Why is there a delay on restoring Advance Reputation conquest points?

[Toraak]

Serious question. Just because people on these forums complain about this or that change, does it mean the majority of the playerbase doesn't like it? It has been well known for years that a small minority of the playerbase posts on these very forums

 

While I'm sure they are scrambling to make a change to it for sometime this week (hopefully to raise the reputation points by a decent amount), it doesn't mean they will fully restore it as some on these forums are demanding. Just like all other changes that have been made in Swtor, some will move on because of them, while the rest will adapt to the changes and continue gaming like normal.

Edited March 25 by Toraak

[Screaming_Ziva]

On 3/23/2024 at 1:59 PM, Saeten said:

Why is there a delay on restoring Advance Reputation conquest points? This should have been fixed already. At least restored to 50% of the original amount imho, but I'd prefer the original amount. The offset added objectives don't make up for it and the grind is horrible for the rewards. I understand their intention of making us play longer for the same old grindy rewards as a business decision. It's intentional, It's not what they should do as they need to make the game more enjoyable for end game. At least they should communicate what is happening.

-Frustrated Founder and long time subscriber.

I'm not sure why you're complaining about a delay (and no communication) when just a few days prior to your post Musco posted that they are "actively discussing all of the feedback".    They changed the reputation gain for a reason (that they described) and they're just not going to quickly change it back because of a few disgruntled people on the forum.

I sincerely doubt they're going to bring it back to where it was and it most likely won't even be 50% of where it was.

[Ahwassa]

So far I understand that a conquest objective (that is irrelevant for most long-time players) has been nerfed.

But I don´t understand what that has to do with Galactic seasons? Is it the reach 200 k points?

[Anhkriva]

14 minutes ago, Ahwassa said:

So far I understand that a conquest objective (that is irrelevant for most long-time players) has been nerfed.

But I don´t understand what that has to do with Galactic seasons? Is it the reach 200 k points?

It's not about the galactic season but about 100k conquest for the guild. Some players hate that they will now have to play the game a bit to get it.

[Ahwassa]

2 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

It's not about the galactic season but about 100k conquest for the guild. Some players hate that they will now have to play the game a bit to get it.

Ah ok.

But I think it´s good that the multiplayer aspects (world bosses, fps, pvp) of the game get more points that the solo stuff.

And again, most people are through with the reputation.

[SithLikeTraps]

49 minutes ago, Ahwassa said:

But I think it´s good that the multiplayer aspects (world bosses, fps, pvp) of the game get more points that the solo stuff.

It would be good. Unfortunately the only thing that was being buffed since the launch of 7.0 is the PVP and GSF stuff, most of the PVE conquest was nerfed by half or even more. That is the biggest problem: they keep nerfing pve things but give little to no alternatives. The new area dailies are not worth it with the time required to do them and with the rep gain practically removed, the fps queue times are quite long if you're not playing in the peak hour, the operations require a premade group which is again a time investment for not that much gain and if your guild don't run them you need to be lucky to catch one forming on the fleet.

I don't actually think that the rep nerf has anything to do with the season: if you intend to finish the seasons on the other servers you need to do at least some of the objectives, and usually by doing so you accumulate enough cps to do the 200k objective along the way.  No, to me it seems as yet another effort to herd people into doing the content they don't like to do, namely PVP and GSF, which hurts both the PVE players that either don't do it or just afk there and angry the PVP players due to that afk'ing or lack of skill.

[VegaMist]

On 3/25/2024 at 6:48 AM, Toraak said:

Serious question. Just because people on these forums complain about this or that change, does it mean the majority of the playerbase doesn't like it? It has been well known for years that a small minority of the playerbase posts on these very forums

While it is a small minority who post on the forums, they are a representation of the larger player base. Moreover, they are the ones that care enough to come to this forum rather than just complain in fleet chat or to people they know (or worse, leave without saying anything).

