Planned Class Changes for 7.3

[AdjeYo]

3 hours ago, sithBracer said:

What are you talking about? It is middle of the road on brontes and it is in line with all the others when you look at the spread: https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/dread-master-brontes/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ . And also, you and I both know that for brontes the most important thing is not the overall parse but the burst phases to take care of the clock phase and fingers phase, both of which scrapper excels in. lets not forget it can cheese the orbs phase (we both know how much you like to point out cheeses).

And of course it isn't there on council, ruffian/lethality is just so amazing there and can take care of so many phases, why would you not use it? What is it you are trying to prove, that it is not meta? I admit it already. I also admit it could use a small sustained buff (maybe extend acid blade and raise damage a bit). But it is still far from "hot garbage", even on brontes like you said.

As for hatred, this has been explained to you already and proven with many different examples. Hatred does not need a nerf because it is not at the top of any of the harder boss parses, not even the single target ones. As it stands, even based on BWs on words, hatred SHOULD be at the top. Why? lets go over the reasons.

1. It is the squishiest spec in the entire game, making it more of a burden for healers (and the "sustained" self heals you talk about are useless).

2. It is a melee spec so it requires special positioning in order to do dps which leads to things like downtime, and a bigger burden on some bosses where space is limited, usually more mechanics it has to deal with, and more damage it has to take.

3. It is a DoT spec. which means it requires setup time for the damage to ramp up. So because of that it can't take care of some phases that require quick burst.

4. It brings nothing to the raid group in terms of utility, not even a debuff that 5 other specs have.

All of these things combined make it a bigger burden to bring than many other classes/specs, therefore in order to compensate, it needs to have the highest dps. Does it? I believe I have more than proved that it doesn't, at least not where it counts. So why is it getting nerfed? Well, I think anyone rational would say that it shouldn't be.

INB4 "but muh jugg muh jugg"

No one is asking jugg to be nerfed and I am perfectly fine with hatred staying even beneath it like it is in many boss parses at the moment. I am just asking for hatred to not get a needless nerf, unless BW wants to compensate it with more defenses, raid utility or even range-which isn't happening and history says it never will.

Also, the person I was replying wasn't complaining about concealment as it is now, he was complaining about the 1.4 PvP nerf which is something concealment mains haven't shut up about for 9 years (#nerfOperatives amirite). They need to get over it already. Concealment was OP in PvP all throughout 6.X while deception (since you mentioned it) was nerfed into the ground after 2 months, and then nerfed 4 times more for fun. And don't even get me started on severing slash. Do I need to talk about 5.X PTs? 4.X sins being the least mobile melee spec in the game? 3.X maras being complete garbage until 3.3? Concealment had it good for a while, especially in PvP. They need get over that one nerf 9 years ago already.

What are you talking about? Can you read boxplots? It's third quartile is okay, but have a look at that right whisker my man. That's the 25% of very best Concealment parses being between 21.6k and 21.9k. Look at what the other melee's and even someting like Virulence and IO are parsing. If you're bringing Concealment you're shooting yourself and your team in the foot. It's baaaaaad. 

Again go back to parsely and you'll see Hatred putting out very solid numbers on Brontes, its dps is fine where it is. Just like every other dps it brings 2 debuffs (though admittedly, Armour Break is the best of those and Hatred doesn't have it). After a nerf to Pyro (ridiculous damage for ages now) and Vengeance (mostly for its ridiculous AoE scaling single target damage) Hatred will be among the very best specs to bring with high single target sustained and solid AoE. Could use a slight buff to its defensives, but honestly is one of the better specs out there. Certainly far superior to Concealment. 

[sithBracer]

4 hours ago, AdjeYo said:

What are you talking about? Can you read boxplots? It's third quartile is okay, but have a look at that right whisker my man. That's the 25% of very best Concealment parses being between 21.6k and 21.9k. Look at what the other melee's and even someting like Virulence and IO are parsing. If you're bringing Concealment you're shooting yourself and your team in the foot. It's baaaaaad. 

