Storyline and Open-World Content Difficulty or lack of...

[Oteefo]

Game fine as is.......

 

If you had been playing when it launched you might remember how impossibly hard many routine quests were....

[cheeseforme]

Game fine as is.......

 

If you had been playing when it launched you might remember how impossibly hard many routine quests were....

 

I'm not suggesting impossible, im suggesting a tweak in difficulty by a tad bit. It's boringly easy, sorry.

[Suzsi]

This is how it should be for all games? Oh dear god have mercy :D:D:D:D

 

I never thought i'd actually see or hear anyone say those words hahaha! Incredible! I love it!

 

Yes. All games.

My enjoyment of a game on normal difficulty or higher is not detracted by the fact that said game also has an easy/casual game mode for others with disabilities to enjoy.

[cheeseforme]

Yes. All games.

My enjoyment of a game on normal difficulty or higher is not detracted by the fact that said game also has an easy/casual game mode for others with disabilities to enjoy.

 

Oh please, drop that card. This is not about people with disabilities, stop abusing it, it's disgusting.

[DreadtechSavant]

Clearly this game then is just not for you, nothing else really needs saying.

[cheeseforme]

Clearly this game then is just not for you, nothing else really needs saying.

 

I like the game, the only thing is not being able to get through the storyline cause the quests is boringly easy. But i spam flashpoints for hours at a time every day. I'm an extremely active player.

 

I will continue to play it and avoid storyline like plague. It's as simple as that, The developers clearly had another plan in mind, which was for the game to be somewhat challenging, players just gave bad advice and the developers took it in and ran with the suggestion when they should have insisted. This is why at times it's best to not take community advice. Sometimes that advice isn't as sound as it may initially seem. This is my opinion on the subject nothing more nothing less.

[theUndead]

I'm not suggesting impossible, im suggesting a tweak in difficulty by a tad bit. It's boringly easy, sorry.

 

I have to say this is really a matter of opinion. Easy for you maybe, extremely frustrating to others.

[denavin]

...is boring if i'm being honest and bold. Sometimes the ease of content makes me want to just not do the story because everything is 1 hit kill.The main story isn't even that long, so i find it strange that they would reduce the difficulty THIS MUCH. At least make the boss fights semi-difficult to battle. Nothing less anti-climatic then when i'm anticipating fighting a boss/jedi master and then when i finally reach him, i 2 hit the boss. The difficulty level should be set that to the battle vs the makeb hutt boss. That felt somewhat technical and difficult but not so difficult that you need 500apm to kill him. It was honestly the funnest fight i had and couldn't help but to think " this is what the boss battles should feel like ". The kill truly felt rewarding and reaching him at the end of countless quests made it worth it. I had such a feeling of satisfaction and ecstacy, it gave me the same feeling i had when fighting bosses from KOTOR1 and KOTOR2.

 

Another thing I hate about doing storyline is the fact that 99% of the time you get gear that is irrelevant to your gear level. Why are these things not being updated. I'm sincerely curious. It's the little things like those that really make a big difference for me.

 

I know flashpoints exist and heroics but sometimes i just want to do storyline with the same difficulty or something a tad bit lower than flashpoints. I have my difficulty set to veteran and that is literally no different than story. Surprised more people aren't bothered by these small details.

 

You do know that there is also a MASTER MODE which is harder. Try using that.

 

There is no NEED to screw-up the game for anybody else just because you find the Basic Story Mode too easy.

 

Not EVERYBODY wants or can PLAY on the harder modes. Some of us are slower, older or may be handicapped and unable to play at the harder level. That is why the Veteran and Master Modes were introduced. If you want those harder then by all means knock your lights out. But leave the Basic Story Mode alone it's already too hard in many places for some people to handle with all the new mobs that have been added and changes to Companion AI that have been made already.

 

Now I know this will be hard to understand but this is SWToR.... NOT KOTOR. So comparing them is like saying an orange is an apple because it has seeds and grows on a tree... Even though they are NOTHING alike. You can not compare KOTOR to STWoR, they are totally different in every respect other than they are both about Star Wars.

[DreadtechSavant]

I like the game, the only thing is not being able to get through the storyline cause the quests is boringly easy. But i spam flashpoints for hours at a time every day. I'm an extremely active player.

