Itemization in 7.0

[Eli_Porter]

And not only that, if you pick sniper, you can NEVER change to anything else besides VG. VG and Sniper is ALL YOU CAN DO. You can only pick 2 combat styles and your locked into, permanently. Its on the PTR now.

 

Since they're letting players brick their chars by doing stuff like Sniper+Gunslinger or Sentinel+Marauder, I'm almost 100% certain they'll add a secondary combat style respec token in the CM at some point.

[AdjeYo]

How and why does it hurt you that someone weaker or not as experienced as you can get the same level of gear? 6.0 is the best gearing system SWTOR has ever had. (The ONLY way to make it better is add the mods to the vendor so players can CHOOSE (remember choices are a GOOD THING for players) and OPs tokens for OPs players. If they would have added those 2 things, it would be the best gearing system SWTOR has ever had.) The only negative I see is people who are insecure "NEED" to have a higher number then other people lower then them for selfish reasons. Look up the definition of a narcissist, its based in selfishness at the expense of others.

 

Seriously, please explain how someone else getting gear that helps them is somehow RUINING and detrimental to your game you are paying for?

 

It's not that it ruins my game if someone else gets the gear solo, it's that making it (as easily) earnable through solo play/flashpoints, removes the sense of character progression from NiMs. Nobody in their right mind is going to set foot in NiM with anything less than 306 gear right now.

 

I don't like them restricting mods to higher tier gear, everyone should definitely be able to mod their gear, but I really don't see why it's such an issue that NiM raiders get to earn a little higher item rating that can be gained from solo/flashpoints. It makes it so that when I'm raiding, those boss drops will actually be interesting, and might slightly imrpove my character, rather than maybe occasionally getting a piece that might be useful for an alt.

 

Also, if the reason for doing HMNIM content is not for titles, mounts, achievements and prestige, but for GEAR? Then maybe you need to rethink why your even playing this game, or actually any game to be honest, at all. The titles stay, the mounts stay, the achievements stay, the prestige of the sense of pride and accomplishment stays. Gear? As we see, it gets trashed every xpac. All that time and effort completely and utterly wasted. So if your sole focus is to do HM/NIM content JUST for gear.........you maybe need to rethink why your playing games.

The reason for doing NiM content is that it's fun. Still, gear progression is a fundamental design feature in most mmo's (including swtor!) and it's fun. The feeling of your character slowly becoming more and more powerful and getting better numbers, that's fun. Nobody is doing NiM just for gear, but it is one aspect. Also even if I were to do it just because for the gear, that doesn't mean the time spent is wasted when the gear gets trashed. As long as the time spent getting it was fun, it wasn't wasted time at all.

[AdjeYo]

Also with combat styles? You can ONLY have 1 secondary. Once you pick it, you can NEVER change EVER. Its permanent. You pick two, and that's it. Can never pick beyond those two. EVER.

 

They've been pretty open about the two combat styles limit for a while now. On the hand, it's a bit of a shame, on the other hand it does keep alts more relevant.

 

And as said by other, I'm 100% expecting they'll add a refund token to the CM at some point.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

I said something very similar above and never disagreed with it. The desciption can be whatever you want it to be, as I said it before. That is like the least important statement of eveything I said. You decided to disagee with my statement, out of the whole text you specifically picked the "genre" part. Now you are pulling back saying it doesn't matter. Then why did you adress it in the first place? Thanks, cap, for telling me that "the story is a big part of the game", you truly enlightened me.

Now go play the story, encounter the totally not recycled Valkorion for the 900th time and turn subtitles on. Maybe it will help you understand texts and get what the general ideas of one are.

 

Peace out, baby.

 

Just to quote you again since you seem to have forgotten what you said:

 

P.S.: There is no such thing or genre as a "story-oriented MMO RPG" or "Singleplayer oriented MMO"

 

Emphasis mine. You didn't just say the genre doesn't exist, you said it wasn't a thing either, and it definitively is. So don't sit here and insult me as if I don't know what words are, when you're trying to move the goalposts on what you said because you realize you were wrong. I responded to what you said, don't blame me that what you actually said is suddenly inconvenient now that you've seen the context of how Bioware advertises and promotes their game.

