Thanks for the suggestions Feign. I ditched all my other pvp gear already, so it's just a matter of building up my current pvp set. Does level 55 pvp gear suffer like the old stuff does? Or does bolster work with it? Also, how to counter that roll that Smugglers and Agents have? They seem to roll farther distances than I can jump, and I've had a few arenas where I've watched them roll up onto something like they had Force Charge. Had a Scoundrel Backblast me for nearly 6k earlier, just by running circles around me and (I assume) spamming the button until she convinced the server she was behind me. Chilling Scream seems to get wiped a lot easier now. Any suggestions on dealing with that? Just reapply it more often? I've had some success vs. Commando's with properly timed Saber Reflect, but Vanguards still give me a lot of trouble. PT's and VG's were always BS, and I see that the changes made to Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt haven't really done anything to tone the class down. I managed to win one fight thanks again to Saber Reflect, but man it seems close; if I don't SR at the right time, or if it's down when I need it, then I'm done, other CD's be damned. I'm guessing the main gap is gear still, as I only have level 55 pvp pieces in my weapon, chest, head, legs and belt slots.

Backstory: I took a long break for life reasons and I came back about a month ago. I made ky way to 55 and have slowly been gearing up, both for pvp and pve. I had a few games last night that really shattered my confidence. Basically, what can a typical pvp specced Veng Jugg do against a Gunslinger? That roll of theirs is insane. Do I just play the LoS game until a friendly comes along and 2v1? Also, who was the idiot that made Hold The Line a standard Trooper skill? And what do I do against that? Hell, just bring me up to speed on how to deal with any non-Warrior/Knight class. I was still able to deal with Sents and Guardians ok at least. I've got maybe half the pvp gear I could have so I know that's an issue too, but I used to be able to overcome some of that gap with skill. But it didn't feel that way yesterday. Thanks in advance guys!

The concept is about right, but the truth is, a mara will just jump to you, a PT will just grapple you, and a sin will just catch you with force speed. Maybe those will all be on CD, but the longest is grapple, which is 25s if I'm not mistaken. Speed is 20, and jump is 15.

Yeah, I spent tonight upgrading my gear, tossed out all my old pvp stuff, and hit up the GTN and used some comms I had saved up. Did significantly better in that I died less and killed more, but still lost every round because the other side worked together much better than we did. Also they had at least 2 Gunslinger's and Commando's per round, which is just ********. I don't know who decided to make Hold The Line/Hydraulic Override a standard skill, but they need to be committed, and Gunslinger's are always a problem..

So, level 45-50 greens? O.o I already feel dirty.....

Wow. I did not know that about expertise. Guess it's time to start cranking out levels. Sounds like my old Columi stuff will be better than what I'm using now. So basically, get rid of anything that's the old pvp stuff (aka all of my gear) and get new ****, as long as it's roughly equal stat-wise, minus the expertise? Guess I'll be doing some GTN trading this weekend. Thanks guys, this clears a lot of stuff up.

Took a break for grad school and getting married, so It's been about a year since I last hopped onto TOR. When I left, Unstoppable was still useable in any form, and Sunder generated 3 rage with a 3s CD. So I hop into pvp on my new lowbie Jugg that I made simply because the story is awesome (I have a 50 s well, valor 56 with a mix of BM/WH gear) and my first experience in pvp was an Alderaan that was a close loss for my side. Ok, whatever, I'm rusty. My team managed to win the next one (Novare), which was great, but then **** really hit the fan. After banking a half dozen losses on my lowbie jugg, I hopped on my level 50, thinking the larger suite of skills would benefit me and my team. But, I still got destroyed. I was getting beat by level 30ish Gunslingers and Commando's like it wasn't a thing. I now know that ALL troopers and BH's get Hold The Line/Hydraulic Override as a standard class skill, which is BS, but pretty much anything beside's a Sorc, Jugg or poorly played DPS Operative was destroying me. I know the skill priorities, I know how to move and swap targets and adapt to the battle, but it just seems I melt to the focus fire of even two people, much less three or four. And properly played clasess besides the three mentioned above wipe the floor with me, all of them with less access to abilities due to level, but somehow with more life. What happened to the class? Did Vengeance just fall out of the useless tree and hit every branch on the way down? tl;dr Veng Jugg seems way weaker, and the other classes have been buffed to the ****. *** man?

