Planned Class Changes for 7.3

[Shabir_Dhillon]

Hey everyone following up on Jackie’s announcement post, here is the list of 7.3 balance changes. These changes will also be available on the PTS when it opens. And as always we look forward to hearing your feedback on these changes. 

Powertech/Vanguard:

• Adjusted timing of some ability grants to smooth out the leveling experience.
• Stealth Scan has been redesigned and renamed “Terminator Droid”. In addition to revealing stealthed enemies it also slows them and decreases their accuracy
  • Terminator Droid/Suppression Droid - Fires off a Terminator Droid to scan the area for 15, revealing stealthed opponents and immobilizing them for 3 seconds. In addition, all enemies inside the field of the Terminator Droid have their accuracy reduced by 20% and are slowed by 30%.
• Stealth Scan has its cooldown increased to 20 seconds up from 15.
• Neural Trigger tactical now roots the target instead of stuns. 

Advanced Prototype/Tactics: 

• Prototype Rail / High Friction Bolts now restore 6 heat / energy when their effect is triggered (up from 5).
• Prototype Weapon Systems/Havoc Training - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Magnetic Blast, Retractable Blade, Thermal Detonator, and Energy Burst by 15% up from 10%. 
• Energized Blade Tactical has been redesigned and renamed Energized Vambrace It does the following:
  • Energized Vambrace - Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.

Mercenary/Commando

• Adjusted timing of some ability grants to smooth out the leveling experience.
• Stealth Scan has been redesigned and renamed “Hunter Killer Droid”. In addition to revealing stealthed enemies, it also reduces the casters damage taken while stunned.
  • Hunter Killer Droid/Advanced Recon Droid - Fires off probes that scan the area for stealth opponents for 15 seconds and grants Droid Overwatch which increases your damage reduction while stunned by 30%.  Revealed targets are immobilized and all enemies within the field are slowed by 30%.
• Stealth Scan's cooldown is increased to 20 seconds up from 15.
• The Random Charge Legendary has been redesigned and renamed to Overcharged Cells. It now does the following:
  • Priming Shot / Vortex Bolt, Thermal Detonator / Assault Plastique, and Healing Scan / Advanced Medical Probe generate 3 Supercharges. This effect has a rate limit of 15 seconds.

Arsenal/Gunnery: 

• Supercharged Gas / Supercharged Cells has been renamed to High Velocity Supercharged Gas / High Velocity Supercharged Cells
• Duration of High Velocity Supercharged Gas / High Velocity Supercharged Cells has been increased by 4 seconds.

Bodyguard/Combat Medic: 

• Supercharged Gas has been renamed to Supercharged Kolto Gas. 

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• Reestablish Range / Reset Engagement is now granted at level 43 for all Snipers / Gunslingers, and the knockback effect has been moved to the Sniper Pillbox/Lay Low utility choice.
• Reestablish Range / Reset Engagement has been replaced by Vital Regulators / Cool Under Pressure as the level 64 choice on the ability tree for all snipers.
• Vital Regulators/Cool Under Pressure will have its healing increased to 3% of your maximum HP every 2 seconds while in cover. 

Marksmanship/Sharpshooter:

• Targeted Ambush / Hotshot now trigger from killing an enemy within three seconds of damaging them with Ambush / Aimed Shot.

Virulence/Dirty Fighting:

• Corrosive Refund / Scrounging has been redesigned. It now causes Corrosive Grenade / Shrap Bomb to refund 2 energy each time it ticks.

Operative/Scoundrel:
Medicine/Sawbones: 

• Medicine Operative’s / Sawbones Scoundrel’s version of Tactical Overdrive / Hot Streak now grants interrupt immunity while it is active.

Lethality/Ruffian: 

• Corrosive Return / Brutal Return no longer extends the duration of Stim Boost / Pugnacity by 5 seconds.
• The Viral Elements tactical no longer causes Lethal Strike / Point Blank Shot to hit the primary target twice.

Concealment/Scrapper:

• The Best Defense mod’s lifesteal effect has been improved.

Assassin/Shadow:
Hatred/Serenity:

• Reduced the damage bonus given from Inevitable Demise / Aching Mind from 30% to 25%.

Deception/Infiltration:

• Increased the damage bonus given by Executioner / Judgement while an opponent is below 30% max health from 3% to 5%.

Sorcerer/Sage
Madness/Balance:

• Dark Echo's / Resonating Pulse’s chance to reapply Death Brand's / Shifted Balance’s slow has been reduced to 30%. 
• Vitiates Malice / Warden’s Vigor - Life Steal on Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw has been reduced to 15% down from 20%. 
• Death Brand/Shifted Balance’s Slow Effect should no longer reapply to players that have been defeated and respawn. 