Ok lets take a look at it. Virulence top quartile is 21.5. AP is 21.6, rage is 22.4, TK is 20.3, fury is 19.5, deception is 21.4 (and this is a fight deception excels at thanks to phantom stryde being reset on clock phase for each bot) and the EXTREMELY OP SO IT NEEDS TO BE NERFED hatred is 22.6. Idk, concealment seems to be in line with the other burst specs and is below he extremely squishy DoT spec with nothing to offer, like it should be. As for the maximum, I don't look at that and neither does parsely when it ranks it because as far as we know it could just be one person who got EXTREMELY lucky or he and his group purposely set things up so he could get a high parse. Median and upper quartile are what is important and that is how parsely ranks it as well. As I said before, concealment is not meta and could use a small sustained buff, I even gave an example of one that will work. Based off the numbers you yourself chose, I'm not wrong. The numbers that once again YOU CHOSE do not prove that concealment is "hot garbage" or "baaaaaad". That would be fury and tk.

I really don't understand why you are comparing hatred to concealment on this fight. Hatred is horrible during clock phase because it has a long setup and it takes time to ramp up DoT damage. Hatred doesn't have a self cleanse/purge for kephess DoT because it needs to save its shroud for orb. Hatred DoT spread on the finger phase, while bumping its numbers up, its squishiness and trash DCDs will be a bigger burden on the already overburdened healer, and the Dot spread/AoE might take one finger aggro away from healer causing a wipe.

Also, I really don't think you are serious about having an honest discussion at this point, and are arguing just for the sake of arguing, so I won't be responding anymore. You can have the last word, I won't be reading it.

Edited May 7, 2023 by sithBracer

[ZUHFB]

29 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

I really don't understand why you are comparing hatred to concealment on this fight. Hatred is horrible during clock phase because it has a long setup and it takes time to ramp up DoT damage. Hatred doesn't have a self cleanse/purge for kephess DoT because it needs to save its shroud for orb. Hatred DoT spread on the finger phase, while bumping its numbers up, its squishiness and trash DCDs will be a bigger burden on the already overburdened healer, and the Dot spread/AoE might take one finger aggro away from healer causing a wipe.

Oh jesus christ. 

Hatred is just fine in clock phase due to reapers rush and eradicate being fast enough, it also has a 30m DoT so it doesn't even lose uptime. Hatred doesn't need a self cleanse, thats what healers are for and no, you do not need to shroud the orbs since you could just take them on high stacks, losing maybe 1 or 2 gcds to stun/creeping terror if you really want to play it safe I guess but there is no harm in taking it with 15+ stacks, of course without losing uptime. Healing a hatred dps shouldn't be a big problem, if the player knows what they are doing but that is the same for concealment.

But to sum it up, I think your last sentence really does paint the picture: You cannot take the aggro away, they aggro on range, they always attack the closest player - no matter who that is. It has nothing to do with aggro. The pure fact that you did not know this already disqualifies any informed class opinion that you bring to the table.

35 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

You can have the last word, I won't be reading it.

You should start reading some guides instead, true.

[sithBracer]

21 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

But to sum it up, I think your last sentence really does paint the picture: You cannot take the aggro away, they aggro on range, they always attack the closest player - no matter who that is. It has nothing to do with aggro. The pure fact that you did not know this already disqualifies any informed class opinion that you bring to the table.

If that is the case, I admit I was wrong on one detail. Doesn't change anything else I said, nor does it invalidate anything else I said. Now go complain about premades some more.

Edited May 7, 2023 by sithBracer

[ZUHFB]

14 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

If that is the case, I admit I was wrong on one detail. Doesn't change anything else I said, nor does it invalidate anything else I said.

That is what the first paragraph is doing, you know? The one you didn't quote?

[sithBracer]

6 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

That is what the first paragraph is doing, you know? The one you didn't quote?