 

I will continue to play it and avoid storyline like plague. It's as simple as that, The developers clearly had another plan in mind, which was for the game to be somewhat challenging, players just gave bad advice and the developers took it in and ran with the suggestion when they should have insisted. This is why at times it's best to not take community advice. Sometimes that advice isn't as sound as it may initially seem. This is my opinion on the subject nothing more nothing less.

 

As said, clearly this game is not for you. Do you really think BW will change the game because cheeseforme thinks it to easy? Do you really think you and you alone are the only to say this? Has BW changed it after all the other posts about it? BTW still the minorty of players who have posted such things

 

Well then, you have a choice, except it or move on to something else. Why so many indevidual players thinks the game has to evolve around there indevidual wants/needs is really getting old.

[cheeseforme]

As said, clearly this game is not for you. Do you really think BW will change the game because cheeseforme thinks it to easy? Do you really think you and you alone are the only to say this? Has BW changed it after all the other posts about it? BTW still the minorty of players who have posted such things

 

Well then, you have a choice, except it or move on to something else. Why so many indevidual players thinks the game has to evolve around there indevidual wants/needs is really getting old.

 

They made it easier already.... What are you talking about? Whats the argument here? That they can only make content easy but not harder?

[cheeseforme]

As said, clearly this game is not for you. Do you really think BW will change the game because cheeseforme thinks it to easy? Do you really think you and you alone are the only to say this? Has BW changed it after all the other posts about it? BTW still the minorty of players who have posted such things

 

Well then, you have a choice, except it or move on to something else. Why so many indevidual players thinks the game has to evolve around there indevidual wants/needs is really getting old.

 

And yes, its called balance. Happens ALL THE TIME. Game developers are actively tweaking things based on the opinion of the community. It's pretty common knowledge.

[ImmortalLowlife]

I get enough challenges daily by resisting the urge to rip someone's head off. I play video games for the story. While I enjoy a lil PvP or the random vet flashpoint from time to time, 95% of my time playing is going through the stories as a super Jedi/smuggler/Sith/hunter.

[GeneralGyro]

if you are only here for story, and not for any gameplay, there are thousands of movies you can watch

 

i highly recommend lord of the rings

Edited April 16, 2021 by GeneralGyro

[cheeseforme]

If you're just here to get to the next cutscene, you'd be more entertained by interactive movies than something that is actually supposed to reward the player for learning their skills and abilities.

 

 

That's why you dismissed his concerns by basically saying "Oh, don't play story then" resorted to ad hominem attacks, and then attempted to put up a straw man with the achievement BS when that didn't work right?

 

I'm here for story too, but it sure is anticlimactic when a boss goes down in 2-3 hits.

 

 

A compromise? Did they actually discuss the dumbing-down with the players or did they just go ahead with it anyway?

 

I don't agree with this. Most games have difficulty modes, and what connotes Easy is up to the developer. And even the easiest of difficulties makes the player learn the bare essentials of the game and builds up the player's competency to a certain degree. Using only Basic Attack and running around with a companion set to heals, for example, is basically enabling invulnerability mode in the open world. I really can't understand how playstyles like that are enjoyable, and how they even got these dumbed-down styles imposed on everyone. But if someone just wants to watch cutscenes, there are interactive movies that do just that. If they want a Star Wars interactive movie, well they're out of kriffing luck. There are also plenty of recorded playthroughs if one just wants to watch cutscenes. You won't be inserted into the narrative (which is the biggest difference between games and films nowadays) but that's the price you pay for wanting to watch a movie instead of play a game.

 

 

 

I am beginning to wonder how many of these "stupid easy mode" supporters really do care about players that play with impairments and aren't using it to shield their arguments from criticism.

 

Thank the gods of reason! We have a perfectly rational human being in the forums. I was starting to think this community was a lost cause.

 

And you noticed these people are abusing the "im handicapped" card to defend their point. It's disgusting. They'll go that low just to prove a point.

[Rebamcfan]

The only enemy I ever remember one-shotting with one (powerful) attack are weak and standard ones, even now during the more casual-friendly player era. But I suppose it depends from the class you play too? And maybe of how good player you are too?

Sith Juggernaut's Impale is one that comes to mind as an attack that can one shot weak and standard enemies with a single stroke. Strong and elite, let alone champion level enemies require more effort from the player's part to down them unless you wish to be mowed down by them.

