Revert to 6.0 Gearing

[xordevoreaux]

6 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

why some people share comments such "it's working for me so it doesn't matter", "no-one else matters". 

You put words in my mouth I did not utter and hiding behind "some people" doesn't hide who you targeted.

Not at all appreciated.

Edited April 15, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[DeannaVoyager]

14 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

If you lose a time run by 30-60 seconds because of alt switching you don't deserve the time run, most of the timed runs requiere half the time of what the timer is. it Also takes only the time the cast to summon it takes and just one click not 30-60 seconds.

 

First of all you don't know what timer I'm even talking about, so you can just stop your yet another personal attack based on your personal speculation right there. 

Second, the devs have put a certain amount of minutes to complete an operation to get a timer, who the heck do you think you are telling people they don't "deserve" a timer if they are doing it within in that time limit but are also fighting loading screen bugs etc. at the same time. According to you, I probably don't deserve the timer for several alts, where we had less than 1 minute left when the last boss was killed.

Luckily you are not in a position to tell what other people deserve and what not, but if you think I didn't deserve those timers, then by all means,  make a complaint to the devs so that they can remove them.  Make sure you demand them to remove everyone's close timers, not just mine, since according to you, none of us deserve them. 

Third, I'm sorry, did I not measure the time it takes to swap characters correctly for your liking? Too bad, but since you want to communicate on that level, please provide us the exact times of sending character back to SH, drop off gear, log out, log another one in, pick gear, get back into the operation yourself - as you think my estimation was incorrect. Please provide also the same information for different kind of hardware setups, so that we can compare those too, since this totally irrelevant information seems to be important enough for you to use as reason for a personal attack. 

 

 

[DeannaVoyager]

10 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

You put words in my mouth I did not utter and hiding behind "some people" doesn't hide who you targeted.

Not at all appreciated.

No, I am not targeting you specifically, I'm sorry if you got that impression. This is not the first time people say because something is working for them, it doesn't need changing (even if half of the playerbase says it does).  I find it very frustrating because supporting others when they need something costs nothing. In return, those people could/would/should support others when they need something. Supporting others when it doesn't hurt yourself at all is always better than denying support or talking against it, is what I mean. So yeah, it was really a generic comment, but I probably should have made it clearer.

[xxSHOONYxx]

9 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

First of all you don't know what timer I'm even talking about, so you can just stop your yet another personal attack based on your personal speculation right there. 

The only timer that is somewhat tight is DI, all the rest are a joke now.

The devs put a time on runs when they were released and was never adjusted to new skills or damage output, and now with everyone over geared and the reduction of hp of every boss in 7.1 "timers" are not even challenging. True apex could be done at 1 hour even at release, GC and DM can be done in around 30 minutes, EC TFB in +/- 40 minutes, snv in 50 minutes/1 hour, So "30-60 seconds" are nothing.
 

9 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Luckily you are not in a position to tell what other people deserve and what not, but if you think I didn't deserve those timers, then by all means,  make a complaint to the devs so that they can remove them.  Make sure you demand them to remove everyone's close timers, not just mine, since according to you, none of us deserve them. 

I couldn't care less who gets timers, but saying you can lose a timer for swapping gear is a joke. Or i mean you can, if you spend half the time wiping or afking. 
 

9 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Third, I'm sorry, did I not measure the time it takes to swap characters correctly for your liking? Too bad, but since you want to communicate on that level, please provide us the exact times of sending character back to SH, drop off gear, log out, log another one in, pick gear, get back into the operation yourself - as you think my estimation was incorrect. Please provide also the same information for different kind of hardware setups, so that we can compare those too, since this totally irrelevant information seems to be important enough for you to use as reason for a personal attack. 

Now you got caught in your bs and trying to cover yourself trying to add going to other places and what not, you said

"That's superfun if you are doing timed run and you miss it by 30-60 seconds (about the time it takes to load legacy cargo, get gear and equip it). "

To summon legacy cargo and get gear and equip it, only takes 10 seconds at most if you are slow with loadouts

[juliushorst]

Hyde and Zeek made 7.0 gearing acceptable.

See how easy I am to please?