There was nothing in there worth addressing. Aside from the eradicate on phantom stride, which btw still doesn't make that much of a difference when comparing hatred to burst specs on clock phase, everything was just nonsense.

[UinixLP]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

Ok lets take a look at it. Virulence top quartile is 21.5. AP is 21.6, rage is 22.4, TK is 20.3, fury is 19.5, deception is 21.4 (and this is a fight deception excels at thanks to phantom stryde being reset on clock phase for each bot) and the EXTREMELY OP SO IT NEEDS TO BE NERFED hatred is 22.6. Idk, concealment seems to be in line with the other burst specs and is below he extremely squishy DoT spec with nothing to offer, like it should be. As for the maximum, I don't look at that and neither does parsely when it ranks it because as far as we know it could just be one person who got EXTREMELY lucky or he and his group purposely set things up so he could get a high parse. Median and upper quartile are what is important and that is how parsely ranks it as well. As I said before, concealment is not meta and could use a small sustained buff, I even gave an example of one that will work. Based off the numbers you yourself chose, I'm not wrong. The numbers that once again YOU CHOSE do not prove that concealment is "hot garbage" or "baaaaaad". That would be fury and tk.

I really don't understand why you are comparing hatred to concealment on this fight. Hatred is horrible during clock phase because it has a long setup and it takes time to ramp up DoT damage. Hatred doesn't have a self cleanse/purge for kephess DoT because it needs to save its shroud for orb. Hatred DoT spread on the finger phase, while bumping its numbers up, its squishiness and trash DCDs will be a bigger burden on the already overburdened healer, and the Dot spread/AoE might take one finger aggro away from healer causing a wipe.

Also, I really don't think you are serious about having an honest discussion at this point, and are arguing just for the sake of arguing, so I won't be responding anymore. You can have the last word, I won't be reading it.

why are you saying clock phase or fingers is the most important phase huh?

BY far the most important phase of brontes is burn. Also the worst phase for conc, due to heavy downtime and movement (and the lack of actual offensive cooldowns)

[sithBracer]

12 minutes ago, UinixLP said:

why are you saying clock phase or fingers is the most important phase huh?

BY far the most important phase of brontes is burn. Also the worst phase for conc, due to heavy downtime and movement (and the lack of actual offensive cooldowns)

I don't really see where in the quote I said it is the "most important" but those are the phases that people wipe on a lot. Sure hatred has the advantage during the the burn phase and burn phase is one of the big ones as well. Not sure what your point is though.

Lets try it this way right now the upper quartile for hatred is 22.6 (and part of it comes from DoT spread), it is getting nerfed so it will not even be that high. The upper quartile for concealment is 21.7 and it is a burst spec with a pretty good raid buff and self cleanse. Where would you like the numbers to be in order for it to be fair?

Edited May 7, 2023 by sithBracer

[UinixLP]

4 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

I don't really see where in the quote I said it is the "most important" but those are the phases that people wipe on a lot. Sure hatred has the advantage during the the burn phase and burn phase is one of the big ones as well. Not sure what your point is though.

Lets try it this way right now the upper quartile for hatred is 22.6 (and part of it comes from DoT spread), it is getting nerfed so it will not even be that high. The upper quartile for concealment is 21.7 and it is a burst spec with a pretty good raid buff and self cleanse. Where would you like the numbers to be in order for it to be fair?

man the highest conc burn parse is 22k. thats 2/3rd of what pt is doing
and hatred is doing 26k there? and its a mid spec for that even.

saying that conc is anything but trash in current pve is just not understanding how content works

[sithBracer]

6 minutes ago, UinixLP said:

man the highest conc burn parse is 22k. thats 2/3rd of what pt is doing
and hatred is doing 26k there? and its a mid spec for that even.

saying that conc is anything but trash in current pve is just not understanding how content works

Why are you concentrating on the highest? Parsely themselves don't take that into account when ordering the specs. It could just be one guy who got extremely lucky or he and his group carefully planned it to get him the highest parse (yes people do this when they have the raids on farm).

