though. Not many people want to sell something they already own to get something that's basically...what they..already own..? All things said, the game isn't entirely doom and gloom for me, but like I and others have stated before, I have never had such a fast burnout on a game ever. True it could just be that I've played one too many MMO's but it's also, as previously mentioned, partly BW's fault for not trying to be different enough from what we already had.

I don't mind instanced PvP, it's usually the most "fair" and "skill based" PvP you can get in an MMO, as long as all things are fairly equal as gear/premade vs premade or pug vs pug etc etc. Open world needs to be everywhere, not just a zone. When it's just one zone, or one keep etc, that's when zerging becomes an issue and that's when open world stops working like it should. I want skirmishes, I want objectives being fought over that effect the world. Guilds should be able to at least put a flag up or something(the whole Guild system just seems like a last second "oh yeah we need guilds still..toss that in" system). I want to get ganked and gank people while I level. Good lord I even made my alts republics so I'd be outnumbered and I STILL DON'T SEE ANYONE

Remember when MMO PvP was fresh and those were original? Remember how this game came out in 2012 with 2 rip off maps and a 3rd decent one? Remember how this game came out in 2012 and has possibly the deadest world PvP that has been seen since WoW put in flying mounts? New games are supposed to be better then their previous incarnations and, obviously, better then the competition. They could have done much better for how much development time and money they had.

Well I suppose I DO sort of have the carrot, but I havent eaten it all yet. As I mentioned above, it's not a very appetizing looking carrot...

Why does everyone think lightning does elemental...?

I agree with you, the best gear should come from PvE....for PvE. Best gear for PvP needs to be from PvP. There are so many ways to make sure the gear is only useable in PvP areas so that PvE players aren't just getting "welfare epics" ruining their progression there's just no excuse for it. Not to mention all they need to do is start adding rating requirements to the top PvP gear so PvP'ers can have a sense of accomplishment, progression, and bragging rights. Not asking for instant PvP gear either. My Jugg geared up through the OLD bag system, the new system is a cakewalk now in comparison. PvE gear can still be worn into warzones and do pretty good, but a player in PvP gear should win, otherwise, what the hell is the point of having it in the game at all?

I don't have the carrot yet, I'm commenting on how rotten and dirty it looks and how much I don't want to chase it.

Hey there angry man. If you read my post(which you didn't) you'd see that I said "why should I have to PvE to be competitive IN PVP when PvE'rs don't have to PvP to be good in PvE." PvE gear should not have a place in PvP areas outside of casual. It should not be needed to be at the utmost competitive level. That is a failure of design.

Not that I support the OP, but it's really not hard to pull like 300k damage and 200k healing. If it's a well geared and oiled premade or something you can easily get even more numbers, maybe like 500k but still only 150-200k healing. It's kinda silly to have so many utilities tied to a single class with no restrictions. I'd be more happy with some sort of secondary AC choice where after picking Sage they then pick if they are going to follow the path of damage or healing and depending on the choice it lowers their output on the side they didn't pick by like 10-20% or something. However before one jumps to these sorts of things you have to realize what this would do to a class during their leveling and also in PvE endgame stuff.

They need to merge some servers stat before they go the way of WAR. There is no shame in merging servers, seriously. People will not be like "oh crap they merged some servers? Games dead. *jump ship*). No, instead, if they were ON one of those servers, they will have a more lively social interaction, possibly see more people while leveling on planets and have way better queue times. No need for cross server. I am a huge proponent of understanding this is a PvE game at it's core but the PvP aspect of MMO's has grown quite a bit in the last 3-4 years, mostly from WoW. They definitely advertised this game as having a solid PvP portion but seem to have taken a game, released in 2012 basically, back to like..2007. And while I commend them for there constant patchings and tweaking they've done so far, they need to step it up a notch, especially with competition just around the corner.

My main is a BM Jugg and yeah, I've noticed on my server that Republics have an overwhelmingly large number of Commandos and Sages. You get the sprinkle of Guards/Vans here and there, occasional bad Sent etc. Mostly though it's Grav round and Pebble spam everywhere. As stated before is this unbeatable? No, but it sure as hell is easy to play and get great results. I made a sage AND a commando alt, got them into high 20's so far and my GOD it is so EASY to play verses a melee. The damage just falls out of my commando's *** and I'm not even artillery specced, I took assault(more fun imo.) I'm not even trying half the time. My sage is a TK spec(Lightning) and doesn't put out the pain as much as the Commando but makes up for it in the sheer ease of utility with stuns, knockback into a root, fat heals, force speed etc. BW did an absolutely terrible job at giving people an incentive to play melee in this game other than just for a different flavor really. With the exception of Huttball, I'd probably be better off playing a ranged in all Warzones and DEFINITELY would be better off playing one in Ilum.