[Ardrossan]

On 4/15/2023 at 4:41 AM, xordevoreaux said:

My level 80 alts on Star Forge are all hauling around in their own 330+ gear, many in 336 with purple augs, and multiple sets of gear in the case of those with varied combat styles, and having spread toons around to the other servers capable of buying off Hyde & Zeek, it's only a matter of credits now, as opposed to the hideous commendations-wasting RNG that was the hallmark of 6.x.

For casuals such as my self, 7.x gearing for alts with the addition of Hyde & Zeek is working just fine.

Top players who want the best work for it. It's why the amazingly talented people in my guild, people who run hard mode ops, don't do what I do; they don't try to gear every toon, they throw sets of the gear in their legacy vaults to share among their toons and call it a day.

I think the point being made is that there are many casuals, like myself, and players with a lot of alts, again like myself, who loved 6.0's system and found it both casual-friendly and alt-friendly. You're welcome to disagree...for reasons. I've read all your comments on the subject and I still don't get your reasoning. Which again, is fine, you're not required to explain yourself beyond what you've already said. 

But to say that 6.0 wasn't alt-friendly or casual friendly isn't really an agree/disagree thing. It didn't work for you, clearly. Going by the forum at least, your experience seems to be atypical. I found it very easy to gear 60+ alts in 6.0, and almost impossible to get higher than 324 in 7.0. YMMV.

On 4/15/2023 at 1:53 PM, xordevoreaux said:

You put words in my mouth I did not utter and hiding behind "some people" doesn't hide who you targeted.

Not at all appreciated.

I can't speak for that player, but if it weren't for overly restrictive automodding on this forum, I for one would be a lot more direct with people and naming them in my posts. We're constrained by rules that force us into these passive aggressive-seeming circumlocutions i.e. "that player", "some people" etc. It doesn't really make any of us more polite lol, it usually does the opposite as you can see. Nobody wants to get their post deleted or worse because of the intrusive community!bot.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Ardrossan
added some clarifying remarks.

[DeannaVoyager]

13 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

So "30-60 seconds" are nothing.

In your opinion. Your opinion doesn't matter, it's not your group, not your timer, not your characters. You just wanted to attack me.

 

13 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

I couldn't care less who gets timers, but saying you can lose a timer for swapping gear is a joke. Or i mean you can, if you spend half the time wiping or afking. 

If you couldn't "care less" you wouldn't have started passing judgements who deserves them and who doesn't. 

 

13 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Now you got caught in your bs and trying to cover yourself trying to add going to other places and what not, you said

Lol, are you just acting ignorant or have you never changed character and transferred in this game before? I guess for you the gear just miraculously transfers to another character, while the rest of the players have to put it in legacy cargo and take it from there with another character. So if someone just got caught of BS it's you.  Please provide proof how you manage to transfer gear without putting it in mailbox or legacy cargo first. 

 

13 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

To summon legacy cargo and get gear and equip it, only takes 10 seconds at most if you are slow with loadouts

So no proof? You are just pulling numbers out of your hat because it happens to fit your false narrative and you needed some excuse to attack me. 

 

 

 

 

[xxSHOONYxx]

10 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

In your opinion. Your opinion doesn't matter, it's not your group, not your timer, not your characters. You just wanted to attack me.

lol, Victim complex much?

10 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

If you couldn't "care less" you wouldn't have started passing judgements who deserves them and who doesn't. 

Because it's easy, it's ludicrous to say or believe that swapping toons can cause someone not being able to get a timer, you are just trying to give a bad example to justify your needs of having 340 gear on every alt when this game already is among if not the friendliest mmo when it comes to alts.
 

10 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Lol, are you just acting ignorant or have you never changed character and transferred in this game before? I guess for you the gear just miraculously transfers to another character, while the rest of the players have to put it in legacy cargo and take it from there with another character. So if someone just got caught of BS it's you.  Please provide proof how you manage to transfer gear without putting it in mailbox or legacy cargo first. 

I often change characters, especially on Nahut, Scyva, Izax, Huntmaster or Apex. Guess how many timers i have lost due to swapping? 0. I have lost timers due to wiping on bosses though. 
It get's to the point is just sad what you are trying to push, do you even know how loadouts work? Do you know that with one click all the gear goes in and out of the legacy cargo? You clearly don't or don't want to use it because of... reasons? Because most of the time "wasted" of swapping is just the loading screens not the gear change that is as "much" as 10 seconds.
Besides that someone has to swap does not mean that everyone else in the group has to stop clearing trash on their way to the next boss

[commanderwar]

Agreed 6.0 gearing was amazing for the game. You could gear up fast, get mods fast, and do whatever you want.

