Storyline and Open-World Content Difficulty or lack of...

[xordevoreaux]

You miss my points. I’m not suggesting they increase current difficulties, I’m asking they stop nerfing content when some people find it too hard and return recent SOV nerfs back the way they were. But at the same time add in a 2nd companion for people to use it the need it.

 

Then moving forward, balance content around one companion being active. So if that content is too challenging, they can activate the second companion to help them get through.

 

Creating an endless cycle of fixes and counter-fixes, just like PvP vs. PvE.

 

The devs balance an ability in PvE, and suddenly there's a new flavor of the month class in PvP, and everyone in the previous flavor of the month class comes screaming out onto the forums demanding the situation that brought about the new FOTM be reversed or nerfed.

 

The devs refuse to separate the stat and ability foundations between PvE and PvP. I absolutely see no reason to trust the devs to implement a stable, long-term, two-track difficulty system in this game. They're going to piss off one group of players or another, it's just a matter of waiting to see which crowd gets the short end of the stick.

Edited May 3, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[TrixxieTriss]

Creating an endless cycle of fixes and counter-fixes, just like PvP vs. PvE.

 

The devs balance an ability in PvE, and suddenly there's a new flavor of the month class in PvP, and everyone in the previous flavor of the month class comes screaming out onto the forums demanding the situation that brought about the new FOTM be reversed or nerfed.

 

The devs refuse to separate the stat and ability foundations between PvE and PvP. I absolutely see no reason to trust the devs to implement a stable, long-term, two-track difficulty system in this game. They're going to piss off one group of players or another, it's just a matter of waiting to see which crowd gets the short end of the stick.

 

This has nothing to do with pvp. All I’m saying is for them to stop making changes and at the same time build in a mechanism for future content so that players can choose their own difficulty.

[Ardrossan]

The answer is make the content challenging and add a second companion option that can make it an easy walk in the park for the lowest skill. Then it’s up to the players to decide their own difficulty.

 

I agree with this, this is a good idea, and it's much less of a suspension of disbelief to have two comps out for certain missions than the JesusBot. Besides, they obviously CAN do it.

 

To me the question is HOW they ramp up difficulty. I don't really enjoy vet mode on kotfe. It's not more difficult, it's more tedious. SOV and Meksha are a little better but not great.

 

I replayed the solo mode of Boarding Party yesterday on a lvl 37 BH and doing the bonus boss (engineer and two droids), I died three times before i figured out how to avoid it. It's been awhile since i've done that boss, but it was interesting to me because it was an enjoyable difficulty, not a damn slog. It was fun to figure out how to beat it, keep the engineer alive and kite the droids, avoid the rage timer.

 

That should be the model for how difficulty works: you can be killed if you aren't paying attention. In 2.0 I vividly remember playing an Agent for the first time and dying repeatedly in Hutta during the mission where you're in the factory sabotaging something and get ambushed by a couple droids. At that time, the droids hit hard and Kaliyo hadn't joined the party yet, so it was really easy to die. Now, of course, it is quite difficult to die at any point in the starter planets unless you take on the champ.

 

If Xor wants the game to stay as an interactive movie, that's fine. But players should not have to strip naked and put their comps on passive just to enjoy a facsimile of difficult content otherwise any change to the status quo will be DOOMed. increase enemy mob dps and give players the option to use a second comp that they have limited control over. Make the starter planets an actual learning experience to use their class properly, the way they were designed to be, not just faceroll content.

[xordevoreaux]

This has nothing to do with pvp. All I’m saying is for them to stop making changes and at the same time build in a mechanism for future content so that players can choose their own difficulty.

 

Forever failing to implement a separation between PvP and PvE is exactly the type of failure that will occur when there's spillover between hard and easy modes, and just like PvE affecting PvP and vice-versa, endless adjustments / kludges to hard mode will affect easy mode.

 

This will get screwed up. Royally. Permanently. Painfully.