If the highest is all you care about vengeange would be considered better than all but one spec. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by sithBracer

[UinixLP]

3 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

Why are you concentrating on the highest? Parsely themselves don't take that into account when ordering the specs. It could just be one guy who got extremely lucky or he and his group carefully planned it to get him the highest parse (yes people do this when they have the raids on farm).

If the highest is all you care about vengeange would be considered better than all but one spec. 

yes taking all parses into account, even the bots is good xD

vengeance isnt even close to beeing at the top of brontes?

 

conc has:
no aoe
average ST

second worst melee defensives

no utility

and is a 4m spec

[sithBracer]

5 minutes ago, UinixLP said:

yes taking all parses into account, even the bots is good xD

vengeance isnt even close to beeing at the top of brontes?

 

conc has:
no aoe
average ST

second worst melee defensives

no utility

and is a 4m spec

Concealment is a single target burst spec.

It has a roll invincibility.

It has a self cleanse and purge and a raid buff.

Once again. I will ask you this simple question: right now the upper quartile for hatred is 22.6 (and part of it comes from DoT spread), it is getting nerfed so it will not even be that high. The upper quartile for concealment is 21.7 and it is a burst spec with a pretty good raid buff and self cleanse. Where would you like the numbers to be in order for it to be fair?

Edited May 7, 2023 by sithBracer

[UinixLP]

2 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Concealment is a single target burst spec.

It has a roll invincibility.

It has a self cleanse and purge and a raid buff.

Once again. I will ask you this simple question: right now the upper quartile for hatred is 22.6 (and part of it comes from DoT spread), it is getting nerfed so it will not even be that high. The upper quartile for concealment is 21.7 and it is a burst spec with a pretty good raid buff and self cleanse. Where would you like the numbers to be in order for it to be fair?

the term "burst" spec in pve is mislead. Conc is one of the least burty classes in the entire game (to the point a tank will outburst you), so will lethality btw.

roll invincibility is not that useful nowdays with 60% aoe DR on evasion. In itself rolling is a massive dps loss for con, due to relying on lacerates to refresh acid blade

Besides the aoe dr/roll immunity (wich are the same thing) conc has the worst defensives out of ANY melee class  (only Mercs have worse) with literally 0 DR spells.

some of the hardest healchecks ingame include a&e, nahut p1/burn what exactly does conc use there?

having self cleanse is nice, but its nothing special 6/8 classes have selfcleanse and there is 1 (ONE) fight where it semi matters

raid buffs are hugely overrated with a whopping 0.1% dmg increase from the strongest damage raidbuff (from mara) and even among raidbuffs operative has the worst.

conc atm is middle tier st if it can tunnel

it will get heavily out dps'd by hatred/pyro/anni/leth even on just ST alone
while those classes have:
alot more aoe, (sometimes alot) better defensives, insane utility (in the case of anni/pyro) and often are even easier to play

 

how is this class together with arsenal not some of the worst pve specs ingame atm??? and how is it not getting buffed?

[sithBracer]

5 minutes ago, UinixLP said:

the term "burst" spec in pve is mislead. Conc is one of the least burty classes in the entire game (to the point a tank will outburst you), so will lethality btw.

stopped reading right there. have a good day.

[UinixLP]

9 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

stopped reading right there. have a good day.

and this is why pvp'ers shouldnt comment on pve
imagine thinking conc is a burst spec in pve

[AdjeYo]

8 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Ok lets take a look at it. Virulence top quartile is 21.5. AP is 21.6, rage is 22.4, TK is 20.3, fury is 19.5, deception is 21.4 (and this is a fight deception excels at thanks to phantom stryde being reset on clock phase for each bot) and the EXTREMELY OP SO IT NEEDS TO BE NERFED hatred is 22.6. Idk, concealment seems to be in line with the other burst specs and is below he extremely squishy DoT spec with nothing to offer, like it should be. As for the maximum, I don't look at that and neither does parsely when it ranks it because as far as we know it could just be one person who got EXTREMELY lucky or he and his group purposely set things up so he could get a high parse. Median and upper quartile are what is important and that is how parsely ranks it as well. As I said before, concealment is not meta and could use a small sustained buff, I even gave an example of one that will work. Based off the numbers you yourself chose, I'm not wrong. The numbers that once again YOU CHOSE do not prove that concealment is "hot garbage" or "baaaaaad". That would be fury and tk.

