CarpeSangrea Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 23 hours ago, remylion said: it is a credit sink. We already have these when we travel between planets or use speeders (speeders are much cheaper though). Most MMOs use credit sinks liberally to fight inflation. Credit sinks alone do not fix inflation issues, but they help lower the rate at which inflation increases in the games economy. Every MMO I have played has tiny credit sinks like this for traveling. I was shocked to find I could travel around instantly for free in this game. I guess having almost no credit sinks in the game is why inflation is so high and simple cosmetics from the GTN cost hundreds of millions if not billions of credits. Do you want credit sinks that have very little individual impact but reduce inflation by billions a day or do you want inflation to keep increasing until credits are completely worthless? This is a grossly fallacious comparison. Imagine the reaction in the WoW community if they started charging people to use their hearthstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remylion Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, CarpeSangrea said: This is a grossly fallacious comparison. Imagine the reaction in the WoW community if they started charging people to use their hearthstone. you are fallaciously comparing WoWs economy to SWTORs economy on a one to one basis while WoW has more credit sinks, a healthier gold economy, and even a gold to subscription based credit sink which controls the value of gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, remylion said: a healthier gold economy LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__andrea__ Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I saw this and was like "WTF?" It's like they deliberately aim to piss people off! To what reasoning was this though of and carried out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remylion Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, __andrea__ said: I saw this and was like "WTF?" It's like they deliberately aim to piss people off! To what reasoning was this though of and carried out? It is a credit sink. Google it or watch a few video's on Youtube specifically "gold sinks in MMOs" if you want to understand the basics of MMO economies. You can read devs blog or the posts on this very thread if you want to understand what credit sinks are or how they work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumZLwFXJqE Edited March 30, 2023 by remylion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, remylion said: It is a credit sink. Google it or watch a few video's on Youtube specifically "gold sinks in MMOs" if you want to understand the basics of MMO economies. You can read devs blog or the posts on this very thread if you want to understand what credit sinks are or how they work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumZLwFXJqE You have gained 100 points in your "Pretentious" stat. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladedDingo Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, CarpeSangrea said: This is a grossly fallacious comparison. Imagine the reaction in the WoW community if they started charging people to use their hearthstone. Wow's hearth stone only takes you back to one location, the inn you bound it to. If you want to travel some where else in the zone, you have to take a taxi/flight path - which... OMG COST GOLD! WHAAAAAAAT!!!! it's almost as if traveling in WoW removes a small amount of gold! incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJediKnight Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) The quick travel fees are gratuitous and stupid. Do they really expect a few thousand credits a day to damage whales who are capped at 100 billion? Meanwhile, newbies on planets like Coruscant are legitimately hurt by the policy, thereby risking their potential retention/subscription dollars. Honestly, this is amateurish inflation control at best - it isn't going to fix anything, and it's screwing the people who had nothing to do with the problem in the first place. In the least, I want to see the policy rolled back... although a more definitive response would be to fire the person who decided to implement it. And don't tell me "they know what they're doing." No, they clearly don't. Because the game's economy never would have reached this state if anyone running it had a clue how to manage it. This isn't the national debt - it isn't even the equivalent of a small town budget. It's fake currency in a made-up world. And these clowns can't even tackle that? Axe them. Edited March 30, 2023 by AJediKnight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, AJediKnight said: The quick travel fees are gratuitous and stupid. Do they really expect a few thousand credits a day to damage whales who are capped at 100 billion? Meanwhile, newbies on planets like Coruscant are legitimately hurt by the policy, thereby risking their potential retention/subscription dollars. No, because this is not intended as a fix for inflation. But I do agree that they went about perhaps the worst way of implementing this system. By having the cost to quick travel be so much more, even when travelling the same distance, than it is to take a taxi they have created a tax on convenience rather than implementing a travel tax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remylion Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, CarpeSangrea said: You have gained 100 points in your "Pretentious" stat. not everyone is a veteran in MMOs or enjoys playing with economies. You may want to give those video's a watch. They are easy to watch and should explain the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 hours ago, remylion said: you are fallaciously comparing WoWs economy to SWTORs economy on a one to one basis while WoW has more credit sinks, a healthier gold economy, and even a gold to subscription based credit sink which controls the value of gold. And instead of copying WoWs solutions BW decides to roll back the enhanced player mobility they touted as one of the big QoL changes, back when they switched to the "level only via the story and travel fast between quests". But hey, once you're here long enough, you realize everything is cyclical. Issues introduced today are the groundwork for improvements down the line. A cynic might say it's all premeditated in lieu actual development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, aeterno said: And instead of copying WoWs solutions BW decides to roll back the enhanced player mobility they touted as one of the big QoL changes, back when they switched to the "level only via the story and travel fast between quests". But hey, once you're here long enough, you realize everything is cyclical. Issues introduced today are the groundwork for improvements down the line. A cynic might say it's all premeditated in lieu actual development. Having been through most of the changes that have come about since the game launched, I have to agree with this. 18 minutes ago, remylion said: not everyone is a veteran in MMOs or enjoys playing with economies. You may want to give those video's a watch. They are easy to watch and should explain the basics. See previous statement. 