 

I've nothing more to add at this point. There's no other way to explain it to make it clearer.

Edited May 3, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[TrixxieTriss]

Forever failing to implement a separation between PvP and PvE is exactly the type of failure that will occur when there's spillover between hard and easy modes, and just like PvE affecting PvP and vice-versa, endless adjustments / kludges to hard mode will affect easy mode.

 

This will get screwed up. Royally. Permanently. Painfully.

 

I've nothing more to add to this point. There's no other way to explain it to make it clearer.

 

Sigh. I’m on your side or want to be, but you are making it really difficult for me to be polite in my responses. I agree that pvp and pve utilities/skill tree should have always been seperate. But what I’m suggesting has nothing to do with pvp vs pve. And you are turning this discussion in a direction that’s not relevant to my points and will only muddle the discussion.

[Primeconvoy]

My wife and I have, for years, played world of warcraft together, and I played SWTOR on the side. That was until the Shadowlands expac came out. The content within that game has become so laborious and painful that I was able to convince my wife to pick up SWTOR. The content, gear acquisition, crew skills, difficulty and story now have her hooked! In under a month she has gained her legendary status and is gleefully leveling new alts and playing through the Knights story arc. Needless to say, the game is a winner with her.

 

This game may not be for everyone, but just because it's not for you does not mean it's a terrible game. This game just happens to have a wider variety of skill levels. Too often players are looking for a challenge, and that leaves the less skilled players behind, and ultimately abandoning a game. For me, the game has to serve as an escape from the real world, not yet another challenge. For me and my wife, it's an experience similar to being in a story, like West World. Imagine being immersed in a fantasy world and knowing you can do whatever you want and not have to worry about dying, is that a terrible thing?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Primeconvoy

[Hadsil]

Dude, you should have had the comp on heals the whole time, Here we’re all thinking your troubles were skill or gear. When it was having your comp on the wrong setting. LOL.

 

Dps sage/Sorc can’t off heal their comps enough these days to warrant running them as tanks in anything but simple content. If you doubt what I’m saying, try having them tank other flash points or uprisings and you will see you can’t keep them alive.

 

No. Companion is on Heal with my Jedi Knight the whole time. I still die at the Final Boss every time all the time. With my Consular I was getting through all the combats with Companion on Tank. The only thing putting him on Heal did was he didn't die as often. I still get killed on the Final Boss every time, all the time, with the Companion on Heal.

[DarkestMicheal]

Sigh. I’m on your side or want to be, but you are making it really difficult for me to be polite in my responses. I agree that pvp and pve utilities/skill tree should have always been seperate. But what I’m suggesting has nothing to do with pvp vs pve. And you are turning this discussion in a direction that’s not relevant to my points and will only muddle the discussion.

 

I still think the idea of having instanced content that has a scaling level, that can be set by the player is a valid one. Once it's behind that wall, it won't affect anyone else, and you can have it easy, harder, or extra hard.

[TrixxieTriss]

I still think the idea of having instanced content that has a scaling level, that can be set by the player is a valid one. Once it's behind that wall, it won't affect anyone else, and you can have it easy, harder, or extra hard.

 

That’s also a method we already have setup in the game for kotet and kofte. The issue is BioWare have decided to make the new content into group flash points as well as story, so they can’t do chapter difficulty. The only other mechanism already in the game is to offer a secondary companion for harder content.

[Hadsil]

They'd cater to both about as well as they simultaneously cater to PvE and PvP. Adjusting PvE breaks PvP and vice versa because they rely on the exact same stat and ability foundations.

 

That's not a red herring. Without a profoundly different approach between newbie-make-it-easy-for-me-please and mind-wrenchingly complicated / wildly insane mechanics for the pros, you'll wind up with both camps bellyaching that because A got this, B broke that, just like PvE and PvP.

 

Developing a two-track system, even if the devs ever got motivated to do so, has one profound pitfall, and it's all about human nature.

 

The greater the cliff of difficulty between newbie and pro, the harder to convert newbies into pros.