I really don't understand why you are comparing hatred to concealment on this fight. Hatred is horrible during clock phase because it has a long setup and it takes time to ramp up DoT damage. Hatred doesn't have a self cleanse/purge for kephess DoT because it needs to save its shroud for orb. Hatred DoT spread on the finger phase, while bumping its numbers up, its squishiness and trash DCDs will be a bigger burden on the already overburdened healer, and the Dot spread/AoE might take one finger aggro away from healer causing a wipe.

Also, I really don't think you are serious about having an honest discussion at this point, and are arguing just for the sake of arguing, so I won't be responding anymore. You can have the last word, I won't be reading it.

Who cares about clock phase, if clock phase is a dps problem for your group then you'll never get through burn anyway. Hatred does just fine, Phantom Stride plus Eradicate maybe slap on a discharge and throw in an Assassinate/Leeching Strike and you've done enough of your share for the first droid. While. Moving you've got your 30m Creeping Terror to set up.

Hatred is far, far superior to Concealment (or really most specs except Pyro and Vengeance, maybe Anni) on this fight. And on burn, where survivability really matters, your heals actually contribute, since you're unlikely to ever be at 100% and overheal, which is the problem with self heals versus very bursty damage.

Even if you're using Shroud for orbs (which you can take with the 30% DR from Mass Mind Control just fine btw), you can always just Cloak to cleanse yourself (it has a baseline cleanse nowadays, Assassins actually have a lot of cleanses, it's one of their positives). Hatred can dish out a ton of damage on burn, can take orbs like a champ when need be, and has way better defensives than you give it credit for. If you rotate your Shroud and Mass Mind Control properly you'll be just fine in burn dtps-wise.

And yes, let's ignore the top 25% of parses because the oracle has decided only the third quartile and median matter. What a joke, if your median and upper quartile are similar, and your top value is a lot lower, you're going to have significanty lower numbers overall.

And yes it's so padded from spread on a fight where you get maybe one or two dots spread on the entire fight. I specifically chose Brontes because there's barely any dotspreading as to not give Hatred that advantage over Concealment. I mean we could look at someting like Draxus or Grobby with tons of dotspreading. Oh wait it's pretty much the bottom spec on those fights, who could've guessed? Brontes is a fight Concealment should do well on, lots of target swapping, barely any AoE to do. And yet even there it's competing for bottom spots. 

[Venjirai]

Who only cares about raiding.
Hatred is not fine in pvp and needs a defensive buff there. Period.

[JadeXII]

Quote

Sniper/Gunslinger:

• The knockback effect that used to be Reestablished Range will be placed on Ruthless Efficiency. 
  • Our intent for the change to the knockback was primarily done so that players in PVE would not accidentally move mobs out of the group's range or into dangerous spots that could potentially kill the group. 
  • We shifted this effect to the utility Ruthless Efficiency, so that players can opt into the previous playstyle with the knockback, the heal while in cover, or Damage Reduction. 

 

Thanks very much for this!!!! 👍

[Shabir_Dhillon]

Hey everyone just wanted to give an update on some changes based on some feedback from PTS. These changes will be available to test on the next round of PTS.

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• The knockback for Series of Shots/Speed shot and Penetrating Blasts/Penetrating Rounds has been moved to Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low from Ruthless Efficiency/ Efficient Ammo. 

Dev Notes: After looking through the feedback and seeing some data from PTS we found that the knockback changes synergize better on Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low over Ruthless Efficiency/Efficient Ammo for both PvE and PvP players. 

