Planned Class Changes for 7.3

[Flexgoliath]

Please find a way to make arsenal/gunnery stronger in PVE.  Everyone knows its strong in many scenarios in PVP but it has been a bottom tier spec in PVE for too long.  There has to be a way to give it a PVE bump without making it broken in PVP.  The changes you  have shown so far are not even close.

[steveerkcanjerk]

1 hour ago, Flexgoliath said:

Please find a way to make arsenal/gunnery stronger in PVE.  Everyone knows its strong in many scenarios in PVP but it has been a bottom tier spec in PVE for too long.  There has to be a way to give it a PVE bump without making it broken in PVP.  The changes you  have shown so far are not even close.

On pts i got a 28.7k parse so i would say thats not too bad. Definitely better then it was before. But to say the changes aren't even close its like...what do you want arsenal to parse at? 

[SentinalMasterWW]

8 hours ago, meddani said:

"pls destroy madness and overbuff mercs" 

madness isn't even that great in pve btw, oh and your gathering storm nerf is also hilarious because it would nerf lightning aswell

Madness is overperforming, especially for PVP. The point was to reduce their self healing because they are beating out some healer specs.

I'm going to Quote Faltun from a post he made on madness specs 

Quote

 There are 2 specs, both of them are top of every pvp tier list in 7.0 era, no wonder ppl spam them in wz and arena matches. Lethality and Madness, Their self heals are just brutal, While they re mobile and can kite\los while heal to full, also both of them have combat reset(vanish, bubble, teleport). Killing a high skilled madness player or lethality can last quite long even with multiple players, while they have some sick rot dmg\dot spread, control and utility.

Quote

Madness can have very high hps also and next to all that, it has higher dmg reduction than heavy armor users while wearing cloth, has one of the best mobility in the game, can aoe root every 20 seconds while dots not breaking dmg, and can have 50% slow up til eternity if specced for it and of course teleport and bubble to reset combat....

 

Again The point is that Madness has very little to no downsides right now, If they nerfed to play more like a glass cannon role like Hatred, I'd be fine with that. What I'm not fine with is that you can literally unload into a madness sorc and they can heal for like 40-60% of their health back. 

The other issues is that they are the meta for sorc right now, Because they really have now downsides everyone gravitates towards them and basically all you see in PVP nowadays are madness sorcs. Fighting one is annoying, Fighting multiple is hell.

Commandos/Mercs are not OP this way because ED only works if people hit into it, Trauma stabilizers is the same thing, so that leaves adrenaline rush and even than when you are near death it wont save you as getting focused downs you, meanwhile sorcs can just bubble or phase walk out and heal back to full. 

Mercs are underperforming, They have no mobility, They suffer in the DMG Department. 

The point of Nerfing Gathering storm was because a 20% DMG boost on force speed plus Recklessness makes Force leach heal for like 50-60K. Which beats out healer specs. 

I also suggested buffing lightning if you actually read my post. 

I suggested buffs overall to each of the specs, The last thing I  want is for one spec to be OP like Madness.

 

[eabevella]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:46 PM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hey everyone just wanted to give an update on some changes based on some feedback from PTS. These changes will be available to test on the next round of PTS.

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• The knockback for Series of Shots/Speed shot and Penetrating Blasts/Penetrating Rounds has been moved to Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low from Ruthless Efficiency/ Efficient Ammo. 

Dev Notes: After looking through the feedback and seeing some data from PTS we found that the knockback changes synergize better on Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low over Ruthless Efficiency/Efficient Ammo for both PvE and PvP players. 

Powertech/Vanguard: 

• Energized Vambrace - Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.
• Prototype Weapon Systems/Havoc Training - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Magnetic Blast, Retractable Blade, Thermal Detonator, and Energy Burst by 15% up from 10%. 

Dev Notes: After looking through some feedback, data, and some experimentation on PTS with the tactical, it had become clear that too much power was placed on it. To compensate, we removed Energy Burst and Rail Shot from the damage bonus and shifted a buff to the critical damage on various abilities. This should help keep the power distributed and open the door for more itemization for Advanced Prototype/Tactics. 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. 
 

Really glad that you listened and tested the feedback and make a better change of it.

Thank you.

-a happy sniper/op

[StrikePrice]

So you will wind up adding yet another tactical that no one will use. Great. Job well done. 

[AdjeYo]

11 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

So you will wind up adding yet another tactical that no one will use. Great. Job well done. 