Fought this one Commando (part of an unranked 8-man premade) who had an assault cannon, was listed as "Commando" for his class, but was using Hold the Line? I've looked at talent calcs, but it says it's VG and PT only, as it should be. Did I miss something? Was this added to Commando's and every talent calc I've seen is just wrong? NM, I see it, it's a baseline skill now. Whoever did that dun goof'd.

Yeah, more or less this. Healer if you want to be safe, DPS if you're confident you can go quickly enough that OOC healing chances occur frequently. When I leveled, I found myself using Quinn up until about 30+, when I happened upon a good deal of customizeable 'Sin gear, which I used to trick Jaesa out with. She lasted until 50, when I fought the last storyline fight. By that point, Vette had been geared out with some high level mods and a pair of Columi pieces, and she was a beast. My experience, when everyone is geared, is that Vette is your best all-around DPS, and she does it from ranged, which means less trouble from AoE than if you were using Jaesa or Broonmark. Jaesa is the better single target damage by far, so if you can assure she'll be alive (leveling with a healer friend, or a partner using their healing companion) she'll wreck stuff like no one else. Broonmark and Pierce are melee and ranged tanks respectively. Same rules apply for Jaesa/Vette. Use Pierce if you need a tank against ranged, because it'll keep you out of the AoE Pierce will be soaking. Use Broon as a melee tank vs. melee, or a meaty DPS (although nothing compared to Jaesa/Vette). Quinn is obvious. Use him when you need healing, which generally occurs when you're doing stuff beyond your level. So orange quests, yellows if you are having trouble surviving them for whatever reason, heroics, or if you're with someone and your Quinn is more geared than their healer companion. So use this as a sort of guide if you're keeping everyone geared. If you can only keep one geared, your safest bet is to go with Quinn, because even though his DPS isn't great, he still does a decent job with it while also healing. If you can, shoot for 2; Quinn and either Jaesa or Vette, depending on preference.

The Sith way is freedom. I like LS Sith best of all the force users. LS Jedi are fun, but rather...blase. DS Jedi are equally blase, just like DS Sith. Yeah, you're evil. You do terrible things because you can. Big whoop. But LS Sith....that is true freedom. I think an early quest on Korriban has a guard exemplify the idea best. One of your conversation options with her gets her to respond that she's happy to see that the Sith embrace other emotions besides anger and fear. This led me to the conclusion that LS Sith is the "best" choice in terms of actually getting to maintain true humanity (or whatever it's called for non-humans). LS Jedi forgo all emotion because the code says emotion is bad and leads to the dark side. DS Jedi embrace all the things they wern't able to before under the code, and like a child kept from the vices of the world, they go nuts and drink deeply of the once-forbidden emotions. DS Sith focus exclusively on negative emotions as a path to power, believing anything besides fear, anger or hate to be worthless. But LS Sith employ the full spectrum of emotions. They feel all things and use all these feelings to aid them. MY LS Sith was very happy to hear that Jaesa wanted to stay with me, and I formally adopted her into my house as a daughter, even encouraged her to get married and have children. We talked about changing the Sith empire for the better from within, and the trials that we would have to go through in order to do that. It was an intimate, special moment of closeness between the two of us. Then I walked down the hall and had a wonderful conversation with Broonmark about how he was honored to be a part of my clan and would work to teach my as-yet-unborn young to hunt and kill worthy prey, and I praised him for his dedication to destruction, encouraging him to stay on and serve my legacy while he continued to hone his skills as a predator. It was great. Then of course, you play the JK story and you realize that going DS Sith is probably the worst thing you could do for the continued survival of everything, and LS Sith suddenly starts to, somehow, feel even more awesome.