Powertech/Vanguard: 

• Energized Vambrace - Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.
• Prototype Weapon Systems/Havoc Training - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Magnetic Blast, Retractable Blade, Thermal Detonator, and Energy Burst by 15% up from 10%. 

Dev Notes: After looking through some feedback, data, and some experimentation on PTS with the tactical, it had become clear that too much power was placed on it. To compensate, we removed Energy Burst and Rail Shot from the damage bonus and shifted a buff to the critical damage on various abilities. This should help keep the power distributed and open the door for more itemization for Advanced Prototype/Tactics. 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. 
 

[AdjeYo]

Nice changes, the Tactical was a bit much for AP's burst. I shudder at back to back 20% increased damage Energy Bursts in PvP. Hope they'll be able to compete a bit better in operations now with the damage boost (though I think as long as Pyro remains untouched, it will always be outshone by Pyro).

As for the Sniper change, this makes a lot more sense. I'm still of the opinion that little changes for PvE as far as the knockback is concerned, it hardly ever matters, but it does allow Snipers to pick up heal in cover or the DR on Meticulous preparation in PvP. Though it does mean Pillbox Sniper becomes nearly mandatory in PvP with reduced Entrench CD, further knockback on Cover Pulse and and an extra knockback. But I suppose that's fine.

[Exocor]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Shabir_Dhillon:

Hey everyone just wanted to give an update on some changes based on some feedback from PTS. These changes will be available to test on the next round of PTS.

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• The knockback for Series of Shots/Speed shot and Penetrating Blasts/Penetrating Rounds has been moved to Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low from Ruthless Efficiency/ Efficient Ammo. 

Dev Notes: After looking through the feedback and seeing some data from PTS we found that the knockback changes synergize better on Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low over Ruthless Efficiency/Efficient Ammo for both PvE and PvP players. 

Powertech/Vanguard: 

• Energized Vambrace - Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.
• Prototype Weapon Systems/Havoc Training - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Magnetic Blast, Retractable Blade, Thermal Detonator, and Energy Burst by 15% up from 10%. 

Dev Notes: After looking through some feedback, data, and some experimentation on PTS with the tactical, it had become clear that too much power was placed on it. To compensate, we removed Energy Burst and Rail Shot from the damage bonus and shifted a buff to the critical damage on various abilities. This should help keep the power distributed and open the door for more itemization for Advanced Prototype/Tactics. 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. 
 

 

Are those changes on PTS already? I'm already seeing the updated text, both in the ability tree and in the description of the tactical.

[meddani]

6 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Powertech/Vanguard: 

• Energized Vambrace - Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.
• Prototype Weapon Systems/Havoc Training - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Magnetic Blast, Retractable Blade, Thermal Detonator, and Energy Burst by 15% up from 10%. 

 

still a top tier tactical for AP, but that's not hard to achieve since AP doesn't have a good tactical to begin with lol

edit: can you give back the berserk/zen autocrit for fury/concentration? never understood why it was removed...

Edited May 10, 2023 by meddani

[SentinalMasterWW]

Since a lot of these class changes are for PVP and PVE, There are still some changes that need to be made for specs. These are just my Opinions though 

Madness/Balance (PVP)

This spec in its current state it way too "tanky" which doesn't make sense as sorcs are essentially wearing cloth robes not heavy armor. Their self healing is way too strong (Around 40K Average on Force Leach), Deathbrand is still way to strong, and Demolish does turbo DMG especially under polarity shift. 

Here are some options. 

1. Nerf the Self healing of Force Leach, I'd say around 10-20%, Instead of healing for 40K it should heal for 15-20K at most. Hatred/Serenity heals for this much but Sorcs have self healing and Force Leach is also ranged. 

2. Reduce the Passive DOT DMG Resistance from 15% to 10% to 5%, this spec is wearing Cloth robes it shouldn't be able to take as much DMG as it does now. 