Which tactical are we talking, the new AP one? A lot of people are going to be using that, AP has been begging for a good single target tactical for ages now. This'll become the standard for PvE. 

Or are we referring to the neural trigger nerf (which is 100% deserved, it is way too strong). 

[Kazjan]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:46 AM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hey everyone just wanted to give an update on some changes based on some feedback from PTS. These changes will be available to test on the next round of PTS.

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• The knockback for Series of Shots/Speed shot and Penetrating Blasts/Penetrating Rounds has been moved to Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low from Ruthless Efficiency/ Efficient Ammo. 

Dev Notes: After looking through the feedback and seeing some data from PTS we found that the knockback changes synergize better on Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low over Ruthless Efficiency/Efficient Ammo for both PvE and PvP players. 

Powertech/Vanguard: 

• Energized Vambrace - Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.
• Prototype Weapon Systems/Havoc Training - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Magnetic Blast, Retractable Blade, Thermal Detonator, and Energy Burst by 15% up from 10%. 

Dev Notes: After looking through some feedback, data, and some experimentation on PTS with the tactical, it had become clear that too much power was placed on it. To compensate, we removed Energy Burst and Rail Shot from the damage bonus and shifted a buff to the critical damage on various abilities. This should help keep the power distributed and open the door for more itemization for Advanced Prototype/Tactics. 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. 
 

@Shabir_Dhillon Who are you listening too? You're clearly out of sync from the actual player base. The player base is clearly saying we don't want this crap and you still keep pushing this stuff at us. Great job at listening to your community.  

WE DON'T EVEN USE THOSE USELESS TACTICAL'S STOP IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!

[AdjeYo]

6 hours ago, Kazjan said:

@Shabir_Dhillon Who are you listening too? You're clearly out of sync from the actual player base. The player base is clearly saying we don't want this crap and you still keep pushing this stuff at us. Great job at listening to your community.  

WE DON'T EVEN USE THOSE USELESS TACTICAL'S STOP IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!

What the hell are you on about, gimme that sweet new single target tactical for AP. Maybe I can finally justify bringing it into raids again.

And obviously they're listening, they've made several iterations on the Sniper changes (which are just a straight upgrade over Sniper on live right now) and made changes on the overpowered new tactical to make it useful, yet not OP. Like people have been giving feedback about in the thread. 

[Kazjan]

26 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

What the hell are you on about, gimme that sweet new single target tactical for AP. Maybe I can finally justify bringing it into raids again.

And obviously they're listening, they've made several iterations on the Sniper changes (which are just a straight upgrade over Sniper on live right now) and made changes on the overpowered new tactical to make it useful, yet not OP. Like people have been giving feedback about in the thread. 

Look You and I both know how this going to go. You been here since 2012.  You already know how many sniper buff and debuff there has been. I'm happy that you're able to use it in PVE Raid that good. So it buff you for PVE which will unbalance the class in PVP and then you know what going to happen they are going to nerf it once again. 

Being here since 2008 myself all these class changes (Nerfs and Buff) Come from PVP data and how loud the PVP community is. I'm going to sit back and watch you be happy for about 2-3 month and then become very sad again because it will get nerf again.  

This revamp the dev's call are the same thing they did to Focus Guardians back in the day or Combat Sentinels.  You can never have balance in this game until they separate PVP stats from PVE Stats so enjoy using that single target tactical for short time before he come on here and write a new post on how it going to get nerf.  

They are obviously not listening. There a much bigger issue with this game than buff stealth scan/ Renaming skills / Buffing useless tactical's / Economy changes only hurt poor people and those players who are living mission to mission.  We going to have to setup a Go fund me plan for those players. 

I'm happy they are buffing your tactical enjoy it for 3 months 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

You can never have balance in this game until they separate PVP stats from PVE Stats so enjoy using that single target tactical for short time before he come on here and write a new post on how it going to get nerf.  

Which will never happen. They will never separate PVP/PVE stats at this point. I agree that would be the ideal measure, but it won't happen. So should they just leave everything as is and leave things broken?

There will never be "balance" because there will always be some specs performing better than others. As long as some specs are performing better than others, people will whine about it.

Regarding the changes to the new AP/Tactics single target tactical, they seem quite reasonable to me. The previous iteration presented here did seem like it may have been too much, so this change seems to me to be a good thing. Whether or not it will turn out that way, we have to wait and see once it comes out and we have enough statistics and testing once it goes live. 

I'm not sure why you are making the judgement that it will need to be nerfed in 3 months before you even see how it performs live.