 

But yeah, sure, "peace out."

Edited November 11, 2021 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Eli_Porter]

It's not that it ruins my game if someone else gets the gear solo, it's that making it (as easily) earnable through solo play/flashpoints, removes the sense of character progression from NiMs. Nobody in their right mind is going to set foot in NiM with anything less than 306 gear right now.

 

I don't like them restricting mods to higher tier gear, everyone should definitely be able to mod their gear, but I really don't see why it's such an issue that NiM raiders get to earn a little higher item rating that can be gained from solo/flashpoints. It makes it so that when I'm raiding, those boss drops will actually be interesting, and might slightly imrpove my character, rather than maybe occasionally getting a piece that might be useful for an alt.

 

NiM raiders already get RPM's. With the removal of renown ranks solo players will be getting way less tech fragments to buy RPM's with, and on top of that conquest will no longer reward credits or augment components players can profit from.

 

I think there are 5 tiers of players:

 

Solo players:

 

- 4 item rating behind NiM raiders

- Can only access unoptimized conquest armor (high endurance/low tertiary)

- Too poor to afford gold augments

 

Group Finder players (FP/GSF/Unranked PvP)

 

- 4 item rating behind NiM raiders (PvP has a cap, though people will complain anyway)

- Too poor to afford gold augments

 

Social players (Operations up to old HM's)

 

- 2 item rating behind NiM raiders

- Too poor to afford gold augments

 

Ranked PvP'ers (Group/Solo ranked)

 

- 4 item rating behind NiM raiders (PvP has a cap, though people will complain anyway)

+ Reasonable access to gold augments

 

NiM/Prog Raiders

 

+ Access to max item rating

+ Reasonable access to gold augments

Edited November 11, 2021 by Eli_Porter

[Lakemine]

how so? currently even with 270 gear u can 1 shot standard mobs and almost 1 shot silver mobs there is no challenge whatsoever in 99% of solo content

 

Have you ever stopped to think that not everyone is a clone of you?

 

I can solo HM FPs as well, but my mom can't, a few friends I play with can't. Heck some of them can't get through some solo FPs and need my help, which i'm glad to give......OH WAIT, BioWare removed that option for some dumb reasons, so they HAVE to solo it now, and the gear helped them survive instead of themselves getting one shot.

 

Also I saw earlier you pointed out the GSI 'GOD" droid......uh.....do you even play the game? LOL The last 5 FPs have NOT had it. The last one that had the GSI droid was Rishi. Every FP since then has a lv1 storyline companion that is WEAK. So no, your information, while semi accurate, is flawed. If the GSI droid was in EVERY solo FP, (which even before they removed it from the last 5, it wasn't in every FP. The GSI droid is only in Esseles, Black Talon, Taral V, Maelstrom Prison, Boarding Party, The Foundry, Directive 7, Battle of Ilum, False Emperor, Tython, Korriban, Manaan, Rakata, Blood Hunt and Rishi.) then your statements of gear would maybe maybe MAYBE have some merit to them. (course your mindset, behavior and demeanor is shameful and evil and basically invalidates your concept.)

 

The GSI droid is NOT in every FP, and I can say with almost 100% accuracy it won't be added to Ruins of Nul. I have been asking for the GSI droid to help solo players because they removed the option of me helping to co-op with them (in an MMO no less ROFL XD You say this is an MMO, yet do not speak of why they removed multiplayer content from the game.) for years now, still no answer. Atm, Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandolorian Raiders, Cademimu, Colicoid Wargames, Red Reaper, Kaon, Lost Island, Umbara, Copero, Nathema, SoV and SoE do NOT have the GSI droid but should.

 

I think maybe if you advocated for the GSI droid in every FP, maybe people wouldn't need your pearl clutching tools to complete STORYLINE in a STORYLINE MMO. Gear is a tool, not a reward. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

And trust me, I get it. We can solo HM FPs, but not every other player can, and some have issues with solo storyline ones because of BioWare's horrendous "balancing". Also another reason why people are upset by static gear, because they can't work around BioWare's idiocy anymore.