3. Nerf The Gathering Storm Package, Force speed and Polarity shift getting 20% DMG bonus is insane, Especially Force Speed, I'd reduce the DMG Bonus for force speed to like 10%, Polarity shift is fine and can stay at 20% as it can only be used around every 2 mins or so. but Force speed has a cooldown of like 10-12 Secs. 

-Reduce the DMG Done by Demolish again maybe by 10-20% 

-Remove the Plaguemaster Mod, It can maybe be turned into a Tactical for a burst focused spec, but plague master is just broken right now for PVP

-Maybe take a look at nerfing the slow done by deathbrand/Shift, Maybe Reducing it from 50% to 30% (I.e the same as Interrogation probe for Engineering.)  

Lightning/Telekinetic (PVE & PVP) 

This spec if suffering from just Poor DMG in General, the Buff to Stormwatch is nice, but this Spec just needs its abilities buffed all across the board. 

Concealment/Scrapper (PVP & PVE) 

This spec suffers the same fate as lightning, Poor DMG, It can be a pest in PVP but the issue is that Lethality is far better, It has roll healing, better DMG Overall, and is just better than concealment. The other issue for PVP and PVE is that Concealment is single minded focused that it struggles against multiple opponents.  Overall I think Concealment should get a buff to its DMG. 

Deception/Infiltration (PVP) 

 The issue for this spec is its DMG and CC's. I think Low slash should be reworked as an immobilize rather than a Stun alongside reducing the range from 30M to melee range so like 10-15M, next to neural trigger its annoying the amount of CC spam this spec can throw out. I'd also reduce the Crit stacking, Maybe from 20% to 15% to 10% crit DMG bonus. 

Marksman/Sharpshooter (PVE & PVP) 

-The issue for this spec is it just does no DMG or pitiful DMG at most. B-0 Tactical can give a nice DMG bonus but too many times is the attack absorbed or it misses entirely, so you'd line up this big burst window only for it to miss or do no DMG at all.

 -Agitating Energies also needs a buff, at most it makes your Dart do like 3K more DMG, it should do double that, so like 6K extra DMG on Corrosive Dart. 

-Ambush and Follow-through also need to do more DMG around like a 10% DMG buff for both. Maybe even look at buffing Takedown as well for this spec alone. 

Virulence/Dirty Fighting (General)

-This Spec is decent right now, but Additional buffs to either Cull or Viral Targeting would be nice and appreciated. 

Immortal/Defense (PVP) 

-This spec really doesn't do the job of "tanking" well. The issue is that more people play it as DPS Tank rather than an actual Defense based Tank. I think the DMG of this and Perhaps PT/VG's Tank should be reduced, but increase their survivability and innate tankiness. The role of a tank is to take hits and have the enemy focus you, not be an off brand DPS Spec. 

Gunnery/Arsenal (PVP & PVE)

This spec suffer from poor sustained DMG. It can put out a nice burst with the Concentrated fire Package and the max charges of High impact bolt but it still does sad DMG. 

I'm going to requote a post I made on this, 

Quote

Change the Grav Round mod that increases Vortex bolt DMG to either one of these possible paths 

1. Grav Round Critical Hit DMG is increased by 20% and Applies Trauma to the Target, Trauma Reduces all Healing the Target Receives by 20% for 10 Seconds. 

2. Nova Round: Fires a Round that Creates a Gravity Vortex on the Target Dealing X DMG and Causing X Internal DMG over 18 Seconds. Target's Armor is also Crushed and Reduced by 20% for 45 Secconds. Nova Round leaves the Target Vulnerable to High Impact bolt and increases the DMG they take from Demolition round for 45 Seconds. Replaces Grav Round. 

Buff the Mod that increases Demo Round Crit DMG. from 10% to 20-25%. 

I'd Rework the Prime Ignition tactical to have Boltstorm, Grav Round, and Demo Round not only Tick the DMG but also Refresh it. 

The Goal I had with Gunnery was that it lacked good sustained DMG, By giving it an optional DOT Replacer ability and having Prime Ignition get refreshed and tick its DMG, I think it would vastly improve Gunnery's usefulness and make it more viable for harder endgame content along with PVP.