But even if you're right and 3 months later they nerf it if it turns out to be too strong (which I presently do not see any reason to assume that, it doesn't sound like it's too much), why would that be a bad thing? That would be a good thing.

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

Being here since 2008 myself all these class changes (Nerfs and Buff) Come from PVP data and how loud the PVP community is.

Economy changes only hurt poor people and those players who are living mission to mission.

I've been playing this game for 10 years. I've been a HM/NiM Progression raider and Ranked PVPer. I am not more partial to either one, I enjoy raiding and PVP equally, just for different reasons, and I can recall several instances over the years wherein class changes came from PVE, not PVP. So your not helping yourself by stating that, when it is an objectively false statement, whether you realize that or not.

I for one am pleased to see that the Devs are actually listening to players and making changes to things that have been previously released as changes that are going to be made before they have gone live, while they're still being tested on the PTS.

Regarding the Economy changes - If the economy changes actually notably hamper anyone 'living mission to mission' who are not brand spanking new players, they're doing something very wrong. It is stupid easy to make credits in this game.

Edited May 14, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[AdjeYo]

7 hours ago, Kazjan said:

Look You and I both know how this going to go. You been here since 2012.  You already know how many sniper buff and debuff there has been. I'm happy that you're able to use it in PVE Raid that good. So it buff you for PVE which will unbalance the class in PVP and then you know what going to happen they are going to nerf it once again. 

Being here since 2008 myself all these class changes (Nerfs and Buff) Come from PVP data and how loud the PVP community is. I'm going to sit back and watch you be happy for about 2-3 month and then become very sad again because it will get nerf again.  

This revamp the dev's call are the same thing they did to Focus Guardians back in the day or Combat Sentinels.  You can never have balance in this game until they separate PVP stats from PVE Stats so enjoy using that single target tactical for short time before he come on here and write a new post on how it going to get nerf.  

They are obviously not listening. There a much bigger issue with this game than buff stealth scan/ Renaming skills / Buffing useless tactical's / Economy changes only hurt poor people and those players who are living mission to mission.  We going to have to setup a Go fund me plan for those players. 

I'm happy they are buffing your tactical enjoy it for 3 months 

I guess I just don't understand the point of complaining in a thread where they're detailing a bunch of clearly positive changes for the game. AP will have a single target tactical again, and should be doing some solid damage again, making them more viable. Lightning and Arsenal get some (albeit small) buffs which are much needed. Madness getting nerfed in PvP in a way that doesn't affect PvE.

Bioware certainly have in the past, and probably will in the future, nerf classes in PvE for the sake of PvP and vice versa (no they clearly don't just balance for PvP). That'll happen sadly. Still I'll appreciate this very good looking balance patch. And we're already seeing them make adjustments based on feedback on these changes, which is even better imo.

[Kazjan]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:13 AM, AdjeYo said:

I guess I just don't understand the point of complaining in a thread where they're detailing a bunch of clearly positive changes for the game. AP will have a single target tactical again, and should be doing some solid damage again, making them more viable. Lightning and Arsenal get some (albeit small) buffs which are much needed. Madness getting nerfed in PvP in a way that doesn't affect PvE.

Bioware certainly have in the past, and probably will in the future, nerf classes in PvE for the sake of PvP and vice versa (no they clearly don't just balance for PvP). That'll happen sadly. Still I'll appreciate this very good looking balance patch. And we're already seeing them make adjustments based on feedback on these changes, which is even better imo.

Just because people disagree with what they are doing is not complaining. People have the right to voice their decent about how the direction of the game is going. The changes they're making are not the hot and butter issue that is wrong with the combat system of this game. The system itself is the *PROBLEM*

All these changes are Band-Aid to a broken system.  I'm Sorry but these changes are F GRADE. There was a time when the community held these Developers to the Fire and held them accountable.  

But let's be real tho.

When the last time the CREW Skill System seen any love? Same old interface and system since day 1 

When the last time GSF seen any love? 

When the last time Upraising seen any Love?

3 added Playable races in 12 year this game been out? This is Star Wars and it unacceptable SWG had more playable races.  I'm not to bash the game I've been playing since Alpha testing. I want a better Star Wars game is all and not these lack luster changes. 

These developer has beaten and bash the Healer and tank Community that they had to add heal pod in FP because THEY destroyed the healing and tank class so much that no one wants to even play them any more.  

