Storyline and Open-World Content Difficulty or lack of...

[Rion_Starkiller]

Then stop spreading rumours as facts

 

Wait what? didn't you just say it DOESN'T with no proof but anecdote?

[Tofu_Shark]

Then stop spreading rumours as facts

Not my fault you interpreted my post as meaning I had checked it recently when I said it was "a while ago." I never stated it was a definitive fact that was verified recently.

[TrixxieTriss]

Wait what? didn't you just say it DOESN'T with no proof but anecdote?

 

LOL, I was waiting for that. And you are correct, I don’t have proof either because it’s not obtainable as I don’t have a tardis to time travel in. What I can say is it 100% doesn’t work now because I’ve a WAM on each of my characters and I tested it tonight to confirm what I already new to be true, that it doesn’t work outside of a double XP event.

Edited April 24, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ElZaguero]

LOL, I was waiting for that. And you are correct, I don’t have proof either because it’s not obtainable as I don’t have a tardis to time travel in. What I can say is it 100% doesn’t work now because I’ve a WAM on each of my characters and I tested it tonight to confirm what I already new to be true, that it doesn’t work outside of a double XP event.

 

Hey, Trixx

 

Want to borrow my DeLorean? (holds out keys)

[dawsonsage]

If I may be honest, I am a casual, always have been. I play mainly for the story but ... I do feel it is too easy. Coming back for the second time a month ago after years away from the game when it was MUCH more difficult, I feel leveling has gotten way too easy. I would judge that about halfway between the way it was 8 years ago when I stopped playing regularly and the way it is now would be the sweet spot. The problem with making it a faceroll up to level 75 is that people don't learn to play their class by the time they are ready for end game content. Like everything in life, learning to play your class effectively take practice and if you can just zoom to level 75 with little to no effort, you never learn what the most effective rotations are.

[DarkestMicheal]

LOL, I was waiting for that. And you are correct, I don’t have proof either because it’s not obtainable as I don’t have a tardis to time travel in. What I can say is it 100% doesn’t work now because I’ve a WAM on each of my characters and I tested it tonight to confirm what I already new to be true, that it doesn’t work outside of a double XP event.

 

The WAM never worked outside of double xp, used it on a inq I had, was trying to get her to 'Darth' as low a level as possible, just to see if I could. So I know for definate it didn't work outside of double xp. No proof, but I know what I know Incidentally, I hit a wall when I got to quesh, as you have to be a certain level go to quesh. Not sure if we didn't have flagship transport, or I just didn't think of it, but i eventually went back to other mission to level up. Was going to try it again, but seemed pointless as the xp had increased in the meantime.

[Ardrossan]

That has always been the rumour, but I tested it back when and it’s not true.

 

The WAM never worked outside of double xp, used it on a inq I had, was trying to get her to 'Darth' as low a level as possible, just to see if I could. So I know for definate it didn't work outside of double xp.

 

The WAM works and always has worked outside of 2XP. I use it on every new character I make for at least the first 20 levels. It works. But it may NOT work as effectively for subbed characters who have bought xp perks or are wearing DvL equipment. I haven't tested it on that because that would be counter productive. it works fine if you're pref. It offers about a 50% downgrade to all xp, including both missions and mobs, NOT including conquest points or RXP. As subs receive an inherent xp boost, the decrease you get may not be as good as what a pref gets, but it should be noticeable.

 

I see people asking for a xp decrease on this forum like once a week and it is very irritating to see players posting misinformation about the WAM. We have had an xp debuff for something like 4 years. If it doesn't work for you, that is YOUR experience, your bug. It works perfectly fine for other players, it's one of the few things BW hasn't screwed up in this game.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Ardrossan

[TrixxieTriss]

The WAM works and always has worked outside of 2XP. I use it on every new character I make for at least the first 20 levels. It works. But it may NOT work as effectively for subbed characters who have bought xp perks or are wearing DvL equipment. I haven't tested it on that because that would be counter productive. it works fine if you're pref. It offers about a 50% downgrade to all xp, including both missions and mobs, NOT including conquest points or RXP. As subs receive an inherent xp boost, the decrease you get may not be as good as what a pref gets, but it should be noticeable.