Newbies get comfortable with what's easy, then they hit the switch / slider / whatever to try pro mode, suddenly experience stupid-hard content, and say no way.

 

So over time, you'll get more newbies, fewer pros, and then there go the pros either rage-quitting or selfishly screaming on the forums to eliminate easy mode because not enough people are playing with them on hard mode.

 

Not a win-win situation.

 

Yet they managed to have different level modes for various Flashpoints - Story/Veteran/Master. Math statistics are simply variables. They can plug in the numbers needed depending on mode. On Story Mode a boss may have 10,000 hit points and his Attack does 1,000 damage, Veteran Mode he has 50,000 hit points and his attack does 10,000 damage, Master Mode he has 100,000 hit points and his attack does 25,000 damage. There's nothing extra to program. They can be fancy and say a Boss only has a particular power if Mode = Master. For those who know programming scaling difficulty isn't a problem for a game like this. It's math, not Chess.

[xordevoreaux]

Yet they managed to have different level modes for various Flashpoints - Story/Veteran/Master. Math statistics are simply variables. They can plug in the numbers needed depending on mode. On Story Mode a boss may have 10,000 hit points and his Attack does 1,000 damage, Veteran Mode he has 50,000 hit points and his attack does 10,000 damage, Master Mode he has 100,000 hit points and his attack does 25,000 damage. There's nothing extra to program. They can be fancy and say a Boss only has a particular power if Mode = Master. For those who know programming scaling difficulty isn't a problem for a game like this. It's math, not Chess.

 

Please observe the title of this thread, in that it includes the topic: "Open-World Content Difficulty"

 

Open-world content means every last single mob in the game becomes harder. Not just mobs tucked away in flashpoints and operations.

 

That means scaling mobs to be harder in open areas puts a mix of people in contact with mobs tuned for different player style modes:

 

1. Players A and B are both fighting in open world areas on a planet.

2. Player A is bored so switches to hard mode, which as you describe above, would increase the mob's stats.

3. Player B, walking past Player A's fight, is a casual or a newbie.

4. Player B gets caught in a mob's AoE that Player A is currently fighting.

5. Player B, not prepared to fight a hard-mode mob, suddenly is.

 

Imagine the griefing that could occur if some jerk decides he'll flip to hard mode in the middle of a bunch of casuals.

 

No one but no one has done a decent job of thinking through the repercussions of what they're asking for in this thread.

Edited May 3, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[DarkestMicheal]

Please observe the title of this thread, in that it includes the topic: "Open-World Content Difficulty"

 

Open-world content means every last single mob in the game becomes harder. Not just mobs tucked away in flashpoints and operations.

 

That means scaling mobs to be harder in open areas puts a mix of people in contact with mobs tuned for different player style modes:

 

1. Players A and B are both fighting in open world areas on a planet.

2. Player A is bored so switches to hard mode, which as you describe above, would increase the mob's stats.

3. Player B, walking past Player A's fight, is a casual or a newbie.

4. Player B gets caught in a mob's AoE that Player A is currently fighting.

5. Player B, not prepared to fight a hard-mode mob, suddenly is.

 

Imagine the griefing that could occur if some jerk decides he'll flip to hard mode in the middle of a bunch of casuals.

 

No one but no one has done a decent job of thinking through the repercussions of what they're asking for in this thread.

 

That's a valid point, I was talking about instanced content, think I mentally blocked out the open world. oops

I don't think they should touch open world, as you say, it will be abused. But they should look at instanced content

[Tofu_Shark]

Put your companion to passive, that's what I do when doing story until kotfe.

This is not a viable solution. It breaks immersion and throws out an important element of the game.

 

 

Dumbed-down mechanics isn't driving players away, and you know it. If dumbed-down mechanics was truly problematic, we'd have the immediate (and it was immediate) mass exodus we saw in SWG after the overhaul to combat. What everyone's screaming about is the lack of new end-game content.