Again, This is just one man opinion and I'm not saying You're wrong at all I do agree with a lot you said in your post. I'm just saying there much more major issue than what being presented is all. 

 

[Iceslasher]

YAY they are doing something good for Arso Mercs!! At least I hope it will work well 😃 

That hunter droid sounds nice, even if it will be more for pvp then reg players. But still very cool! 
Thankyou!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

6 hours ago, Kazjan said:

Just because people disagree with what they are doing is not complaining. People have the right to voice their decent about how the direction of the game is going.

I disagree with you, but you most certainly have the right to voice your opinion. Without question.

 

6 hours ago, Kazjan said:

3 added Playable races in 12 year this game been out? This is Star Wars and it unacceptable SWG had more playable races.

This ain't Star Wars dude. Star Wars-Esque? Yes.

But this game has been going against Lucas's vision from the beginning. He said so (although not just about this game, thought the game would be included in his statement.)

That isn't to say people shouldn't like it,  or even care about that, most people probably don't really care about Lucas' vision. - I happen to be one that does. But it doesn't stop me from playing the game and enjoying the parts I do. I personally hated SWG.

It's just a game. Take it for what it's worth. If you insist on it being exactly how you would make it, you'll never be happy with it.

They're gonna run this game, their way, according to their vision, and do what they think is fiscally best for the game and that which will make them the most profit.

I would love to see more races added. - I only play one character, but I would love it if they made wookies a playable race and even I would make a new character to play one. Rodians, droid player option, Hammer-heads (Ithorians), Jawas, Ewoks, Devorians, Gamorrians, Weequeys, there are so many classical Star Wars races that could be added that would peak the interest of so many players, but, its not going to happen.

You have to be realistic. They just don't have the resources for it. People have been asking for new races to be added for years (myself included), there are a 1000 strings on the forums about it, but they all meet with the same fate. - Nada.

Your opinions are just as valid as anyone else's, but people also have the right to disagree with them.

I've made my peace with the general state of things in this game and try to be realistic in my expectations. It's the only way I've found to be able to play the game for 10 years and be still be able to enjoy it enough to make it worthwhile. I don't try and hold it to my personal standards because that won't ever happen.

[Kazjan]

7 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

They're gonna run this game, their way, according to their vision, and do what they think is fiscally best for the game and that which will make them the most profit.

Incorrect. Old Republic revenue for the quarter ending March 31, 2023 was $1.759B, a 20.3% decline year-over-year. If 20% Decline is a proof of their bad vision. 

 

21 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I would love to see more races added. - I only play one character, but I would love it if they made wookies a playable race and even I would make a new character to play one. Rodians, droid player option, Hammer-heads (Ithorians), Jawas, Ewoks, Devorians, Gamorrians, Weequeys, there are so many classical Star Wars races that could be added that would peak the interest of so many players, but, its not going to happen.

I think those would be amazing additions if they added them.

 

22 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

You have to be realistic. They just don't have the resources for it. People have been asking for new races to be added for years (myself included), there are a 1000 strings on the forums about it, but they all meet with the same fate. - Nada.

They have the resources they choose to use it in the wrong way.

But I agree with your post.  

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

3 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

Incorrect. Old Republic revenue for the quarter ending March 31, 2023 was $1.759B, a 20.3% decline year-over-year. If 20% Decline is a proof of their bad vision. 

Not everything works out the way we plan for it or hope for.  They may think a certain track is the best way for them to earn profit, but just happen to turn out to be wrong.

I definitely don't agree with their vision personally, but, it's still their vision whether I or you like it or not or if it turns out to be prosperous or a total disaster or not.

All I'm trying to say is, they're gonna run things their way in a manner they think will be best for them and make them the most profit. As you sited above, clearly, sometimes they are very wrong in their appraisal of things! =p

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 minute ago, Faltun said:

I just dont understand, why AP PT got a tough DMG buff, when its already melting ppl hp in 3 gcd, especially some specs, like sniper, which defense(the tech\force dmg reduction under evasion aka countermeasure dosent work at all against pt's dmg). I mean its nice you removed neural trigger's stun, which should ve never been in the game and i understand if its need better pve numbers, but then reduce its burst on shoulder cannon and incrase sustained dmg. incrasing sustained dmg and not touching burst will make it even more meta in pvp, its alreadly in a very good good spot pvp wise.

If we re talking about burst, why Engineering burst tactical didnt get a nerf? Its a joke it can hit 150k and make other sniper builds pointless if someone want the class to be viable. With the current HP and TTK on some specs(im not tlaking about lethality, madness and skank jugg) Burst like Engi and AP PT shouldnt be available.