On 3/25/2024 at 6:48 AM, Toraak said:

While I'm sure they are scrambling to make a change to it for sometime this week (hopefully to raise the reputation points by a decent amount), it doesn't mean they will fully restore it as some on these forums are demanding. Just like all other changes that have been made in Swtor, some will move on because of them, while the rest will adapt to the changes and continue gaming like normal.

I hope it's fully restored, but, of course, noone can be sure of anything. If it's not... let's just say it's sad that decision makers in this game seem to be coming up with more and more ways of pushing their player base away, when you'd think their goal should be the opposite.

Edited March 30 by VegaMist
Typo

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, VegaMist said:

Why it is a small minority who post on the forums, they are a representation of the larger player base. Moreover, they are the ones that care enough to come to this forum rather than just complain in fleet chat or to people they know (or worse, leave without saying anything).

I hope it's fully restored, but, of course, noone can be sure of anything. If it's not... let's just say it's sad that decision makers in this game seem to be coming up with more and more ways of pushing their player base away, when you'd think their goal should be the opposite.

No matter what decisions any developer makes it is going to push players away. All Developers are in a no win situation for that. No company can satisfy 100% of it's players, it's impossible.

[Traceguy]

3 hours ago, Ahwassa said:

But I don´t understand what that has to do with Galactic seasons? Is it the reach 200 k points?

No. They could have simply made that objective "reach 1,000,000 points", and it wouldn't have effected any of us.

 

3 minutes ago, Toraak said:

No matter what decisions any developer makes it is going to push players away. All Developers are in a no win situation for that. No company can satisfy 100% of it's players, it's impossible.

Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Nobody was complaining about the conquest point reward being too high, and not a single person would complain or cancel their membership if it was reversed. There is a win situation here.

 

 

 

[Toraak]

Just now, Traceguy said:

No. They could have simply made that objective "reach 1,000,000 points", and it wouldn't have effected any of us.

 

Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Nobody was complaining about the conquest point reward being too high, and not a single person would complain or cancel their membership if it was reversed. There is a win situation here.

 

 

 

Probably true, but I highly doubt they'll fully reverse it. I expect it to be a compromise at best.

[Traceguy]

1 minute ago, Toraak said:

I highly doubt they'll fully reverse it

Based on all the responses we've gotten from the devs. I don't believe it will ever be reversed.

Anxiously waiting for 7.4.1c notes to see what they have planned. @JoeStramaglia originally said they added new objectives to offset the loss, but those new objectives failed to come close to offsetting the loss, and will be nullified when the season ends.

 

[Toraak]

Just now, Traceguy said:

Based on all the responses we've gotten from the devs. I don't believe it will ever be reversed.

Anxiously waiting for 7.4.1c notes to see what they have planned. @JoeStramaglia originally said they added new objectives to offset the loss, but those new objectives failed to come close to offsetting the loss, and will be nullified when the season ends.

 

Those new Objectives were a joke. I'm done with Seasons weekly objectives on Tuesday. I get no use out of some of those objectives after day 1.

[RushNFour]

I have played this game since beta, and only been unsubbed for maybe 12 months total throughout all the years (most of it being during 4.0 and again for 7.0.)  I will admit I did unsub again after the rep CQP nerfs.  This one thing isn't what made me decide to do it, but it was the last straw.  Since the launch of 7.0 they have continued to take away more and more of the little things I personally enjoyed doing in game, most of them repeatable things that didn't seem so grindy for me.   Nowadays I have far less desire to play because I enjoyed conquest because it was a quick hit goal every day and reaching it on two characters a day was totally doable and fun.  I really don't see why it had to be nerfed, it was fun, now it's not, simple as that.   I still love this game but I no longer feel I can continue to support what I consider to be really bad decisions by the dev team and the only way I can personally vote is with my wallet.  I only have a few hours left on my sub and my future will depend on how they handle the rep nerf.  It's not the reason why I feel this way, it's just the nail in the coffin.  If they revert it, I'll be back, have to show them that we will support them if they listen.  If they don't nerf it or only partially restore it, it's clear they're only ever going to remain closed minded and it's time for me go.