 

Bioware has to balance the attrition of existing players rage-quitting over their finicky distaste for one element of the game or another against attracting new players. New players, having to contend with a new interface, combat mechanics, everything going on, don't need artificial barriers to enjoyment like struggling with complicated combat mechanics or new and overwhelmingly boring slog fests because old timers on the forums are jaded with the game's existing framework.

I guess those new players shouldn't buy games outside of their usual genres either, as they will introduce new interfaces, combat mechanics, and more. Let's just cater to their every whim. If you drive a car with an automatic transmission and then decide you're going to learn how to ride a motorcycle, are you going to complain about having to learn how to work a manual transmission, how to balance yourself, how you don't have a comfy, quiet cabin, the lack of cargo space; are you going to complain about the difference in steering, handling, and braking compared to a car; are you going to complain about being exposed to the elements and having to wear different clothing to protect yourself in case of a crash, the maneuvers you can perform to protect yourself in the event of a crash? What are you going to do, complain to the manufacturer to make motorcycles more car-like? No, you either adapt to the changes or you don't ride a motorcycle. (You can opt to not wear protective clothing, but you do that at your own peril and if something happens, you'll wish you hadn't forgone it.)

 

Here's an even better analogy: fly a plane. Are you going to complain about the completely thorough pilot's licensing process, how many hours of flight are required to be licensed, conducting pre-flight checks, charting flight plans, learning the NATO phonetic alphabet and all the jargon associated with flight, all the instruments and interfaces you have to learn to use and read, the conditions you have to fly through, how to react to bad flight situations, the costs of flying; the risks, etc. etc. etc.? No, because flight isn't going to change for anyone. You either adapt to the differences or don't learn to fly.

 

I have never seen anyone new to FPSs ever complain that they're too different from the types of games they usually play and should be changed to meet their demands because they're comfortable with a different genre. I've never seen PC players complain console games should be changed to meet their demands because they're comfortable with PC games (as much as those differences suck). Players need to be able to adapt to the new circumstances they find themselves in. There should not be changes to fundamental elements just because they whined. They must adapt to the new environment in some way, shape, or form.

 

Hey look at that, games teaching life lessons! Of course in real life, there are exceptions such as hostile and unnecessarily dangerous work environments but I digress.

 

 

Unless the devs supply the flashpoint war bot available during story mode, any companion, even Shae Vizla, will die during whatever content the pros deem suitably challenging enough for them. It's like asking for open-world nightmare content everywhere, and oh, by the way newbie, by the way casual, good luck there palling around with T-7.

 

Then what? There the player is, dead companion at his feet and all alone to face content tuned to be challenging to pros. The newbie gets interrupted / damaged so fast that resurrecting the companion before the player dies himself isn't possible. The mob subsequently wipes the floor with the player, and then the player quits because it's too hard.

 

You can't rely on just the companion to solve the problem, and putting any newbie in a hard environment with the only means to compensate for that difficulty being external (such a companion) will result in failure. Then you're looking at stat bolstering newbies, who'll then get a very rude shock if they ever play anything but newbie / casual mode.

 

Any change the devs make in reaction to this thread will be hostile to both casuals and newbies.

This is an overly dramatic response. No one is asking for that kind of difficulty. Players just want to be challenged. They don't want everything to be a curbstomp.

 

This is why games gradually teach you new elements: so you understand them for the current challenge and then the later ones, and obviously if you don't get it, you will have a hard time getting past the first test of this knowledge. And you rightfully, shouldn't be able to progress further until you do.

 

 

Here I am trying to find a solution that can accommodate nearly everyone and all you seem to care about is accommodating the lowest skilled players at the expense of everyone else’s enjoyment.

Why does the game have to keep lowering its skill requirement to the absolute lowest denominator. That does not encourage people to try to get better, it just lowers everyone’s skills or people get bored and leave.