[TrixxieTriss]

Wow this thread has turned into a toxic mess. Both sides now going all in without considering other points of view.

 

I will say as someone who has played this game from launch that the devs have made the game unbalanced as far as difficulty. Some parts of the “solo” game are stupidly easy, while other parts are way too hard for some players.

 

The different teams of Devs over the years have swerved from one extreme to the other and the current dev team has inherited a game that has too much variance in required skill for them to easily adjust for the differing skill levels of players.

 

The problem is the dev team is small now and they have to prioritise what they can give us. Do we want them working on old content to make it harder/balanced or do we want new content or bugs fixed or new systems. I think the majority of players would say they’d prefer Bioware to be working on new content that is “bug free” and fix game breaking bugs.

 

And although I agree that the vanilla part of the game is way too easy now, I don’t want Bioware spending time and valuable resources to go back and rework it to find a balance that 100% of players can still get through and 80% of them find it challenging. I honestly think that horse has bolted and un-achievable with the current player base because a large portion of the players have become so use to the simplicity of the game, that increasing the difficulty is problematic for them.

 

I’ll use the latest new content as an example (please don’t jump down my throat as it’s only an example). The SOV story flash point when it was released was much harder than vanilla story or even most of Kotet or kotfe in veteran mode (that’s excluding the bugs, I’m not meaning the bugs). This was obviously done on purpose as the devs seem to be trying to cater to players who liked the game to have more of a challenge. Bugs aside, lots of players have struggled with this new content because they aren’t use to this lvl of difficulty in the game. Where as long term players like myself found the new content more challenging and fun, but still totally playable.

 

I personally didn’t find it hard and I’m not trying to take away from people who did (or had bugs, which I didn’t), but you can read on the forums how difficult this content was for many who have been demanding Bioware Nerf it into the ground to make it easier for “story only” players to get through it.

Sadly, this will ruin it for players who enjoy it as it is (when not bugged). So you can see that Bioware are in a difficult position here. Do they Nerf it and make it stupidly easy or do they keep it as is and have people give up trying to get past it? I’m not going to weigh in on what Bioware should do with this, except to say, that some part of the community is going to be unhappy with what ever decision they make.

 

That’s just one example of one small piece of content that’s out of balance compared to the rest of the game. And that’s only occurring because different dev teams over the years have swerved from one extreme to another to cater for x or y groups they are trying attract to the game. It means there is no consistency for players to get use to from the very start. The vanilla game has become so easy you get some players who never learn 3 quarters of what their abilities do or what a DCD is or when to use it. Many don’t know what a basic rotation is or how to spot game mechanics in harder content or what stats or gear to use and when they get put into harder content it’s game breaking for them.

And you can’t blame these players either because Bioware have evolved the game in such a way that you don’t need to understand rotations to get through 4/5’s of the games story content.

 

Sadly, increasing the difficulty for many players is game breaking for them and would drive them from the game, which the game can least afford to have happen. Losing any players at the moment is detrimental to the whole game and it’s development. There is no “easy” (pun intended) solution here to make everyone happy.

 

The only thing I can suggest to the OP and others like myself who find many parts of the game too easy is for us to find our own ways to make it more fun or challenging. But I would also like to suggest that if Bioware plan to keep releasing harder story content like SOV (which I personally appreciate), that they have some option to reduce the difficulty for those that really need it. Maybe they could add a droid like they did with Shadows or Revan, but instead of making it mandatory for everyone to use in story, it should be an option you select at the start of that content if you need it to be easier. Doing it this way would cater to everyone without taking away anyone’s enjoyment.

 

Personally, I would like to see all of the games content be at least SOV difficulty (but that won’t happen). Bioware could decrease the planet sync stats the higher you are above the planet/area to make it more challenging. They could then have an option to have two companions active in the game for those players who need some help clearing content. Which means they could keep making challenging content without adding my suggested droid feature because people would be able to activate a second companion if they need it (just a suggestion).

 

I think we need to accept the game is old now and unbalanced in both player skills and content difficulty. Attacking each other on the forums isn’t helpful for anyone.

[GeneralGyro]

Wow this thread has turned into a toxic mess. Both sides now going all in without considering other points of view.