Leap is not a stun. A stun means you can't take any action AND can be damaged while under its effect and it won't break. This is stuff like Backhand, Electrocute, Force Stun, and Dirty Kick. Leap is a root, which is viewed as a 100% snare. It prevents movement, but doesn't disable any other abilities. So a Sorc can still Overload, or a Commando can Concussive Charge, or a Sniper can Cover Pulse. Any ability can be used as long as it doesn't involve some kind of auto-movement (in this case, Charge/Leap/Jet Boost/Storm would qualify, meaning none of those skills would be useable while the person who can use them is rooted. Zealous Leap and Obliterate would also qualify). Secondly, and this is brief, but Awe is classified as a mezz, just like Flashbang. It breaks on any damage (including DoT damage) and lasts for six seconds (unlike Flashbang, which lasts for eight). Thirdly, putting roots on resolve would slightly nerf some parts of Carnage/Combat specs, but completely buff the crap out of Rage/Focus and Annihilation/Watchman, because it would mean that a Mara or Sent with full resolve could not be stopped for ten seconds. Sure, they couldn't leap to someone and root them, but they all have a native snare, and any Mara or Sent worth the name keeps his target snared 100% of the time. The only reliable way currently to ensure Mara's and Sent's don't have their way with every other class is via rooting and snaring. If you thought there was QQ now, there would be a tsunami of tears if they added roots to resolve. The idiots would trumpet it as a huge victory, while the Mara's and Sent's would rampage across WZ's like nothing seen before.

Mittens, is that you?!

Clearly that Jugg just had the misfortune of not having ANY of his CC abilities available. If he was Immortal he could have: Feared you. If you break it (if you can) then Backhand or Choke you to buy himself 4-5 seconds of free walking time. Push you. This resets his charge, and puts you in range of being charged (or else, if used immediately after you charge him, gives him essentially free reign to go where ever he pleases for the next 12s. Backhand and/or Choke you. If you break one, he applies the other. Assuming Vengeance, the same applies as above, only Push becomes much more dangerous, because he can then charge to you and become immune to everything you do for four seconds (yes, including your roots). He trades this for the stuns of Backhand/Choke and a lower Push CD, but gets a lower fear CD in the process. Assuming Rage, he might have been screwed, because all he has going for him is fear/choke/push, and in order for that to work he'd have to open with choke so you broke it and then follow with a fear or else push and do his best to aim you in the right direction. But even then, he had options. But it sounds like you happened upon a Jugg who literally had no cooldowns, and apparently no one willing or able to get into a position for a pass of some sort. As stated earlier though, roots on resolve would hurt ranged more than melee. As it stands now, even if a Cover Pulse from a Sniper doesn't knock me back with full resolve, I can still be rooted by Leg Shot, giving that Sniper time to get distance and set up again. But hey, if you really want to make Huttball a complete joke for any skilled Guardian or Jugg, be my guest. The Marauders will love you as well, since they'll be able to eat EVERYTHING for breakfast now.

Only one major ability "works" off of armor pen, and that's Rail Shot. A good portion of PT damage is elemental (Flame Burst, PGC dot, IM) with the other two major damage sources being classed as Tech Kinetic (ignores defense/shield but is mitigated by armor). And as already noted, PT/Vanguard are consistently the highest DPS classes, often tying and sometimes beating Mara/Sent damage. A nerf is needed for PT Pyrotech and Vanguard AS spec. Plain and simple. Likely Mara/Sent as well, but exactly how you can go about nerfing them in pvp without screwing pve is a tough problem to solve.

Good feedback here. Would rate you up if we had a system like that.

Knocked back Mara/sent ....right. I've had this bug a few times, and it's always been related to falling/dying within a very close time frame of each other. I.e. dying from being pushed off of the bridge in Voidstar, or getting killed right as an Op or 'Sin knocks me to the ground.

Lag? That's all I can guess, unless you're just measuring the distance wrong. The max range on it is ten meters, which is just a bit more than double maximum melee range (which is 4m). If you can melee them, then they are within 4m of you. If you can't but you can hit them with Deadly Throw, then they are somewhere between 5 and 10m away from you.