I’m not a dev or coder, but I would think that if they can add a bot droid for Revan and add Krovos for the latest content, then they can program the 2nd companion to not die if that’s what it really takes for some people to get through content.

The FP droid is nigh unkillable. It takes an entire room full of mobs to take it down, if you can aggro them fast enough. It just keeps spamming self-heal until it recovers enough to continue fighting. It's sufficient enough for escorting the unskilled or the willfully ignorant through an encounter. The devs can just give them that again.

 

 

Obviously, there are plenty of people in this thread who'd just as soon --- for the sake of their own enjoyment --- see every newbie drop dead and quit and hand the game over to just the pros, because only the pros enjoying themselves count.

You are painting with a very broad brush. Not every skilled player feels that way, and I think you know that.

 

 

Creating an endless cycle of fixes and counter-fixes, just like PvP vs. PvE.

 

The devs balance an ability in PvE, and suddenly there's a new flavor of the month class in PvP, and everyone in the previous flavor of the month class comes screaming out onto the forums demanding the situation that brought about the new FOTM be reversed or nerfed.

 

The devs refuse to separate the stat and ability foundations between PvE and PvP. I absolutely see no reason to trust the devs to implement a stable, long-term, two-track difficulty system in this game. They're going to piss off one group of players or another, it's just a matter of waiting to see which crowd gets the short end of the stick.

PvE balance should always be prioritized because nearly everyone will play PvE, not everyone PvPs. However, PvP really should be separate from PvE. We've seen many changes over the years to favor the PvP experience that have left PvE players with a sour taste in their mouths, such the removal of stances and certain class-defining abilities being replaced with less iconic, less visually appealing ones.

 

 

My wife and I have, for years, played world of warcraft together, and I played SWTOR on the side. That was until the Shadowlands expac came out. The content within that game has become so laborious and painful that I was able to convince my wife to pick up SWTOR. The content, gear acquisition, crew skills, difficulty and story now have her hooked! In under a month she has gained her legendary status and is gleefully leveling new alts and playing through the Knights story arc. Needless to say, the game is a winner with her.

 

This game may not be for everyone, but just because it's not for you does not mean it's a terrible game. This game just happens to have a wider variety of skill levels. Too often players are looking for a challenge, and that leaves the less skilled players behind, and ultimately abandoning a game. For me, the game has to serve as an escape from the real world, not yet another challenge. For me and my wife, it's an experience similar to being in a story, like West World. Imagine being immersed in a fantasy world and knowing you can do whatever you want and not have to worry about dying, is that a terrible thing?

This assumes all players want the same things out of their gaming experiences, they don't.

 

 

That’s also a method we already have setup in the game for kotet and kofte. The issue is BioWare have decided to make the new content into group flash points as well as story, so they can’t do chapter difficulty. The only other mechanism already in the game is to offer a secondary companion for harder content.

Well, they can't really, because that would make all new story content exclusively single player, and they're not stupid enough to go down that route again...I hope.

 

 

Yet they managed to have different level modes for various Flashpoints - Story/Veteran/Master. Math statistics are simply variables. They can plug in the numbers needed depending on mode. On Story Mode a boss may have 10,000 hit points and his Attack does 1,000 damage, Veteran Mode he has 50,000 hit points and his attack does 10,000 damage, Master Mode he has 100,000 hit points and his attack does 25,000 damage. There's nothing extra to program. They can be fancy and say a Boss only has a particular power if Mode = Master. For those who know programming scaling difficulty isn't a problem for a game like this. It's math, not Chess.

Flashpoints are instances, not open world. There's no easy way to balance open world content for skilled and unskilled players at the same time. The only way I see them doing this is creating a separate Hard Mode instance, if that's even possible, or a server, and a new server is probably not financially feasible.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Tofu_Shark

[LeoAugustina]

No. Companion is on Heal with my Jedi Knight the whole time. I still die at the Final Boss every time all the time. With my Consular I was getting through all the combats with Companion on Tank. The only thing putting him on Heal did was he didn't die as often. I still get killed on the Final Boss every time, all the time, with the Companion on Heal.