 

I will say as someone who has played this game from launch that the devs have made the game unbalanced as far as difficulty. Some parts of the “solo” game are stupidly easy, while other parts are way too hard for some players.

 

The different teams of Devs over the years have swerved from one extreme to the other and the current dev team has inherited a game that has too much variance in required skill for them to easily adjust for the differing skill levels of players.

 

The problem is the dev team is small now and they have to prioritise what they can give us. Do we want them working on old content to make it harder/balanced or do we want new content or bugs fixed or new systems. I think the majority of players would say they’d prefer Bioware to be working on new content that is “bug free” and fix game breaking bugs.

 

And although I agree that the vanilla part of the game is way too easy now, I don’t want Bioware spending time and valuable resources to go back and rework it to find a balance that 100% of players can still get through and 80% of them find it challenging. I honestly think that horse has bolted and un-achievable with the current player base because a large portion of the players have become so use to the simplicity of the game, that increasing the difficulty is problematic for them.

 

I’ll use the latest new content as an example (please don’t jump down my throat as it’s only an example). The SOV story flash point when it was released was much harder than vanilla story or even most of Kotet or kotfe in veteran mode (that’s excluding the bugs, I’m not meaning the bugs). This was obviously done on purpose as the devs seem to be trying to cater to players who liked the game to have more of a challenge. Bugs aside, lots of players have struggled with this new content because they aren’t use to this lvl of difficulty in the game. Where as long term players like myself found the new content more challenging and fun, but still totally playable.

 

I personally didn’t find it hard and I’m not trying to take away from people who did (or had bugs, which I didn’t), but you can read on the forums how difficult this content was for many who have been demanding Bioware Nerf it into the ground to make it easier for “story only” players to get through it.

Sadly, this will ruin it for players who enjoy it as it is (when not bugged). So you can see that Bioware are in a difficult position here. Do they Nerf it and make it stupidly easy or do they keep it as is and have people give up trying to get past it? I’m not going to weigh in on what Bioware should do with this, except to say, that some part of the community is going to be unhappy with what ever decision they make.

 

That’s just one example of one small piece of content that’s out of balance compared to the rest of the game. And that’s only occurring because different dev teams over the years have swerved from one extreme to another to cater for x or y groups they are trying attract to the game. It means there is no consistency for players to get use to from the very start. The vanilla game has become so easy you get some players who never learn 3 quarters of what their abilities do or what a DCD is or when to use it. Many don’t know what a basic rotation is or how to spot game mechanics in harder content or what stats or gear to use and when they get put into harder content it’s game breaking for them.

And you can’t blame these players either because Bioware have evolved the game in such a way that you don’t need to understand rotations to get through 4/5’s of the games story content.

 

Sadly, increasing the difficulty for many players is game breaking for them and would drive them from the game, which the game can least afford to have happen. Losing any players at the moment is detrimental to the whole game and it’s development. There is no “easy” (pun intended) solution here to make everyone happy.

 

The only thing I can suggest to the OP and others like myself who find many parts of the game too easy is for us to find our own ways to make it more fun or challenging. But I would also like to suggest that if Bioware plan to keep releasing harder story content like SOV (which I personally appreciate), that they have some option to reduce the difficulty for those that really need it. Maybe they could add a droid like they did with Shadows or Revan, but instead of making it mandatory for everyone to use in story, it should be an option you select at the start of that content if you need it to be easier. Doing it this way would cater to everyone without taking away anyone’s enjoyment.

 

Personally, I would like to see all of the games content be at least SOV difficulty (but that won’t happen). Bioware could decrease the planet sync stats the higher you are above the planet/area to make it more challenging. They could then have an option to have two companions active in the game for those players who need some help clearing content. Which means they could keep making challenging content without adding my suggested droid feature because people would be able to activate a second companion if they need it (just a suggestion).

 

I think we need to accept the game is old now and unbalanced in both player skills and content difficulty. Attacking each other on the forums isn’t helpful for anyone.

 

sorry but, the 1-50 stories are the biggest draw this game has. a decade since they came out they are still the most compelling, the best this game has to offer. new stuff is sub par and below the barrier of what can be. them going back and updating the cutscenes is a good start. now to make the gameplay during that story compelling again

[Nee-Elder]

Both sides now going all in without considering other points of view.