 

And just like I asked the question before, please explain to me how someone else having the same number next to their name as you is somehow ruining and is detrimental to your gaming experience your paying for? Because all I can see is it hurts your ego......which I do not believe is a justification to harm other people. But if I am miss understanding or missing information, feel free to fill me in. I do love learning.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Lakemine

[Lakemine]

NiM raiders already get RPM's. With the removal of renown ranks solo players will be getting way less tech fragments to buy RPM's with, and on top of that conquest will no longer reward credits or augment components players can profit from.

 

I think there are 5 tiers of players:

 

Solo players:

 

- 4 item rating behind NiM raiders

- Can only access unoptimized conquest armor (high endurance/low tertiary)

- Too poor to afford gold augments

 

Group Finder players (FP/GSF/Unranked PvP)

 

- 4 item rating behind NiM raiders (PvP has a cap, though people will complain anyway)

- Too poor to afford gold augments

 

Social players (Operations up to old HM's)

 

- 2 item rating behind NiM raiders

- Too poor to afford gold augments

 

Ranked PvP'ers (Group/Solo ranked)

 

- 4 item rating behind NiM raiders (PvP has a cap, though people will complain anyway)

+ Reasonable access to gold augments

 

NiM/Prog Raiders

 

+ Access to max item rating

+ Reasonable access to gold augments

 

Thank you for laying it out succinctly. As I said before in response to someone saying "Who is this system for!?!?", "Find the group or people who benefit or benefit the most, and you find who they want to focus on."

[Lakemine]

It's not that it ruins my game if someone else gets the gear solo, it's that making it (as easily) earnable through solo play/flashpoints, removes the sense of character progression from NiMs. Nobody in their right mind is going to set foot in NiM with anything less than 306 gear right now.

 

I don't like them restricting mods to higher tier gear, everyone should definitely be able to mod their gear, but I really don't see why it's such an issue that NiM raiders get to earn a little higher item rating that can be gained from solo/flashpoints. It makes it so that when I'm raiding, those boss drops will actually be interesting, and might slightly imrpove my character, rather than maybe occasionally getting a piece that might be useful for an alt.

 

 

The reason for doing NiM content is that it's fun. Still, gear progression is a fundamental design feature in most mmo's (including swtor!) and it's fun. The feeling of your character slowly becoming more and more powerful and getting better numbers, that's fun. Nobody is doing NiM just for gear, but it is one aspect. Also even if I were to do it just because for the gear, that doesn't mean the time spent is wasted when the gear gets trashed. As long as the time spent getting it was fun, it wasn't wasted time at all.

 

I guess that can make sense.

 

Question on a different system. Like what someone else already pointed out with Destiny 2. Pinnicles are the top gear in that game (and its a ever moving goal post btw, each pinnicle doesn't just give max rating BiS, it only gives 1-2 ratings about what your average is, so you have to continually keep running the weeklys to get them slowly higher and higher.) and there are some pinnicales for solo content (The Europa Exo Simulation), others are play list (Play 3 strikes, play 3 gambit matches, play 3 pvp matches etc etc), but the best way to get higher numbers? Is raids. Raids ALWAYS give pinnicles that are 2-3 ratings higher AND each boss gives a 1-2 pinnicle.

 

So does it take a solo player many more weeklys and months to get max rating? (which is 1330 atm) Yep, but they still can if they want. But raiders just get their faster.

 

Is that a system that is ok if copied to SWTOR?

 

EDIT: Oh another thing I forgot to mention. Grandmaster Nightfalls (kinda like super hard FPs). They are gear locked to 1345 (have to have full 1330 and your artifact level to minimum 25+) So should gear locking be in this game as well? Yeah, "anyone" can get max rating, but it takes time for solo players because they can only get 4-6 pieces each week, while raiders have access to 15+, and then with gear rating locking content, it means that you KNOW people in it have put in the time for the gear rating and probably know what they are doing. (Obviously with ALL randoms, its hit or miss.)

Edited November 11, 2021 by Lakemine

[Exly]

Regarding the topic itself: I never cared about gearing. I despise 7.0 for other reasons. And I cancelled my sub and by now made peace with transitioning to preferred after December.