Because AP's DPS in PVE isn't all that great. It performs better in PVP, but you can't just cater to one side or the other. They're both important. You can't leave it in bad shape in one cause how it might effect the other. Tons of people don't even play PVP at all.

Ideally, they should separate the two, and be able to make changes to one (PVP or PVE) that won't effect the other. People have been asking for this for years and years, but, that's not gonna happen.

My brother plays Tactics (AP Rep-side). - It's a burst spec and Shoulder cannon isn't bursty at all. It's damage is pretty low, so I'm not sure what you're referring to here. That's why you blast away with shoulder cannon in your opener as that is assumed to be augmented by an adrenal. It's nice that its off the GCD and you can use it no matter what, but per attack, it's damage is low.

Additionally, especially for PVP, shoulder cannon is often a source of heals for AP/Tactics and defensively, it's not good at all. You lower the damage on Shoulder cannon, you're lowering it's heals for PVP which would be rather bad for its survivability I'd think. 

As burst specs go, it's raw DPS potential in PVE isn't that great. It performs a lot better in PVP than it does it PVE from the statistics I've seen and seems to be the general consensus.

I'm no expert on AP/Tactics though, so take that for what it's worth.

As far as the Engineering burst tactical, I'm definitely with you on that. That's insanely OP IMO.

 

 

[LukasLukasLukas]

2 hours ago, Faltun said:

If we re talking about burst, why Engineering burst tactical didnt get a nerf? Its a joke it can hit 150k and make other sniper builds pointless if someone want the class to be viable

150k?? What are you running? 306 gear? Im getting 170k crits constantly

On serious note, yes this tactical is quite nice however, it does require set up 4gcd's and you need a build to support it which makes your energy managment quite...well..it doesnt exist. Not to mention its easy avoidable - I think you even had a video about that. In comparition, Viru with UV tactical totals more damage although its not visible in one go. The biggest argument supporting this tactical is, that it keeps madness sorc population in check  I hope they will bring MM some day back....

On the other hand, if they would provide more sniper tactical ppl would not be forced to use this one. I recently started playing with Ruthless Interrogation and, although I'm not having the big boom factor, I notice that dps increase is highier and I still can melt down ppl. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by LukasLukasLukas

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, Faltun said:

not a single a half good or even average pvp pt use shoulder cannon heal for pvp instead of hold the line lol.  did you ever play with or against any good ap pt at all, do you play SWTOR at all?

I stated clearly that I don't play it, that my brother plays it and that, and I quote, 

"I'm no expert on AP/Tactics though, so take that for what it's worth."

I've been playing this game for 10 years, I was a HM/NiM Progression raider and a Ranked PVPer. I play a Carnage Marauder.

2 hours ago, Faltun said:

It has nothing to do with the dmg of shoulder cannon, since its healing based on your max health %... And here it becomes clear you have no idea what you re talking about just posting random stuff on forum under balance changes without any basic knowledge even about the topic you re writing about.... 

I don't play that crap.

2 hours ago, Faltun said:

Seriously this guy has 3.6k post and dont know basic things? Are we wondering why SWTOR is here in the verge of collapse with 7.0 changes? No surprise if they listen to everyone, to the ppl that post a lot and loud.... it is not from the right players, who actually know the game and play the game quite a lot with all specs and all game modes.

Said the guy with 204 posts.

I had my brother do some parses while I watched. Even with adrenal and Battle Focus. He wasn't averaging 20-25K per rocket and he's full 336 with full gold augs. 

SWTOR is on the verge of collapse? Keep talken about how well you know the game.

I don't see too many people here complaining about AP getting a buff.

And no, they definitely shouldn't listen to me about AP/Tactics. I don't play it. That's just my opinion based on what I see with the metrics (Parsley), and my brother, and my brother who does play Tactics doesn't agree with your assessment. 

I play one thing, I play one character. A carnage Marauder.

But, I'm sure you're a master of the game. Only you know how to play the game.

[Kazjan]

@Faltun and @WayOfTheWarriorx You both make really valid points.  The easy fix for this would for them to go back to the expertise system. This allowed them to balance PVE without unbalancing PVP.  I think everyone believes the classes need changes but the problem I have is that they only buff DPS while Healing and Tank class continue to get destroyed Content Update after Content Update.  