It's sad, not only because they removed it, but put in the worst gearing system this game has ever had.   It's boring it's a slog to go through, and it's just confusing system, a complete mess. I won't list all the problems but to name some others. There are like a dozen currencies just for gearing. From what I have read pvp players can't get 340 , unless they do the newest Ops, and 340 gear doesn't scale down in pvp, that's terrible.  For some reason we have a completely different system to get mods, when before they could of just put the mods in the actual gear. You can't even get 340 mods. There's a weekly limit for currencies. Daily/weekly reset removes all the weeklies/dailies every week or day, is one of the worst decision ever made. Who make these decision?

For 6 years everyone was allowed to max out gear even in 5.0 (until ossus) and 6.0, then one lead dev who had most likely never played the game before, didn't like it, and put in his own gearing. Now we are being told how we should play. 6.0 gear player's way, now gear BW's way.

Not to mention 5.0 and 6.0 gearing problems were fixed pretty fast unlike 7.0 gearing. When Galactic command release, it was bad, but they made the gearing system better which update, including just a few months after release in 5.1. 6.0 massive  gearing problems was fixed in PTS before official release. Now suddenly they refuse to even listen to feedback, hardly made any changes except for small ones. Only thing they change is now currency bag drops from NPC more often, but they also nerfed the amount in each bag, making it useless. The gearing is not fun

It's like the devs making all the decisions, is so disconnected from the playbase, and refuses to believe it's bad.

I hope I am wrong, that they were to busy were launcher update, 64 bit update, and amazon servers, to make any big changes. I hope they revert the gearing back to 6.0.

Edited April 18, 2023 by commanderwar

[DeannaVoyager]

13 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

yadda yadda yadda + other off topic nonsense

People are talking about gearing, you decide to attack me personally for whatever reason this time, passing judgements who deserves timers and who doesn't. We are not talking about timers and you are not a timer police, we are talking about gearing.

 

What I see here is a classic case of entitlement anxiety. You can't have "unworthy" people doing more difficult content without your approval. Feels bad. Get over it and get back  to the topic maybe? 

[xxSHOONYxx]

13 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

cry cry + i want my alts on different 340 gear

It is about gear, yet you come and say you can lose timers because the time it takes to swap gear to alts... 🤣

Again I do not care who gets timers and who doesn't, but if "lose" a timer because of "gear" then the issue is you or your team, not gearing. Can't be explained simpler than this

[DeannaVoyager]

9 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

It is about gear, yet you come and say you can lose timers because the time it takes to swap gear to alts... 🤣

Again I do not care who gets timers and who doesn't, but if "lose" a timer because of "gear" then the issue is you or your team, not gearing. Can't be explained simpler than this

At this point you are only explaining things to yourself. Good luck with that.

[DarthSpekulatius]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:27 AM, DeannaVoyager said:

At this point you are only explaining things to yourself. Good luck with that.

complaining about how long it takes to put gear into the legacy Bank but then claiming the Explanation of how that time can be reduced down to negligible time required is off topic, you aren't any more friendly then xxSHOONYxx is.

 

good luck with convincing anyone SWTORs gear acquisition System is bad when you are the one who deliberately decided to use it wrong.

[recalcitrantIre]

On 4/16/2023 at 3:42 AM, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Why they don't have mods available for 340 is beyond me.

most of what the level 80 mod vendors "fixed" is the "random" tertiary stat distribution on static gear, primarily for the "benefit" of the players that whined and whined and whined and couldn't comprehend the fact that one character can acquire up to four different gear sets now with the slightest modicum of effort

340 gear is all token-vendor based and if you get the wrong tertiary piece, that's on you and nothing else

  

On 4/18/2023 at 8:09 AM, commanderwar said:

 There are like a dozen currencies just for gearing.

there are 5 level 80 gearing currencies, I don't know how people can get basic information so wrong

and if you're following a single gear upgrade path that narrows it down to 3; stabilizers for fp gear, accelerant for wz gear or catalysts for ops gear

tech frags are obviously carried over from 6.0 but are only used for implants at level 80 and once you have those done, frags are basically just free money

 

there is absolutely nothing complicated about 7.x gearing and I'm almost entirely convinced that anyone that thinks its hard is a few screws loose

Edited April 20, 2023 by recalcitrantIre

[VegaMist]

On 4/16/2023 at 5:29 PM, Ardrossan said:

I found it very easy to gear 60+ alts in 6.0, and almost impossible to get higher than 324 in 7.0. YMMV.