 

After nerf or before?

Because if its after and you still die at the FinalBoss every time I am calling you a liar (or maybe you forget heal partner). I did it myself with my knight right now with 238 ilvl, everything I have done is using Heroic Moment with no more defensive abilities and targeting snipers at first. I did it easely.

Edited May 3, 2021 by LeoAugustina

[Hadsil]

Please observe the title of this thread, in that it includes the topic: "Open-World Content Difficulty"

 

Open-world content means every last single mob in the game becomes harder. Not just mobs tucked away in flashpoints and operations.

 

That means scaling mobs to be harder in open areas puts a mix of people in contact with mobs tuned for different player style modes:

 

1. Players A and B are both fighting in open world areas on a planet.

2. Player A is bored so switches to hard mode, which as you describe above, would increase the mob's stats.

3. Player B, walking past Player A's fight, is a casual or a newbie.

4. Player B gets caught in a mob's AoE that Player A is currently fighting.

5. Player B, not prepared to fight a hard-mode mob, suddenly is.

 

Imagine the griefing that could occur if some jerk decides he'll flip to hard mode in the middle of a bunch of casuals.

 

No one but no one has done a decent job of thinking through the repercussions of what they're asking for in this thread.

 

When you are doing your Class and Planet stories you have your own instance of playing. That is what can be made to scale to your preferred level of difficulty.

[robertthebard]

This is not a viable solution. It breaks immersion and throws out an important element of the game.

 

 

 

I guess those new players shouldn't buy games outside of their usual genres either, as they will introduce new interfaces, combat mechanics, and more. Let's just cater to their every whim. If you drive a car with an automatic transmission and then decide you're going to learn how to ride a motorcycle, are you going to complain about having to learn how to work a manual transmission, how to balance yourself, how you don't have a comfy, quiet cabin, the lack of cargo space; are you going to complain about the difference in steering, handling, and braking compared to a car; are you going to complain about being exposed to the elements and having to wear different clothing to protect yourself in case of a crash, the maneuvers you can perform to protect yourself in the event of a crash? What are you going to do, complain to the manufacturer to make motorcycles more car-like? No, you either adapt to the changes or you don't ride a motorcycle. (You can opt to not wear protective clothing, but you do that at your own peril and if something happens, you'll wish you hadn't forgone it.)

.

 

Well, we've certainly gone to some absurd arguments here, yes? But here's my question, why should they cater to you? Is your money somehow more valuable than the new player's money? What about established players that aren't as adept at the game? You bring this up a lot, all while insisting they cater to your whims. There must be some reason you believe that you're worthy of having your whims fulfilled, yes?

 

Here's the problem: swtor is a story driven MMO. Even the FPs and Ops have story elements tied to them, and some even complete planetary arcs, Oricon, for example. This is what new players will be expecting, not a heavy combat focused game. You know, those new players that don't have all the datacrons on their character as soon as they hit the opening cutscene, like we do. Just like we had the game built for us back then, new players need to have it accessible too. You see, your money, or mine, isn't worth more than their money is. We're all worth the same amount. I watched a Legion of 250 individual accounts leave Aion for RoM because of OW PVP, in a game that was advertised as PvPvE. Why? It was too hard to level up, for them. I don't know anyone that quit a game because it was too easy.

[TrixxieTriss]

Please observe the title of this thread, in that it includes the topic: "Open-World Content Difficulty"

 

Open-world content means every last single mob in the game becomes harder. Not just mobs tucked away in flashpoints and operations.

 

That means scaling mobs to be harder in open areas puts a mix of people in contact with mobs tuned for different player style modes:

 

1. Players A and B are both fighting in open world areas on a planet.

2. Player A is bored so switches to hard mode, which as you describe above, would increase the mob's stats.

3. Player B, walking past Player A's fight, is a casual or a newbie.

4. Player B gets caught in a mob's AoE that Player A is currently fighting.

5. Player B, not prepared to fight a hard-mode mob, suddenly is.

 

Imagine the griefing that could occur if some jerk decides he'll flip to hard mode in the middle of a bunch of casuals.