 

Sorry Trixx , but that ^ isn't an accurate representation of the thread at all. So, you either didn't read all 6 pages or you saw what you wanted to see and decided to over-generalize to better suit the rest of your paragraphs.

 

Nuance & context still matter.

 

Case-in-point: i actually AGREE with the OP's (and apparently yours) point of view. (that Class stories are too easy and therefore often feel "anticlamatic" ) . Therefore, if someone agrees with the point of view, how then can that same someone be accused of "going al in without considering" the same point of view already stated as being agreed with?

 

---

I think we need to accept the game is old now and unbalanced in both player skills and content difficulty. .

 

Agreed. Let me say that again: i AGREE with you.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that the OP refuses to acknowledge there's existing *challenging* content (with story) that he/she has yet to clear (or even attempt) .

 

Consequently, if the OP (or any fringe vocal minority) seeks greater challenge, but won't even consider trying ANY of the listed options SWTOR offers to possibly maybe satisfy that supposed 'challenge need' , then who's fault is it?

 

Certainly not BioWare's.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Nee-Elder

[Mongorr]

Over three chapters I am presented with a compelling story building up to a final fight with my nemesis. Then I kill him in a very short time with a couple of basic skills. It is anti-climactic and does a disservice to the story imho.

[TrixxieTriss]

sorry but, the 1-50 stories are the biggest draw this game has. a decade since they came out they are still the most compelling, the best this game has to offer. new stuff is sub par and below the barrier of what can be. them going back and updating the cutscenes is a good start. now to make the gameplay during that story compelling again

 

And what about all the players they lose by making it harder again?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I agree the 1-50 stories are some of the best in the game and are too easy for me and many people. But the game is old now and they have limited resources. Plus Bioware have this habit of making everything a rush to get to their latest content, hence why lvling is so fast and easy.

 

What you need to ask is who is their demographic and who are they developing the game for these days.

If it’s new players, then the whole game should probably be rebalanced from scratch and possibly rebuilt on a new engine (which will never happen).

But if it’s old players or long term players, we’ve all played the vanilla content to death and the resources would be better spent making new content.

 

The crux of the issue is $$ and the vast majority of the players have become so use to how easy the game is, that there would be a mass exodus of players if Bioware increased the difficulty for them. From a Business perspective, that’s the last thing Bioware would want to do. So they’ve been catering to the lowest skill denominator during parts of the games development. It’s why pvp is such a shambles and why some players are having difficulty with the new story flash point,

 

I’m not suggesting the game shouldn’t be harder, it should be. But we are past the time where Bioware can take the risk to increase the wholesale difficulty across the game. It would drive too many players away from the game and there aren’t enough as it is. Not only that, but it would take away from developing new content that the current player base desperately needs.

[Stradlin]

Storyline content prolly makes something like 90% of gameplay for 90% of people. Talking about how easy it is is kinda valid. It is also a very common complaint.

 

In fact, it is kinda misleading to speak of it as easy. Doing so puts core gameplay of TOR in same basket with stuff like " this super mario galaxies level is so easy!". That's very unfair towards the latter and misleading towards the former: Core gameplay of TOR isn't even present on some easy-moderate-hard axis. Play some extremely easy platformer without paying any attention and you gonna have real bad time! You fall to pits, get defeated by enemies.. In TOR, dififculty of combat is set so low that you start failing elsewhere long before you start getting beaten up by sith lords and jedis masters and stuff. Long before that, you start failing in finding location of next mission. You fail to initiate dialogue. You fail to enter your password and security key when logging in. All of these things are much more difficult than battles during core gameplay. Any sort of dififculty, easy or otherwise ,just isn't present as a game mechanic during core gameplay.

 

I'm not sure if anybody is asking or expecting core gameplay to be -difficult-. People are asking for it not to be well beyond easy. It is extremely difficult to learn to play your class during class story. Go through default experience (class story -> revan expansion->kotfe etc) and you've not once had the opportunity to see most of your class mechanics in action.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Stradlin

[Nee-Elder]

Over three chapters I am presented with a compelling story building up to a final fight with my nemesis. Then I kill him in a very short time with a couple of basic skills. It is anti-climactic and does a disservice to the story imho.

 

Agreed.