1 hour ago, BladedDingo said: Wow's hearth stone only takes you back to one location, the inn you bound it to. If you want to travel some where else in the zone, you have to take a taxi/flight path - which... OMG COST GOLD! WHAAAAAAAT!!!! it's almost as if traveling in WoW removes a small amount of gold! incredible! And if that location happens to be where all the portals are, not only can you access most of the major locations in the entire game for free, but flight masters cost the equivalent of less than a single quest's worth of gold. Not even in the same ballpark. Edited March 30, 2023 by CarpeSangrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie_Swift Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 This is probably the most thoughtless (to put it nicely) idea ever conceived in this MMO. Making everyone suffer rather than to come up with the suggestions proposed in PTS. They never listen to the playerbase and get themselves in a mess over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bncsmom Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 9:16 AM, GalaxyWeasel said: WHY IN THE GALAXY do we now have to pay for quick travel, when it used to be free?! The whole point of using the quick travel was to get to the different points WITHOUT having to pay to use a taxi. WHAT IN THE GALAXY were they thinking...?! Exactly. And some of us paid with REAL MONEY to use QT through using Cartel Coins we purchased to open it up. So, what the actual heck, Bioware??? Why did you do this when you KNEW we paid with REAL MONEY to have this feature??? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 18 hours ago, remylion said: so the current state of SWTOR's credit economy is hyper-inflation due to there not being enough credit sinks in the game for years... and your fix for this is to remove more credit sinks to save the "new players" and that you can not stand being nickeled and dimed? It is not my job to fix the system. Sure, it's nice when we offer suggestions, but it's their job to address issues we raise. I do not like their solution, so I am telling them about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, Sappharan said: It is not my job to fix the system. Sure, it's nice when we offer suggestions, but it's their job to address issues we raise. I do not like their solution, so I am telling them about it. That is one of a particular pair of posters who is arguing just to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 51 minutes ago, CarpeSangrea said: That is one of a particular pair of posters who is arguing just to argue. Instead of arguing the merits of your position, or dismantling the merits of mine, you're going to poison the well. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sappharan said: Instead of arguing the merits of your position, or dismantling the merits of mine, you're going to poison the well. Bravo. You realize I was actually talking about the person you were responding to and not you, right? I agree with you. Edited March 31, 2023 by CarpeSangrea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just now, CarpeSangrea said: You realize I was actually talking about the person you were responding to and not you, right? LOL...so I am the butthole here. Heh. I am very, very tired tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just now, Sappharan said: LOL...so I am the butthole here. Heh. I am very, very tired tonight. As someone who frequently has to deal with sleep deprivation issues, I totally get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eabevella Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, CarpeSangrea said: That is one of a particular pair of posters who is arguing just to argue. Argue, criticize, defend, insult, whatever, it won't reach them. It's not like Bioware takes feedback unless they do something so stupid there's a mass unsubscribe. So this great step to fix the inflation will stay because it only hurts new/casual players and not subscribers like me who have billions of credits and billions worth of CM items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_Little_Dragon Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, CarpeSangrea said: That is one of a particular pair of posters who is arguing just to argue. Yeah, I've noticed that. Funny how so many really new posters end up being so eager to jump to bioware's defence. Usually with 'you don't understand what bioware is doing' type of defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shayddow Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 where it hurts is on where we have accounts across all servers that don't have millions of credits. I mean, my characters on Malgus and Star Forge will be fine with the credits -- although it DOES p*** me off to have to pay credits for something I've already unlocked cool-down with RL $ (cartel coins) years ago --, but my alts on Tulak, Leviathan and Shan are not exactly swimming in credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 21 hours ago, remylion said: so the current state of SWTOR's credit economy is hyper-inflation due to there not being enough credit sinks in the game for years... and your fix for this is to remove more credit sinks to save the "new players" and that you can not stand being nickeled and dimed? There were credit sinks, they were just preempted by Cartel Market sales. There are ways to bleed down all the trillions of credits, but not if the cartel market stays untouchable. Put some of those CM items for sale for credits. The devs have no intention of fixing the problem. they just want you to think they care and keep on shoveling profits to the CM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 42 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said: Yeah, I've noticed that. Funny how so many really new posters end up being so eager to jump to bioware's defence. Usually with 'you don't understand what bioware is doing' type of defence. lol idk, it makes a lot of sense to me. Veterans typically have years and years of built up bitterness about ignored feedback and changes they didn't like. I remember quite a few people who aren't on the forum anymore who used to be VERY positive, almost white knights, but slowly over time they got more and more critical until they were pretty much indistinguishable from the TORTanics of old. I think a big reason for this is that 1) Bioware doesn't really reward long term subs with anything but more of the same and 2) time after time, people white knighted for bioware only for the devs to do what the critics wanted. I remember a guy who was always bashing players who just wanted the stat gain from datacrons and didn't want to do it on every character, and he had all these arguments about entitlement and lazy gamers and welp, Bioware released legacy datacrons and he never said a word about it again. Very few guilds I'm in for SS/SF have players that go to the forum, or if they do, they lurk. They're long term players but they don't have the same residual cynicism for the devs that a lot of us have. And for the new players who don't have dozens of alts, the game probably looks pretty great, bioware looks pretty competent, still alive after ten years? It's honestly amazing. So yeah, they've still got faith in the studio. Maybe they're right, idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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