OK. This is just plain incorrect.

Ever since the introduction of Hyde and Zeke's quests, gearing up the alts in 336 have been easy, and once ops gear became buyable/upgradable - extremely easy. All you have to do is grind for 1 blue 336 and 1 purple 336. And once you're done, get a quest, deconstruct, and - boom - you have access to 336 mods you can mail to your ENTIRE legacy. All they have to worry about now are implants, ear, and relics. Ear and relics can be earned by other characters in advance and even Legendary Implants can be bought and leveled in advance if you have higher alts of co-responding class (for example, Consular can buy for Sorc, Warrior for Knight, etc.) Most of my alts had a 336 set waiting for them by the time they hit 80. At this point (since all of them are now 80), most have multiple sets (cough, need more inventory room, cough) to go with different combat styles - and, thanks to Hyde and Zeke, I can create a new set from scratch in minutes.

So, saying it's "almost impossible" is just completely wrong.

Edited April 21, 2023 by VegaMist

[LD_Little_Dragon]

4 hours ago, recalcitrantIre said:

most of what the level 80 mod vendors "fixed" is the "random" tertiary stat distribution on static gear, primarily for the "benefit" of the players that whined and whined and whined and couldn't comprehend the fact that one character can acquire up to four different gear sets now with the slightest modicum of effort

340 gear is all token-vendor based and if you get the wrong tertiary piece, that's on you and nothing else

 

No, what the mod vendors did was let you get mods for every class/spec you play easily and without going through the grind again.

Once you open up 336 mods with any class/role, you now have armor/weapons for all of your dps alts even if they have different stat builds, gear for your healers, and gear for your tanks.

You get a full set of 340 gear?  Congratulations, one class/spec is now geared.  Now do it again for all of your other roles.

[recalcitrantIre]

52 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

No, what the mod vendors did was let you get mods for every class/spec you play easily and without going through the grind again.

Once you open up 336 mods with any class/role, you now have armor/weapons for all of your dps alts even if they have different stat builds, gear for your healers, and gear for your tanks.

You get a full set of 340 gear?  Congratulations, one class/spec is now geared.  Now do it again for all of your other roles.

this might come as a shock to you but you can share almost all of your gear between dps/healer specs

different dps specs might need one or two pieces adjusted to compensate for stat variety on implants and healers primarily don't need accuracy, but belt/bracers/relics are an easy effortless share

its not like you have to build a distinct set for every single spec, that wasnt even true for 6.0

[LD_Little_Dragon]

32 minutes ago, recalcitrantIre said:

this might come as a shock to you but you can share almost all of your gear between dps/healer specs

different dps specs might need one I or two pieces adjusted to compensate for stat variety on implants and healers primarily don't need accuracy, but belt/bracers/relics are an easy effortless share

its not like you have to build a distinct set for every single spec, that wasnt even true for 6.0

I know how to gear, I am geared. 

Do you understand that even mirror specs sometimes need different weapons?

I am familiar with how the 7.0 gearing system sorks.  Amazingly you can understand something and still dislike it.

Mods are convenient for many reasons.  Launching 7.0 with only the weird fixed stat gear for endgame where you needed to mix and match sets to get to the basic 110% accuracy for pve was an inexplicable bad design choice.

 

[DeannaVoyager]

20 hours ago, DarthSpekulatius said:

good luck with convincing anyone SWTORs gear acquisition System is bad when you are the one who deliberately decided to use it wrong.

 

I see we also have a gear acquisition police here. Good luck with that.

 

7 hours ago, recalcitrantIre said:

most of what the level 80 mod vendors "fixed" is the "random" tertiary stat distribution on static gear, primarily for the "benefit" of the players that whined and whined and whined and couldn't comprehend the fact that one character can acquire up to four different gear sets now with the slightest modicum of effort

 

I don't know if they planned that we have to pick pieces from one class, then other pieces from another class, but that is part of the reason why the gearing is so messy right now. Since the beginning of the game people could rely on picking the gear that was meant for their class and have correct stats as soon as they got all the pieces. Even if you had different pieces you could also change your stats with mods. This all has been thrown away with unmoddable (bis) gear. Why have stats in the gear at all, if you can't modify them?