Bumping this because I felt like it, I want to hear more lamentations. Am I in a minority here? Perhaps I wasn't a hardcore enough SW fan to enjoy this to the fullest...I just can't quite put my finger on why this game is quickly falling down my most loaded list in the windows star menu..

Yeah that's pretty much what it is for me too. I've played pretty much ever major MMO since UO and I've never had such a quick burnout before on any of them. I mean I still have fun sometimes but more often then not lately it's just "log in, aimlessly wander, queue up for a match, have a meh game and then log off".

I've had a BM Jugg for some time now(real BM, not Ilum) and the game has lost pretty much all interest for me. Valor Ranks mean pretty much squat considering the only set that requires a rank level is BM and it has barely better stats then the Champ(which is fine) but Champ requires no level. I can't earn my BM gear by playing any more then the next guy because it's tied to Dailies completions only(terrible system.) This makes it feel like a chore to do every day or I get no way to show off my character outside of a red version of the hover car which oh look, we can't even use in WZ's anyway so meh. I have 6 BM/Rest Champ and I'm sitting at about 16.5k hp. I see other people running PvE/PvP gear mixes with 18-26k hp now. Good job making PvP specific gear the best gear in PvP BW..oh..wait. Sorry, I don't feel like I should have to PvE to be competitive in the part of the game I picked to play. PvE'ers don't have to grind warzones and ilum to do their part. On the topic of gear I have to say I have never been more unimpressed with the amount of different styles and the QUALITY of the styles in an MMO in quite some time. So many hideous gear sets, so many recolors of old gear skins, inability to swap mods out of purple end game gear still not in etc. As a 3D graphics artist this may just affect me more so than most but it bugs me to no end. I also wish they had some different saber SHAPES or something, I know I know its star wars but man...I've basically had the same weapon since level 10(barely see hilts in this game.) I tried playing alts as that usually keeps me going in MMO's but wow I don't know what it is but I cannot keep interest. Even with class specific story quests it just seems really really dull. Add in the fact that I rolled on a PvP server and have, over the course of 4 alts to high 20's and my main, ran into THREE people in a zone for PvP...ya. Bad world layouts. Outside of Huttball(which I've quickly realized is actually the best of the 3, CW 2nd VS last) they are nothing new really. CW could stand with a size increase and possibly removing the side speeders, seems dumb to be able to defend that easy. I realize that in WoW in AB each spot had a GY BUT there was also a long 30 sec rez timer that usually serverely gimped defense if a point was really gettin hit. I'm trying to hold out for the new WZ but it is getting hard. I have an affinity for melee characters, and I think they do ok here, but I rolled several ranged alts as well and good god all I have to say is I am tired of the ease that ranged classes have in this game, especially when it comes to objective based WZ's. I won't get into being melee in Ilum because well..there's no point. TL;DR Was this post just a mindless rant about the state of the game? Probly, but it felt good posting it. I honestly don't know if it's the game or maybe I'm just getting too old to be playing. I can't even say that GW2 or really any game that's coming will be better or not but I am in game limbo right now just kinda aimlessly hopping from TOR, WoW, LoL and maybe Torchlight 2 if comes out anytime soon(D3 as well). I don't really know if there's anything they can do to make this game more appealing, I think it's because they cloned WoW TOO well...just feels like the same game I played 3 years ago 80% of the time.

I've played Vengeance since level 10. I'm a 62 Jugg atm, I'd be higher if this game wasn't losing interest for me and if I didn't play so many alts. Vengeance damage is pretty decent on squish targets but it really has issues taking down true tanks. I say this because a lot of our moves are physical damage based which means not only can shields proc on them and armor has max mitigation, these moves can also be PARRIED/DODGED/DEFLECTED. There is nothing more annoying then seeing Impale parried or a Vicious Throw dodged/parried. Also, while Rage has slightly better mobility with a second leap, we have Unstoppable that, with proper positioning in expectation of a knockback, can work just as well. Also it makes us bosses in Huttball. Vengeance Juggs are probably one of, if not the best ball carriers in Huttball.

It's pretty simple. The options are: 1. Remove Warzones/any form of instanced PvP. This makes people have to go out into the world and seek out action. No more sitting in Fleet in queues. Or 2. Make a completely different set of gear/mounts/titles/random rewards from the instanced PvP rewards. This will again force players out into the world/Ilum to do PvP. Now as far as remedying kill trading and such that is on Bioware. There is really no way to stop crappy bad players from trying to abuse a system with penalties and such, you just really have to police. There is no real way. This being said, I wish people would stop making threads about how bad OWPvP is here or whatnot when I just shake my head and think "why did you join this game expecting tons of OWPvP? It wasn't even advertised as a core PvP game. ONE "World PvP zone" does not make a game designed to have great OWPvP." Also, please stop making posts saying GW2 will get it right, because they won't either. It will be just as instanced based as WoW, WAR, SWTOR and just about any recent MMO game that came out. If you want real OWPvP you're probably better off waiting for Planetside 2.