 

This is the only way that they maybe get a sense of what they are causing (unless, as some assume, this is actually exactly what they intend to achieve). You don't have to quit the game. Just stop paying until they stop making decisions that you dislike. I'm really calm now that I decided to quit paying. They have two options: Keep me happy as a player and get my money. Make me an unhappy player and lose my money. I mean, at the end it's their loss more than mine, because I keep the game, but they lose my money. So be it then.

 

If you feel similar, just make sure you actually go through with it and hit that unsub button for real. Don't just threaten to do it as happened so often in the past.

 

I agree with your entire post, but I think what you said here is important for more people to see. As you have pointed out, if you don't want to do ops, and you can do everything else in the game that you do enjoy, then why pay to play when you could play for free. People who don't want to do ops should probably cancel their subscription if paying to play has no real benefits for them.

[Galandro]

Will we keep access to the items in the Renown stash? I still have a bunch of pets and mounts stored in those across my legacy and I dip into it when I make a new character.

[JakRoanin]

Wow in an mmoRPG how dare Role Players have any voice at all. Scandalous I tell you. Can we have more info on how this new upgrade system works? Since the item rating is capped, and the gear is static, just what will we be upgrading?

[chaharbagh]

What will happen to the items in the Renown Stash window, Jackie?

[juliushorst]

What these WK had and have in common is that they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. No new account, but mostly unknown here, and without noteworthy participation in the past.

 

My guess would be those are people from the secret Discord.

[Dareel]

I don't really like to run-repeat same static PvE content (FPs/OPs), with same mobs in the same places doing the same thing, over and over and over again till my eyes fall out, it's mind numbing to me, and let's face it - majority of players are running easiest & fastest ones for those exact reasons. I could enjoy it from time to time, and I like to repeat other less scripted activities, like PvP. So I get it, you'd been repeating the same FPs/OPs for years, MMs/NiMs are end-game content, you know them like a back of your hand, players want to feel special for doing (repeating) it more and more (no sarcasm here), especially with all the troubles of organizing groups, so this trivial and old as genre itself solution of having a few ilvls higher gear looks like that tiny shred of special/superior and you are willing to overlook anything not-good these systems/changes bring. I'm not trying to insult anybody, if you feel like it insults you - sincerely sorry.

 

So as not to repeat -

overall thoughts on a PTS forum ->

a bit more thoughts in General ->

a bit more thoughts on a PTS forum ->

 

In addition to those posts (more like closing argument):

 

There are different players playing this game, and (majority at very least) playing it to have fun. Solo players are going to get hit very hard with those changes. There are reasons for people to be solo players (no need to repeat them, all known, there are threads about) and I bet non of them need a reason to feel "less than" when they are playing a game, especially when players' been playing with the one of the most inclusive systems (current / 6.0) and saw/felt/experienced it was possible. For you maybe this inability to get highest ilvl is a minor thing or you're fine with justifying it with "don't need", or just don't care, etc., but for others it could be a disheartening feeling in the back of a head that no matter what they do, no matter how much time they invest they won't ever be able to get it (their character won't be as strong). Takes away enjoyment and replaces it with not a good feeling.

 

Community in SWTOR is one of the best communities I experienced in any MMO. It rivals FFXIV community easy, imo. But it's a game were both spending time and getting loot are very important. Current systems have a safety net (one currency for upgrades, same pool of items...) so when player enters a bad pug or something goes wrong in a group, or anything else that have a change of waste of time - it never feels like a complete waste of time, and some progression towards better gear / power of your character is still possible. New gearing system + curated content/activities take this safety net away, because of separate paths for gear, currencies, weekly/daily activities with bonuses... not even a chance of a backup from crafting (there is no crafting in 7.0). So it's going to be possible to completely 100% waste time. WoW was like this for years (it still had a backup from crafting at least up to a certain point) - there is no need for a long research to see how toxicity levels in it's community were rising. To put it simply - if there is a real possibility of complete waste of time then toxicity you can experience in Ranked will be a minimum across all other activities, "let's go already. faster! FASTER! ..." are going to quite often be a nicest thing players tell each other. Maybe you're OK with it, maybe it's OK other games have it like this... but overall it's not a good thing.

 

In a game where gear ilvls are constantly changing and gear you're getting to become obsolete time and time again - the only real and meaningful rewards for progression and doing hard content - are Cosmetics. Unique Cosmetics.