Lightning/Telekinetics:

• Increased the Stormwatch tactical’s duration to 15 seconds up from 10 seconds. 
• Increased the damage of Halted Offensive / Power of the Force by 7%. 
• Lightning Flash/Telekinetic Gust’s damage is increased by 5%.

Marauder/Sentinel:
Annihilation:

• The focus / rage generation of the Bloodlust / Burning focus passive has been modified. It now reads: "Your direct damage attacks that hit a bleeding / burning target build 1 rage / focus. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds." The rest of the passive's effect remains the same.

Looking forward to reading your feedback and checking out the changes when PTS is open. I’ll make any follow up posts here in this thread as needed.

Shabir
 

[mrgoo]

6 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Stealth Scan has been redesigned and renamed “Hunter Killer Droid”. In addition to revealing stealthed enemies, it also reduces the casters damage taken while stunned.

Can you clarify this? Is the revealed person going to take reduced damage or are you saying that if the Merc who deploys the Hunter Killer will take less damage if also stunned? The person who deploys an anti stealth is not always gettign stunned so this benifit would not impact the one that used the skill very open it sounds like.

[LukasLukasLukas]

10 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

• Reestablish Range / Reset Engagement is now granted at level 43 for all Snipers / Gunslingers, and the knockback effect has been removed.

•  

this one makes sence except of removal of knocback effect on Series of Shot. This is a core part of the class identity and lets face it, quite usefull so please do consider leaving it or putting as a part of Vital Regulators

 

Edit 21/04/2023

@Shabir_DhillonI've had a look into sniper tree and this could also be enrolled into Level 51 talent "Pillbox Sniper"; as its already revolves around knocback it would fit for this talent. 

In addition, I've spoken with few hardcore Sniper mains and everyone was quite suprised why would we be losing knocback on a class that already have some dificulties with keeping meles away (all these jump from juggers/maras). Consensus is its either should be enrolled into choice or merged as a part of ability. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by LukasLukasLukas
Update

[meddani]

RIP neural trigger, finally.

edit: deception and lightning needs more/better buffs imo, madness nerfs are fine.

edit edit: wasn't energized blade a tactical you guys removed with 7.0? because i can't find it, neither as an ability or in the skill tree.

time to dust off the ap pt lol

Edited April 20, 2023 by meddani

[mrgoo]

1 minute ago, LukasLukasLukas said:

this one makes sence except of removal of knocback effect on Series of Shot. This is a core part of the class identity and lets face it, quite usefull so please do consider leaving it or putting as a part of Vital Regulators

I agree I have a hard enough time with survivability on the class as the knockback is something I depend on. 

[Ramell]

Since I only play stealth in PvP, I already hate Terminator Droid. Half-jokes aside, these changes seem decent enough. 

[Cangho]

ty for removing the neural trigger stun. 🙏

[Exocor]

Zitat

• Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed and increases the damage of Railshot / High Impact Round, Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge, and Energy Burst's / Cell Burst by 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.

 

Is that a flat buff, or are Energy Lodes in general redesigned? Right now they are only buffing Energy Burst / Cell Burst and are consumed by it? If we get both, we'll be having 100k Energy Bursts - twice in a row. I wish Sorcs good luck surviving that in PvP.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Exocor

[DamzTheShadow]

Tbh some of these changes look useless, and some specs that needed buff did not get it soooo heh 🙃

[ElricGrey]

Reintroducing a good tactical for AP is a good call, and exactly what it needed. The Lightning changes will help a little, but it's questionable if that's enough to make it competitive. The changes to Marksman, Arsenal, and Deception, three other specs in dire need of upgraded dps to be as viable as other specs, are laughable. Hopefully there is more to come for those.

Edited April 22, 2023 by ElricGrey

[csilvajonas]

No changes to jugg tank? You have any statistic on how many people have been using the class/spec since 7.0? It's a serious question, cause it seems to me that the nerfs hit them the most and i almost never see them being used on master mode raids anymore. I personaly changed to powertech main after 7.0 because the choices we have on jugg/guardian are really mediocre in my opinion, but it could be just me.

[ElricGrey]

29 minutes ago, meddani said:

RIP neural trigger, finally.

edit: deception and lightning needs more/better buffs imo, madness nerfs are fine.

edit edit: wasn't energized blade a tactical you guys removed with 7.0? because i can't find it, neither as an ability or in the skill tree.

time to dust off the ap pt lol

Agree with all, and yes, Energized Blade was taken out and the primary reason AP became bad. Do they realize that it has been out of the game? I couldn't tell you, but it is written as if it does exist.