Also, Don't think it okay to go after post counts. Doesn't matter if someone has 4k post or 1 post. everyone opinion matters and deserved to be heard.  

5 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Then why you post to a topic if you have no idea about it. Based on what your brother do or say.... my brother and my sister play this and that spec so i know they re weak or strong, they need a buff or debuff..... just simply wtf... Simply just post to the things you know the basics of... You re showing the problems of internet era, ppl post things and go in arguments they dont even know anything about, because the internet give them the tools to do so, this is not good, be smart and post about things you know about.

Just because they don't play the class doesn't mean they don't know anything about that class. I don't personally play Sentinel but I know the in and out of the class because I study the class to know the rotations and their buff animation and the burst cycle so that I can live while fighting them. I've help train members in my guild on how to play their class without it even being my main class. 

10 minutes ago, Faltun said:

58 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

SWTOR is on the verge of collapse? Keep talken about how well you know the game.

 

Yes, check the population charts, it reduced drasticly with 7.0 game is on life support and they dont even have resources to put out contents properly. On fleet its hard to find grps, removed ranked, On gtn and trade chat hard to find stuff, pop times are long. I think its pretty clear for everyone SWTOR has some serious population problems and yeah once its not worth for them, they re gonna shut down the servers forever.

 The game been on the decline for years ever since they brought out KOTFE.  Of course it has had some spikes in population during some content update.  The RP community and the Stream Partnership really saved the game. I wouldn't say the game going to collapse. The game still bring into billions of dollars each fiscal cycle it just they don't use their time and money wisely in my opinion. 

but back on topic:

We all just want to see the game flourish again. 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

24 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Then why you post to a topic if you have no idea about it. Based on what your brother do or say.... my brother and my sister play this and that spec so i know they re weak or strong, they need a buff or debuff..... just simply wtf... Simply just post to the things you know the basics of...

Because I'll post whenever the hell I want about whatever the hell I want and any one who has a problem with my voicing my opinion is welcome to try and stop me. I don't give a rats aO what you think.

 

24 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Maybe it was on operation target dummy or didnt use autocrit tactical. I have pvp videos on youtube with autocrit tactical where on marauders 20-25k crit \ rocket even 15k with cloak of pain on and relics off.

WTH are you talking about Marauders for? What do marauders have to do with with how much Shoulder cannons do?

He has both the recommended tacticals for Tactics. 

Once again, you're basing your position solely on PVP. PVP is not the only consideration. That's very nice you have videos from PVP, like I care.

24 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Then you should really know what other class do, even if you dont play them, becasue you need to know the basics of your enemies and teammates too.

You play your game, I'll play mine. The only thing I care about is the numbers I put out. And no one complains about the numbers I put out. The numbers you put are the ONLY thing that matters.

 

24 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Yes, check the population charts, it reduced drasticly with 7.0 game is on life support and they dont even have resources to put out contents properly. On fleet its hard to find grps, removed ranked, On gtn and trade chat hard to find stuff, pop times are long. I think its pretty clear for everyone SWTOR has some serious population problems and yeah once its not worth for them, they re gonna shut down the servers forever.

Ohh really? Is the game ded/dying. Is it gonna be dead in a year?

Wow. Never heard that before on the forums. I'm real worried. Keep thinking that looking at steam gives a proper picture of the whole. 

I don't know what dead server you play on, but I play on Star Forge. Our population is friggen great. Our pop times aren't even remotely long. GtN/trade chat booming. Maybe move to a better server.

24 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Nobody said that, but i know the basics of every specs and play them actively or played them in the not so far past. And many other players do that, with them there can be a proper conversation or argument

I'm very impressed by your LeeTness. I'll try and git gud.

You'll have to forgive me for having a normal sex life.

Edited May 16, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

39 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Be proud of saying stupid things to something you have no idea about(you even say that you dont know the spec you were talking about). You just make yourself burn pal...

Dumb.

39 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Simply that was the enemy' class and thats where i can show you 25k shoulder cannon is a real thing in pvp.... because you doubt that in you previous post, and i bring facts to the table while you re just keep yourself burning. So thats why i said because i canshow evidence while you re saying what your bro did

So you see a shoulder cannon rocket do 25k one time in PVP and now that is the damage it always does in all instances and that should be what we base it on from than on it, what some dude saw in PVP on a marauder one time. Brilliant logic. You're really showing everyone the wide expanse upon which you base your position.