Awe is a small aoe around me. I still have to GET to him to use it. I think most gunslinger/sniper complaints come from vs'ing ranged classes. You guys can deal with melee pretty well actually if you know how to position and use your knockbacks well.

Um...it's a PvP zone. You're going to be "kill on sight" anyway to Republics...do you let red names walk by you? No you do not, you kill them. That being said that is a sadly large number of lamers trading.

You seem to have confused this game with a game that was built with PvP as the core structure from the ground up. Best of luck as you search for a game more suited to your expectations. WAR may be up your alley, or EVE. On a serious note though, you can't expect the Devs to jump when you clap and set up stuff within 2 months of launch that dramatically changes the game.

I dunno man...theres a gunslinger on my server who will shred my Jugg in no time. I don't even know where the damage comes from. Also, how can you guys complain about cover? That **** is absolutely annoying as well as a melee. Snare us at range and we are forced to walk to you while slowed taking damage. I then have to waste one of my few CC's just to get you out of it which as a Jugg generally means choke or awe which one makes me channel to deal negligible damage and the other breaks as soon as I or someone else hits you. I save push for dire needs. Hilariously enough you can then just drop back into cover, I keep hearing how its buggy but honestly, the slingers I see don't seem to have any problem finding their shiny screens. The biggest pain though? Entrench. Sweet jesus I hate that thing. If I'm at a spot where I don't NEED to go forward sure I can just try and get out of range and make you move, but if popped when I'm knee deep in the fights, GG. Sit there immunce to all CC and just melt faces, get a healer though(same can be said for all DPS.) Not gonna say the class is fine, but I know of people who wreck with them, so they can't be COMPLETELY screwed. I think you need a solid team to back you up to let you do your thing, protect you and hold people still to let you commence the pew pew.

While I don't HATE/DISLIKE World PvP, I do not get why so many people say they crave it... I would say that MOST open world PvP degenerates into a zerg fest which is fun for pretty much no one, and if it is, only for ranged. Melee is just...bad in open world. What I think people say they want when they say OWPvP is they want random ganking and whatnot. Which is fine but then you're just stuck with people ************ about how their class blows in 1v1 or everyone starts playing stealth classes. Like it or not, warzones/battlegrounds and yes, even 3v3/5v5 arena's show off more SKILL BASED game play then open world ever will. Hilariously enough, the Devs don't really have to do anything at all to "fix" open world PvP. You know what the only thing they have to do is? Remove Warzones. Suddenly everyone is out in zones/Ilum instead of sitting in Fleet in queues. That's it. That's all they have to do. That's all any game has to do. Remove instanced PvP. Problem is, as I stated earlier, is that it's a lot easier balancing classes in an MMO style PvP system when factoring in a 3v3 or 8v8 scenario, not the oddball 1v1, 1v2, 3v1, or 50v94. Edit: On a personally funny side note, I all too often see people who make "I want real OWPvP" threads/posts saying how great GW2 is or how they can't wait for it. I hope they realize that GW2 is going to be pretty much the same and be heavily based on instanced PvP.

If someone was casual since release and have a 50 now and mainly still PvP'd, they are probably no worse then a "hardcore" PvP'er. As stated before, time does not equal skill. There is also only a finite amount of knowledge to learn in regards to memorizing all skills of classes. This game has been out for about 2 months now, plenty of time to learn everything. Someone tossed out the word "meta" as if this game really has one and I had to chuckle at myself. The only "meta" in this game is Ranged, specifically teams of nothing but Sorcs/Mercs/Powertech and their Republic counterparts. Melee get the shaft for the most part, are they bad? No not at all, but right now there's hardly any reason outside of Huttball to bring melee over ranged on your team. Anyway I digress, nerfing a stat that wasn't functioning like all others(seriously, what other stat did you know of that didn't have DR?) does not help "casuals". I was blowing up freshies in my Champ/Cent gear before I even started getting BM. I'd also rather take the crappy "casual" player who has a brain and knows how to play the maps to WIN then the BM geared mouth breather who chases kills and generally stands around drooling on his keyboard as someone caps/plants a bomb right next to him.

Gonna assume you're republic. Just stay in your base, make sure you have shadows and vanguards and just pull the ******* in who get to close, tag em and let the cannons auto gib them. You'll get your daily done in no time. Warzones is another story but if you really want to knock them out get a premade and roll it.