 

No one but no one has done a decent job of thinking through the repercussions of what they're asking for in this thread.

 

It also says story line in the title, which, from my perspective, includes the main story flash points and instances since vanilla.

 

It’s too late in the game’s life to go fooling around with the vanilla part of the game, except to fix bugs. All my points have been about current (newish) content and future development. I think that might be where we go our wires crossed. I’m not suggesting they go back and make the vanilla retroactively harder because it would be a big job I’d rather have new content over making 9 year content harder again.

Edited May 4, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

When you are doing your Class and Planet stories you have your own instance of playing. That is what can be made to scale to your preferred level of difficulty.

 

That’s not realistic. The game is an MMO not a solo playing RPG.

[Suzsi]

It also says story line in the title, which, from my perspective, includes the main story flash points and instances since vanilla.

 

It’s too late in the game’s life to go fooling around with the vanilla part of the game, except to fix bugs. All my points have been about current (newish) content and future development. I think that might be where we go our wires crossed. I’m not suggesting they go back and make the vanilla retroactively harder because it would be a big job I’d rather have new content over making 9 year content harder again.

 

Unfortunately some of us play that 9yr old content daily. Currently have 3+ toons in class stories, a few in SoR, a few in KotFE etc.

 

It's hard because I wouldn't hate a bit of a challenge doing that stuff, but I've friends who are happy to faceroll it just to get to the next cutscene etc. For them I usually advocate for leaving it be.

 

I find KotFE veteran is a little tooo hard, especially some parts for first runs on lower level, under geared toons. Big gap between normal and veteran in difficulty. And replaying flashpoints on veteran for me looses its interest because you don't get the story with it (and generally need a group).

 

Some of the heroics feel nicely balanced, where you have to pay attention and use your skills or end up flattened, but not so hard as to get stuck.

 

It's pretty hard though to find that balance though I think when everyones on such different skill levels. SoV has kinda prooved that. Some are still struggling with it while others faceroll it. It's hard to risk people getting totally stuck and not being able to progress the story and the system for flashpoints - which is what we are getting the most these days - doesn't seem to lend itself towards giving the actual story in any other mode then storymode the 1st time you play them.

 

Something between Storymode and Veteran would be great to have as an option for first story runs (and just in general) - but not forced on all. How hard that would be to implement into the current system though I've no idea.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Suzsi

[Suzsi]

That’s not realistic. The game is an MMO not a solo playing RPG.

 

All class and planet stories are already instanced. It's the open world side quests that aren't, pretty sure thats what the poster meant. Systems already there, minus the ability to toggle difficulty. Theres only a few spots where these have you do an objective or 2 in the open world areas.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Suzsi

[Hadsil]

That’s not realistic. The game is an MMO not a solo playing RPG.

 

When you go through the green screen into a cave or building that's your own little world of playtime. That's your instance of Class or Planet story. There are no other players involved. That's what can be theoretically scaled in preferences. They already do that with Story flashpoints, most of them anyway.

[TrixxieTriss]

When you go through the green screen into a cave or building that's your own little world of playtime. That's your instance of Class or Planet story. There are no other players involved. That's what can be theoretically scaled in preferences. They already do that with Story flashpoints, most of them anyway.

 

That’s different. I thought your were recommending the whole game be like that.

 

The issue with retroactive doing that in vanilla is it would be a big job to give every little instance 3 difficulty levels. We also know from experience that when Bioware start messing around with old content code they cause a multitude of bugs in the game. They honestly ALWAYS add bugs. It’s a forgone conclusion that they would break parts of the game which would require them to do more work. And there are already way to many bugs as it is. We don’t need more.