 

I see people asking for a xp decrease on this forum like once a week and it is very irritating to see players posting misinformation about the WAM. We have had an xp debuff for something like 4 years. If it doesn't work for you, that is YOUR experience, your bug. It works perfectly fine for other players, it's one of the few things BW hasn't screwed up in this game.

 

Seeing as you’re lvling up some Alts. Would you care to post a vid to compare using the WAM and not using it so we can see what you are saying.

[Hadsil]

If I may be honest, I am a casual, always have been. I play mainly for the story but ... I do feel it is too easy. Coming back for the second time a month ago after years away from the game when it was MUCH more difficult, I feel leveling has gotten way too easy. I would judge that about halfway between the way it was 8 years ago when I stopped playing regularly and the way it is now would be the sweet spot. The problem with making it a faceroll up to level 75 is that people don't learn to play their class by the time they are ready for end game content. Like everything in life, learning to play your class effectively take practice and if you can just zoom to level 75 with little to no effort, you never learn what the most effective rotations are.

 

Depends what it means to learn your class. Playing the game I've learned particular strategies based on how powers work. I can now arrange them in order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = for ease of use. 1 can set up 2. 4 works better when 3 is used right before it, etc. I'm aware of defenses and interrupts and use them. It's enough to get through the stories and enjoy the game. I don't do PvP. I don't care about competitions. I'll join a guild if asked and don't mind helping them by association when I complete personal conquests playing the game, but I don't actively pursue taking control of a planet.

 

Playing the game there's the occasional loss, but it's less frequent now because I know what I'm doing more. I learned the lesson of MOVE when the area around me starts to glow in Boss fights. The first time I fought Vaylin in the mindscape was a frustrating slog of continuous death. Now it's a relatively easy fight for me because I know the strategy to defeat her.

 

The infamous Voss Walker quest was made easier on purpose. There is a difference between being hard and being almost impossible. It's not fun to do everything right but still dying off every time you play no matter what you do. The only saving grace of the original Walker difficulty was the enemies you did kill not respawning when you did. After your third, fourth, fifth death you could just walk to the Boss taking pot shots at the few remaining enemies. The Boss fight was its own problem of too many skytrooper add ons. You were taking way too much damage in proportion to what you gave. The number of enemies before the Boss is the same, so they probably lowered the damage. In the Boss fight they lowered the number of skytroopers add ons. You still need to get rid of them, but you're not being pounded with unavoidable damage while doing so. The Boss is still tough, and MOVE out of the red light. The quest is still a challenge, but now it's a fun challenge.

[Tofu_Shark]

You're one of the few that actually put effort into learning to play the game then. We see that your journey from newbie to veteran is unfortunately the exception, not the rule. Maybe if others were compelled to learn the game, that would change.

 

The WAM works and always has worked outside of 2XP. I use it on every new character I make for at least the first 20 levels. It works. But it may NOT work as effectively for subbed characters who have bought xp perks or are wearing DvL equipment. I haven't tested it on that because that would be counter productive. it works fine if you're pref. It offers about a 50% downgrade to all xp, including both missions and mobs, NOT including conquest points or RXP. As subs receive an inherent xp boost, the decrease you get may not be as good as what a pref gets, but it should be noticeable.

 

I see people asking for a xp decrease on this forum like once a week and it is very irritating to see players posting misinformation about the WAM. We have had an xp debuff for something like 4 years. If it doesn't work for you, that is YOUR experience, your bug. It works perfectly fine for other players, it's one of the few things BW hasn't screwed up in this game.

Thank you for confirming it still works.

[robertthebard]

You're one of the few that actually put effort into learning to play the game then. We see that your journey from newbie to veteran is unfortunately the exception, not the rule. Maybe if others were compelled to learn the game, that would change.

 

In my experience, a lot of players follow the same pattern. The issue becomes "They don't learn to play the way I expect them to play". I'd love it if this were unique to here, but unfortunately it's not. In GW 2 there was a thread all about how the devs needed to revamp the entirety of the Tutorial to run all the way to cap, because, in their words "Nobody dodges". I'd be inclined to think it was a one off coincidence, but the same thread popped up in ESO, with the same claim.

 

Thank you for confirming it still works.