This'll fall on deaf ears I'm sure, but the main problem with Pyro/AS is that there is too much "guaranteed" damage. With the exception of Rail Shot/HiB, all of the major sources of damage a Pyro/AS puts out ignore shield and defense, and a decent chunk of that damage ignores armor. I'd like to see: TD/AP damage reduced by about 10%. Reduce the crit damage bonus of Firebug/Assault Trooper by 5% per rank (10% total). Flame Burst/Ion Pulse given a 4.5s CD. Proc chance on PPA increased from 45% to 50% for FB and IP. Talents in Tactics/AP and Shield Tech/Shield Spec added to reduce the CD down to 1.5s so those specs are not affected. Rail Shot armor ignore capped at 60%. Cut the talent in Tactics/AP from 60% to 45% and Ionic Accelerator/High Friction Bolts from 30% to 15%. Add the 15% armor pen onto Combat Tactics/Charged Gauntlets so AP/Tactics is not affected. Unload/Full Auto damage increased by ~15% through Firebug/Assault Trooper. This is a core BH/Trooper skill; let's make it something that Pyro/AS want to use. This should counterbalance the dps loss from the FB/IP CD and AP/TD damage decrease in pve, and a 3s channel on a 15s CD that has amazing heat efficiency is something that's great in pve but can be mitigated with skill and timing in pvp. If necessary, buff Rocket Punch/Stockstrike damage by 3-6%. The general idea here is a lowering of Pyro/AS burst while maintaining similar damage in a pve setting, but also by making it so that this damage is something that can be mitigated more easily in pvp with proper use of skills and timing (i.e. getting a quick interrupt on a Pyro right after he starts his Unload channel). A Pyro or AS left unmolested will still put out quite the hurt, but shifting some of the damage out of instants into Unload/Full Auto means the class itself requires more skill to play. And let's be honest, Pyro/AS is easily the most faceroll spec there is right now. I know there are good players out there who play Pyro/AS, you just don't notice them because it's so easy for a crappy player to use the spec and still get good results. Obviously these changes would affect Vanguards/PT's only. They wouldn't apply to Pyro/AS for Mercs/Commandos.

You answered your own question. Also, for the record, it's a two second root (which is what leap is untalented) and your root will ALWAYS work on another target unless that target is a Shadow or 'Sin who is using the Force/Tech immunity skill. However, Leap/Charge are counted as melee attacks, meaning they can be parried/dodged. You want to know how you, as a Shadow, can deal with that? Pop Deflection. If you parry the charge, the root doesn't land. Done and done. As for the perks that Shadows/'Sins have over Warriors/Knights: 30m stun 30m 8s CC that can be talented for an instant cast 10m ranged slow that can be talented for double duration and half cooldown AoE knockback Force/Tech immunity for 5-7 seconds (depending on spec) out of every 45 Talented pull in the tank tree Ability to use TK Throw/FL at 30m every 1.5 minutes with Recklessness/Force Potency Possesses a lot of damage that is unavoidable (Shock/Project, TKT/FL, Breach/Discharge, Wither/Slow Time, deep Madness/Balance builds) compared to Knights/Warriors which have, at most, three damage skills that are unavoidable (Scream/Storm, Sweep/Smash, Crush/Exhaustion) two of which are crap/unuseable without talents And of course....stealth. The ability to get into combat undetected while also ensuring an alpha strike if you're careful and skilled.

Both Vette and Jaesa are well-geared for me, and I've found that Jaesa will tear things down faster than Vette, but Vette is generally a safer bet due to being ranged. A lot of stuff that gives you problems in melee (think the 2 man heroic on Ilum) will just melt Jaesa but leave Vette more or less unharmed thanks to the fact that Vette will stay at range. In general, Jaesa does better single target while Vette does better aoe.