 

It's funny, it's such a small thing, yet for many of us it isn't because it's more a culmination of poor changes that have lead to this, for me anyway..

Edited March 25 by RushNFour

[Ryukomaru]

There was no need to nerf reputation conquest AND remove reputation track from galactic seasons.    Refusal to put it back is just spite at this point.

 

Ask yourself this.  As of 7.0 have they added more in than they have taken out?  

[Screaming_Ziva]

24 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Based on all the responses we've gotten from the devs. I don't believe it will ever be reversed.

Anxiously waiting for 7.4.1c notes to see what they have planned. @JoeStramaglia originally said they added new objectives to offset the loss, but those new objectives failed to come close to offsetting the loss, and will be nullified when the season ends.

 

They aren't going to add anything that is going to come close to offsetting the loss.  A single click got you 54k (I think) conquest points.

[Traceguy]

4 minutes ago, Screaming_Ziva said:

They aren't going to add anything that is going to come close to offsetting the loss.  A single click got you 54k (I think) conquest points.

It was 45k, and no, it was not a single click. Those tokens had to be earned, with required several clicks. One example for me is defeating FR3-DOM. That requires [WEEKLY] Price Of Freedom. To be eligible for that mission, you have to have completed the Kessan's Landing story. That has several thousand clicks, and a group of players. Rep Tokens don't spawn out of thin air just for logging in.

Edited March 25 by Traceguy

[VegaMist]

53 minutes ago, Toraak said:

No matter what decisions any developer makes it is going to push players away. All Developers are in a no win situation for that. No company can satisfy 100% of it's players, it's impossible.

This is an incorrect statement and a very pessimistic one at that - if this statement was accepted at face-value, then there would be no point for any development whatsoever (for any product). On the contrary, most companies operate under assumption that they are capable of satisfying vast majority of their target audiences - it doesn't have to be 100%, but the aim is to get as close to that number as possible. This is why companies do usability studies, surveys, create forums like this one, implement test servers, etc.

In case you didn't notice, multiple people who complained about this issue are either working in or are intimately familiar with development environment, so they know pretty well how the process works - not specifically at Broadsword, but in general.

Edited March 25 by VegaMist

[Stradlin]

10 hours ago, Traceguy said:

It was 45k, and no, it was not a single click. Those tokens had to be earned, with required several clicks. One example for me is defeating FR3-DOM. That requires [WEEKLY] Price Of Freedom. To be eligible for that mission, you have to have completed the Kessan's Landing story. That has several thousand clicks, and a group of players. Rep Tokens don't spawn out of thin air just for logging in.

Another example for acquiring a fast rep token would be the 1st railshooter pve mission, 4 mins of chill space pve.

Or any mission on CZ or Black Hole, some of them prolly even faster than the railshooter.

14 hours ago, Ahwassa said:

 

But I think it´s good that the multiplayer aspects (world bosses, fps, pvp) of the game get more points that the solo stuff.

And again, most people are through with the reputation.

Yeah basically..if solo pve stuff gives 10k conq for 10 mins of work, and multiplayer stuff gives 10k conq for 10 mins of work, then the solo content is always vastly superior due to the very nature of it.  By the looks of it, all  PvE stuff that needs groups to happen could really use a small buff, certainly the more difficult and time consuming bits. Like I'm not sure if Hammer Station should be more rewarding than it is..but I'm sure some longer/more difficult FP should be much more rewarding than Hammer Station.

 

Edited March 26 by Stradlin

[captainbladejk]

3 hours ago, Toraak said:

No matter what decisions any developer makes it is going to push players away. All Developers are in a no win situation for that. No company can satisfy 100% of it's players, it's impossible.

There's a clear way to win here, revert the nerf like it never happened. There was no valid reason to nerf it to start with. As another has already pointed out, if that's the new standard for game development the entire industry may as well shut down since no development can be had. I despise pvp with a burning passion, so any update revolving around it is useless patch data and a wasted update to me. However I'm not going to rage out at the devs for making a pvp update or demand it be nerfed purely because I'm not the target audience for that stuff like others have. 