[Ardrossan]

Seeing as you’re lvling up some Alts. Would you care to post a vid to compare using the WAM and not using it so we can see what you are saying.

 

This is my last day before the referral runs out, so probably not tbh. At best perhaps I could put it on the reddit page or steam.

 

What I would suggest is to make a character and keep the WAM on the entire time. Do quests and sidequests as normally, see how fast you level. On the starter planets, doing all quests and sidequests [except heroics], I usually leave at lvl 11-12. Recently - in December 2020 - I leveled a BH doing only the main missions, and got to fleet at lvl 8. I usually don't keep it on past lvl 20 because at higher levels it becomes more difficult to keep up, and I end up reaching Corellia at lvl 45. However, I usually don't do pvp [since the horrible changes to it] or GSF or FPs either. I can confirm that it DOES work for FPs and space missions though.

 

Do not buy xp perks, use xp boosts or wear xp boosting equipment. Given what that other guy was saying about it not working for his Sith character, it may be that the WAM does not work for subs - although I doubt it, because I've talked to subbed guildies who also use it. Or it may be something to do with rested xp being calculated in when 2xp is not in effect.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Ardrossan

[TrixxieTriss]

This is my last day before the referral runs out, so probably not tbh. At best perhaps I could put it on the reddit page or steam.

 

What I would suggest is to make a character and keep the WAM on the entire time. Do quests and sidequests as normally, see how fast you level. On the starter planets, doing all quests and sidequests [except heroics], I usually leave at lvl 11-12. Recently - in December 2020 - I leveled a BH doing only the main missions, and got to fleet at lvl 8. I usually don't keep it on past lvl 20 because at higher levels it becomes more difficult to keep up, and I end up reaching Corellia at lvl 45. However, I usually don't do pvp [since the horrible changes to it] or GSF or FPs either. I can confirm that it DOES work for FPs and space missions though.

 

Do not buy xp perks, use xp boosts or wear xp boosting equipment. Given what that other guy was saying about it not working for his Sith character, it may be that the WAM does not work for subs - although I doubt it, because I've talked to subbed guildies who also use it. Or it may be something to do with rested xp being calculated in when 2xp is not in effect.

 

I literally just took my lvl 73 Jugg to lvl 75 this week. I had a WAM on her still and I tested doing low level heroics and missions. I tracked the yellow chat window that showed what XP I received. I then took off the WAM the next day and did the exact same heroics and missions and there was zero difference.

If I had known this discussion was going to require some proof of what happens with the WAM, I would have taken screen shots. Alas, the alt is now lvl 75 and it’s not possible to show you what I experienced.

From my perspective, the WAM doesn’t work unless you are in double XP. And even when double XP is on, it doesn’t work for XP you get from conquest achievements. You will see this in a few weeks when double XP is back on.

Edited April 27, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Fdzzaigl]

I do agree that the Vanilla story content is too easy to the point where it takes away from the story.

 

I haven't reached any of the new content yet as I'm progressively going through the vanilla stories since I came back, but an option to increase the difficulty like you have in later content for the vanilla stories would be an awesome addition.

 

For me personally I would be happy if every miniboss in the storyline was at least an elite mob and every major bad was at least a champion level mob.

Right now there are far too many dudes who tell you they will kill you but turn out to be a regular "strong" mob or in some cases even a weak one.

[DarkTergon]

/snip

 

If you don't log out, you can ride the cookies for a couple of extra days, used to be a month or so, but they've changed recently, and it seems to need to relog every week or so now.

 

 

I literally just took my lvl 73 Jugg to lvl 75 this week. I had a WAM on her still and I tested doing low level heroics and missions. I tracked the yellow chat window that showed what XP I received. I then took off the WAM the next day and did the exact same heroics and missions and there was zero difference.

If I had known this discussion was going to require some proof of what happens with the WAM, I would have taken screen shots. Alas, the alt is now lvl 75 and it’s not possible to show you what I experienced.

From my perspective, the WAM doesn’t work unless you are in double XP. And even when double XP is on, it doesn’t work for XP you get from conquest achievements. You will see this in a few weeks when double XP is back on.

 

assuming the wam works by reducing all xp , if it works out side of double xp, pick up a few missions, note their xp, the close them. Use the wam, and check again. If the wam makes a different, you'll see a reduced amount of xp.