 

39 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Wow a pro pve dps i am flattered you can pull 32k with a rotation you learned and can be scripted, nice nobody can do that, oh wait a minute.... but dont know anything about other specs neither of your teammates or your enemies, you just post to everyhing wihthout knowing anything. i guess you were the one in ranked who got globaled every second round. 

I was a Ranked PVPer as well as a NiM/HM progression raider. Unlike you, I actually did all the content types and I DON'T base my position on one little area of the game. Regular raiding, warzones, I don't have a preference. I love PVP as much as I love raiding. I don't take a side. But, if they had to base it one, well, hate to break it to you, this game is played alot more my PVERs than PVPers.

Sometimes changes are made because of PVE needs that effect PVP negatively, and sometimes changes are made because of PVP needs that effect PVE negatively. I would think someone as accomplished in this game as you claim to be would know that.

I'm not the one making big claims here. You are. But, as far as my performance, which is another thing you see to like to make claims about based on absolutely nothing, if you like, I have 100s of screen shots that show my performance in PVP. Feel free to give me a number you'd like me to share. 10, 20, 50, 100 not a problem. I'm fine with letting my numbers speak for me.

39 minutes ago, Faltun said:

i didnt say that based on steam charts, there are data even before swtor joined steam. So yeah i didnt check it on steam and you can check 5 years charts even, clearly seeable 6.0 had much higher pop. Actually the lowest of 6.0 is close to the 7.0 highest. 

Yeah, they release game wide population counts in full, month by month, across all servers? Site your source please.

39 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Yeah its ok to have normal sex life, i am glad you have it, even tho i prefer a good one, luckily i enjoy that next to the ability for bein able to put facts to the table  with proper IQ numbers instead on non sense blabla

Yeah, chicks totally dig guys who spend so much time playing video games they are constantly up to date on every spec in the game in its current form to such a degree they are an expert on all of them and therefore can speak authoritatively on the subject. 

.................................................................................................................................

Other than the screenies, I think you and me have ran our course. You think I'm a-O, I think you're an a-O. We're not going to agree. 

It's just getting a little tedious at this point with the back and forth. If you want to continue, I will oblige.

Edited May 16, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

.  The easy fix for this would for them to go back to the expertise system. This allowed them to balance PVE without unbalancing PVP. 

I'm in total agreement this. They should do this. They must do this. Seperating PVE from PVP to allow balancing changes where needed that won't unnecessarily negatively effect the other would solve so many problems and be a massive boon to the game. Sadly, I don't think they'll do it. People have been asking for this (seperation of PVE and PVP for balancing purposes) for years and years, and they never follow that advise unfortunately.

 

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

Also, Don't think it okay to go after post counts. Doesn't matter if someone has 4k post or 1 post. everyone opinion matters and deserved to be heard. 

Agreed. Like I said to you in another instance wherein we were in disagreement, everyone is entitled to their opinions and has the right to express them.

 

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

The game been on the decline for years ever since they brought out KOTFE.  Of course it has had some spikes in population during some content update.

I don't think that anyone could deny with a straight face that the game's population has declined over the years. And yeah, KOTFE did quite a number on the population, a lot of people had issues with it. I was one of them, although I didn't leave the game over it, but was very open on the forums on my dislike of it.

My point was only about the "game is ded/dying". We've been hearing people say the game will be dead/gone in a year for the last ten years on the forums heh.

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

We all just want to see the game flourish again. 

Absolutely.

Me and you were able to disagree respectfully because neither one of us were insulting the knowledge or capabilities of the other with regard to the game, and it wasn't just me and you, but we all managed to be respectful in our disagreements with each other. Therein lies the difference.

I even saw you putting likes to the posts people were disagreeing with you in. Gotta respect that.

[Kazjan]

34 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

1 hour ago, Kazjan said:

The game been on the decline for years ever since they brought out KOTFE.  Of course it has had some spikes in population during some content update.

I don't think that anyone could deny with a straight face that the game's population has declined over the years. And yeah, KOTFE did quite a number on the population, a lot of people had issues with it. I was one of them, although I didn't leave the game over it, but was very open on the forums on my dislike of it.

My point was only about the "game is ded/dying". We've been hearing people say the game will be dead/gone in a year for the last ten years on the forums heh.

TBH the biggest drop in population was when they decided to get rid of Open world PVP to go to this Arena PVP System that has been the biggest headache since it was launch. I still don't understand why labeling a players Spec was a good idea.  Make absolutely no sense what so ever. 