 

6.0 system could easily be made more interesting for raiders / end-game content runners by removing RNG boxes, increasing tech fragments prices and tech fragments rewards from OPs to accommodate increased prices for players doing that content. Solo/Casual grinds for a half a year, pro raider for a month, or something like that, but most importantly there is no restrictions on what you can get and there is a freedom of choice of what you want to play every time you log in.

 

Add cool and unique cosmetics to NiM OPs, with a low chance of dropping, each op drops different parts (so there is a need to do them all), make new cosmetics each expansion - there you have it - faster and more meaningful gear progression for raiders and meaningful rewards.

 

It's a pity, Blizzard and WoW are definitely not something you would want to take inspiration from. Learning from their mistakes would be much more beneficial. Especially when you already have a better, much more flexible and improvement-ready system.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Dareel

[Pricia]

So how will we get tech fragments?

[Akushii]

So how will we get tech fragments?

 

They haven't announced anything, but I would imagine that it will be similar to now? As in, you will get tech frags for completing conquests, completing weeklies, group finder, from boss drops in FP/OPs, from PvP, dismantling gear etc. I think the only place it's going away from is the Renown Crates.

 

Where do the 'big chunk' tech frags drop from currently? I don't really pay attention to it until I get the warning message for maxxing tech frags.

[Lakemine]

I agree with your entire post, but I think what you said here is important for more people to see. As you have pointed out, if you don't want to do ops, and you can do everything else in the game that you do enjoy, then why pay to play when you could play for free. People who don't want to do ops should probably cancel their subscription if paying to play has no real benefits for them.

 

QoL abilities, more characters, no credit cap, access to xpacs and storylines and leveling systems, and atm gearing but soon to be removed. Not everyone who subs ONLY does it for OPs, some people just like having more options and things that make the game easier and more fun. That's it.

 

Plus its their money, its not yours. They can spend it how they want. How does that effect other players?

[Lakemine]

Will we keep access to the items in the Renown stash? I still have a bunch of pets and mounts stored in those across my legacy and I dip into it when I make a new character.

 

Nope. But we don't know what will happen to those items. My guess is either they will be destroyed or sent in the mail to the first character you log into after it launches.

[Lakemine]

I don't really like to run-repeat same static PvE content (FPs/OPs), with same mobs in the same places doing the same thing, over and over and over again till my eyes fall out, it's mind numbing to me, and let's face it - majority of players are running easiest & fastest ones for those exact reasons. I could enjoy it from time to time, and I like to repeat other less scripted activities, like PvP. So I get it, you'd been repeating the same FPs/OPs for years, MMs/NiMs are end-game content, you know them like a back of your hand, players want to feel special for doing (repeating) it more and more (no sarcasm here), especially with all the troubles of organizing groups, so this trivial and old as genre itself solution of having a few ilvls higher gear looks like that tiny shred of special/superior and you are willing to overlook anything not-good these systems/changes bring. I'm not trying to insult anybody, if you feel like it insults you - sincerely sorry.

 

So as not to repeat -

overall thoughts on a PTS forum ->

a bit more thoughts in General ->

a bit more thoughts on a PTS forum ->

 

In addition to those posts (more like closing argument):

 

There are different players playing this game, and (majority at very least) playing it to have fun. Solo players are going to get hit very hard with those changes. There are reasons for people to be solo players (no need to repeat them, all known, there are threads about) and I bet non of them need a reason to feel "less than" when they are playing a game, especially when players' been playing with the one of the most inclusive systems (current / 6.0) and saw/felt/experienced it was possible. For you maybe this inability to get highest ilvl is a minor thing or you're fine with justifying it with "don't need", or just don't care, etc., but for others it could be a disheartening feeling in the back of a head that no matter what they do, no matter how much time they invest they won't ever be able to get it (their character won't be as strong). Takes away enjoyment and replaces it with not a good feeling.