Edited April 27, 2021 by DarkTergon

[Tofu_Shark]

In my experience, a lot of players follow the same pattern. The issue becomes "They don't learn to play the way I expect them to play". I'd love it if this were unique to here, but unfortunately it's not. In GW 2 there was a thread all about how the devs needed to revamp the entirety of the Tutorial to run all the way to cap, because, in their words "Nobody dodges". I'd be inclined to think it was a one off coincidence, but the same thread popped up in ESO, with the same claim.

No, it's "they don't learn to play the game the way the game and devs expect them to play." In real life, if one doesn't follow the rules of a game, no one will want to play with them, because they ruin everyone else's fun that plays by the rules. Even if someone doesn't play by the official rules and they come up with their own mode of play, their version still has rules or it's just chaos.

 

In regards to video games, this would fall under modding. MMOs don't allow modding in this way. In most cases of games, you have to be able to mod the game or find a group of like-minded players. The best examples of modding are FPSs: Counterstrike was originally a mod for Half-Life as was Team Fortress. Another famous example is Defense of the Ancients, which began as a mod for Warcraft III, created the genre of MOBAs as we know it, and lead to the development of League of Legends: the two most prolific games in the genre.

[robertthebard]

No, it's "they don't learn to play the game the way the game and devs expect them to play." In real life, if one doesn't follow the rules of a game, no one will want to play with them, because they ruin everyone else's fun that plays by the rules. Even if someone doesn't play by the official rules and they come up with their own mode of play, their version still has rules or it's just chaos.

 

Follow who's rules of the game? If they're not botting, or buying credits, or harassing other players, they are following the rules, just not the rules you want, which means that you should have said "Yes", instead of "No" to what I posted.

 

In regards to video games, this would fall under modding. MMOs don't allow modding in this way. In most cases of games, you have to be able to mod the game or find a group of like-minded players. The best examples of modding are FPSs: Counterstrike was originally a mod for Half-Life as was Team Fortress. Another famous example is Defense of the Ancients, which began as a mod for Warcraft III, created the genre of MOBAs as we know it, and lead to the development of League of Legends: the two most prolific games in the genre.

 

I'm not sure what you're going on about here?

[Hadsil]

You got what you want in Spirit of Vengeance. It's always hard. It cannot be completed by those who play Story and only have Story gear so our game and fun ends there. Congratulations.

[TrixxieTriss]

You got what you want in Spirit of Vengeance. It's always hard. It cannot be completed by those who play Story and only have Story gear so our game and fun ends there. Congratulations.

 

It’s been Nerfed already. Have you tried it since the patch. It’s super easy now

[Hadsil]

It’s been Nerfed already. Have you tried it since the patch. It’s super easy now

 

Yes I have, and no it's not.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yes I have, and no it's not.

 

Well it is now too easy for myself and many others who actually liked how it was.

 

Bioware need to stop dumbing down the game for the lowest skilled players or they will keep driving other players away.

 

In saying that, I’m not suggesting there shouldn’t be a mechanism to allow lower skilled players a way to complete story content. There 100% should be.

 

One suggestion is they add in a healing/tank droid like they did for the Revan flash points, but have it as an “option” and not the default setting.

 

Or another possibility is they allow you to take two companions along if you want. Personally, I think two comps is a better option because then you can pick and choose who you want and it works for well RP immersion.

[Suzsi]

Yes I have, and no it's not.

 

I'd recommend practising on some heroics (not a diss, just a recommendation).

I actuallly died playing with heroics yesterday because I wasn't paying enough attention / using my abilities properly.

 

They're a good way to learn and pretty forgiving since you can rezz on the spot.

 

Focus on learning to use crowd control ( and not breaking it early, like I did). Your companion will also automatically use crowd control skills.

Damage mitigation buffs. All charcaters have these.

Doing max damage ( AoE or Single target where needed). And in some cases interrupts on the enemies strongest skill.

Using stims (buffs and heals) a little extra help, med droids sell them

And which mobs to target first - healers if there is one, silver elites or snipers if there isn't (usually do the most damage), gold elites last.

Avoiding damage rings on the ground.