 

For those who use 336 gear situation is better. The only stupidity with 336 mods and Hyde and & Zeek is the you need to unlock the vendor and it only unlocks for one character. It should be legacy. 

 

1 hour ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Mods are convenient for many reasons.  Launching 7.0 with only the weird fixed stat gear for endgame where you needed to mix and match sets to get to the basic 110% accuracy for pve was an inexplicable bad design choice.

This. I can understand unmoddable gear when leveling up, you are supposed to toss it as soon as you get better stuff. But endgame gear should should always be moddable. 

[eabevella]

If 7.0 wasn't so bad and BW didn't lost enough subscribers, they wouldn't have released Hyde and Seek in 7.1.

7.1 made the gearing situation acceptable with Hyde and Seek, but you still see new/returning players who are confused by the 3 (fp/op/pvp) + 2 (daily/tf) tokens/mats needed to buy gears and the "right" kind of gear you need for Hyde and Seek all the time. It will be much better if they just combine the fp/op/pvp tokens in 1.

Ps: the prototype vs artifact gear type is very confusing since there's nowhere clearly in game or from the vendors that tells you what does "prototype" or "artifact" mean. I can't remember how many times I have to explain and emphasize it to new/returning players.

[kirorx]

It would be nice is gear drops were an improvement again and not only equal.

Gear boxes give replace your lowest piece, but isnt my lowest piece going to be the "set bonus" implant since they are one level below max level atm. 

I also hate Daily Resource Matrix; I really hate stopping what I am doing to go do daily areas. Again I realize that you can get upgrades from gear boxes, but they are rando pieces and its the relics that are  Pain in the Back side atm. 

 

I dont hate that the current content does promote people doing more WBs and stuff, but since Relics are a Pain to upgrade, maybe we can decrease the DRM needs for those or something

 

Side Bar: The devs want to make credit sinks like quick travel bills, but the biggest credit sink ever was amplifiers and I loved them, because I customizing my characters stats. I wouldn't mind seeing those again. 

[VegaMist]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

The only stupidity with 336 mods and Hyde and & Zeek is the you need to unlock the vendor and it only unlocks for one character. It should be legacy. 

Agreed since the mods are legacy bound anyway. Would eliminate mailing the mods, logging back and forth, and allow alts to gear themselves rather than using your main as a personal shopper.

[VegaMist]

41 minutes ago, kirorx said:

It would be nice is gear drops were an improvement again and not only equal.

Gear boxes give replace your lowest piece, but isnt my lowest piece going to be the "set bonus" implant since they are one level below max level atm. 

They are an improvement of your lower piece. Also, after a recent update, implants should no longer drop from the gear boxes.

[Lakemine]

Honestly the 6.x was the best gearing system, the only way to "fix" it is add ALL mods to a vendor for TFs or creds to BiS and OPs tokens for people who only do OPs. BOOM. Best gearing system that works for everyone and every game mode and everything. (Also remove gear from pvp so everyone has the same stats to make it ACTUALLY balanced or no stat cap so everyone can get the best gear and go against others with high gear. Can't have this hybrid both that ruins both.)

7.x gearing is horrendous on SO many levels. Yes they made it a bit better with the mod vendor, but its character locked. That is very dumb and a removal of QoL.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Lakemine

[Toraak]

2 hours ago, Lakemine said:

Honestly the 6.x was the best gearing system, the only way to "fix" it is add ALL mods to a vendor for TFs or creds to BiS and OPs tokens for people who only do OPs. BOOM. Best gearing system that works for everyone and every game mode and everything. (Also remove gear from pvp so everyone has the same stats to make it ACTUALLY balanced or no stat cap so everyone can get the best gear and go against others with high gear. Can't have this hybrid both that ruins both.)

7.x gearing is horrendous on SO many levels. Yes they made it a bit better with the mod vendor, but its character locked. That is very dumb and a removal of QoL.

The mod vendor is only character locked to a point. You can only buy them on the character that did the quests true, but everything you buy is Legacy bound. So all you need to do is mail the mods to whatever alt you want them on, or put them in Legacy Storage, and pull them out on whatever alt you wanted them on.