Oh for those people who weren't around in those days "YES" we had OPEN World PVP System which was actually the best End game content IMO for PVP. Instead of fixing the stability and performance issue they decided to get rid of the whole system.  Oh don't worry they sold the game with Trailer after Trailer with Open world PVP at it focus.  This was a period where guild actually had fun and flourish. 

sorry got off topic 

  17 minutes ago, Faltun said:

  44 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, they release game wide population counts in full, month by month, across all servers? Site your source please.

  1 hour ago, Faltun said:

mmo-population.com/r/swtor/stats

There are more, but google is your friend, i hope you know how to use it.

Expand  

I'm sorry that link does not support your debate you kind of of shot your own argument down.  Base off the link YOU provided  the game has increase it population month after month that is not a decline. The F2P model is working so we have to give them credit for that at least.  

However, You're correct 7.0 was not received very well with some of the player base myself included.  But that due to lack of quality that is expected from Star Wars Storytelling/ Lack of innovation when it come to FP/OPS/PVP/ Lack of Creativity with the Reskin of old armor set from the base game and calling them "NEW"

Again, said this in other post them getting rid of that story base FP and going back to old style was a great move they just need to revert to doing what brought them to the dance in the first place.  Now all they have to do is get rid of this KOTFE storytelling and go back to Individual Class Stories.  IMO.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Kazjan
double post

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 minute ago, Faltun said:

There are changes which cant avoid hurting PvE or PvP like you said, but this shouldnt be one because there are solutions to not to do so. Simply because you can incrase sustained(which incrase a bit of burst too) and reduce burst in he same time on burst ability like off gcd dmg ability... and since ap has the best burst it dosent hurt if its burst is reduced few % in exchagne for a better sustained.

I'm not necessarily against your idea in how to address the buff. But, at the same time, I'm not against the manner in which BW has chosen to address the buff. I get it has very good burst in PVP. But, and this is a but, that's because it has very fast burst windows, they're isn't much 'downtime' between them. But, in terms of individual hits,  they are not putting out the biggest burst numbers per attack, from what I see. Rage has higher burst attacks, Carnage has higher burst attacks and Engineering, well, I think everyone knows what kind of burst they can put out. AP can't reach a burst attack (generally speaking, obviously, sometimes the stars align, relics proc with adrenal, other buffs as well at same time) as high as some of the other burst specs can. 

The problem here is simply you can't have balancing for both and it work out well. I understand your point about how you could effect DPS for PVE with sustained changes, but, it is a burst spec and I think, just my opinion, that's why they are addressing the change in the way that they are. Rage, Carnage, Engineering, they can drop higher burst bombs, so I think they are trying to give AP/Tactics more comparable individual burst attacks.

And who knows, maybe you'll turn out the be right, and it will be too much. If history has shown us anything with regard to balance changes BW makes, they're not exactly known for gentle stokes, they tend to swing the buff/nerf bat hard. They're are some exceptions (arsenal comes to mind), but I said it very early on, it maybe they do have to make a change in 3 months if it turns out to be too much. The changes they made to the tacticals original form does seem reasonable to be me, it does seem like it may be okay. 

You never ever know, until it goes live.

16 minutes ago, Faltun said:

mmo-population.com/r/swtor/stats

There are more, but google is your friend, i hope you know how to use it.

So it to try and back your claim that the game is dying you site a source that shows a massive increase in population in the 6 months.

11/2022 - 107,682.

5/2023 - 223,339.

The game's population has increased by 115, 657 players in the last 6 months. Which means It's more than doubled in population in the last 6 months.

I have to ask, do you know how to use google? Look at your own source.

Subscriber count - 

2023-05

11,754,678

 

Active players -  446,678

....

2018-06

4,153,861

Active Players - 157,847

...

Both of those numbers have done nothing but steadily increase over those last 5 years and they give numbers for every single month, during those last 5 years. It has never dipped down.

Which is interesting considering this seems to totally contradict the original graph chart of population counts over the last 5 years first presented.

It also ends with the following note - 

NOTE

We have only been collecting player information on MMO Populations since 2015. The above data represents our knowledge about estimated player counts, subscribers and popularity for Star Wars: The Old Republic (aka swtor).

"our knowledge about estimated player counts"

Also, this isn't even from Bioware.

 

Please let me know if I'm missing something here, because this makes no sense at all. heh

Given these 2 facts, I'm not inclined to give this much credence. 

37 minutes ago, Faltun said:

Also im traveling quite a lot, have a cool IT job

Lucky bastard. =p