 

It takes a little time and patience but is rewarding once you crack it. You get to take it with you into other games and never really loose it once you have it.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Suzsi

[Tofu_Shark]

Yes, healers should be prioritized, but in the absence of healers it's:

1. Weak
   
2. Standard
   
3. Strong
   
4. Elite
   
5. Champion
   

 

Too many DPS don't know this priority and just target the strongest enemy. That's the tank's job! The healer then gets targeted by the standards and weaks until the tank gets around to giving them a whack (or if this is vet and there is no healer in the group, the tank themselves is targeted)! This essentially forces the tank to play the role of DPS except in boss fights. It's a sure way to anger a tank.

 

I agree with everything else you've said.

 

Follow who's rules of the game? If they're not botting, or buying credits, or harassing other players, they are following the rules, just not the rules you want, which means that you should have said "Yes", instead of "No" to what I posted.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you're going on about here?

I think it's pretty clear by my response that I don't exactly agree with what you said.

 

What I'm saying is you can't just play in a way unintended in a multiplayer game unless the game is moddable in a way that fundamentally alters gameplay or you have a group of people that have agreed to play with you in the same way you want to.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Tofu_Shark

[robertthebard]

Yes, healers should be prioritized, but in the absence of healers it's:

1. Weak
   
2. Standard
   
3. Strong
   
4. Elite
   
5. Champion
   

 

Too many DPS don't know this priority and just target the strongest enemy. That's the tank's job! The healer then gets targeted by the standards and weaks until the tank gets around to giving them a whack (or if this is vet and there is no healer in the group, the tank themselves is targeted)! This essentially forces the tank to play the role of DPS except in boss fights. It's a sure way to anger a tank.

 

I agree with everything else you've said.

 

 

I think it's pretty clear by my response that I don't exactly agree with what you said.

 

What I'm saying is you can't just play in a way unintended in a multiplayer game unless the game is moddable in a way that fundamentally alters gameplay or you have a group of people that have agreed to play with you in the same way you want to.

 

They can. My progression raiding group didn't invite unknown players, if we could help it. That was our method of controlling who's in group, and how smoothly it's going to run. If one's running random pugs, one should expect random results. There are some people that are going to be running a FP specifically for the story, and it may not have a Story Mode version for them to run. They're not going to be the best possible players you could get, but depending on the content, that may not be a big deal, for really skilled players. After all, a lot of us can solo most of the FPs, or could, and so having an under skilled player won't be a big deal.

 

Yeah, if it's possible, it's better to find like minded players. In a pug, I won't be fussing about the space bar, even when I'm hitting it like it owes me money. In an organized group, I expect that the "rules" would be laid out before we pull the first mobs, and that everyone is adhering to that playstyle. If the expectations have been laid out in advance, and someone's not adhering to that, they can be kicked, and in some cases replaced with a comp. It's something I've done, where possible. Not following what a group's plan is, is not a violation of any game rules, just the conditions set out for that group.

[Tofu_Shark]

They can. My progression raiding group didn't invite unknown players, if we could help it. That was our method of controlling who's in group, and how smoothly it's going to run. If one's running random pugs, one should expect random results. There are some people that are going to be running a FP specifically for the story, and it may not have a Story Mode version for them to run. They're not going to be the best possible players you could get, but depending on the content, that may not be a big deal, for really skilled players. After all, a lot of us can solo most of the FPs, or could, and so having an under skilled player won't be a big deal.

 

Yeah, if it's possible, it's better to find like minded players. In a pug, I won't be fussing about the space bar, even when I'm hitting it like it owes me money. In an organized group, I expect that the "rules" would be laid out before we pull the first mobs, and that everyone is adhering to that playstyle. If the expectations have been laid out in advance, and someone's not adhering to that, they can be kicked, and in some cases replaced with a comp. It's something I've done, where possible. Not following what a group's plan is, is not a violation of any game rules, just the conditions set out for that group.

They can try to, but many people will not be receptive towards them. The best ones though are the ones that are offered advice and they spit in the face of the other person. How dare they offer help at improving!

 

I guess you never played pretend as a child. Someone would always wind up saying, "You can't do that." Guess what happened if the group couldn't reach an agreement on what could and couldn't be done or someone didn't play along the same way: People didn't want to play with that person.