Edited April 20, 2023 by ElricGrey

[Asanos]

52 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Operative/Scoundrel:
Medicine/Sawbones: 

• Medicine Operative’s / Sawbones Scoundrel’s version of Tactical Overdrive / Hot Streak now grants interrupt immunity while it is active.

 

Thats what the operative heal need xD We need buffs on major abilitys like the main hot or surgical probe or some deffs. No one ever uses tactical overdrive lets be honest

[imthespamman]

Overall pretty lackluster changes...

AP buffs are nice but there still wont be able to compete with Pyro in pve, and I dont see the necessity of basically giving PT diversion. Meanwhile Pyro isnt getting touched at all, while it has been overperforming for ages now.

The change to the random charge implant seems very inconvenient for IO as it will be quite a hassle not to loose too many stacks of supercharge. Arsenal buffs are needed but that one change barely will do anything. Havent done the math but it could very well be a dps nerf

Getting (at least a part) of the heals back on Sniper is very nice, tho it seems weird that it is the heal in cover and not the heal on roll as the latter would be much more beneficial for the needed survivability in pvp. At the same time Sniper really doesnt neeed additional survivability in pve, which is what the cover heal will primarily give. The targeted Ambush mod change really doesnt do anything - again very lackluster treatment of a class that desperatly needs a damage buff. Same goes for the new corroive refound - theres simply no reason to pick it over the critical grenade mod.

The Medicine change is very nice for pvp. Though I really dont get the reason for nerfing the lethality aoe tactical in that way when ctp remains untouched.

Deception buff is good, but again wont really affect things. Same with the nerf to Hatred execute.

Reducing Madness lifesteal is very welcome, as is the lower chance for death brand to reapply. What would be even nicer is if you could fix it so it doesnt reapply after death. Lightning buffs are good but might not be enough to bring them on par with the other good ranged specs.

The Anni change seems to be a nice qol change, however it is very confusing to me that it doesnt get nerfed in any way as it is clearly too strong in pve.

The changes seem to be very mediocre overall, not buffing classes (enough) that really need it, not nerfing classes that are overperforming - namely Pyro and Anni - and instead a lot of pointless renaming.

[ArchingBeast]

Quote

• The Random Charge Legendary has been redesigned and renamed to Overcharged Cells. It now does the following:
  • Priming Shot / Vortex Bolt, Thermal Detonator / Assault Plastique, and Healing Scan / Advanced Medical Probe generate 3 Supercharges. This effect has a rate limit of 15 seconds.

please clarify if this rate limit is alacrity-affected or not. if it is not, the i URGE you to change it to be ASAP, otherwise it will be a hard nerf to IO, which uses Detonator every 13.5 seconds or so, making it have a hugely diminished rate of gained super charge, and ergo strongly nerfed damage.

[Twelfthdoctor]

As another operative/scoundrel main for about the past six years, I concur, I don't really want to devote the keybind space *and* a choice to a buff when there is so much that feels frustratingly missing. Trading  my basic stun for evasion/dodge functionality is a kick in the pants (that I can no longer make), but needed in PvE, and losing my *other* stun because I need a gap closer both in PvE and PvP to deal with knockbacks and moving targets leave me with very little of that old feel of being able to CC a few mobs, and focus on bursting at one that is core to scrapper/concealment... or was.

The burst has been toned down to a degree that we're in the lower end of DPS despite being melee-ranged with limited or no knockback immunity, our burst is lower than the DoT spec lethality/ruffian, and the only changes we get are to make us potentially tankier, which...feels like the opposite of the slip in, burst, slip out or get killed fantasy of the spec. And further changes are being made to PTs/mercs to further reduce PvP effectiveness of our stealth, while they have the electronet that acts like a stun on steroids, along with their default stuns and knockbacks. Sorcerors,  one of the old turret classes, can now zip around and teleport across the map for extended periods of time that make getting and staying in a position to do damage a joke if they're competent.  I'd sort of compare the other classes' heal-to-full DCDs to our 'stealth out and then heal', but that takes us out of the fight longer, doesn't work in most PvE, and can easily be stopped by any DoT or AoE on us.

Overall, I'd be willing to trade a bit less survivability for a bit more burst, but I also still miss my 'toys' in terms of stuns and mezzes even after I've had a year to try to get used to the rebalance. Though this might be the old joke about "Paper is fine, nerf Rock, thanks! --Scissors", I am trying to focus more on what *feels* unsatisfying.