 

The best solution for a game this old is to move forward with new content in a way that tries to cater to people who want a challenge, but also has mechanisms in place for people who need help. The bot droid or 2nd companion activation would be the most obvious and probably easiest to implement as this is already in the game. That way Bioware isn’t tied to making every bit of content solo instances and we can have new open world content like the Ossus and Onderon type expansions,

Edited May 4, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Unfortunately some of us play that 9yr old content daily. Currently have 3+ toons in class stories, a few in SoR, a few in KotFE etc.

 

It's hard because I wouldn't hate a bit of a challenge doing that stuff, but I've friends who are happy to faceroll it just to get to the next cutscene etc. For them I usually advocate for leaving it be.

 

I find KotFE veteran is a little tooo hard, especially some parts for first runs on lower level, under geared toons. Big gap between normal and veteran in difficulty. And replaying flashpoints on veteran for me looses its interest because you don't get the story with it (and generally need a group).

 

Some of the heroics feel nicely balanced, where you have to pay attention and use your skills or end up flattened, but not so hard as to get stuck.

 

It's pretty hard though to find that balance though I think when everyones on such different skill levels. SoV has kinda prooved that. Some are still struggling with it while others faceroll it. It's hard to risk people getting totally stuck and not being able to progress the story and the system for flashpoints - which is what we are getting the most these days - doesn't seem to lend itself towards giving the actual story in any other mode then storymode the 1st time you play them.

 

Something between Storymode and Veteran would be great to have as an option for first story runs (and just in general) - but not forced on all. How hard that would be to implement into the current system though I've no idea.

 

You do know they would break the game with bugs if they start messing around with vanilla in the way you guys are suggesting?

 

Also Bioware did something when they last rescaled veteran and master mode kotet/kofte chapters because they are much harder than they use to be.

 

I use to mostly run my Alts through master mode chapters because the story ones were too easy for me. But since the changes, I’ve struggled to even do veteran mode and story is easier than ever. A large percentage of the veteran ones are actually harder than the old master mode ones use to be.

 

That is my concern when Bioware rescale anything on mass. Most of the time they don’t look at each individual situation, they apply a setting across the board to the whole thing and don’t realise it makes some parts unplayable. A prime example were the Walker chapters that has taken them 2 years to bring back to a reasonable amount of playability (although some is still too stonk for story).

 

As for SOV, this is a great example of how adding an optional second companion or combat droid would have allowed everyone to play to their own skill levels.

[Suzsi]

You do know they would break the game with bugs if they start messing around with vanilla in the way you guys are suggesting?

 

Also Bioware did something when they last rescaled veteran and master mode kotet/kofte chapters because they are much harder than they use to be.

 

I use to mostly run my Alts through master mode chapters because the story ones were too easy for me. But since the changes, I’ve struggled to even do veteran mode and story is easier than ever. A large percentage of the veteran ones are actually harder than the old master mode ones use to be.

 

That is my concern when Bioware rescale anything on mass. Most of the time they don’t look at each individual situation, they apply a setting across the board to the whole thing and don’t realise it makes some parts unplayable. A prime example were the Walker chapters that has taken them 2 years to bring back to a reasonable amount of playability (although some is still too stonk for story).

 

As for SOV, this is a great example of how adding an optional second companion or combat droid would have allowed everyone to play to their own skill levels.

 

Hrmmm? All I was suggesting was a update to how flashpoints work, including a level between SM and Veteran that they can also be difficulty toggled the 1st time you play them (during the story - rather then having to do the story easy everytime). That's not vanilla, thats current since we get FPs more then anything else now.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hrmmm? All I was suggesting was a update to how flashpoints work, including a level between SM and Veteran that they can also be difficulty toggled the 1st time you play them (during the story - rather then having to do the story easy everytime). That's not vanilla, thats current since we get FPs more then anything else now.

 

Sorry the conversation was bouncing around. I see where you’re coming from now. Yeah that might be a good solution too depending on if the flash point is being balanced for a trinity group at veteran or solo experience.