Now while not every update is going to please everyone, again there is a clear win here which is reverting the nerf. While you may not be able to satisfy everyone all of the time you can absolutely do something about it when a large portion of your playerbase is saying "this is stupid and needs to be reverted". Contrary to popular belief of some people, devs are not always right. 

[captainbladejk]

2 hours ago, Ryukomaru said:

There was no need to nerf reputation conquest AND remove reputation track from galactic seasons.    Refusal to put it back is just spite at this point.

 

Ask yourself this.  As of 7.0 have they added more in than they have taken out?  

THIS. All of this. The rep token at least for me is the straw the broke the camels back in a long line of dumb decisions they've made. Combat styles forcing you to pick and choose between powers you've had since the start of the game or just after was a big one. They steal 5 abilities from you just to quantify it, then let you pick which one out of 3 they give you back is not new or exciting content, because you're still missing 3 powers while they pretend they've done us a favor, when in reality it's less game mixed with recycled content. That's not new or exciting. 

What's really infuriating with this rep nerf isn't strictly the fact they nerfed it needlessly, it's that they tried to stealth nerf it in before going "oopsie we forgot to list it", then on to essentially say "yeah we nerfed it, heck you gonna do about it" all in the same post that was nothing but a condescending word salad of corporate double speak insult to the players that was Eric's post. If they really believed the whole "every change effecting players should be communicated" bit then they would've made sure something that important was listed and double or even triple checked the notes before going out. "oopsie" is them forgetting a bug fix or something minor. That was just them being plain underhanded hoping it would slip under the radar and getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Now the only reason they're dragging their feet is because they're hoping that if they wait a little bit people will forget and it'll blow over. It could be fixed in 5 minutes if they wanted to, they just don't want to. If they hadn't pulled the underhanded route then tried to dev-splain it away we wouldn't be in this mess. Of course some people just don't want to see that. 

[DeannaVoyager]

11 hours ago, Traceguy said:

Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Nobody was complaining about the conquest point reward being too high, and not a single person would complain or cancel their membership if it was reversed. There is a win situation here.

Except for a few GSF players. And even they only complained AFTER it was nerfed, probably for brownie points.

[OrcaNation]

People seriously crying and unsubbing because a few conquest points got taken away? What has the world come to! If you put the same amount of effort into playing the game as moaning in this and the other thread you would have made those points up hundreds of times over. Awaiting flaming but really,move on. 😂

[captainbladejk]

1 hour ago, OrcaNation said:

People seriously crying and unsubbing because a few conquest points got taken away? What has the world come to! If you put the same amount of effort into playing the game as moaning in this and the other thread you would have made those points up hundreds of times over. Awaiting flaming but really,move on. 😂

Says the guy complaining about other people complaining. So by your own logic, when can we nerf GSF and PVP into the ground since you can literally get paid for doing nothing? 

[Traceguy]

15 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Another example for acquiring a fast rep token would be the 1st railshooter pve mission, 4 mins of chill space pve.

Or any mission on CZ or Black Hole, some of them prolly even faster than the railshooter.

Completed those rep tracks in 2014. In case you or someone else here doesn't already know, when you max a rep track, you can't use rep tokens. I've also completed endgame rep tracks like Ruhnuk and Ossus.

Edited March 26 by Traceguy

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

Completed those rep tracks in 2014. In case you or someone else here doesn't already know, when you max a rep track, you can't use rep tokens. I've also completed endgame rep tracks like Ruhnuk and Ossus.

Yeah that's one issue with rep tokens being such incredibly good conquest. More established the legacy, more trouble you have with this stuff. I've slacked with space pve and some other bars more than most older accounts. So I have a very cosy, fast lane to rep dings.  Somebody who has been diligent with maxing reputation  bars has their legacy entirely shut away from nice and easy coq gains via rep dings.