[pookieandbob]

1 hour ago, csilvajonas said:

No changes to jugg tank? You have any statistic on how many people have been using the class/spec since 7.0? It's a serious question, cause it seems to me that the nerfs hit them the most and i almost never see them being used on master mode raids anymore. I personaly changed to powertech main after 7.0 because the choices we have on jugg/guardian are really mediocre in my opinion, but it could be just me.

i play jugg in nim raids all the time and it does perfectly fine. there are very few fights where its not good

 

[pookieandbob]

12 minutes ago, ArchingBeast said:

please clarify if this rate limit is alacrity-affected or not. if it is not, the i URGE you to change it to be ASAP, otherwise it will be a hard nerf to IO, which uses Detonator every 13.5 seconds or so, making it have a hugely diminished rate of gained super charge, and ergo strongly nerfed damage.

even if it does have like a 13 second rate limit it's still gonna hurt IO. cuz ur probably gonna run into situations where you overcap on superchage and that's just ass. Healers are gonna have the same problem since they're already swimming in supercharge. they should just keep it the same and give it to arsenal as a passive 

[AwesomeTacoCat]

Lackluster set of changes really - just doing a bunch of very minor tweaks even though there are several classes that are way over performing and a few that are barely viable. Too bad…

[BallisticKaine]

2 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hey everyone following up on Jackie’s announcement post, here is the list of 7.3 balance changes. These changes will also be available on the PTS when it opens. And as always we look forward to hearing your feedback on these changes. 

Powertech/Vanguard:

• Adjusted timing of some ability grants to smooth out the leveling experience.
• Stealth Scan has been redesigned and renamed “Terminator Droid”. In addition to revealing stealthed enemies it also slows them and decreases their accuracy
• Neural Trigger tactical now roots the target instead of stuns. 

Advanced Prototype/Tactics: 

• Prototype Rail / High Friction Bolts now restore 6 heat / energy when their effect is triggered (up from 5).
• Energized Blade Tactical has been redesigned and renamed Energized Vambrace It does the following:
  • Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed, and increases the damage of Railshot / High Impact Round, Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge, and Energy Burst's / Cell Burst by 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.

Mercenary/Commando

• Adjusted timing of some ability grants to smooth out the leveling experience.
• Stealth Scan has been redesigned and renamed “Hunter Killer Droid”. In addition to revealing stealthed enemies, it also reduces the casters damage taken while stunned.
• The Random Charge Legendary has been redesigned and renamed to Overcharged Cells. It now does the following:
  • Priming Shot / Vortex Bolt, Thermal Detonator / Assault Plastique, and Healing Scan / Advanced Medical Probe generate 3 Supercharges. This effect has a rate limit of 15 seconds.

Arsenal/Gunnery: 

• Supercharged Gas / Supercharged Cells has been renamed to High Velocity Supercharged Gas / High Velocity Supercharged Cells
• Duration of High Velocity Supercharged Gas / High Velocity Supercharged Cells has been increased by 4 seconds.

Bodyguard/Combat Medic: 

• Supercharged Gas has been renamed to Supercharged Kolto Gas. 

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• Reestablish Range / Reset Engagement is now granted at level 43 for all Snipers / Gunslingers, and the knockback effect has been removed.
• Reestablish Range / Reset Engagement has been replaced by Vital Regulators / Cool Under Pressure as the level 64 choice on the ability tree for all snipers.
• Vital Regulators / Cool Under Pressure heals for 2% total health while in cover.

Marksmanship/Sharpshooter:

• Targeted Ambush / Hotshot now trigger from killing an enemy within three seconds of damaging them with Ambush / Aimed Shot.

Virulence/Dirty Fighting:

• Corrosive Refund / Scrounging has been redesigned. It now causes Corrosive Grenade / Shrap Bomb to refund 2 energy each time it ticks.

Operative/Scoundrel:
Medicine/Sawbones: 

• Medicine Operative’s / Sawbones Scoundrel’s version of Tactical Overdrive / Hot Streak now grants interrupt immunity while it is active.

Lethality/Ruffian: 

• Corrosive Return / Brutal Return no longer extends the duration of Stim Boost / Pugnacity by 5 seconds.
• The Viral Elements tactical no longer causes Lethal Strike / Point Blank Shot to hit the primary target twice.

Concealment/Scrapper:

• The Best Defense mod’s lifesteal effect has been improved.

Assassin/Shadow:
Hatred/Serenity:

• Reduced the damage bonus given from Inevitable Demise / Aching Mind from 30% to 25%.

Deception/Infiltration:

• Increased the damage bonus given by Executioner / Judgement while an opponent is below 30% max health from 3% to 5%.