Innovative Ordinance/Assault Specialist (PVE & PVP) 

This spec has the same issues, but moreso in the fact that this spec has energy issues and also its burst is not that strong, PVE its decent, but compared to other specs in PVP its lacking. 

-Give us some form of Passive Energy Regen from our Serrrated Round and Inc. Round. It would make Energy management a bit easier since we lost a lot of our built in Energy Regen with 7.0. 

-Buff Magshot and Assault Plastique/Thermal Detonator, This spec is more hybrid and the Burst really isnt that great right now. If we could get like a 10-15% DMG buff on these abilites that would at least help in some form.  

-I'd Also maybe look into creating a tactical akin to Ultraviolet blast, Maybe make it so Full auto finishes all your DOT's on the target but increase the cooldown of full auto. 

I also want to add that for Merc's/Commandos in General, they have little to no mobility. Hold the line is to short, Cooldown is to long, and the Speed bonus is too low. If It was VG's/PTS HTL/HO, than it would be a bit better. I'd also look at just making Propulsion round a thing this spec gets by Default, The issue is that no one is going to give up Echoing Deterrence for Propulsion round, ED is needed for PVP/PVE for staying alive. 

Lethality/Ruffian (PVP)

Overall this spec just needs its Self healing done by Roll reduced, they can heal for up to 30-40K. Either Reduce the self healing, or at least increase the cooldown on the Passive that lets them instantly heal via roll. 

Hatred/Serenity (PVP) 

This spec is great at PVE, but its a glass cannon in PVP. These are some changes to make it better 

-Buff Serenity/Leaching Strike at least by 15-20%, This is a melee heal and needs to heal more to compesate for it. I'd also make it so serenity/leaching strike never misses, compared to force leach which always hits, leaching/serenity strike misses a lot. I'd also look into making it affected by Recklessness/Force Potency for additional healing during its burst windows. 

-Replace the Armor Penetration mod on Deathfield/Force in Balance for Deathbrand/Shifted balance, this is the spec that would make sense for a a dedicated single target ability with the slow, This spec needs additional self healing and the slow to snare its targets. 

I understand this is a wall of text but there was a lot I wanted to say/Suggest for making these specs more viable. I wanted to give @Shabir_Dhillon at least a general Idea of where each class stands right now for either PVP or PVE, and hopefully we can see some general changes. A lot of you may disagree with me on some things, but again this is just my Opinion and perhaps others.

[LukasLukasLukas]

17 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• The knockback for Series of Shots/Speed shot and Penetrating Blasts/Penetrating Rounds has been moved to Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low from Ruthless Efficiency/ Efficient Ammo. 

@Shabir_Dhillon thank you for listetning to feedback 🙂

On the other hand, any chance we could have feedback on: 

1. Evasive Manuvers not working against attack from some classes (i.e. PT AP)

2. Re-establish range not preventing slows (this might be evasive manuvers not working) - to be cleare sometimes when I pop up evasive manuever getting out of cover with entrench im still slowed by force lighting and upload (that merc channel blaster ability)

In addition, can we add some more tacticals for sniper? I've a feeling that the entire class could be "fixed" by adding more tacticals i.e

1. Tactical that would give heal on roll/holo and heal under ballistic shield - you trade all big burst tactical for this one

2. Tactical that gives MM two stacks of Ambush (make instant ambush a talent to select)

3. Add some more healing to Kolto Bombardment

4. Add tacticals that would boost diversion either by adding damage reduction or more accu reduction

 

My point for tactical is that, especially for PvP there is one tactical for each discipline and that is all; essentially ppl are forced to use one where sorc has like 2-3 tactical that they can use and entire class balance could be achieved by simply adding tacticals to change game play - just a thought for the future

[meddani]

7 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

 

"pls destroy madness and overbuff mercs" 

madness isn't even that great in pve btw, oh and your gathering storm nerf is also hilarious because it would nerf lightning aswell