 

Community in SWTOR is one of the best communities I experienced in any MMO. It rivals FFXIV community easy, imo. But it's a game were both spending time and getting loot are very important. Current systems have a safety net (one currency for upgrades, same pool of items...) so when player enters a bad pug or something goes wrong in a group, or anything else that have a change of waste of time - it never feels like a complete waste of time, and some progression towards better gear / power of your character is still possible. New gearing system + curated content/activities take this safety net away, because of separate paths for gear, currencies, weekly/daily activities with bonuses... not even a chance of a backup from crafting (there is no crafting in 7.0). So it's going to be possible to completely 100% waste time. WoW was like this for years (it still had a backup from crafting at least up to a certain point) - there is no need for a long research to see how toxicity levels in it's community were rising. To put it simply - if there is a real possibility of complete waste of time then toxicity you can experience in Ranked will be a minimum across all other activities, "let's go already. faster! FASTER! ..." are going to quite often be a nicest thing players tell each other. Maybe you're OK with it, maybe it's OK other games have it like this... but overall it's not a good thing.

 

In a game where gear ilvls are constantly changing and gear you're getting to become obsolete time and time again - the only real and meaningful rewards for progression and doing hard content - are Cosmetics. Unique Cosmetics.

 

6.0 system could easily be made more interesting for raiders / end-game content runners by removing RNG boxes, increasing tech fragments prices and tech fragments rewards from OPs to accommodate increased prices for players doing that content. Solo/Casual grinds for a half a year, pro raider for a month, or something like that, but most importantly there is no restrictions on what you can get and there is a freedom of choice of what you want to play every time you log in.

 

Add cool and unique cosmetics to NiM OPs, with a low chance of dropping, each op drops different parts (so there is a need to do them all), make new cosmetics each expansion - there you have it - faster and more meaningful gear progression for raiders and meaningful rewards.

 

It's a pity, Blizzard and WoW are definitely not something you would want to take inspiration from. Learning from their mistakes would be much more beneficial. Especially when you already have a better, much more flexible and improvement-ready system.

 

Thank you, and I agree with everything ^

[Lakemine]

They've been pretty open about the two combat styles limit for a while now. On the hand, it's a bit of a shame, on the other hand it does keep alts more relevant.

 

And as said by other, I'm 100% expecting they'll add a refund token to the CM at some point.

 

Yeah, I just found that out from the PTS feedback forum. I have no idea how I missed this for 4 months. MONTHS. I have read every dev post. Its greatly depressing and angering, so sorry to the devs where I said it seemed like they were lying.

 

Oh 100% agreed with you. But having it cost $20 (2000 CC) will make ALOT of people mad, since the price is $15 for a month.

[Tsillah]

I'm a solo player, been playing subbed 5+ years straight, before the 7.0 stuff I played pretty much every day, the closest I get to group content is joining up with someone for Heroics sometimes. The only thing that's going to stop me logging in are all these changes coming with 7.0 because it's so deeply un-solo friendly no matter how they try to shill it.

How is this not solo friendly? You still get gear plenty good enough for doing solo content but because you're green with envy you want even better gear that only raiders would need because their content is much harder to do?

 

You're entitled, no matter how you want to shill it.

[Rion_Starkiller]

They just want their participation trophy for doing faceroll content. It’s their right as a consumer, I guess.

[TrixxieTriss]

They've been pretty open about the two combat styles limit for a while now. On the hand, it's a bit of a shame, on the other hand it does keep alts more relevant.

 

And as said by other, I'm 100% expecting they'll add a refund token to the CM at some point.

 

And while I agree that’s probably what will happen, it will be a massively missed opportunity to add a great credit sink to the game.

 

As an example : Make it 10 mil to change the first time and 50 mil to change the second. Then cap it at 100 mil each time after that.

[casirabit]

How is this not solo friendly? You still get gear plenty good enough for doing solo content but because you're green with envy you want even better gear that only raiders would need because their content is much harder to do?

 

You're entitled, no matter how you want to shill it.

 

Except from what we have been hearing the gear they are giving solo players is worse than what they already have so not sure how that is solo friendly?

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9979206#post9979206

[TrixxieTriss]

Except from what we have been hearing the gear they are giving solo players is worse than what they already have so not sure how that is solo friendly?

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9979206#post9979206

 

Sadly that 306 gear will become less useful when you hit lvl 76 and your set bonuses will stop working. Only the stats will matter.