Sorcerer/Sage
Madness/Balance:

• Dark Echo's / Resonating Pulse’s chance to reapply Death Brand's / Shifted Balance’s slow has been reduced to 30%. 
• Vitiates Malice / Warden’s Vigor - Life Steal on Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw has been reduced to 15% down from 20%. 

Lightning/Telekinetics:

• Increased the Stormwatch tactical’s duration to 15 seconds up from 10 seconds. 
• Increased the damage of Halted Offensive / Power of the Force by 7%. 

Marauder/Sentinel:
Annihilation:

• The focus / rage generation of the Bloodlust / Burning focus passive has been modified. It now reads: "Your direct damage attacks that hit a bleeding / burning target build 1 rage / focus. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds." The rest of the passive's effect remains the same.

Looking forward to reading your feedback and checking out the changes when PTS is open. I’ll make any follow up posts here in this thread as needed.

Shabir
 

So you guys retool neural trigger for PT/VG, but won't touch the broken tactical Ionic Discharge for Saboteur/Engineering? WHY???? 

[Beyrahl]

2 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Prototype Rail / High Friction Bolts now restore 6 heat / energy when their effect is triggered (up from 5).

Possible to just get Thermal Sensor Override back instead of having it fused into vent heat? It would not only be more practical but heat way more. 

 

Do want to preface the rest of this from a PvPer PoV. 

2 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Energized Blade Tactical has been redesigned and renamed Energized Vambrace It does the following:

• Gaining an Energy Lode stack increases the damage on Retractable Blade's / Gut’s bleed, and increases the damage of Railshot / High Impact Round, Magnetic Blast / Tactical Surge, and Energy Burst's / Cell Burst by 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.

Seems strong, maybe with unclear wording. This tactical isn't in the game anyway.

 

 

2 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

The Viral Elements tactical no longer causes Lethal Strike / Point Blank Shot to hit the primary target twice.

I've wanted this fixed for ages, I thank you. Tanks thank you.
 

2 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Increased the damage of Halted Offensive / Power of the Force by 7%. 

👀
This was brought down for a specific reason. Would have thought the buffs would be directed to base damage elsewhere? Oh well, I'm not complaining. 


Any chance we could see more than just this?
For example. 
These?

• Consistency on pruning between all the classes? Powertech, Juggernaut, sorcerer, and Lethality specifically got a better treatment. While Sniper, Marauder, and Assassin got hit quite hard.
• Some hard stuns being base line, while other classes have to give up something extremely vital.
• Some defensives were removed or fused with something that makes them contradicting, hindering the class. Aka sniper. Ruthless aggressor/pacify completely gone. 
• Talent rebalancing? Looking at a few dead selections like Predation and Assassin picking between their weak defensive power or mobility. 
• Madness near perm uptime on damage reduction that is as high as a tank assassin. Just why? Give it a shorter duration so upkeep is at least a bit less trivial.
• Immortal getting CC immunity on leap? I can't think this was intentional. 
• Assassin tank is quite weaker than its peers in PvP, while it does bring some unique things it's more of a gimmick. 
• Cut to pieces.
• Qol / Rework for some tacticals? Flame detonation being explodable by shatter slug for example. Or Sweeping slash included in spiteful sabers refresh instead of just slash.

Anyway, I am glad somethings are being looked at.
Good riddance Taunt stun.

[DarrelK]

AP definitely going to be significantly better with these changes. Probably biggest winner.

Sniper to some degree as well.

For operative healers, I don't think this change really makes sense, that choice remains way too bad to take instead of the flat 5% higher healing. At 3 minutes cooldown, it's useless. Especially considering it kills your energy permanently after that (has to reset Adrenaline Probe cooldown too probably).

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Sniper/Gunslinger: 

• Reestablish Range / Reset Engagement is now granted at level 43 for all Snipers / Gunslingers, and the knockback effect has been removed.

Knockback effect should NOT be removed. It is a vital part of the spec’s play style & survivability. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[AwesomeTacoCat]

1 hour ago, ArchingBeast said:

please clarify if this rate limit is alacrity-affected or not. if it is not, the i URGE you to change it to be ASAP, otherwise it will be a hard nerf to IO, which uses Detonator every 13.5 seconds or so, making it have a hugely diminished rate of gained super charge, and ergo strongly nerfed damage.

I/O is another spec that isnt exactly in a great place atm. Especially in pvp it’s pretty trash because it has 0 mobility whatsoever and it’s dcds are easy to counter. I don’t understand why they feel a need to kick certain specs when they’re down. 

[BelisariusD]

Can the intention behind the change to the Random Charge tactical be explained? I'm very concerned about the effect this will have on the Innovative Ordinance spec.