Ah yeah, that's right, I always confuse VT and DT. While I can see (and know firsthand) how good the 4-pc bonus is for Vengy Juggs, that's exactly why I don't think it's that great for Mara's. Vengy Juggs will get 4/5 of that extra damage all the time because they're immune to all CC, but my experience has been that if I charge into a Ravage I immediately get CC'ed/KB'ed before it has a chance to get past the first two hits. The only time I'll use Ravage is if my target is hard-CC'ed in some way, doesn't have a knockback/all of their CC is down, or else I have a full resolve bar. Otherwise I never seem to be able to get the whole thing off, and I spend most of my time snared and kited. Typically my first move after charging is to snare my target anyway, simply because I'm almost always knocked back and snared as soon as I make contact, and that's with saving my Charge for a mid-combat re-engagement following another knockback. Then again, most games I've been in have had 3-5 Sorcs in them lately, all coordinating knockbacks and Force Slow to keep melee off of them. Which is why I laugh when I see the Sorcs in the pvp forums complain about being destroyed my Mara's and Sent's; of course if you try and face tank a Mara you'll be destroyed, but a pair of Sorcs working in concert can keep a pair of Mara's perpetually out of melee range and snared almost full time while also killing them.

Yes, but the application of the burns is done via attacks that can be dodged and parried. I.e. Cauterize (and Rupture), when used, hits for white damage, then applies an elemental DoT. The initial application of Cauterize can be parried or dodged just like any other melee or ranged attack, meaning you won't apply the DoT effect. And since Cauterize/Rupture have a cooldown...well, you get it. Likewise, Overload Saber (Deadly Saber for Mara's) adds a stacking DoT when attacks connect with an opponent, but again, it relies on white damage melee attacks that can be avoided via defense in order to apply the DoT effect, so it's possible for those attacks to miss as well. However, due to how OS and DS work (the charges aren't consumed unless you make contact with the opponent) you are still very likely to get all three stacks on an opponent unless it's a Sin/Shadow or JK/SW under the affect of Deflection or Saber Ward.

I can't imagine 10% more damage for 5s after a leap will be useful at all against a decent group of players. I'd think the Undying CD reduction would be far far more useful, especially for Rage Mara's, not to mention the extra VT range (longer range root for Carnage).

To elaborate: There are four "types" of attacks, and four kinds of damage. Ranged and Melee attacks are run off of what's called "weapon damage" meaning the higher the damage of the weapon, the more damage the attacks deal. Each of these are marked in the skill book as "melee" or "ranged" and they are mitigated by defense and shield chance (i.e. you have a chance to parry/dodge/deflect them as well as shields having a chance to reduce the damage they deal by a certain percentage). These are represented by white damage numbers. Tech and Force attacks are, like Ranged or Melee attacks, labeled as such in the skill book. Tech and Force attacks ignore defense and shield chance; they will *always* hit unless used on a Shadow or Assassin who is under the effect of a certain skill (called Resilience for Shadows, not sure what it's called for 'Sin's). This one skill they have gives them from 3 to 5 seconds of 100% resistance to Tech and Force effects. It is currently the only player skill in game that gives this buff. Basically, for all practical purposes, Tech and Force attacks will almost always hit. These attacks are represented by yellow damage numbers. Force Scream is classed as a Force attack (as well as Smash, Choke and Exhaustion) and as such it will always hit a target unless you happen to Scream at a Shadow or 'Sin under the effect of their anti-Force-and-Tech cloak. Now, there are four types of damage. Weapon damage is all classed as either Kinetic or Energy. It's really just an aesthetic difference as both Kinetic and Energy damage is mitigated by armor. The other two types of damage are Internal and Elemental. Like Kinetic and Energy, it's largely an aesthetic difference. Both Internal and Elemental ignore armor, and all skills that deal Internal and Elemental damage are classed as Force or Tech attacks, so they will always ignore defense and shields. Currently, Marauders have no attacks that are classed as Force and Internal/Elemental. so every attack that they use is mitigated by armor (Deadly Saber is not an attack, but a buff to an attack. Each attack places a stacking DoT but the individual attacks can be blocked/dodged just like any other Melee attack). Scream is a Force Kinetic attack, so it's mitigated by armor, but ignores defense and shield. That's why Blood Frenzy + Gore in the Carnage tree can make for such a brutal combination; Blood Frenzy can be talented to give you an auto-crit Scream (which will always hit) while Gore gives you a -100% armor buff, meaning your Scream will crit for insane damage while you are under the Blood Frenzy buff.

Also resolve. If they have a full resolve bar Choke won't stop them, but will still deal damage (and build rage) as long as you channel. Also, if they break the choke it will break the stun, but you can continue the channel for more rage/damage if you want.