 

So what's the solution? How do you balance all Class stories in a 10-year-old game to be just exactly easy enough for the majority playerbase , who pay most of the bills, but exactly challenging enough for the more "hardcore" players who dictate most of the press & polls?

 

If you can answer that, realistically, then you deserve a position designing every MMO in history.

 

Otherwise, you could consider BioWare's solution that they tried with KOTFE/KOTET chapters: Offer 3 different combat challenge levels (story, veteran, master) and let the players choose.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Nee-Elder

[Hadsil]

Whatever easy mode it is I enjoy it. I find strategy important. Interrupts and defenses matter. It has become easier for me because I played so long, but I remember first playing not knowing what would be happening. There are a number of tough fights I had trouble with on first play through I know better how to do it. I like it when the mobs go down so fast. There are so many what's boring is having to go through them to get to where the adventure scene is. Sometimes I don't bother doing it again to go back to the quest giver. I'll go to my stronghold, then ship, then planet side, and take the taxi again. I suppose I prefer the story more than the fights, but having experienced the fustercluck that is Spirit of Vengeance now and what the Eternal Throne Voss Walker battle used to be, I'll take this "easy mode" anytime. That's where I find the fun. Edited April 16, 2021 by Hadsil

[Xo-Lara]

 

The only thing I can suggest to the OP and others like myself who find many parts of the game too easy is for us to find our own ways to make it more fun or challenging. But I would also like to suggest that if Bioware plan to keep releasing harder story content like SOV (which I personally appreciate), that they have some option to reduce the difficulty for those that really need it. Maybe they could add a droid like they did with Shadows or Revan, but instead of making it mandatory for everyone to use in story, it should be an option you select at the start of that content if you need it to be easier. Doing it this way would cater to everyone without taking away anyone’s enjoyment.

 

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore because I figured that would just encourage it to degenerate, but this is a really good mission suggestion. I'm not going to lie, I would prefer not to walk into harder content without warning only to find out after the fact that I need to opt in to the bot just to get through it. (why wasn't that darmanda heroic in the slugfall cantina not marked as a heroic? I would have dumped the mission from the beginning had I know that. >.>) But that is a preferable system to not having a way for more players to enjoy the game.

 

The one thing I will say I'm not in favor of is making the open world harder. In addition to not wanting to stop every 3 meters to fight more ridiculously strong standard mobs, I like being able to walk around and appreciate the scenery. I like game environmental art so sometimes I will walk up to a wall just to see how the devs put it together. Examining details, especially ceiling ones, would be dang near impossible if I'm getting ambushed every few minutes and have to spend more time killing the mobs than I get to look at things.

 

Not to mention it is exhausting to travel through the world by speeder that way. Even when the mobs are easy to kill, I get really tired of having to constantly stop because I can't sneak around enough of the mobs and they will knock me off my speeder if I try to run past. (Looking at you Oricon... Starting to remember why I normally skip it. I'm also missing my wide forcequake AOE... this is why I mostly play my sage >.<)

[GeneralGyro]

And what about all the players they lose by making it harder again?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I agree the 1-50 stories are some of the best in the game and are too easy for me and many people. But the game is old now and they have limited resources. Plus Bioware have this habit of making everything a rush to get to their latest content, hence why lvling is so fast and easy.

 

What you need to ask is who is their demographic and who are they developing the game for these days.

If it’s new players, then the whole game should probably be rebalanced from scratch and possibly rebuilt on a new engine (which will never happen).

But if it’s old players or long term players, we’ve all played the vanilla content to death and the resources would be better spent making new content.

 

The crux of the issue is $$ and the vast majority of the players have become so use to how easy the game is, that there would be a mass exodus of players if Bioware increased the difficulty for them. From a Business perspective, that’s the last thing Bioware would want to do. So they’ve been catering to the lowest skill denominator during parts of the games development. It’s why pvp is such a shambles and why some players are having difficulty with the new story flash point,

 

I’m not suggesting the game shouldn’t be harder, it should be. But we are past the time where Bioware can take the risk to increase the wholesale difficulty across the game. It would drive too many players away from the game and there aren’t enough as it is. Not only that, but it would take away from developing new content that the current player base desperately needs.

 

theres this joke i see a lot that says if you know how to interrupt, you're better than 98% of players in swtor